Fighting

Posted by: Leslie

Fighting - 06/29/13 10:52 AM

monument with monument
Posted by: steveg

Re: Fighting - 06/29/13 12:52 PM

O M F g ! grin
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Fighting - 06/29/13 01:08 PM

Good one!
Posted by: DLC

Re: Fighting - 06/29/13 06:22 PM

Well FREE Speech is FREE Speech !!

EVERY one is entitled !! grin

I'm not an atheist but it I don't like it when religious folks think they're better and have to stick THEIR religion in your face ! (Like sticking it at the Courthouse or a public school) They're not happy having it just in the Church ! I think even Jesus was more respectful and less arrogant than most of these overly religious azzholes !
Posted by: MrB

Re: Fighting - 06/29/13 06:44 PM

Just silly, if one asks me. It might be something if this was an established doctrine, but, as I understand it, it's just some blah blah words slapped together.

Like a group of atheists decide they don't like the religious groups having their doctrine always in their face so it's "hey, why don't we make a big stink and force the governments to erect our rock with some stuff on it. Oh, we need some suff. Lets see......."

Dave
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Fighting - 06/29/13 07:01 PM

You do not believe atheism is an established doctrine?
I like the words on that rock.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Fighting - 06/29/13 07:05 PM

I agree with you entirely,except for the "i'm not an atheist" part. smile
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 03:28 AM

Good for Silverman.Atheists have as much right as anyone else in life about their viewpoints.Religion is a money maker anyway.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 04:05 AM

Give me a break. You could say the same thing — word for word — about any organized religion.
Posted by: MrB

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 05:10 AM

I've no problem with their right to have a monument but how big a group do they really represent? Andin group I mean the number of individuals who have their name on a role indicating they belong to this group.

Oh, sure, there are millions who proudly claim to be atheists but have each these even tacitly indicated they support those commandments , tenants or ideas. Or is this the result of a small group of folks who want to piss off the establishment ant have the money to bring suit to get this done.

Dose this mean any group with the money can now erect their monument ? Are we to expect such from Hindus, Buddst, wicans, Free Masons, Unitarians, Muslims, Nudists?

Maybe they can cover the whole area with monument so it looks like a grave yard.

I agree in their right, but why do it

Dave
Posted by: steveg

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 05:51 AM

And why not do it? Don't like it? Don't look. Or to put it in "religious" terms, if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 08:53 AM

There are also millions who proudly claim to be Christians and I would argue they do not support the commandments, tenants or ideas of Christianity.

It's not a matter of pissing off the establishment it is showing the establishment life is diverse and and not just a one way street.

It is done to make themselves visible. Any minority knows what invisibility feels like.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 08:56 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
And why not do it? Don't like it? Don't look. Or to put it in "religious" terms, if thine eye offend thee, pluck it out.

OUCH ! laugh

Dave, that's why I don't Like ANY religious paraphernalia at ANY public structure or venue. It opens a big can of worms ! Sure why not Buddhists, Islamists, and many others like you cite. [Now the nudists might be ok ! whistle ]

Keep the religion at the places of worship or in your private homes and institutions - that's my point !!

Posted by: Leslie

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 09:07 AM

Quote:
Keep the religion at the places of worship or in your private homes and institutions - that's my point !!


Hear! Hear!

And definitely out of politics.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 09:14 AM

Actually, they prefer the name, "naturist." I'll volunteer to be the model for their "monument." shocked
Posted by: DLC

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 09:20 AM

Naturist sounds more like a tree-hugger, environmentalist type than someone naked !! But it's their call ! Naturist Colony ? crazy
Posted by: steveg

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 10:42 AM

Well said! smile
Posted by: MrB

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 11:12 AM

I've argued for years about required prayer in school. I've said that thse who support it assume the prayers that will be said wil be those of their church. We would see another tune if a non acceptable prayer is said. Like thse of the Wicca or Satenism

Best to keep it in their home or church.

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: MrB
I've argued for years about required prayer in school. I've said that thse who support it assume the prayers that will be said wil be those of their church. We would see another tune if a non acceptable prayer is said. Like thse of the Wicca or Satenism

Best to keep it in their home or church.

Dave

My Italian mom was Catholic, W.A.S.P. dad was
Southern Baptist. Although we kids were baptized
Presbyterian we were raised as Jehovah's Witness
(yup, sent to Death Camps along with the Jews...
...but I digress...)

When it came to School Prayer AND The Pledge of
Allegiance, I was allowed to simply remain silent,
and stand in respectful silence during the pledge.
No Worries. smile
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 03:11 PM

Originally Posted By: Leslie
There are also millions who proudly claim to be Christians and I would argue they do not support the commandments, tenants or ideas of Christianity.

It's not a matter of pissing off the establishment it is showing the establishment life is diverse and and not just a one way street.

It is done to make themselves visible. Any minority knows what invisibility feels like.


After all of the above, I wound up not as an atheist
but rather a Naturalist (nekkid tree-huggers ROCK! cool

...But seriously.. as an environmental activist,
I stand behind the words inscribed on the monument;
It's better to do what we can to make life on Earth
sustainable, rather than waiting for Divine Intervention

edit to add:
I think the point wasn't to pish people off, but as
Leslie pointed out, that there is an alternative, AND
that speaking out opens the door to Healthy Discussion
concerning the prejudice against NON-Religious Citizens.

IMO, much the same as the Trayvon Martin Case opens
a conversation that's long long long overdue.

Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 06:03 PM

Quote:
Like a group of atheists decide they don't like the religious groups having their doctrine always in their face so it's "hey, why don't we make a big stink and force the governments to erect our rock with some stuff on it. Oh, we need some suff. Lets see......."

You have that wrong -- you're describing those who felt the need to put the Ten Commandments on display in the first place. The atheist group sued to have that removed -- if they had their 'druthers nothing at all would be on display. If you're wondering "why do it" in the first place, ask the bible-types why they felt that need ...

Since the atheist group couldn't stop the Christian-types from putting something up, they decided to put something up of their own. So, yes, bring on the Hindus and Buddhists and Muslims -- everybody gets to express themselves. The more the merrier, right? ;-)

Quote:
I've no problem with their right to have a monument but how big a group do they really represent?

Bigger than you think, and apparently growing (especially amongst the younger set)

Quote:
Andin group I mean the number of individuals who have their name on a role indicating they belong to this group.

What, like Christians have a sign-up sheet? Is there such a thing as a card-carrying Catholic?

Quote:
Oh, sure, there are millions who proudly claim to be atheists but have each these even tacitly indicated they support those commandments , tenants or ideas.

You mean the ones that were around before the desert religions even existed? It's not as if things like "It's a bad idea to murder each other" and "Don't take other people's stuff" were invented by Moses ;-)
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 06:16 PM

Quote:
I've no problem with their right to have a monument but how big a group do they really represent?


They might be bigger than you would think... on the order of 1 in 5 Americans.

http://ontd-political.livejournal.com/10089702.html

http://www.google.com/search?client=safa...-8&oe=UTF-8
Posted by: DLC

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 07:31 PM

Yeah Sixer - good points !
Quote:
You mean the ones that were around before the desert religions even existed? It's not as if things like "It's a bad idea to murder each other" and "Don't take other people's stuff" were invented by Moses ;-)

So we invade Iraq with no provocation killing 10,000s of civilians in the process...

and let some Corporations screw everyone (take their $) because they own the politicians lock, stock & NRA Barrel.

We're really following those rules closely Today aren't we !! Can I gets an A–MEN, Brothas and Sistas ?!! laugh

Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 06/30/13 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
You mean the ones that were around before the desert religions even existed? It's not as if things like "It's a bad idea to murder each other" and "Don't take other people's stuff" were invented by Moses ;-)


The God of the Bible invented marriage. I know that because I read it on the intertubes.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 07/01/13 12:31 AM


This is almost worth signing onto TWITTER
to post THIS To Michelle Bachmann**
just to see her head Explode


**Whiney-Voiced Beach braying about
"OUR FOREFATHERS..." cry
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 07/01/13 06:54 AM

Those right wing Christians "support" Israel in expectation that Israeli intransigence will lead to the apocalypse and so to the victory of Christianity over everything else. Let's hope it's not a self-fulfilling prophecy.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Fighting - 07/01/13 07:30 AM

Actually, the Ten Commandments predate Christianity by thousands of years and they are pretty much the universal basis for all laws concerning human behavior.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 07/01/13 08:09 AM

Code of Hammurabi much? smile
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 07/01/13 10:01 AM


It just ticks me off that she brays that phrase
"OUR FOUNDING FATHERS" cry
every time she can wedge it between two issues,
without having any clue wtf she's talking about!

I burns my biscuits to recall how many times she's
been shown that 'The Founding Fathers' hadn't ever
included, hinted toward, or worse expressly said
the exact opposite of what ever's been pounded into
her pea brain in Tea-Party Summer Get-A-Way Camp.

It makes me crazy to think about people like that
making laws for the entire country based on B.S.!
Posted by: MrB

Re: Fighting - 07/01/13 09:28 PM

That is true, in fact taken generally the Ten Commandments are not bad template for living.

Rules or even as suggestions they arnt bad. If one says, not, then I ask if one thinks its a good idea to do the opposite of them.

Thou will create artificial images and worship them as gods
Thou will have many of these images to worship
Thou will constantly make proclamations but then not stand by them
Thou will work constantly and not take time off for rest and contemplation
Thou will give your parents hell, as they are a couple of crap heads
Thou will kill others in your community when ever it will benefit you
Thou will have sex with others when ever notion comes to you
Thou will steal from others in your community if they have things you want.
Thou will lie to make your life easier.
Thou will covet what your neighbor has.

If one takes the concept of "god" loosely then the other commands are not too bad.

But, also, taken generally, the proclamations on the Athiest stone aren not bad things to e corporate also. I certainly wouldn't proclaim to do the opposite of them either.



Dave
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 07:08 AM

How about this:

Thou wilt have no gods cause there ain't no such thing.
Thou wilt make whatever images thou wantest and recognize they're images thou hast made.
Thou wilt keep thy proclamations to a minimum.
Thou wilt rest when thou art tired.
Thou wilt give thy parents hell--because otherwise there will be nothing new under the sun.
Thou wilt kill no one, for any reason, including judicially.
Thou wilt scratch the sexual itch as thou wilt.
Thou wilt have no private property.
Thou wilt tell the truth, recognizing that the truth is rarely pure and never simple.
Since neither thou nor thy neighbor hath any property, thou canst covet nothing.

I've always thought that the Judeo-Christo-Islamic god was way too much into private property to be a real god.
Posted by: MrB

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 10:55 AM

On the private property issue, how would that work. Would all property be available for use by anyone and everyone?

Like if I'm at a restaurant eating a hamburger and another comes in he can eat my hamburger also?

Sounds interesting

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 11:02 AM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52

I've always thought that the Judeo-Christo-Islamic god was way too much into private property to be a real god.


The "Hunter-Gather" gene gone hay-wire.
Once it mutated into a "Grasp-Hoard" mentality
it morphed into the root of all evil.

Not healthy that "Capitalism" trumps every
other value & virtue.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 12:32 PM

Common property is a hard thing to envision--and no doubt it would be impossible to have such a system. But historically speaking there is lots of "common" property. The Boston Common, for instance, is common property from the beginning. Once upon a time it functioned like common ground did back in England, so that everyone in the community had equal right to use it. And I realize that if I plant crop on a patch of ground my natural response is to say that the crop is "mine." But ideally, if all of the crops on all of the common land is equally available to all of the community, then there should be no real impetus to assert that "my" crop is peculiarly "mine."

I know--purely fanciful stuff. But my point is that a religious perspective on things probably shouldn't simply acquiesce in the idea or property. You know that money is the root of all evil, but the root of that evil is the idea of property, for which money is a symbolic substitute. So a religion that takes property for granted is playing on the side of the devil.

Just sayin'.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 01:29 PM


Among some tribes of Native American cultures, they not
only shared common property to the last morsel of food
taken in the hunt, but they considered the greatest among
them, was the one who GAVE the most in every sense of the
word, from the protecting of the young, aged, and infirm,
to the act of "gifting" (Potlaching) wherein the entire
premise was the redistribution of possessions or wealth.

Within tribes, everything revolves around the Honor System

You talk about "Commons"?!?
The Native Americans had absolutely no concept of "Fences"
...until we brought that particular 'snake into the garden'.

We hopped off the boat and said, "Mind if we live here?"
they said, "Sure. Why Not?"
They migrated to the next seasonal campsite... and when
they returned the following year, we claimed that we were
justified in killing them for stepping foot on "OUR PROPERTY"

WTF?

yar, Michelle, let's hear it for
"OUR FOREFATHERS" cry

watevah
Posted by: MrB

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 06:22 PM

What our ancestors did in "claiming" this land is not much if any different than what had been done for ages. Even before the Jude's-Christian era.

But then, it's our forefathers so we take notice.

Dave
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 07:32 PM

It's called right by conquest. In other words, might makes right.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Fighting - 07/02/13 08:08 PM

Thou wilt thine lettuce....
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fighting - 07/03/13 06:07 AM


yar, the only difference is
that now-a-days we're capitalizing
on distributing our wilted lettuce to the
masses; YOUR TAX DOLLARS AT WORK
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Fighting - 07/03/13 08:18 AM

Wilted lettuce, I discovered when we lived in south-central IL, is a delicacy. Who knew!
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Fighting - 07/05/13 03:20 PM

I think the whole thing is nothing more than excuse to get more "likes" on their FB & Twitter accounts.