Where is HDR in iOS4.1?

Posted by: John Rougeux

Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 09:49 AM

They touted it, yet I can't seem to find it.

Anyone know?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 09:53 AM

nm, Tuaw had the answer:
If you have an iPhone 3G or 3GS, you'll have to buy an app to get HDR photos, because Apple HDR requires an iPhone 4.

bummer
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 01:09 PM

Speaking of which if it is taking 3 photos, wouldn't this fill up your space pretty quick?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 01:44 PM

not sure how big the iPhone 4 images are, but the 3Gs are 1.4MB, so it would take a LOT to fill up my 32GB iPhone.

Besides, you would eventually delete those that you don't want or transfer them to your computer.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 02:19 PM

I used it 2 days ago. It will take a regular shot and then it pushes/ pulls the exposure to make 3 shots. It doesn't take 3 separate shots.
It works ok... opens up the shadows some and pulls down the highlights. Just a wee bit, but enough to make a difference. You can set prefs to keep only the HDR or both.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 02:28 PM

I'm still on the fence about HDR. If done properly, they look good. But I have seen a lot out there that look like crap.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 02:55 PM

The iPhone app doesn't alter color... just marries the exposures.. as far as I can tell so far.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 03:35 PM

I swear it was supposed to work on more than just the iPhone 4. I gotta watch that keynote again.
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 03:58 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
I used it 2 days ago. It will take a regular shot and then it pushes/ pulls the exposure to make 3 shots. It doesn't take 3 separate shots.
It works ok... opens up the shadows some and pulls down the highlights. Just a wee bit, but enough to make a difference. You can set prefs to keep only the HDR or both.


Thats interesting
Still it has to pull exposures and it claims that it saves a before and sorta an after shot so you can compare. Anyway it has to eat up some space?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Still it has to pull exposures and it claims that it saves a before and sorta an after shot so you can compare. Anyway it has to eat up some space?
They are not saving a copy, but like Version Cue in the Adobe Creative Suite it saves the info on what changes to make in small text file, or for this maybe just text embedded in the photo which would add no space. Not sure how much a text file takes up on the phone but on a computer it's anywhere from .5K to 4K.

A photo is 1400K. If the text file is 4K, It would take 350 photos to "eat up" the space one photo takes. If the versions are saved in a text file, all depending on the size of the allocation blocks, .5 or 4K, out of 3000 photos you would probably get 1 to 8 less. The space used is not a factor.
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 05:02 PM

Thanks

All I know is that it will save a version of the original photo so you can compare - if you are saying that the compared version is only 4 or 6K whatever how you can make a comparison.

Hey whatever
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 06:02 PM

This is how Aperture and Capture One and other image capture programs work. I can make as many different versions from 1 photo as I like... but there is only 1 honking big file. The rest is small text files that are the "interpretation" for the other versions.

When I make adjustments to a RAW file... it doesn't actually do anything to the RAW file. It "applies" the adjustments as a side car. The adjustments are just a set of instructions for the program on how to now "see" the Raw.
It's like a set of glasses. You can have 20 pairs of glasses to see the world and they all fit in a little box. As opposed to there actually being 20 different worlds.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 06:05 PM

Edit: I was going to say something about Reboots comment but I may be wrong so I'll just shut up now.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/10/10 06:29 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
if you are saying that the compared version is only 4 or 6K whatever how you can make a comparison.
Because I know what I'm talking about and I do this stuff for a living maybe? You had a theory that it was saving three photos, I tried to explain how it wasn't, but you can't accept it. You're so thick headed. NG4 explained the same thing in another way, hope you -----> Get it now.
wink grin
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 05:05 AM

Quote:
They are not saving a copy, but like Version Cue in the Adobe Creative Suite it saves the info on what changes to make in small text file


Maybe I'm misunderstanding, but there certainly appears to be two actual, separate images saved -- at least, this is the listing from Image Capture when I look at my iPhone:



The top hilighted file is the original, second is the HDRI (not that much of a difference in this case ;-)

Are you saying it's fibbing and there's really only the one file and a second, smaller text only file?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 05:29 AM

wow! F/2.4?? On a phone??
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 07:08 AM

Apparently so =)
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 08:05 AM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Are you saying it's fibbing and there's really only the one file and a second, smaller text only file?
That's the way Aperture, Version Cue, etc do it. I'd be surprised if they didn't use the same principle for the iPhone.

To test the theory for sure, take a bunch of photos, let it generate 2 HDRs for each, then go to General/Settings/About and see how much disk space is left. Then go to your pics and delete all the HDR files but keep the originals and see if the disk space changes.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 09:53 AM

Or, alternatively, you could just copy the files over to your Mac and see what the Finder thinks the file sizes are ;-)



I would assume if that second file is really just a 4k text file and not a 2.1MB jpg file it would say so, no? If the Finder thinks it takes up 2.1MB space then it's kind of moot if it's actually only 4k since the Finder is what's going to determine how full your disk is in any practical sense ...

Or am I still missing something? =)
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 11:41 AM

If I remember correctly Steve said point blank in the keynote that it does save at lease 2 so you can compare. I thought it was 3 images but that gets merged into 1.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 12:41 PM

I'm inclined to think there are 2 actual copies. But there is not easy way to tell. If I ask Aperture to output the 3 different versions.. then of course it outputs hi res versions and they are all comparable in size. Prior to that 2 are text files.
Posted by: FSM

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/11/10 08:20 PM

yeah, on my iPhone 4 i can see two separate images that are both over 1 MB (HDR 2 MB). and, on my photos i think the HDR is making a good difference (at least inside so far). for example, the regular version of this photo was quite dark where the chairs are located and the HDR version brings that out -- this is a lab i taught in today:
Posted by: trey

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/18/10 02:58 PM

It doesn't do the HDR using sidecar data. It actually processes the photo right there in the camera and makes a new file. If you don't have it set to delete the "source" file, it keeps two full size files. So yeah, it would double the amount of space you're using if you don't delete the dupes.

Here's an HDR of the girl cat at my work:



It tends to make the images relatively flat, but it does a decent job in certain situations. I've been really annoyed a few times when I left it on by accident and had what could have been a decent little pic ruined by the effect.
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/18/10 03:24 PM

Nice shot of the cat Trey.

So you can turn it off - would maybe a fast user switch like a hard button be more useful?
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/18/10 05:09 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Nice shot of the cat Trey.

So you can turn it off - would maybe a fast user switch like a hard button be more useful?


It is rather easy just the way Apple has it.



A -- touch to turn flash off or on
B -- touch to turn HDR off or on
C -- touch to turn movie off or on

That is the screen I am looking at to take a picture [ smile]


.
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 09/18/10 05:15 PM

Cool

I don't have one, hence the question. Plus the gest of the thread seemed like you did not have much of a choice or difficult to turn on or off.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/03/10 02:04 PM

I'm not sure that calling this feature HDR is clear.

It uses HDR methodology (taking 3 exposures of an image to create a single image), but typically people expect a color-rich image when you say HDR. The iPhone's HDR ability simply adjusts the exposure to make highlights and shadows look better.

Technically they're correct, but I think they should just call it something like "photo fix" or similar...

This is what most people think of when you say HDR photo:

Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/03/10 02:15 PM

Here's a quick example of the iPhone HDR use:

The image below is the regular photo. As you can see, the wood table is dark, the red stripes on the right side of the can are barely visible, etc.

REGULAR.jpg

Now here is the HDR version of the photo. You can see the stripes, the wood is lighter, you can see the reflection of the mouse on the can of soda, and you can barely see the Apple logo on the mouse. The image is lightened up overall. Quite frankly, I could do better adjustments using iPhoto's rather limited editing tools, let alone Photoshop.

HDR.JPG

For the average user, it's probably a really useful feature, but for me, it's a let-down.
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/03/10 02:51 PM

Fantastic comparisons JD - Thanks.

I like it because it helps us point and shoot people, that have little PS skills.

Larger question for me would be.
If I take a shot with HDR can I still edit it in PS, meaning is the image already out of gamut ranges?
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/03/10 05:09 PM

Gotta agree -- not sure exactly how high expectations should be with an "HDR" feature that doesn't offer any settings whatsoever. This should help the average Joe Photographer but I can't see expecting something this basic producing the same results as a more professional eye tweaking exposures with more flexible software ...

I'd think you'd have not very many problems fooling-around with the HDR image in Photoshop -- my understanding is that the issue is the limited exposure capabilities of the chip inside a camera more than Photoshop's gamut =)
Posted by: carp

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/03/10 05:21 PM

I dunno

Hey you guys have way more PS experience than I have BIG Time.
I do have PS and do dabble with it, I have since move to iPhoto, because the minimum that it has in editing is all I need.

Long before i guess in PS 3.0, I used PS, very heavy - keep in mind there was nothing else. I mean MS and Apple had no real, photo editing apps that were pre-installed that was worth a dang. <-- In fact MS still does not have a editor that is worth a dang.

Anyway
I welcome HDR - I don't wanna open PS.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/03/10 07:11 PM

I am in agreement. it is technically an HDR photo.. but it is only to help the exposure, not to create a fantastic, arty photo.

Here's 2 HDRs I did in Peru 2 years ago.

http://homepage.mac.com/nucleusg4/.Pictures/Church.jpg

http://homepage.mac.com/nucleusg4/.Pictures/MP_Panorama1.jpg
Not as punchy as Gizs samples... but I wasn't trying to push it that hard.

It would be ridiculous though to expect a camera to do this kind of work. Unless you have already set up presets, it takes quite a while to tweak a photo to that degree.

Oh, and my truck. I used HDR to help with the highlight and shadow... no color alterations.
http://homepage.mac.com/nucleusg4/.Pictures/TruckLR.jpg

Here's the truck original that I pushed and pulled 2 stops from....

]http://homepage.mac.com/nucleusg4/.Pictures/TruckOriginal.jpg
Posted by: zwei

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/04/10 07:14 AM

Apple clearly still wants the photos to look "normal" even though they have been enhanced. I love HDR, but it's not an effect you want to use in every photo.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/04/10 08:22 AM

That's what I was saying...

Quote:
but it is only to help the exposure, not to create a fantastic, arty photo.
Posted by: trey

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/05/10 05:03 AM

Quote:
This is what most people think of when you say HDR photo:


Well, that's about like saying that a soggy McDonald's hamburger is what most people think of when they think of a hamburger: probably true that that's what people think of, but it's a sloppy offering, and not really a good example of HDR photography. What you're looking at there is out-of-control tone mapping.

I think everyone who downloads Photomatix starts off making crap like this. I know I did a few years ago. But a well-done HDR photo won't leave one feeling as if they've just been secretly dosed with LSD.
Posted by: FSM

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/06/10 08:44 PM

i bought a cheap little app called, "Pro HDR."

it takes about 10 seconds to generate a photo, but it first analyzes the scene and then takes a shot and immediately takes a second photo. then, it aligns the 2 photos and joins them together and takes you to a screen where you can edit the details (e.g., contrast, saturation, brightness, warmth, and tint). it's no Photomatrix, but i think it allows for some improvement on the default iPhone HDR photos.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/06/10 08:56 PM

Out of control tone mapping? I think most people who do that are trying for that effect..which is quite often pleasing. Not everything has to be exactly like it was in reality.
For instance, the one giz posted.. pushed a little too far for me... but still very effective.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/07/10 07:03 AM

Yeah, I was more responding to giz …you just got the quick reply treatment wink

I love artsy HDR, but not for my whole photo album
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/11/10 01:47 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
I am in agreement. it is technically an HDR photo.. but it is only to help the exposure, not to create a fantastic, arty photo.


Well here's where I start to get pissy wink

A jpeg file cannot be an HDR photo, because JPEGs just don't contain enough data.

I can use an actual HDR photograph to light my 3D scenes very accurately. I cannot do so with a JPEG. If all the iPhone is doing is mapping tones from different exposures, big deal. I want it to save me an actual radiance .HDR file. Then I'd be impressed.

And for craps sakes, it only takes 3 pictures? What's the use, it should take 5-7 minimum.

I suppose I'm just being too technical, but when someone says HDR to me, I think luminance data.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/12/10 05:24 AM

Well.. here you go.. you can now get even more pissed. Take a pic of a moving object with your iPhone 4 and you will see that it doesn't take 3 separate jpegs... just 1 and pushes/pulls the exposure. That's why the iP4s HDRs are so crappy...usually.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/12/10 06:11 AM

I'm pretty sure it takes multiple photos …we got some pics the other day of our friends on a roller coaster and it looked like half their face was missing.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Where is HDR in iOS4.1? - 10/12/10 12:28 PM

Yep...your right. Hmmm...
I spun around and it took 3 and tried to marry them... ghosting resulted.