Great Bill Maher "New Rule"

Posted by: DLC

Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/12/13 08:33 PM

His main dialogue tonight was focused on "Is the Border Surge and Illegal immigration Bill- (read push) a new "WAR" to replace those winding 2 down in the ME?"

As Bill said the flow of immigrants from Mexico has all but slowed to a trickle. Furthermore, 50% of the "illegals" enter the country legally and just don't leave ! So how is a wall and doubling the border guard going to do much towards this problem except spend Billions? I thought the GOP was against Big government. wink

I didn't know this but Bill claims in the Immigration Bill, there are directives about weapons and weapons systems that must be purchased from specific MI-complex companies. WTF is with that? Is this another Halliburton handout ?

I think he has some very good points and concerns !!
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/12/13 08:43 PM

Quote:
Is this another Halliburton handout ?

Probably Dickie or his friends.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/12/13 09:12 PM

I loved his comment "This Bill has as much to do withIllegal Immigration as Sarah Palin did mapping the human genome !!" laugh

We have deficits to eliminate and control but we can throw $46 billion to a nonexistent problem. (OH we have 12 million illegals HERE do deal with, but all this border BS doesn't touch that problem. THAT's a different issue ! )

Besides that we can CONTROL illegals working here by setting up a system like Germany has... you have to have some kind of document that proves you're a legal citizen. In this electronic era, you can tie biological data to it (fingerprints, retina scans, genetic and medical information, etc) so it's hard as hell to counterfeit! No documentation - no work. Illegals can arrive all day and night but they won't stay without a job ! Yeah it's a little "1984-ish", but we already have that in a SS number and card... just make it electronic and bioinformatic so someone with a $200 laser printer can't duplicate ! Hold employers accountable ! This is much more logical and effective than a border surge = a $46 billion pile of crap ! (and handout to the MI Complex)
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/12/13 09:21 PM

It's exasperating.
I'm going to have a scotch.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/12/13 11:00 PM



Leahy: GOP Border Security Amendment
ĎA Christmas Wish List For Haliburtoní
Posted by: MrB

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 11:28 AM

There is a segment of the population that seem to think that illegal aliens will take jobs from citizens,

I also wonder if those who think that this is not so would still think that if they thought their job was in jeopardy
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 11:39 AM

Originally Posted By: MrB
There is a segment of the population that seem to think that illegal aliens will take jobs from citizens,

I also wonder if those who think that this is not so would still think that if they thought their job was in jeopardy

Unlikely scenario, since most of those jobs are ones most US citizens wouldn't deign to have in the first place ...
Posted by: AusMac

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 12:12 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Originally Posted By: MrB
There is a segment of the population that seem to think that illegal aliens will take jobs from citizens,

I also wonder if those who think that this is not so would still think that if they thought their job was in jeopardy

Unlikely scenario, since most of those jobs are ones most US citizens wouldn't deign to have in the first place ...


Jobs are jobs.

finding work is .. finding work.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 12:18 PM

Quote:
Jobs are jobs.

finding work is .. finding work.


Those are facts. However, if you are suggesting anybody will take any job, I believe you are delusional.
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 12:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MrB
There is a segment of the population that seem to think that illegal aliens will take jobs from citizens,


I do not think that is true. Most of those people are undocumented so how could they get a legitimate job and keep it?


.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 01:44 PM

Originally Posted By: AusMac
Jobs are jobs.

finding work is .. finding work.

While I'd debate that jobs are all equal, I would agree that for a desperate unemployed citizen any job should be better than not earning anything at all. The question there is wether that really is true in the real world and if so, how many are unable to find *any* job at all due to the presence of illegal workers?
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 02:21 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Originally Posted By: MrB
There is a segment of the population that seem to think that illegal aliens will take jobs from citizens,

I also wonder if those who think that this is not so would still think that if they thought their job was in jeopardy

Unlikely scenario, since most of those jobs are ones most US citizens wouldn't deign to have in the first place ...


While it's probably true that a Mexican is not
very likely to steal a Corporate Lawyer's Job,
you're not taking into account that someone trying
to support a family by picking fruit might feel
a bit more pressured, esp. if that's the only
work to be found for a hundred miles of his home.

...doesn't even have to be an illegal alien...
in some cases the migrant pickers might even be
a college student on Walk-About that your boss
hires for the duration of the YEARLY HARVEST
willing to work for a $1 less than you can manage on.
Posted by: AusMac

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 02:26 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Originally Posted By: AusMac
Jobs are jobs.

finding work is .. finding work.

While I'd debate that jobs are all equal, I would agree that for a desperate unemployed citizen any job should be better than not earning anything at all. The question there is wether that really is true in the real world and if so, how many are unable to find *any* job at all due to the presence of illegal workers?


You do not live in the real world if you have to ask the question.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 02:40 PM

AP: Private prisons profit from illegal immigrants

(AP) MIAMI - The U.S. is locking up more illegal immigrants
than ever, generating lucrative profits for the nation's largest
prison companies, and an Associated Press review shows the
businesses have spent tens of millions of dollars lobbying
lawmakers and contributing to campaigns.



Can you say;
"LEGALIZED SLAVERY"? grin
SURE! I knew you could! smile


Quote:
Contracting out prison labor

By putting prisoners to work and paying them competitive wages, many private companies are reducing prison costs for the government by withholding earnings for taxes, room and board, Family support, and victim's compensation. Such employment also gives prisoners the skills and work experience that will prepare them for the job market when they are released.

Private business has become increasingly interested in prison labor during the past decade. Prompted by state and federal measures lifting restrictions to private sector use of prison labor, some eleven states contract out the work of an estimated 1,000 convicts. Over twenty firms, ranging from small businesses to multinational corporations, provide jobs for inmates. For instance, Best Western International, Inc, a major hotel chain, employs over thirty Arizona prison workers to operate the hotel's telephone reservation system. Since the Best Western program began in 1981, inmates have paid $182,000 in taxes, contributed over $187,000 to the state for room and board, and paid at least $112,000 in Family support. Similarly, Trans World Airlines, Inc. hires young offenders from the Ventura Center Training School in California to handle over the phone flight reservations. The inmates have paid a total of $13,000 in taxes, $15,000 for room and board, and $11,000 to victims for restitution.

In most cases, the state correctional system provides the working facility for the private firm. The firm manages and trains the inmates and releases their earnings to the care of the state. The wage rates, in most instances, are negotiated between the state agency and the private firm.
.:etc:.


...and that's the "Rose-Colored" Version smirk
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 03:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
While it's probably true that a Mexican is not
very likely to steal a Corporate Lawyer's Job,
you're not taking into account that someone trying
to support a family by picking fruit might feel
a bit more pressured, esp. if that's the only
work to be found for a hundred miles of his home.

...doesn't even have to be an illegal alien...
in some cases the migrant pickers might even be
a college student on Walk-About that your boss
hires for the duration of the YEARLY HARVEST
willing to work for a $1 less than you can manage on.


True, but I'm under the impression that the percentage of out-of-work citizens actually competing for those types of jobs is relatively small vs. the overall pool of Americans looking for work. Certainly some segments of job-seekers are impacted more than others, but the studies I've read/heard about show the immigrant workforce, both legal and illegal, actually has a net neutral or slightly positive effect on the job market and economy overall ... and that legalizing undocumented workers would provide additional net benefits ...
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 03:23 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Originally Posted By: Celandine
While it's probably true that a Mexican is not
very likely to steal a Corporate Lawyer's Job,
you're not taking into account that someone trying
to support a family by picking fruit might feel
a bit more pressured, esp. if that's the only
work to be found for a hundred miles of his home.

...doesn't even have to be an illegal alien...
in some cases the migrant pickers might even be
a college student on Walk-About that your boss
hires for the duration of the YEARLY HARVEST
willing to work for a $1 less than you can manage on.


True, but I'm under the impression that the percentage of out-of-work citizens actually competing for those types of jobs is relatively small vs. the overall pool of Americans looking for work. Certainly some segments of job-seekers are impacted more than others, but the studies I've read/heard about show the immigrant workforce, both legal and illegal, actually has a net neutral or slightly positive effect on the job market and economy overall ... and that legalizing undocumented workers would provide additional net benefits ...


You seem to be overlooking the fact that unemployment
in this "economic down-turn" is not restricted to The US.
Posted by: AusMac

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 03:26 PM

Overall figures do not necessarily affect the individual. Unless of course they become legal.

Then there is such as this.. An anecdotal case where farmers were overheard talking about how immigration had busted an onion harvest with helicopters and road vehicles converging on the spot..
"who is going to pick the onions unless they are illegals?"
"mechanical harvesting is not viable?"
"no way. It all has to be done by hand."

This is in a land where all illegals have to risk drowning in a leaky boat to get here.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one

True, but I'm under the impression that the percentage of out-of-work citizens actually competing for those types of jobs is relatively small vs. the overall pool of Americans looking for work. Certainly some segments of job-seekers are impacted more than others, but the studies I've read/heard about show the immigrant workforce, both legal and illegal, actually has a net neutral or slightly positive effect on the job market and economy overall ... and that legalizing undocumented workers would provide additional net benefits ...


However, I take (and agree with) your point.
even though my sig. other has been out of work
for the past 2 years, it had nothing to do with
anyone other than his flint-hearted (ex)boss.
Ted suffered a heart attack, and the bassturd
called him back early (thus ending his disability)
only to lay him off a week later so he could
cancel his insurance too. frown

That said, Ted was so highly skilled in his field
that he set the Industry ISO Standards. But
pushing 60 with a pre-existing condition has
become a death sentence.

Yeah.. I know, "Life Sux, then you die."

Anyway,
I believe there's enough work to go around in America,
if the bassturds would only stop rigging the game.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 04:29 PM


WHICH OPENS UP A WHOLE 'NOTHER CAN O' WORMS!

Why is everybody blaming Our Southern Cousins
(just as I consider Canadians our Northern Cousins)
for a lack of jobs (INDUSTRY) that they are NOT
Responsible For?

Ted's Job was ultimately shipped to CHINA!
The people should be pisssed that "PINHEAD INC."
was responsible for putting us into Crushing Debt
to finance TWO Unnecessary Wars "on the dime"
for which Pres, Obama is now forced to tap-dance
around to appease the country that owns us to
keep them from calling in the loans? eek

Now the unemployed are being manipulated into
blaming Mexico for their dire straits? WTF?

Even the greedy SOBs that used Tax Loopholes
by putting Americans out of work by opening
Sweat-Shops South of the Border grew fat while
the workers starved, and still had to take their
chances by crossing the borders...

"Rigged Game" indeed

The only justice so far is that Ted's millionaire
ex-boss who outsourced his specialized skill
overseas is in the process of losing his family
business due to the Law Suits rolling in every
day from American's suffering from the inferior
materials being implanted in their bodies. frown


* As Sam Kinison would say; *
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: AusMac
Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Originally Posted By: AusMac
Jobs are jobs.

finding work is .. finding work.

While I'd debate that jobs are all equal, I would agree that for a desperate unemployed citizen any job should be better than not earning anything at all. The question there is wether that really is true in the real world and if so, how many are unable to find *any* job at all due to the presence of illegal workers?


You do not live in the real world if you have to ask the question.

Hmmm ... most of the articles and reports regarding illegal workers I've seen (some here, here, and here) show a net neutral if not slight beneficial impact to the overall workforce and economy. Which isn't to say some segments aren't impacted (employment for males w/o a high school diploma seem to be hardest hit, for example), but the overall economy and employment appear to benefit somewhat ...

... And lest you think the answer so obvious the question needn't even be asked, even this Fox News article feels the need to present two sides of the debate ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
You seem to be overlooking the fact that unemployment
in this "economic down-turn" is not restricted to The US.

Well, the question is wether illegal workers take jobs away from American citizens, so naturally I'm restricting my discussion to that ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 05:06 PM

Originally Posted By: AusMac
Overall figures do not necessarily affect the individual. Unless of course they become legal.

Then there is such as this.. An anecdotal case where farmers were overheard talking about how immigration had busted an onion harvest with helicopters and road vehicles converging on the spot..
"who is going to pick the onions unless they are illegals?"
"mechanical harvesting is not viable?"
"no way. It all has to be done by hand."

This is in a land where all illegals have to risk drowning in a leaky boat to get here.


Right, so there's a problem that needs solving. Seems to me there are three options:

A) Seal the border; forcibly deport illegal workers.

B) Do nothing.

C) Seal the border; legalize illegal workers already here.

Obviously those are vastly simplified, but are the gists ;-)

A) Doesn't seem practical without becoming even more of a police state than we already are ...

B) Doesn't really solve anything, but is what government naturally wants to do ...

C) Seems the only option as at least US natives and newly-legal immigrants can compete on a level playing field, as opposed to employers being able to undercut the natives by exploiting a vulnerable immigrant resource ...
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 05:42 PM

[quote]as opposed to employers being able to undercut the natives by exploiting a vulnerable immigrant resource{/quote]

Ding-ding-ding! Give the man a cigar!

Crack down on the employers who hire these people at pennies on the dollar, pay them cash under the table and, thus avoid all those nasty federal and state taxes.

Why do you think that immigration "reform" is going absolutely no where? Big Bidness owns Congress!
Posted by: DLC

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/13/13 08:42 PM

Originally Posted By: MacBozo
[quote]as opposed to employers being able to undercut the natives by exploiting a vulnerable immigrant resource{/quote]

Ding-ding-ding! Give the man a cigar!

Crack down on the employers who hire these people at pennies on the dollar, pay them cash under the table and, thus avoid all those nasty federal and state taxes...

Why do you think that immigration "reform" is going absolutely no where? Big Bidness owns Congress!


Ding-ding-ding! Give the man a cigar!

EXACTLY !! That's what Germany does- the "wall" is at the employers office NOT the border... and you can't tunnel under it nor scale over it !! ...or hide 20 immigrants in your briefcase as you enter the plant !! wink

As Bill called this "Border Surge", it's a "War-hey on Jorge "! (after the GOPs "War on Drugs", War on Terror" etc)
laugh
Posted by: AusMac

Re: Great Bill Maher "New Rule" - 07/14/13 08:29 AM

Anyway, it is the problem for the USA. It isn't mine.