iPods and hearing loss . . .

Posted by: MattMac112

iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 08:23 PM


This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from the iPod:

Tinnitus

Nasty stuff. I'm afraid there is an entire generation of iPod users who may have permanently damaged their hearing already.

Brings up an interesting thought, though. How many of you actually have some form of Tinnitus? When you're in a still and quiet room, do you notice any faint, high pitched noise?

More on Tinnitus.


Posted by: FSM

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 08:34 PM

nope.

and you don't need to avoid it for that fear as you can control the volume, Matt. my kids have an iPod. i went in and changed the maximum volume to a very medium level before i gave it to them. they cannot hear their iPod if they are in a fairly noisy environment, but it works great in their bedrooms or on long car rides.

Posted by: MattMac112

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 08:50 PM

Quote:
and you don't need to avoid it for that fear as you can control the volume, Matt.


No! Really Sean? Is there really a volume control on the iPod? My God, what'll Steve Jobs come up with next?!

Well hot damn, you are right. And to prove it, here's an overly annoying and slightly condescending snippet® from Wikipedia :

Quote:
Other operations such as scrolling through menu items and controlling the volume are performed by using the click wheel in a rotational manner.


Son of a ... !! That's amazing!

Posted by: drjohn

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 09:01 PM

I don't have an iPod, don't like loud music and do have tinnitus.
Posted by: FSM

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 09:20 PM

Originally Posted By: MattMac112

This is one of the reasons I've stayed away from the iPod:

Tinnitus

Nasty stuff.
Originally Posted By: MattMac112
Quote:
and you don't need to avoid it for that fear as you can control the volume, Matt.


No! Really Sean? Is there really a volume control on the iPod?
i wasn't even talking about the volume control on the device. in iTunes you can set the maximum volume to a level that is not loud at all, so even if the kids turn it all the way up they aren't going to get loud music. you noted that you were avoiding an iPod partly because of the fear of Tinnitus. i figured i'd bring you up to par on how you can potentially alleviate that particular reason . . . and you got all smart assy in response.
Posted by: Bryan

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 10:03 PM

Originally Posted By: MattMac112
And to prove it, here's an overly annoying and slightly condescending snippet® from Wikipedia :



HAHAAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!


As someone whose hearing isn't what it used to be, I can attest to the need to be careful. Years of headphones, music, etc. have lessened my hearing. I did it to myself...but because youth is wasted on the young, I never gave it much thought.

With all the cell phones, iPods, rap music blaring in white suburban kids' Hondas....I think we'll be faced with a couple generations of deaf people in another 20 years.
Posted by: MikeSellers

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 11:05 PM

I've developed tinnitus in the last year. Most of the time it doesn't bother me since there's so much ambient noise during the day that I don't notice it. At night it's getting harder to ignore, so I'll probably have to get a fan or something that can generate some white noise.

I've never been a big concert goer. I can only remember one concert by The Who, where my ears were ringing the next day. I did wear big headphones when I was a teenager to listen to records and earbuds/small headphones over the years when I've gone jogging and walking. And I still sometimes use small headphones when I'm on the treadmill but I'm trying to cut back on that.
Posted by: garyW

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/28/08 11:30 PM

Quote:
i figured i'd bring you up to par on how you can potentially alleviate that particular reason . . . and you got all smart assy in response.


Parental control setting for volume limit. Set the maximum volume allowed on the iPod and lock it with a combination. If the kids have a Shuffle, iTunes let you password lock the max volume level.

>http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38403



Posted by: MicMeister

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 02:34 AM

Heh, I remember these concerns being raised for the first time in my lifetime when the Walkman came around...so I guess you stayed away from the Walkman and portable cd players as well. wink

Tinnitus and hearing loss are also fairly common among veteran musicians and DJs, thanks to loud volume, with DJs especially due to having high volume in their headphones while mixing. The iPod itself shouldn't be anymore dangerous than any other device with headphones before or after it.

Yep, I do get the occasional tinnitus squeal, but I'm glad it's nothing permanent. Also, I can still pick most of the high-pitched frequencies that most of my peers can't, and they hurt my ears, especially the vacuum cleaner sound makes me physically nauseous at times unless I wear ear plugs.

I do have a slight hearing loss in my other ear thanks to military service, which the military doctors obviously denied and tested and proved to be non-existent, though, and it seems affect mostly a certain frequency region anyhow and I've learned to cope with it. Still, I sometimes miss by a mile when locating a sound source.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 04:14 AM

We're ushering in an entire generation of kids who are going to be suffering premature hearing loss / degradation. You can't tell them anything so they're gonna listen at whatever volume they d@mn well please. I should know, having played electric guitar and bass waaaay too loud back in the day.

Now that I yam older and slightly less confident of my abilities to slay the world, I never listen to the iPod with ear buds. It's just too easy to set it a titch louder than it ought to be. We just have our 60 gigger sitting in a Klipsch unit in the living room/kitchen. Heck, I don't even mix my music with my 'phones on... not if I don't have to, that is.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 06:27 AM

Originally Posted By: VarmintBlubber
We're ushering in an entire generation of kids who are going to be suffering premature hearing loss / degradation.


Exactly how is it any different than kids growing up in the '90's who had portable CD players (which played louder than iPods), or kid's in the '80's who grew up with with the Walkman, or kids like me who've gladly used all 3? smile

I think people would be shocked to learn the volume levels they're subjected to everyday in their cars and offices, and to know they're just as likely to lose hearing from such sources.

As for tinnitus, it's not simply caused by loud noise, but also by high blood pressure, salt, coffee, caffeine, vitamins, and a myriad of other things. Most everyone has a slight form of it, not unlike when you close your eyes and you still see images and patterns for awhile. That's normal. If it starts getting louder however, then it's time to worry.
Posted by: trey

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 07:09 AM

Quote:
i figured i'd bring you up to par on how you can potentially alleviate that particular reason . . . and you got all smart assy in response.


He's got nothing else.

I fear for some of the people I see on the subway with their iPods. I know the things have to be cranked way up in order to her the music over the noise of the train. I have mine set to only go up to about three quarters volume (which I think is still a bit to loud for soe music), and I can barely hear the music over the noise of some trains.
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 07:15 AM

Quote:
Heck, I don't even mix my music with my 'phones on... not if I don't have to, that is.


Same here, Max. When I'm cutting vocal tracks, I do so without headphones. Mixing? Done at much lower volume levels than before. And when DJ'ing a wedding, I wear earplugs now.

Preserve and protect.


Posted by: MattMac112

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 07:26 AM

Quote:
Tinnitus and hearing loss are also fairly common among veteran musicians and DJs, thanks to loud volume, with DJs especially due to having high volume in their headphones while mixing. The iPod itself shouldn't be anymore dangerous than any other device with headphones before or after it.


Which is what Pete Townshend attributes his hearing loss to . . .

Quote:
Writing on his website, Townshend said that excessive volume at the group's explosive 1960s concerts was not the cause. He blamed the earsplitting sounds emitted through studio headphones during years of recording.

He warned the users of iPod headphones: My intuition tells me there is terrible trouble ahead. The downside [to downloading] . . . may be that we use earphones at almost every stage of interaction with sound.¯


In Rolling Stone . . .

Quote:
In 2001, Fligor began a study to determine how loud -- and for how long -- you can safely listen to a portable music player through headphones. He found that the kind of headphones you use greatly affects the risk. "The closer to the eardrum, the higher the sound levels the system is capable of producing," Fligor says. On average, Fligor found that you can safely listen to over-the-ear headphones with a player set at level six (out of ten) for an hour a day. For most in-the-ear headphones, like the earbuds that come with most MP3 players, the acceptable time at that level is less -- around thirty minutes for some models before you've exceeded your safe daily dose.

Manufacturers of portable players recognize that their products are potentially hazardous -- Sony, for instance, includes a hearing-loss warning with all its players -- but they leave it to users to keep the volume at a safe level. Apple declined to specify how loud the iPod can go, but Fligor's preliminary findings indicate that the iPod is comparable to a Sony CD Walkman with earbuds, which can go as high as 130 decibels -- equivalent to a jackhammer. European iPods, in contrast, are capped at 100 decibels by law.

Young fans seem especially unaware of the risks associated with noise exposure. In 1999, Dr. Roland Eavey, Harvard Medical School professor of otolaryngology at Massachusetts Eye and Ear Infirmary, went to an R.E.M. show with his teenage daughter. "In the parking lot after, everyone was saying things like, 'Man, are your ears ringing?'" he says. "I suspected they didn't realize that they might be having trouble." Eavey conducted a study with the Harvard School of Public Health to determine how conscious concertgoers are that they might be damaging their hearing. Last year, Eavey's team posted a questionnaire on MTV's Web site. In three days, nearly 10,000 people (most under twenty-one) responded, answering twenty-eight questions about their attitudes toward issues including sexually transmitted diseases (fifty percent said it was "a very big problem"), alcohol/ drug use (forty-seven percent) and depression (forty-four percent). "Hearing loss was eight percent," Eavey says. "It was the last thing anybody's concerned about. But we asked later on in the survey, 'Have you ever had a hearing loss or ringing in your ears?' Two-thirds had."


The volume limits you can apply to the iPod are all well and good for the little kiddies, but tell a teenager to turn it down or to limit iPod usage to 30 minutes and you'll get laughed at.


Posted by: MacBozo

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 08:44 AM

You're probably more likely to get tinnitus from the subways, then. wink
Posted by: FSM

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 10:27 AM

Originally Posted By: garyW
Quote:
i figured i'd bring you up to par on how you can potentially alleviate that particular reason . . . and you got all smart assy in response.


Parental control setting for volume limit. Set the maximum volume allowed on the iPod and lock it with a combination. If the kids have a Shuffle, iTunes let you password lock the max volume level.

>http://support.apple.com/kb/TA38403



yep, that's exactly what i used. i didn't set a password, but my kids aren't old enough to figure things out yet.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 01:56 PM

Matt: I still dig the intimacy of headphones, no question, but like you I limit my use with them and I make a conscious effort to pull the levels down. When mixing vox and music, I use monitors to get a better sense of the tonal balance and equalization priorities. Head phones can be a lot sweeter sounding than the actual thing coming out of your average speaker.

Sarge: sure, people played their Walkmans too loud at one time, too. That was the iPod of its time, although I'm thinking the mighty iPod broke a few records the Walkman originally set - and that means bajillions of teens and twenty somethings are listening to their devices at crazy volume levels.
Posted by: carp

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 12/29/08 03:39 PM

Thats a bunch of Bull

When it comes to kids and adults they tune out their parents or anyone else for that matter if they don't hear want they want to hear - bad hearing or not

Bryan Chaffin - is a frigging idiot pegging the iPod for hearing lost what a bafoon

I knew a guy who was a bartender in a disco , he worked there for years . He was so deaf , he has to yell to hear himself speaking and this was back in the 70s
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/17/10 03:10 PM

And now there is this:

Hearing loss among U.S. adolescents has surged, probably because of the use of devices such as earbuds for listening to music, doctors say.

Researchers surveyed a sample of children ages 12 to 19 in 2005 and 2006 and found that 19.5 percent had some hearing loss, compared with 14.9 percent in a study covering the years 1988 to 1994, according to a report published today in the Journal of the American Medical Association. Hearing loss of 25 decibels or more -- enough that the children were often aware of the deficit -- increased to 5.3 percent of the sample, from 3.5 percent in the earlier group.

Listening to loud sounds through earbuds -- the tiny electronic speakers that fit into ears, for use with personal music players -- is probably the main reason that more adolescents are losing some of their hearing, said William Slattery, director of clinical studies at the House Ear Institute, a Los Angeles medical practice, who wasn’t involved in today’s study.

“Once you have hearing loss, there’s a greater risk of that hearing loss progressing as you get older,” Slattery, a clinical professor in the Department of Otolaryngology at the University of Southern California in Los Angeles, said today in a telephone interview. “Here is a major study that demonstrates that teenagers are having hearing loss in a significant percent of children. It can happen and it does happen.”

Teens and parents need to be told that hearing loss from noise that occurs early in life isn’t reversible, he said.



http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2010-08-17...chers-find.html
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/17/10 03:55 PM

How did I miss this thread?

Anyway, Matt, you are correct in this. I find myself listening to my iPhone too loud sometimes.

When I was young, we spent most of our time outside, never bothering to listen to headphones that much. Now, that's all you see: kids listening to their iPods. Try to tell them to turn it down only gets you stares from them.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/17/10 03:56 PM

Steve,
Matt's right and the article he links to is right. There is a difference between tuning out and hearing loss.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/17/10 04:32 PM

It could also be the cars with 10,000 Watt stereos that you can hear 10 miles away. I prefer to hear what's going on around me rather than filtering it out with constant music.
Posted by: carp

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/17/10 09:04 PM

Right Michael.

Big booming cars is a real problem - in fact there is a State law against those here but who enforces it?. Also Disco joints and even movie theaters.

CNN is running a thingy right now about this very subject. In fact there was some guy at times square with a decimeter. Just normal street traffic and people was 80 kb, a siren went by and it shot up to 88 kb -- 85 is the max safe limit. So just walking the streets with out an ear bud can be dangerous. laugh

My thoughts on the matter - IMO.

1 - Walk mans and other various (headphone) players have been around for a long time. So it is NOT only a iPod thingy.

2 - Ear Buds design, have nothing to do with hearing loss - its the volume, so don't target Apple.

IMO.
Since so many people now have iPods - brought this attention to Apple. this study should have been done decades ago.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/18/10 02:55 PM

I must have golden ears. I spent my youth listening to headphones on walkmans and portable CD players, went to more concerts than I can remember, had a stereo in my old bronco that would move the roof up and down an inch and a half and usually listened to it that way, and yet at 40 teens using their "silent" ringtones always have a look of shock when I tell them how annoying and uncomfortable they are. My wife and daughter will be listening to TV, and I'll come in and turn it down and ask them if they're deaf.

Then again, while I don't shy away from enjoying really loud music I don't listen to it for hours on end that way, and wear ear plugs when doing things like mowing. I believe the monotonous tone of a mower engine for and hour or two is *far* more harmful to your ears than the varying tone of music at the same volume.

We get tested annually for hearing and hearing shifts are recorded, which I think is bogus because the company can't control if someone is going shooting on off time with no hearing protection, or using their lawn equipment, etc. But at least I know I'm not going deaf.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: iPods and hearing loss . . . - 08/19/10 10:59 AM

What??!!??