Global cooling

Posted by: Jim_

Global cooling - 09/11/13 09:47 PM

How about that. The earth has natural cooling and warming cycles that aren't near as affected by us puny humans as everyone wants us to believe? Our meager efforts in the last few years certainly haven't turned things around this fast.

There has been a 60 per cent increase in the amount of ocean covered with ice compared to this time last year, the equivalent of almost a million square miles.
In a rebound from 2012's record low, an unbroken ice sheet more than half the size of Europe already stretches from the Canadian islands to Russia's northern shores, days before the annual re-freeze is even set to begin.
The Northwest Passage from the Atlantic to the Pacific has remained blocked by pack-ice all year, forcing some ships to change their routes.


I'd like to see if this is true, it would sure take the wind out of the doom and gloomers sails.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Global cooling - 09/11/13 11:24 PM

Data

The good news:
"This was 1.13 million square kilometers (398,000 square miles) below the 1981 to 2010 average for August, but well above the level recorded last year, which was the lowest September extent in the satellite record."

The not-so-good news:
"These contrasts in ice extent from one year to the next highlight the year-to-year variability attending the overall, long-term decline in sea ice extent."

OTOH:
"while in the Antarctic, sea ice has been at a record high the past few days." YAY!

The take-away: One year's worth of data do not a trend make ;-=)
Posted by: lanovami

Re: Global cooling - 09/11/13 11:40 PM

"I'd like to see if this is true, it would sure take the wind out of the doom and gloomers sails."

Isn't it better to err on the side of caution. Doom and gloom might get people who can do something acting on it. Saying it's all just cycles won't. Which would be fine if that turns out to be true, which is by no means assured.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Global cooling - 09/12/13 03:54 AM

Nah.. just keep spewing CO2 into atmosphere...it couldn't have any effect.

Those holes in the ozone? Natural. mad

We won't ruin this planet. When she has had enough she will move her tectonic plates and roll her oceans and it will be like a dog shaking fleas off its back.
Posted by: lanovami

Re: Global cooling - 09/12/13 02:05 PM

Are you being...sarcastic? wink
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: Global cooling - 09/12/13 02:50 PM

Quote:
like a dog shaking fleas off its back.


[censored], folks. We’re going away. And we won’t leave much of a trace, either. Maybe a little Styrofoam … The planet’ll be here and we’ll be long gone. Just another failed mutation. Just another closed-end biological mistake. An evolutionary cul-de-sac. The planet’ll shake us off like a bad case of fleas.

George Carlin Fan, I see.


smile
Posted by: lanovami

Re: Global cooling - 09/12/13 03:00 PM

Evolutionary cul de sac. Heh. Like the Neanderthals. I like it. I prob heard it before as I love Carlin, but nice to hear again.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Global cooling - 09/13/13 07:38 PM

This phenomenon is not unknown...
...in fact, (like the sudden release of methane hydrate sequestered within the frozen thawing tundra) it was expected among climatologists for some time.

Thermohaline circulation

New study: Collapse of Atlantic Ocean circulation possible

While many of the 'Climate Models' were beginning to factor-in the amount of fresh water entering the North Atlantic due to the projected melting of The Greenland Ice Sheets, they weren't prepared for the event of the relatively rapid melting of the Polar Arctic Icecap. eek

BTW
They were also expecting a dramatic shift of the Jet-Stream that mitigated the day to day weather, they were caught off-guard that it would effect the weather as rapidly and dramatically as it has.

BTW:btw:
The recent Mid-Western Drought that cause a dramatic reduction in Wheat Production this year is already being reflected in the price of baked goods... and even BAKING Products.
I just got back from shopping... since when has All-Purpose Flour cost $5.99 for 5 pounds?
IOW:
for those of us already "bumping along the bottom" baking your own bread is no longer considered an option. smile

Thank your local "Climate Change Denier" whose "wait & see" attitude has successfully kept alternate renewable energy exploration to a slow crawl for the past 30 years, while they grew fat off the carcasses of dead dinosaurs.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 07:15 AM

Yeah.. I heard him say that years ago.. and it stuck with me.

On a side note... my daughter is almost 5 and until recently would watch Thomas the Train.
Narrated by George....
It sure was weird this last year hearing him narrating an animated show... from the beyond.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 09:37 AM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
While many of the 'Climate Models' were beginning to factor-in the amount of fresh water entering the North Atlantic due to the projected melting of The Greenland Ice Sheets, they weren't prepared for the event of the relatively rapid melting of the Polar Arctic Icecap. eek

BTW
They were also expecting a dramatic shift of the Jet-Stream that mitigated the day to day weather, they were caught off-guard that it would effect the weather as rapidly and dramatically as it has.
That's my whole point, it's all just a big guess as to what Mother Nature is going to throw at us next. We give our puny selves too much credit for being able to influence such strong forces IMO.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 09:42 AM

BTW, it's not that I'm against trying to clean things up, I've said that many times. I just question the "science" that has guessed wrong so many times and the regulations that raise the cost of so many things that are not necessary to implement with such haste, so let's lay off the sarcastic comments regarding my opinion and stick to facts, okay?

The fact is that they guessed wrong about the ice cover. Let's revisit this next year and see if it's a blip or a new trend in a different direction. Hopefully we'll all still be here next year and not covered in salt water, eh? smile
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 09:42 AM

Natural variability is definitely unforeseeable. But you keep spewing CO2 into the atmosphere and, regardless of the variability, the physical properties of the gas will cause what's inevitable.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 09:48 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Nah.. just keep spewing CO2 into atmosphere...it couldn't have any effect.

Those holes in the ozone? Natural. mad
The only ozone data we have is what we've gleaned in the last few decades, it may have always had variations over the centuries. To paraphrase what #6 said, a few years of data does not a trend make.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 09:54 AM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
Natural variability is definitely unforeseeable. But you keep spewing CO2 into the atmosphere and, regardless of the variability, the physical properties of the gas will cause what's inevitable.
Like I said, not against cleaning it up at all, we probably have influnced the rise according to the data, but CO2 has been naturally on the rise for thousands of years and does not necessarily correlate to temperature variations. It's just the earth aging.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Global cooling - 09/14/13 10:21 AM

Originally Posted By: Jim_
Originally Posted By: Celandine
While many of the 'Climate Models' were beginning to factor-in the amount of fresh water entering the North Atlantic due to the projected melting of The Greenland Ice Sheets, they weren't prepared for the event of the relatively rapid melting of the Polar Arctic Icecap. eek

BTW
They were also expecting a dramatic shift of the Jet-Stream that mitigated the day to day weather, they were caught off-guard that it would effect the weather as rapidly and dramatically as it has.
That's my whole point, it's all just a big guess as to what Mother Nature is going to throw at us next. We give our puny selves too much credit for being able to influence such strong forces IMO.


...and my whole point was that
the climatologists knew what to expect...
...they were just shocked how fast it's happened
once we'd reached the threshold they'd predicted.

They've known that adding a sufficient amount of
fresh water to the salt water would slow the
Deep Sea Upwelling that could trigger an Ice Age,
they simply underestimated how fast the melting
of both the Polar Icecaps.

My thought is that if we've triggered a cooling
trend... it MAY HAVE Bought Us a few years to
clean up the atmosphere... if not I can make yet
another "DOOM 'n GLOOM" Prediction:

You needn't take my word for it,
watch IceRoad Truckers (or whatever that so-called
"REALITY" Show is called) and listen to the
truckers discussing their trucks getting boggged-
down in thawing slush... and Houses in Alaska
falling off their foundations and sinking into what
HAD BEEN considered "PERMA-FROST".

Then look up Methane clathrate (Hydrate)

If the cooling trend prevents the defrosting long
enough, it may buy us some time...
Piddling away that time would NOT be a smart move.

I have to leave now.. I've been called upon to cook
for a crowd.. the last gathering for the season.

I'll be back tonight.. or tomorrow.