Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to Win?

Posted by: Nagromme

Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to Win? - 07/15/09 01:19 PM

I recently advised a friend to ditch her Mac and get a PC. (Those situations do arise!*)

But she wants to keep her iTunes library. I know how to move the music and then the library file from one Mac to another, but what's the best method to move from Mac to Windows?

I'd like to keep all the playcounts, playlists, etc.--stuff contained only in Apple iTunes Library file (not, as I understand it, in the XML which contains only certain info).

If it can't be done, it can't, but I thought I'd ask smile (Burning a stack of CDs is not an option.)

* Her Mac needs a 3-prong outlet, and she can't afford to have an electrician install any in her new apartment. Rather than frying the Mac (since surge protectors need 3 prongs), she bought a cheap Dell. A REALLY cheap Dell--you get what you pay for, but I think it was a good purchase given her constraints. I helped her cherry-pick features to get the cost down below $400 on a Celoron laptop.
Posted by: carp

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 01:42 PM

Sorry I cannot help with your question

But your friend bought a PC because her outlets are not grounded ? is that it
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 01:51 PM

Yes, pretty much. She also very much wanted a laptop instead of a desktop, but that was secondary. There was no ideal solution for her, so she had to face a non-ideal reality.

If she had kept using her Mac (or rather MY old Mac on loan) without proper grounding and surge protection, it might have lasted a year. It might have lasted two. Or it might have lasted a week, and then fried along with all her data. (My grandmother's iMac was fried by bad power without proper protection.)

Her landlord wouldn't put in 3-prong outlets, and is not legally required to have them, it turns out. An electrician friend volunteered to help, but even the conduits in the walls are not grounded in this old building. So a 2-to-3 adapter wouldn't work: the grounding would be absent.

So after a few weeks of exploring options, she just needed a 2-prong computer (laptop) for next to nothing. $400 was the best we could do. (A netbook wouldn't have run her applications well enough.)

She's already fighting viruses--she's not computer-savvy--but is planning to get a Mac someday again. Meanwhile she mostly runs Web stuff, and her family is giving her Windows tech support so it's off my shoulders.

I looked at a refurb Mini, but that seems to need 3 prongs too (and was hundreds of dollars out of her budget: $500 plus a display).

(A REALLY old used Mac would have cost about the same--but with no warranty and in many ways less capability than a brand-new Dell.)
Posted by: carp

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 03:21 PM

WoW talk about being tripped out - as I was reading your post the power went off laugh laugh spooky

That is correct there is no law that says he has to retrofit with 3 prong , since the the building is grounded at the meters "exterior" - However todays building codes do require all 3 prong and grounding through out . Sounds funny don't it ?

Original Intent ;
Before they believed that grounding the exterior at the meters protects the building from lightning strikes . Power surges and bad appliances the fuse box will take care of that - decades latter appliances power draw grew and grew and became more sensitive with electronics logic boards and such

Anyway , before they care more about the building than someone getting electrocuted
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 03:29 PM

I think (around here) that if a landlord does major work of certain kinds, the outlets have to be updated in the process. But until/unless that happens, an old building doesn't need to have grounded outlets--or even the safety fault outlets in the kitchen/bathroom.

Slightly O/T, but I wonder if a device with a power adapter (like an iPhone or laptop) is somewhat better protected than a desktop computer? Could a surge fry the charger and spare the device in some cases?
Posted by: carp

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 04:11 PM

Correct
Only if the landlord does retro work that requires a "building permit" <- key word then he would have to adhere to the new 3 prong codes

Quote:
Could a surge fry the charger and spare the device in some cases?


Yes and No depending on the surge
Power adopters are basically "low voltage transducers" say from 15 amps down to the device 5 amps and would fry first but how much gets through to the device is a question - thats the job for the surge protector

Keep in mind that the ground wire is basically there for protection from electrocution and possible fire , it gives the voltage an easy route back to the ground - grounding does nothing for surge protection at all , your fuse box is the first protection , your 3 prong surge protector is the 2nd and should be more sensitive than the fuse box

In short the 3rd prong on a surge protector only protects you from electrocution does absolutely nothing to protect your devices . Thats the job for the built in trip fuse to detect a surge
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 04:18 PM

I see. I was led to believe from my research, though, that a 3-prong surge protector without proper grounding will also fail to protect from surges. I wonder if that's the case?

Not that electrocution isn't also worth avoiding smile
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 05:07 PM

Originally Posted By: Nagromme


* Her Mac needs a 3-prong outlet, and she can't afford to have an electrician install any in her new apartment. Rather than frying the Mac (since surge protectors need 3 prongs), she bought a cheap Dell.


You have got to be kidding me. I have a whole floor of two prong outlets in my house. Every power cord for my laptops I take a pair of pliers and wiggle that third prong back and forth. Three wiggles and it snaps off.

Problem solved. Laptops don't "need" to be grounded. It is OSHA approved overkill. Is there going to be a short to your case? No way. Towers I might add a ground wire which is an easy connection to the screw that holds the wall plate on but I don't think I ever bothered with that.

Posted by: polymerase

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 05:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Nagromme

Not that electrocution isn't also worth avoiding smile
But it's not worth buying a Dell for.
Posted by: carp

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 05:36 PM

Quote:
I see. I was led to believe from my research, though, that a 3-prong surge protector without proper grounding will also fail to protect from surges. I wonder if that's the case?


As mentioned the 3rd prong does nothing to protect against surges - only protects you from electrocution <-- then again a good surge protector would trip offf before that can happen .
Posted by: carp

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 05:49 PM

Quote:
Towers I might add a ground wire which is an easy connection to the screw that holds the wall plate on but I don't think I ever bothered with that.


Your Correct

An easy way to ground with a thin wire
Keep in mind that commercial buildings the outlet box is metal - residential they are plastic or resin fiber compost so that ground to wall plate won't work . older homes were all metal boxes until 3 strand wire became standard

So yes nagrome friend could buy a 2 buck , 2 prong plug for a 3 prong surge protector and get away with it . Providing she has a good surge protector
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 06:08 PM

Originally Posted By: polymerase
Originally Posted By: Nagromme

Not that electrocution isn't also worth avoiding smile
But it's not worth buying a Dell for.


I'm sure after a year with the Dell she'll agree smile But by then maybe she can afford a Mac again.

As for a 2-prong to 3-prong adapter, it wasn't going to work: nothing in the outlet box was grounded, so there was no way to attach it as anything but a dummy.

(It may be that the third prong is entirely a government fiction--but my online research came up with electricians equally certain it wasn't, so we didn't go that route. It also turned up people certain that a surge protector required grounding, and now I've heard the opposite of that too smile )
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:09 PM

Of course electricians are going to say a third prong is necessary. It puts food on their table. Unless it is a highly sensitive instrument or it was put together by monkeys you can live without it.

Edison didn't think we needed everything grounded.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:09 PM

You're confusing voltage and current and power (watts).

Originally Posted By: carp

Power adopters are basically "low voltage transducers" say from 15 amps down to the device 5 amps and would fry first but how much gets through to the device is a question - thats the job for the surge protector
A lot of people get that confused. Actually the power adapters don't change amps, amps are drawn by the device that's being powered. Adapters change the voltage, so theoretically since there is less voltage there are more amps available. Using a 15 amp circuit at 120 volts you can pull 1800 watts of power before blowing a breaker, IxV=P, amps x volts = watts, so at 12 volts it's 150 amps that can be drawn from the line, 1800 watts = 12v x 150 amps. Of course no IC can carry 150 amps, in electronic land that's an LOL, LOL.

Quote:
Keep in mind that the ground wire is basically there for protection from electrocution and possible fire , it gives the voltage an easy route back to the ground - grounding does nothing for surge protection at all ,
It has everything to do with surge protection. In a good surge protector the surge, the over voltage, is sent to ground, not neutral. It's not a current surge, it's a voltage surge. In theory there is more current available since the voltage is higher, P=IV, but there needs to be equipment to pull the current to trip the fuse, sometimes it happens, mainly on circuits with motors or a lot of lighting. By the time the fuse trips it's to late though, the damage is probably done. Voltage is 60 hz, surge protectors generally stop surges within 100 hz or more, so the over voltage can't get to the equipment.

Quote:
In short the 3rd prong on a surge protector only protects you from electrocution does absolutely nothing to protect your devices . Thats the job for the built in trip fuse to detect a surge
No, the job of the breaker is to protect against too high of a current draw from the circuit, not an incoming voltage surge. But again at the point it trips it's too late anyway. Like mentioned above the excess voltage can cause the circuit to draw more current if devices are attached, but a circuit with no load will not blow even with a voltage surge of many times the rated 120/240.

Edit - Re: the third prong. It will send any voltage on the case to ground, protecting you from electrocution, but if you grab a hot wire and and it has a path to ground through you the third prong is useless.
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:18 PM

What I understood was interesting smile

That reminds me, if you store candy in your outlets, be VERY careful about small children. Do what I do, and put a "warning fork" next to each outlet. Make sure the kids understand that the fork means "this candy, although delicious, is not for you."
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:20 PM

Originally Posted By: carp

So yes nagrome friend could buy a 2 buck , 2 prong plug for a 3 prong surge protector and get away with it . Providing she has a good surge protector
Here's a schematic of a basic surge protector. If you notice the devices protecting all connect to the ground.

http://www.freeinfosociety.com/electronics/schemview.php?id=1602
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:21 PM

What was your original question?

laugh
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:22 PM

I think it was about cleaning my MacBook Air. Soft cotton cloth and a little plain water?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:27 PM

Here ya' go. Maybe this will do it.

http://www.mobilegadgetnews.com/index.php?showtopic=22700
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:31 PM

Thanks. I found something like that, but with the reservation that using that XML file won't keep certain data such as your playcounts. (So "most played" smart playlists won't work anymore.)

Still, it keeps your ratings and playlists, and may be the best option available. And I have TextWrangler to manipulate the XML with.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Nagromme
And I have TextWrangler to manipulate the XML with.
Now that's tricky, didn't think of that. Let us know how it goes.
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:35 PM

I've done that kind of path replacing before--kind of a pain but should work if those steps are accurate. Here's a cleaner version of the same steps, for posterity:

http://lifehacker.com/software/itunes/ge...back-242468.php

And for the "most played" playlists, I could even manually play the last few seconds of each song, say, 3-4 times. I could do that to boost the playcounts of just the few dozen most-played songs from the old library, and my friend will have a good starting point. If it's even worth that.

Next challenge: reformatting her iPod for windows. (Probably easy.)
Posted by: carp

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 07:55 PM

You said it better then me

I do disagree with some theories -via- my electricians . We had many discussions over the years
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/15/09 11:03 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
I do disagree with some theories -via- my electricians . We had many discussions over the years
Well if they said anything different from what I did they are wrong. There's a difference between being able to run 3 wires around a house and sizing a breaker to the wire size, as compared to actually knowing electronics and circuit level theory, such as how a surge protector circuit is made. I've worked with a lot of electricians over the years too from all the high power equipment installations I've been involved in, there's a reason many are only handling 3 wires. I've seen some really stupid mistakes. Ask if they can explain three phase power and why it's more efficient. If you really want to see deer in the headlights look ask about three phase high leg delta.

The only thing easier is phones, that's only 2 wires and they're low voltage and current. grin
Posted by: macbeemer

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/16/09 09:23 AM

When you move from a mac to a dell, don't you just connect the two via firewire and run the Dell migration assistant? Wouldn't that import the iTunes library?
Posted by: Nagromme

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/16/09 10:46 AM

I doubt the Dell software supports Apple's specific iTunes XML, but it's something to look into. (We don't just want the files, but the playlists and ratings straight into iTunes.)

Hopefully the bottom-end Dell laptop HAS real 6-pin Firewire.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/16/09 11:10 AM

I think PC's use USB to migrate files.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/18/09 06:45 PM

Ya know why there's so much confusion in this thread??!???



Dude......










You bought a DELL!!!


wink



Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 07/18/09 07:33 PM

LOL. That's got to be it. grin
Posted by: trey

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 08/22/09 09:18 AM

To be sure, the apartment I'm in now is the fist one since 2001 to have grounded outlets. And most (well, all) of those years were in south Louisiana, where severe lightning storms are an almost daily occurrence for much of the year. None of my computers ever minded.

Posted by: Jim_

Re: Migrate iTunes library (full metadata) Mac to - 08/22/09 09:23 AM

It's a crap shoot what gets hit, that's for sure. You should play the lottery. smile