Marketing & Selling Guns to Children

Posted by: Celandine

Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/03/13 05:27 PM

.
Lawrence O'Donnell

Marketing & Selling Guns to Children
a five year old kid who killed his two year old sister frown

Alternate YouTUBE Link
MSNBC is impossible today
.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/03/13 06:36 PM

Hyperbole for hits. Sorry I clicked.

He bypassed the real problem, the responsibility of the parents to keep the guns away from the children and stay in charge.

Here's an example of responsible parents.

End of story.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/03/13 08:03 PM

Hyperbole? I dunno bout that. There 2 incidents this past 3 weeks where a child under 6 shot a sibling to death with a gun from their own home.
Disgusting and shameful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/kentucky-shooting_n_3189828.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

http://www.ktuu.com/news/mountain-village-girl-5-fatally-shot-by-brother-043013,0,4401327.story?track=rss

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/new-jersey-child-shooting/index.html
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/03/13 10:12 PM

Originally Posted By: Jim_
Hyperbole for hits. Sorry I clicked.

He bypassed the real problem, the responsibility of the parents to keep the guns away from the children and stay in charge.

Here's an example of responsible parents.

End of story.



You're mistaken.

I hadn't said "Guns AROUND Kids...
...I'd said "Guns FOR CHILDREN."


Not surprisingly,
The "Crickett" Site
has pulled down their WebSite,



however, traces of Gun Powder
still remain lingering in the air...
.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 03:04 AM

As always it's the one or two extreme stories that color the whole wall. But this is an issue that honestly makes me ashamed of my trade. It's no different than the way the tobacco industry used to market to kids (remember Joe Camel?). There's no denying that that the earlier you can convert a consumer, the more loyalty you're likely to reap. So let's start promoting kid-sized chain saws, Barbie arc welding kits, toddler-sized Lear jets...

I agree with you that at such young ages, it's the parents' job to teach their kids responsibility and safety, and to monitor their activity like white on rice. But still... There's got to be more practical limits on stuff like this.
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 04:04 AM

Keep promoting the NRA and these killings will never cease to stop.To bad someone does not do away with La Pierre.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 05:43 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Hyperbole? I dunno bout that. There 2 incidents this past 3 weeks where a child under 6 shot a sibling to death with a gun from their own home.
Disgusting and shameful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/kentucky-shooting_n_3189828.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

http://www.ktuu.com/news/mountain-village-girl-5-fatally-shot-by-brother-043013,0,4401327.story?track=rss

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/new-jersey-child-shooting/index.html


Rum must have been kicking in..lol. I mean to say there were 3 incidents.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 07:27 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Hyperbole? I dunno bout that. There 2 incidents this past 3 weeks where a child under 6 shot a sibling to death with a gun from their own home.
Disgusting and shameful.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/04/30/kentucky-shooting_n_3189828.html?ncid=edlinkusaolp00000009

http://www.ktuu.com/news/mountain-village-girl-5-fatally-shot-by-brother-043013,0,4401327.story?track=rss

http://www.cnn.com/2013/04/09/us/new-jersey-child-shooting/index.html


Rum must have been kicking in..lol. I mean to say there were 3 incidents.


Easy to do
when the same story
is splashed all over the place.

On the other hand there are more kid on kid
killings, accidentally & otherwise than most people
are aware of.

2 kids I used to play with whenever we visited my
Dad's people in the suburbs of Birmingham parted
company when one took the top of the others head
off while doing what we were all too familiar with
them doing, playing "bang-bang" shoot'em up all day
every day with toy guns.

I was back in Jersey at the time, but my aunt related
the story to us during one of our last conversations.

Don't ask me why at some juncture they picked up
two guns (as opposed to"Rifles") that had always
been in the closet... one was a Civil War musket,
the old single shot ram-rod, pre-rifling affairs
...the other a shotgun. One of them pointed the
musket at the other and pulled the trigger......
...well, I'll leave the rest to your imagination.

On another note,
I've had 2 uncles shot to death, one in 'Jersey
the other in Birmingham... one was gang related
the other fighting over woman.

I'll leave it to you to figure out which was which.
Posted by: carp

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 02:07 PM

La Pierre ? ?

I don't think he is the problem - its really NRA membership = that needs some tweaking.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 02:21 PM

Polls of NRA membership says that they do not agree with their leadership.
Posted by: carp

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 02:54 PM

Well they can vote him out - even if its under a gun laugh They can disagree all they want , other wise it means absolutely nothing.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 04:18 PM

Any parent who buys their child a gun should be charged with child abuse. Period.
Buying a gun for a child is so far off the map of responsible parenting it deserves jail time.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 07:32 PM


+1

The kid in that picture is 3 YEARS OLD fer cry sake!

I re-hosted it, but it's taken from the last link
under the picture. Check out some of the comments
of the Proud Parents. eek
Posted by: MrB

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 07:43 PM

The only thing I'm going to say.

I think giving a child a gun is fine...........

BUT

giving him/her a gun is not the same as giving him a toy. Not like giving her a doll and telling her "go off and play". I would say that those parents ho do this , know this. They know what the gun is. It certainly is not a toy, though it is lots of fun.

Compare it to giving a teen a car. Many times parents give their teen a car to relieve themselves of responsibility . They now don't have to drive him everywhere. Those with teens know that they are active and have to be driven constantly, it seems. Thus, with his having his own car, it gives the parent more freedom.

Giving a gun, no matter what age, is just the opposite . It is putting more burden on the parent for responsibility. He needs to supervise the child each and every time the child has it. And not just be in the house or even the room but , right there beside the child when he uses it. It's not like a fishing rod where each of them stand on the bank casting and reeling in fish. He has to give that child undivided attention. Then when the session is over, secure the gun.

Any object that can injure a child needs to be secure. All of us who raised children know what "child proofing" a home is. Meds, knives, ropes, electrical cords and outlets, tools, remotes, computers, trinkets, stairways, stove controls need to be secured. Guns are no different.

We don't let kids play with any of the above . But accidents do occur. We, as parents strive to watch our kids in all things. We don't let them play In the front yard with cars zipping by. We don't let them play near a swimming pool, or climb trees, or run around the mall, or be in the yard when the grass is being mowed, or ride on the mower, play sword fight with sticks, or use sharp scissors, or play with matches, use the barbecue , or sit in our laps to steer the car. Use the power saws. All of these activities can lead to accidents. Using Guns can also

But when accidents occur, and they will, we don't ban fronts yards, or ban swimming pools, or trees, or ban malls, or lawn mowers, or scissors, or matches, or ban barbecues, or cars or power saws. All of these are useful to many people though not everyone.

It's about responsibility

Dave
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/04/13 10:24 PM

Quote:
I think giving a child a gun is fine.

We are worlds apart.
After those words, I cannot respect any further commentary.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/05/13 12:40 AM


Would that all parents were as responsible as yourself.

They're not.
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/05/13 03:42 AM

This new president that is going to be the new leader sounds like a real obstinate person as i heard him talk at the convention on the internet.Most of the members do want back round checks I read.
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/05/13 03:45 AM

These parents should have some kind of psychological counseling regarding this unfortunate situation they are confronted with.Dammit NO More Guns!
Posted by: steveg

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/05/13 03:55 AM

Really? crazy
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/05/13 04:09 AM

Originally Posted By: MrB
The only thing I'm going to say.

I think giving a child a gun is fine...........

BUT

giving him/her a gun is not the same as giving him a toy. Not like giving her a doll and telling her "go off and play". I would say that those parents ho do this , know this. They know what the gun is. It certainly is not a toy, though it is lots of fun.

Compare it to giving a teen a car. Many times parents give their teen a car to relieve themselves of responsibility . They now don't have to drive him everywhere. Those with teens know that they are active and have to be driven constantly, it seems. Thus, with his having his own car, it gives the parent more freedom.

Giving a gun, no matter what age, is just the opposite . It is putting more burden on the parent for responsibility. He needs to supervise the child each and every time the child has it. And not just be in the house or even the room but , right there beside the child when he uses it. It's not like a fishing rod where each of them stand on the bank casting and reeling in fish. He has to give that child undivided attention. Then when the session is over, secure the gun.

Any object that can injure a child needs to be secure. All of us who raised children know what "child proofing" a home is. Meds, knives, ropes, electrical cords and outlets, tools, remotes, computers, trinkets, stairways, stove controls need to be secured. Guns are no different.

We don't let kids play with any of the above . But accidents do occur. We, as parents strive to watch our kids in all things. We don't let them play In the front yard with cars zipping by. We don't let them play near a swimming pool, or climb trees, or run around the mall, or be in the yard when the grass is being mowed, or ride on the mower, play sword fight with sticks, or use sharp scissors, or play with matches, use the barbecue , or sit in our laps to steer the car. Use the power saws. All of these activities can lead to accidents. Using Guns can also

But when accidents occur, and they will, we don't ban fronts yards, or ban swimming pools, or trees, or ban malls, or lawn mowers, or scissors, or matches, or ban barbecues, or cars or power saws. All of these are useful to many people though not everyone.

It's about responsibility

Dave


[censored] crazy NRA is going too far.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/04/nra-speakers-advice-keep-a-gun-in-your-childs-room/
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 03:32 AM

Keep having more guns on the street. Soon the U.S. will be like the wild west. Sad.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 05:59 AM

Whatcha mean soon !! wink

LOL !! laugh
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 12:22 PM

Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 03:40 PM

Well, now we have a fully functioning, 3-D printed gun that shoots real bullets. Just saw it on PBS Newshour. Also a 3-D printed multi-bullet cartridge.

So much for background checks.
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 03:44 PM

And they are distributing the CAD file to anyone who wants to download it.
Nothing good can come from this.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 06:08 PM

Yep lots of difference from a cap pistol, and a 38 or 45 !! eek

Never heard of someone killed by caps !! crazy

and subliminally with a Mattel or other cap pistol - you know it's "play" not real !

Accidentally shoot your best friend - no problem a Billy Crystal "DO over !!'

the other - well - "Do time !"
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 06:14 PM



'nother unsupervised youngster
Posted by: MrB

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 08:49 PM

I can't find anything on how accurate it was or if it could be fired twice even. All we really know s that it "fired" the one round. I'm taking his word that the cartridge even had a bullet in it.

It's certainly a long way off from a fully functional firearm as we know it. Not like the ones they show in the lead up to the short demonstration.

Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/06/13 08:54 PM

I found one also. But mine happens more often but you can see how little press it gets.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/hag...hild-87119.html

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 01:41 AM

Seriously!

Where is the line
between an On-Line Bomb Making Course
and these idiots who allow this shyte into the wild?

AGAIN, these idiots are ruining on-line privacy for the
majority of people casually accessing the internet.


Brings back memories of my 3 years in Art School:
Every year like clock-work some newbie would think
he was a geniarse by "firing-up" in the rear stairwell.

The staff had a very unique fix for the infraction;
they'd have the janitor splash around industrial-
strength ammonia to mask the smell... sending us
all running from class to class holding their breath
and gasping for air for the rest of the day!
____________ sick sick sick sick sick sick sick
Problem solved:
Any time some fool attempted to toke-up, the rest
of us would do whatever was necessary to talk-some-
sense-them.

A Self-Policing System. WORKED LIKE A CHARM! laugh

Nuff Sed.

Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 04:31 AM

The only real benefit of the printer gun is that it's plastic and can be easily smuggled. I can make a better gun from stuff in my shed.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 05:28 AM

The material used in these 3D printers is very fragile — even the metals that can be used in some printers. One shot can be enough to kill, but the duty cycle for one of these contraptions is probably less than 10 rounds. Accuracy is another issue. As detailed as the output can be, precise machining and metal finishing are what makes a gun more efficient and reliable.

I think these things are a potential problem, but years away from being as much a threat as conventional firearms. And stealth relates to metal detectors — not Xray or imaging systems.
Posted by: MrB

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 08:44 AM

Exactly. I have been trying to think of benefits , if that's the word , to a hijacker within of these things. Getting it on a plane might be easy but with just one shot and the need to be quite close.

Hijacking a taxi, maybe

Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 08:58 AM

On another forum where they know a lot about these things, it was mentioned that , though he fired it once with a .22 (now that I think, it might not have been with a .22 long rifle cartridge, but a .22 short he used, but he did then fire a .380

Then he changed barrels and fired a 5.7x28 cartridge which destroyed the thing
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:57_size.jpg

The plastic as is now just won't hold up.


Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 12:26 PM

Originally Posted By: MrB
Exactly. I have been trying to think of benefits , if that's the word , to a hijacker within of these things. Getting it on a plane might be easy but with just one shot and the need to be quite close.

Hijacking a taxi, maybe

Dave


Dude! Sometimes all it takes is a Box-Cutter. frown
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 12:33 PM

So if you can print a gun--and I have no doubt that the thing will be fragile now, but will "progress" to become pretty robust--what happens to any gun law? Want a gun? Don't go to the gun store or to the gun show or even on-line. Just print it.

Technology is a very sharp two-sided sword is all Im saying.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 12:36 PM


Thanx
That's good to know...
my BF was conjecturing what the lines
would be like when you're trying to catch a flight!

eek ...if you think it's a PItA removing your shoes
how long will it take to hand search all the bags? cry -come on!!!


Posted by: steveg

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 12:47 PM

Most copiers have built-in systems that prevent same size and/or color copying of currency. I'm thinking it's possible to program recognition software that would block the printing of objects that resemble certain firearms parts. If, as is the case with copiers, that function can be integrated (and hack-proofed) into a 3D printer's drivers, it could at least deter the process.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Most copiers have built-in systems that prevent same size and/or color copying of currency. I'm thinking it's possible to program recognition software that would block the printing of objects that resemble certain firearms parts. If, as is the case with copiers, that function can be integrated (and hack-proofed) into a 3D printer's drivers, it could at least deter the process.


What are you trying to do--kill the 2nd Amendment???!!!



Just in case, ya know.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 03:53 PM

Originally Posted By: MrB
I found one also. But mine happens more often but you can see how little press it gets.

http://www.wjla.com/articles/2013/04/hag...hild-87119.html

Dave
Believe me, the death of any child is a tragedy for me, but if you check the child mortality stats for firearms, they are by no means the top killer. Here's one link but you all can google it and get more recent ones if you dispute that one, they all are close in numbers. The rates have dropped in the recent years but autos still kill at around 3x the rate for preteens than firearms. Unintentional firearm fatalities like the one in this thread starter are 2% of auto accidents for preteens.

That's why I say this is all hype for the ant-gun crowd. Why not lobby for stricter seat belt/restraint laws for pre-teens too and bring that into the national spotlight.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 05:47 PM

I think that there have been great strides in the last decades in regards to auto safety... better seat belts, ABS, stricter child seat laws, crumple zones, reinforced doors, airbags.
Same with drinking and driving... more awareness, stricter laws, free rides from Taxis, designated drivers, organizations like MADD and such. There has been a monumental effort and failure when it come to drugs.

What have we seen in the weapons arena that has made great strides? Trigger locks.
And I don't own a gun... so anyone jump in with other efforts, inventions, laws.
And, mind you... this is the one that was designed to kill.... unlike autos.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 08:41 PM

I always have a hard time accepting the equivalence of car deaths and death by guns. Sure, there are more deaths by car accidents than by guns. More cars than guns, for one thing, used for more person-hours by far than are guns, and so the greater number of deaths is not surprising.

But there's another thing that bothers me about the comparison. The purpose of cars is not to kill. And yes, I'm perfectly aware that some nut can use a car deliberately to run someone down, or can put explosives in it and blow up buildings and people. But that's not the purpose of a car. The purpose of a gun is to kill. I know--like cars, guns can be used for purposes that they weren't designed for. Target shooting is fun. I've done it myself and enjoyed it. But that's not the purpose of a gun, no more than blowing up the Murrah Building was the purpose of the vehicle that those freaks used to kill so many people.

The killing of kids by kids is accidental. But the function of the gun in those cases is not accidental. They, the guns, are doing exactly what they are designed to do.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/07/13 11:14 PM

Quote:
But the function of the gun in those cases is not accidental. They, the guns, are doing exactly what they are designed to do.

Correct.
The comparison is a red herring.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/08/13 02:26 AM


zat mean
the 'ban the bathtubs' rally
has been called off as well? frown

Posted by: MrB

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/08/13 09:24 PM

I suppose one can make claim that the predecessor of automobiles was created to kill. At least it was created for use in war. The war chariot.

Dave
Posted by: Leslie

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/08/13 09:56 PM

Really?
How far back to we have to go to make sense of nonsense?
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 04:09 AM


+1

Yup...
That was a reach
as was the bathtub drowning. smirk
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 04:09 AM

Stop manufacturing guns especially marketed to children like the Daisey model rifles.Children do not need this!
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 05:29 AM

OK!!!! We're on it!!!!!
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 07:17 AM

And the tank is made in the image and likeness of the gun.

Frankly, I don't see your point.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 07:33 AM

Quote:
I suppose one can make claim that the predecessor of automobiles was created to kill. At least it was created for use in war. The war chariot.

One could, but what would be the point? Even if one accepts the questionable claim that the chariot had no other useful function than to kill, that would just be an excellent reason to be thankful we don't have chariots around anymore ...
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 09:31 AM

Not pointed at you #6, just doing the Quick Reply.

Here's my point on the hyperbole over these tragic incidents, and people taking advantage of them by using them to advance their agendas.

Gun homicides, violence down sharply in the past 20 years, contrary to all of the doomsayers that think it's getting worse and we're going to hell in a holster. As a society we are making great strides, keep the faith people.

It's just the availability of information 24/7 that makes it looks worse nowadays.

We want information… information… information #6. smirk
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 09:46 AM

Quote:
We want information… information… information #6.

You won't get it! ;-)
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 09:59 AM

Data can be cut in so many different ways. It's true that gun homicides are down. It's also true that gun ownership is down. Even for presumably gun-favoring Republican households it's down:



So cause and effect? Correlation? Mere coincidence?

I don't have a clue!
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/09/13 07:12 PM

Originally Posted By: six_of_one
Quote:
We want information… information… information #6.

You won't get it! ;-)

"...by hook or by crook..."
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Marketing & Selling Guns to Children - 05/10/13 04:03 AM

Originally Posted By: Jim_
Not pointed at you #6, just doing the Quick Reply.

Here's my point on the hyperbole over these tragic incidents, and people taking advantage of them by using them to advance their agendas.

Gun homicides, violence down sharply in the past 20 years, contrary to all of the doomsayers that think it's getting worse and we're going to hell in a holster. As a society we are making great strides, keep the faith people.

It's just the availability of information 24/7 that makes it looks worse nowadays.

We want information… information… information #6. smirk


That's good news. But no reason to start coasting... push even harder for lower numbers.