GPS apps

Posted by: John Rougeux

GPS apps - 08/06/10 10:04 AM

Does anyone know if GPS apps such as Navigon, TomTom, or any others use 3G/internet?

Specifically, Navigon.

I'm interested in purchasing it after seeing it on my brother's iphone but am afraid that it might use internet to provide information. I'm on the 200MB/month deal

So does it use just satellites/no internet or combo?

this would be on my 3Gs phone...which I'm not even sure if it comes with a GPS chip in it.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: GPS apps - 08/06/10 03:02 PM

Not being an iPhone (or any smart phone) user, I wouldn't know. I usually just look out the window to see where I am.

wink
Posted by: polymerase

Re: GPS apps - 08/06/10 04:07 PM

the ten second review: tomtom does not use the internet except for the initial download. Pretty sure none of them use the internet extensively. When they are running the have at least 12 satellites to chat with.

Except for being completely different then the 7 GPSRs (my one fetish) I used before I kind of like the Tom tom now.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GPS apps - 08/06/10 05:41 PM

Look here for some user input...
http://forums.whirlpool.net.au/forum-replies-archive.cfm/1382795.html
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GPS apps - 08/06/10 05:49 PM

http://www.engadget.com/2010/04/09/iphone-navigation-shootout/

Some other interesting info...
http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=11933302&#11933302
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GPS apps - 08/06/10 08:24 PM

Have you checked out Navigon? I was quite impressed with the interface and all.

I do have a standalone TomTom and I do like it, but I don't like keeping it stored in my car. So an iPhone app would be nice to have.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GPS apps - 08/06/10 08:25 PM

Thanks for the links.

I emailed Navigon to see what they say about data usage.
Posted by: haakon73

Re: GPS apps - 08/07/10 08:50 AM

Your phone doesn't have a true GPS chip in it. It uses cell tower triangulation for GPS positioning. I just got back from a trip with my iPhone 4 and was surprised at how little cell data it used when running my GPS stuff. I didn't use any of the apps you've listed, however. We used Run Keeper and Maps. Seems like we used only a couple of MB of cell data per use. On our iPad, we're on the 250MB/Month plan We used 200 MB over 2 weeks doing light internet browsing each day, mail checking and liberal GPS work while driving and backpacking. It has a true GPS unit but requires an internet connection to download maps for the programs I use (the ones above and one called GPS Drive HD). GPS Drive worked very well but I have nothing to compare it to.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GPS apps - 08/07/10 10:05 AM

The 3Gs doesn't have a true GPS? Darn..ok.

Wow, you used 200MB over 2 weeks? I used 96MB in one month, but then again I am in a lot of wifi areas.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: GPS apps - 08/07/10 12:49 PM

Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
The 3Gs doesn't have a true GPS? Darn..ok.

That's not true. Only the first iPhone used triangulation only. The tom tom car phone also carries a gps chip but that only speeds up aquistion.

Triangulation off of towers will only get you within a city block. A real GPSR chip will get you to nine feet. 920 feet relatively quickly.

My GPS without the TOM Tom adapter will spot me usually within ten feet.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GPS apps - 08/07/10 04:05 PM

Yep.. first gen was triangulation only. Now it has GPS and also uses the triangulation in addition.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: GPS apps - 08/08/10 06:07 AM

Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
The 3Gs doesn't have a true GPS? Darn..ok.
I'll third that, it does have a GPS chip.
Posted by: haakon73

Re: GPS apps - 08/08/10 08:16 AM

We stayed in a place with no WIFI (if you can believe that). But then again, we did call my daughter from a wilderness lake at 10,250 feet. That was just because of the novelty and surprise of having a signal in so remote a spot. Do cell signals bounce off the ionosphere or something? We were actually in a bowl surrounded by high peaks.
Posted by: haakon73

Re: GPS apps-Here we go again 3rd try - 08/08/10 08:38 AM

I posted a question (2 actually) about GPS a while back and John actually informed me that the iphone did not have the ability to find a GPS position without access to a cell tower-ie not a true GPS chip.That is, the "chip" does not access a GPS satellite. What I concluded from the remarks of several people was that the iphone doesn't and the iPad does have a true GPS chip. My own results would seem to bear that out. My iPad always had access to a GPS signal while my iPhone4 required access to a cell tower signal. I think I remember checking Apple's site and concluding that true GPS is only on the iPad. I'd sure like to straighten this out.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: GPS apps - 08/08/10 08:44 AM

The signals can bounce. It is a high frequency, it has a shorter sine wave, so it's more line of site than TV or radio broadcast frequencies which can arc over obstacles, so the ability to bounce a cell signal is not as easy as lower frequencies but it can happen.

If it is a strong signal, maybe there is tower up on one of the peaks. If the signal is always there, I doubt it is from a bounce, those usually come and go.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GPS apps-Here we go again 3rd try - 08/08/10 09:09 AM

Originally Posted By: haakon73
I posted a question (2 actually) about GPS a while back and John actually informed me that the iphone did not have the ability to find a GPS position without access to a cell tower-ie not a true GPS chip.That is, the "chip" does not access a GPS satellite. What I concluded from the remarks of several people was that the iphone doesn't and the iPad does have a true GPS chip. My own results would seem to bear that out. My iPad always had access to a GPS signal while my iPhone4 required access to a cell tower signal. I think I remember checking Apple's site and concluding that true GPS is only on the iPad. I'd sure like to straighten this out.


I think you will find your answers in here .
Posted by: Jim_

Re: GPS apps-Here we go again 3rd try - 08/08/10 09:40 AM

That was interesting, thx. Seems the dedicated chip doesn't do so well on its own.
Posted by: haakon73

Re: GPS apps - 08/08/10 04:01 PM

I'm not attempting to hijack this thread-just thought this was a relevant inquiry. Here's what I have learned. I arranged to have someone from Apple support call me. The GPS hardware in both the iPhone 4 and the iPad WIFI + 3G is identical. It is a true GPS receiver augmented by WIFI+ cell tower assistance. Knowing this, I did the following: With the WIFI and cell data plans off, 3G on and 1-2 bars on the meter, over a total of 12 trials using GPS Lite (no mapping involved), the iPhone connected to the GPS signal in 15 seconds with little variation; the iPad connected in 30 seconds with +/- 12 seconds. Even when the meter said "no service", there was enough signal for the cell towers to augment the connection to GPS. Linking to the GPS frequently caused the meter to switch from "no service" to one bar. Curiously, in my basement with 1 bar I could get the iPad to connect faster than the iPhone at 1minute vs 2 minutes for the latter. Perhaps that reflects an antenna difference. Once, with the "death grip" on the antenna junction resulting in "no service", I gave up after two minutes trying to connect the iPhone to GPS. Various combinations of activating to my home WIFI, Cellular data plan and 3G gave no significant difference in how fast either device connected to GPS. These last results are interesting but I'm tired so I'll quit now.
Posted by: haakon73

Re: GPS apps-Here we go again 3rd try - 08/08/10 04:05 PM

Oops, my response to Reboot was supposed to go to you. Thanks for the link- now I understand. Finally.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: GPS apps-Here we go again 3rd try - 08/08/10 05:16 PM

Cool... I think we all learned something.
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: GPS apps - 08/08/10 11:51 PM

I really like Navigon so far (MyRegion is a great deal—especially if you can wait for a sale). And looking at my AT&T record, I’m seeing no increase in data usage . (I did turn off some Navigon feature that sends back reports on your speed, or something like that; maybe for measuring traffic conditions? I forget.)

And I tested my old 3G iPhone’s GPS without a cell connection: I “pre-loaded" a bunch of map data by viewing the Maps app on WiFi, then left WiFi range moved around the area (an area with no cell coverage). The blue dot moved accurately as near as I could tell.

Navigation apps actually have an advantage over Maps when it comes to GPS accuracy: they know you’re probably on a road, and will snap your position to the nearest road.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/09/10 06:28 AM

I bought MotionX GPS Drive for the wife's iPhone. It definitely uses cell data as there is no large download to install. As long as you don't use the satellite view, you aren't wasting much bandwidth though (and you can cache your route)

It's a couple bucks for 30 days service.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GPS apps - 08/11/10 10:46 AM

From Navigon themselves:

"Regarding your e-mail, NAVIGON application uses satellite signal, the GPS antenna it is included in the iPhone device itself and does not need the internet. Though, if you activate the LIVE SERVICES option, then internet connection will be needed."
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GPS apps - 08/12/10 12:16 PM

I just bought the eastern US for $14.99! The whole US was $24.99, but I figured it'll be a long while before I venture to the west again.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/12/10 12:19 PM

I'm thinking about picking up the central US version since it's 50% off. How many map updates do you get for free?
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: GPS apps - 08/12/10 01:58 PM

have no idea
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 12:06 PM

Originally Posted By: zwei
I'm thinking about picking up the central US version since it's 50% off. How many map updates do you get for free?


So, your wife has MotionX but are you saying you have Navigon?

I was just reading the negative reviews of Navigon. Now to read the negs on MotionX.

MotionX gives my current location as my neighbor's address! We are very close -- share a driveway.


.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 12:19 PM

Oh, no. We share the iPhone. I don't have one …yet!

I bought MotionX and really like it so far …I was just wondering if I should pick up navigon while it's dirt cheap. If they let you keep the maps current without charging you each time I might do it …otherwise I'm sticking with MotionX. We don't need it very often, so the ability to pay $3 for a month of voice guidance whenever we need it sounds like a plan to me.
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 01:02 PM

I downloaded and read much of the pdf MotionX manual. I fixed it so it now recognizes my address as home and not my neighbor.

Lots of good information in it on Waypoints and Tracks and then Onboard Maps [how much memory, deleting, saving, etc.]

On their web page, I did all the short easy to understand turorials



Now, if I could just get myself to get at the guts/instructions/goodies concerning my new iPhone, I'd be one informed senior citizen iPhone user! [ smile ]

Concerning the "$3 per month for voice" you mention, when I first installed MotionX I thought I read something about when the month is up, it would cost $29.95 or something. Wish I could find where I read that. I'll keep on reading now to see if I come across it.

We're having a heat wave . . . [sing it Ethel!] and I plan to stay in and stay cool for the weekend.


Found optional packages in the app:

30 days voice guidance $2.99
1 year voice guidance $24.99


.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 01:10 PM

You get one month of service when you buy it. Then, you either pay $2.99 per month …or buy a full year's service for $24.99

If you don't renew the subscription you can still use the app …you just don't get the voice guidance feature.
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 01:21 PM



Ha! You answered while I had a reply open and it looks like I posted before you. KInd of interesting. The time of the post is set when one chooses a reply box ????


.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 01:25 PM

DOH! laugh
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 02:08 PM

Neat how easy it is to tell if your iPhone is positioned to get the satellite communication. I just dropped mine in my lap [away from the big picture window next to me ] and the rotating globe went from blue [communicating with sat] to red [not communicating with sat]

Oh goodness I love toys.

Good thing I have this new iPhone. I no longer am tempted to go order an iPad! . . . . . . . well for a couple of days [ smile ] I'm now telling myself that the NEXT greatest and latest iPad will have jet assisted wings, etc.


.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/13/10 02:11 PM

My next purchase will be an iPod Touch …then another iPad for the wife to replace her iBook G4.

I think we are done with laptops.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: GPS apps - 08/16/10 01:59 PM

Is Google navigation coming to the iPhone or not? First I heard it was, then wasn't, now I don't know what to believe.
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: GPS apps - 08/17/10 12:00 PM


Since I've never used a GPS, last night on the way home from Lowes, I let MotionX be my guide. After it plotted the way for me I purposfully chose a different street requiring a new plot! It was fun. I also let it plot me home when I was on a bike ride. Yippie skippie . . .

I need a car mount now and hook up the cig lighter power thing.

Well, let's throw in a bike mount too. Putting it in my back pocket is not all that convenient.

.
Posted by: zwei

Re: GPS apps - 08/17/10 12:15 PM

I took mine out a couple days after I got it and just started driving down backroads I'd never been on. When I got to the edge of cell signal I let it guide me home.

Would have been pleasant if the kids weren't acting up in the back seat laugh
Posted by: FSM

Re: GPS apps - 09/11/10 08:40 PM

i have MotionX-GPS HD on the iPad, but my iPad is Wifi only (it was $3 so no biggie). but i planned to tether internet from my Samsung EPIC. then i decided to return my EPIC and bought an iPhone 4. the MotionX-GPS i bought is only for the iPad and i am not convinced it's what i want on my iPhone; though, i am intrigued by the "Drive" version of the app. i was really digging the Google Navigation stuff on the Android phone. i wish Google would come out with that for the iPhone.
Posted by: cahalk

Re: GPS apps - 09/13/10 07:50 PM

Be aware it is not good to program your home address and save as home into these programs. If your phone is stolen they would know where you live.

I have CoPilot for a year and it works great.

The GPS works great on the golf course also.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: GPS apps - 09/13/10 08:01 PM

There is another reason why not to label your "home" as home on your GPS. A thief goes to the affluent town for the Friday night football game. Break into expensive SUV and start it up. Fire up the GPS and go "home". No lights on when they pull up (since everyone is at the game) just use the automatic door opener in the car and drive right in. Fill the SUV up with loot.

One might have to plan ahead and make sure you pick off the starting quarterback's family SUV so even grandpa is at the game.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: GPS apps - 09/13/10 08:05 PM

The Tom Tom App for the iPhone is pretty good. I was used to a lot of other GPS programs so it took a while to get used to but really is easier to use than most. The driving directions are excellent. She announces what street to turn on and the moment you miss the turn she comes up with the next best alternative. Great way for finding out short cuts. Well, to a point. She sent me across a state forest and ended up turning around at he locked fire road. I guess it was a real road ages ago.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: GPS apps - 09/14/10 08:14 AM

The solution? Don't live in an affluent town.

wink
Posted by: polymerase

Re: GPS apps - 09/14/10 08:56 AM

Well the affluent town will likely be heavily wired with silent alarms. The redneck town will have one tooth grandpa back home with a shotgun. I think the middle of the road town that has the whole population down at the football stadium is ripe for the picking.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: GPS apps - 09/14/10 09:49 AM

See, if it's poor enough, like mine, then all the HS kids who, were they living in an affluent suburban town would be on the football team, are instead out working to bring in some money for the household. That means that the HS football team sucks big time and no one goes to see the games. So no danger.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: GPS apps - 09/15/10 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: polymerase
There is another reason why not to label your "home" as home on your GPS. A thief goes to the affluent town for the Friday night football game. Break into expensive SUV and start it up. Fire up the GPS and go "home". No lights on when they pull up (since everyone is at the game) just use the automatic door opener in the car and drive right in. Fill the SUV up with loot.


Wow you guys watch way too many movies.

Of course, the affluent person with the SUV also is going to have insurance, and no doubt they'll actually end up with more stuff from the insurance check so it's a win win for everybody.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: GPS apps - 09/15/10 04:53 PM

Originally Posted By: SgtBaxter
[quote=polymerase]
Wow you guys watch way too many movies.


Pretty sure this happened twice in the affluent town next to me.

but all my GPS's have home marked.

Posted by: FSM

Re: GPS apps - 10/06/10 07:52 PM

Originally Posted By: cahalk
Be aware it is not good to program your home address and save as home into these programs. If your phone is stolen they would know where you live.

I have CoPilot for a year and it works great.

The GPS works great on the golf course also.


i have my phone locked so i have to enter a code each time i wake my phone or want to make a call, etc. GPS won't work without being able to get in with the code so i am not too concerned about what is on my phone. plus, if it was stolen then i can quickly erase the phone from my Mac (or remotely find it).