A historic crossroad for Israel, too…

Posted by: katlpablo

A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 07:27 AM

… not only for all the Arab world, specially for Tunisia, Egypt, Bahrain, Yemen. Jordan, Libya, Algeria, and even Morocco, but for non-Arab, non-Sunni Iran, too.


Once again Mr. Avnery shows us part his broad vision for peace and justice in the Middle East the likes of which —as far as i have read—, only he has been able to mould (mold) and then put into words.

It would certainly be beautiful if, in Israel, the Israeli people were lifted by a similar spirit of democracy and justice as the one that seemingly travels these days through the Arab world in search of renewal and in defiance of the old regimes and the old interrelations.

I can dream, right? After all, the Arabs are doing it and it's (hopefully) changing the world for the better.



So here it is, another one of my promoted articles…


February 19, 2011
The Genie is out of the Bottle
By Uri Avnery

[…]

WHEN OUR Zionist fathers decided to set up a safe haven in Palestine, they had the choice between two options:

They could appear in West Asia as European conquerors, who see themselves as a bridgehead of the “white” man and as masters of the “natives”, like the Spanish conquistadores and the Anglo-Saxon colonialists in America. That is what the crusaders did in their time.

The second way was to see themselves as an Asian people returning to their homeland, the heirs to the political and cultural traditions of the Semitic world, ready to take part, with the other peoples of the region, in the war of liberation from European exploitation.

[…

…]
Posted by: Mactico

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 01:31 PM

You're more lost than the son of Lindbergh.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 01:43 PM

Yeah, I mean Israel's slightly different because the people are generally inseparable from the 'government' and because it's not a state... that's right, mainly because you can't have a state by UDI and because no state has moving borders.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 02:44 PM

Quote:
because it's not a state
Don't forget to pay your dues this month.

Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 03:03 PM

Originally Posted By: Mactico
You're more lost than the son of Lindbergh.
Wasn't he abducted and killed?
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 03:13 PM

You have no vision ! laugh

You're as blind as blind is that alley you walk through ! laugh
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 03:40 PM

But…
the Israelis can vote, no?


It should be easier for them to influence their government to put in effect more democratic policies with respect to, for example, the settlements.

Obviously some people cannot recognize that the actual Israel/Palestine interrelationship doesn't lead to anything good.

I search and hope that a newer kind of Jewish Israeli people exist.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 03:46 PM

Well German is correct - laugh

Israel is not a conquering power, are not invading armies and certainly not a colonial nation.

Anyway.
It was the UN that gave Israel the right to be a State - Israelis agreed - Palestinians did not <- hence the problems.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 05:05 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Well German is correct - laugh
What German? I don't get it: ally // alley ???

Originally Posted By: carp
Israel is not a conquering power, are not invading armies and certainly not a colonial nation.
What is it? An occupying nation? A category in itself?

Originally Posted By: carp
Anyway.
It was the UN that gave Israel the right to be a State - Israelis agreed - Palestinians did not <- hence the problems.
You keep repeating this "analysis" every time the Palestinian/Israeli conflict comes up. Just so you know, there are some people here that simply don't agree with that simplification.

You have had that interminable "analytic" discussion 17 to 1001 times in this forum already…

Apart from that, you say the UN that "gave Israel the right". The UN may have upheld the Israeli people's right to a state.

Meanwhile, i'll fall in line with macbeemer's sig;
"The Bill of Rights doesn't grant us our rights, it merely enumerates them."
Posted by: Lea

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/19/11 05:28 PM



"It was the UN that gave Israel the right to be a State"

That and global guilt over one country's sins, born out of the entire world turning a blind eye for as long as it could get away with looking away. So it goes. The nature of the human beast never ceases to amaze. The desire to erase a nation's sins by assuming some kind of new blown superiority amazes, too. And I'm not talking Israel ~ Which wouldn't exist without the aforesaid stuff. History ~ It's a bitch, huh?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 04:17 AM

Quote:
It was the UN that gave Israel the right to be a State

UN Resolution 181? That was the 'Jewish State' not Israel.

km
Posted by: Mactico

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 05:40 AM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
It was the UN that gave Israel the right to be a State

UN Resolution 181? That was the 'Jewish State' not Israel.

km
A JEWISH STATE IN THE LAND OF ISRAEL.
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 05:51 AM

Forget it, German. The only state he recognizes is the state of bigotry. Reasoning with this putz is like pissing into the wind.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 06:05 AM

Quite the wave of unrest rippling through the Gulf region lately. Looks like countries with small minority sects ruling over larger sects are potentially in deep trouble. These conditions could significantly change things for the world outside their borders - the US 5th fleet anchored in Bahrain, for example.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 06:17 AM

That's right... like the United States of America is in the land of America and England is in the land of Great Britain in all cases defined by designated borders. Israel goes back to a self-declaration of independence of 14 May 1948 not Resolution 181 - which is why it's not a state.

km
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 08:17 AM

Quote:
which is why it's not a state.

What makes a State a State? It certainly doesn't depend exclusively on UN approval, since States existed before that body was even conceived. Regardless, if a state is defined as having designated, internationally recognized borders, Israel has those -- here's even a pdf map from the UN cartographic section showing those borders ...

Historically, States' borders move all the time -- via wars, mutual agreement, sale/bartering, etc. Certainly a perpetually static border cannot be considered a requirement for legitimacy ...

If your argument is that if any part of a State's borders are in contention then it isn't a State at all, several billion people around the world are going to be quite surprised to find themselves (for better or worse) without a country ...
Posted by: Mactico

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 08:42 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Forget it, German. The only state he recognizes is the state of bigotry. Reasoning with this putz is like pissing into the wind.

I know, I know but one last think before I am going to enjoy this sunny Sunday.

Mr.K, why the Palestinians don't want to recognize Israel as a Jewish State only the STATE OF ISRAEL
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 09:06 AM

Yes states existed before the UN but the Charter now provides a framework for international relations in that respect. Nothing in the Charter allows for the creation of a state by UDI but it does allow for admission of a state by Resolution of the General Assembly. Resolution 181 describes the borders of the Jewish State and maps which contradict it are of no legal effect.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 09:17 AM

I think the problem lies perhaps with Keymaker's state of mind.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 10:09 AM

Quote:
Yes states existed before the UN but the Charter now provides a framework for international relations in that respect.


You agree with this Charter but not the European Court of Human Rights. Nice to be able to pick whatever documents suit your needs and call them valid-all else, be damned.

Thanks for the Sunday snicker.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 10:36 AM

Well rulings of the European Court of Human Rights in Strasbourg are not recognised as binding in this country because the UK is sovereign. We have however along with the community of all nations agreed to observe the Charter of the United Nations which provides the only method in modern times by which a state can come into existence - which is why Israel is not a state.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 03:07 PM

Big Six,

The problem with boarders goes way way back to the Ottoman Era, After that was WWII.

A complete mess.

The UN came in after and some how decided to draw new boarders - and its not just a problem with the middle east either.

Solution.
Disband the UN, their worthless anyway.
Have counties negotiate their own borders? ?
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 03:39 PM

Quote:
but it does allow for admission of a state by Resolution of the General Assembly.

If UN membership is your criterion for legally defining a State, I would refer you in this particular case to:

273 (III). Admission of Israel to membership in the United Nations

An undertaking effected by precisely the method you describe above ...
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 03:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Mactico
Originally Posted By: steveg
Forget it, German. The only state he recognizes is the state of bigotry. Reasoning with this putz is like pissing into the wind.

[…]

Mr.K, why the Palestinians don't want to recognize Israel as a Jewish State only the STATE OF ISRAEL
Germán (?) …

About
“The State of Israel, the Nation-State of the Jewish people”

Taken from our previous discussion at:
Re: Airport Security
http://forums.applecentral.com/ubbthreads.php/posts/543465

Originally Posted By: katlpablo
Originally Posted By: padmavyuha
As a sidenote: not everyone who is Israeli is Jewish.
I believe that your sidenote is very necessary since, apparently, many people —including many in Israel— have difficulty to understand the fact and its consequences.

[…]

[…] Here's a quote from a recent article by the Israeli peace platform "Gush Shalom" leader Uri Avnery:

"But the Knesset is about to enact a law that demands from every non-Jew who desires Israeli citizenship to swear allegiance to “The State of Israel, the Nation-State of the Jewish people”. It seems that our benighted law-makers do not see anything questionable about this."[emphasis by katlpablo]
From The State of Bla-Bla-Bla 16/10/10

[…]

And a few posts further down, about The State of Bla-Bla-Bla article, on the same thread:
Re: Airport Security
http://forums.applecentral.com/ubbthreads.php/posts/543554

Originally Posted By: katlpablo
[…] my post and Avnery's article which are about the project by the Israeli parliament —the Knesset— to enact a law that requires from every person —Jewish or non-Jewish— who desires Israeli citizenship to swear allegiance to “The State of Israel, the Nation-State of the Jewish people”.

If we imagine that new citizens of the US had to swear allegiance to "The Constitution of the United States, the Nation-State of the Christian people" it would seem —to say the least—, strange, apart from contradictory since the Constitution guarantees freedom of religion not a Nation-State for the Christians.

Avnery —to point out the clumsiness of the Israeli idea— suggests that if the US were to enact a law like the one Israel proposes to enact, ([let us substitute] "of the Jewish people" with for example "of the Christian people") the new law could even be understood as if it proposed that the US would be the nation-state of all Christians in the world (or in the galaxy, for that matter!).

Avnery uses the example to show the undemocratic space that could open up in Israel in enacting such law, since not all Israelis are Jewish.

This is why i welcome here and in a previous post padmavyuha's sidenote: "not everyone who is Israeli is Jewish."…
Posted by: Mactico

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/20/11 05:55 PM

Ury Avnery is your only Encyclopedia to consult about all your anti-israel posts?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 01:18 AM

You're quite right that the name 'Israel' is officially recognised by that Resolution but only with the borders described in Resolution 181 as the 5th link makes clear.

km
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 02:31 AM

Originally Posted By: Mactico
Ury Avnery is your only Encyclopedia to consult about all your anti-israel posts?
Encyclopedia? laugh

Here's another Encyclopedia you can consult:

World-renowned public intellectual, MIT Professor Emeritus of Linguistics, U.S.A. disident, Noam Chomsky.


February 17, 2011
"Democracy Uprising" in the USA?

VideoPart 1
“Democracy Uprising” in the U.S.A.?: Noam Chomsky
on
Wisconsin’s Resistance to Assault on Public Sector, the
Obama-Sanctioned Crackdown on Activists, and the
Distorted Legacy of Ronald Reagan.

VideoPart 2
“Democracy Uprising” in the U.S.A.?: Noam Chomsky
on
Civil Rights,
Obama,
Latin America, and the
History of the U.S. in the Middle East.

shocked Hurry-up !

laugh
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:27 AM

Or selling toilet paper in a diarrhea ward.That is KM for you
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:28 AM

KM What do you have against the Jewish State of Israel?
Posted by: Mactico

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:43 AM

Originally Posted By: katlpablo
Originally Posted By: Mactico
Ury Avnery is your only Encyclopedia to consult about all your anti-israel posts?
Encyclopedia? laugh

Here's another Encyclopedia you can consult:

World-renowned public intellectual, MIT Professor Emeritus of Linguistics, U.S.A. disident, Noam Chomsky

February 17, 2011
"Democracy Uprising" in the USA?

VideoPart 1
“Democracy Uprising” in the U.S.A.?: Noam Chomsky
on
Wisconsin’s Resistance to Assault on Public Sector, the
Obama-Sanctioned Crackdown on Activists, and the
Distorted Legacy of Ronald Reagan.

VideoPart 2
“Democracy Uprising” in the U.S.A.?: Noam Chomsky
on
Civil Rights,
Obama,
Latin America, and the
History of the U.S. in the Middle East.

shocked Hurry-up !

laugh



Can't find any comment about 200 people killed in Libya, can you help me?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:48 AM

Moving borders and its perpetration of other serious illegalities in defence thereof.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:57 AM

My idea of a wet dream is: Israel invades GB with totally gay forces — all married to each other (same sex, of course) — and they take km hostage after trampling his little "garden" and force him to march at the head of a Gay Pride parade! laugh
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 06:29 AM

km might feel glad
finally out, in the light -
a parade queen, too!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 06:41 AM

You two guys are both so full of cr@p I'm beginning to think you must be... together. laugh

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 07:29 AM

Um... I believe you told me, in another thread, to "dream on". So I'm just telling you my dreams, Honey. And Max & Me, well we are together. In our sympathy for you, you poor, denial-drive sot.

laugh right back atcha, Snookums.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 07:32 AM

Quote:
You're quite right that the name 'Israel' is officially recognised by that Resolution


Actually, it specifically recognizes the State of Israel:


"Having received the report of the Security Council on the application of Israel for membership in the United Nations,1/

Noting that, in the judgment of the Security Council, Israel is a peace-loving State and is able and willing to carry out the obligations contained in the Charter,

Noting that the Security Council has recommended to the General Assembly that it admit Israel to membership in the United Nations,

Noting furthermore the declaration by the State of Israel that it "unreservedly accepts the obligations of the United Nations Charter and undertakes to honour them from the day when it becomes a Member of the United Nations",2/

Recalling its resolutions of 29 November 1947 3/ and 11 December 1948 4/ and taking note of the declarations and explanations made by the representative of the Government of Israel 5/ before the ad hoc Political Committee in respect of the implementation of the said resolutions,

The General Assembly,

Acting in discharge of its functions under Article 4 of the Charter and rule 125 of its rules of procedure,

1. Decides that Israel is a peace-loving State which accepts the obligations contained in the Charter and is able and willing to carry out those obligations;

2. Decides to admit Israel to membership in the United Nations."



The language could not be more clear.

Wether or not Israel has actually lived-up to the assessments made in that resolution, or has indeed acted in accordance with its obligations under the UN charter and resolutions is another matter entirely -- but I don't think the existence of Israel as a State is really debatable if you're using UN membership as the criterion for Statehood ...
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 07:45 AM

Isreal's a state
just as key's a barrister
no more need be said
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 07:46 AM

I don't think anyone cares what the Jewish State is called but of course the question arises as to its boundaries. In my opinion states depending on a UN resolution for recognition exist only within the boundaries accepted by the UN - otherwise it's not a state at all.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 07:49 AM

your opinion, then!
a lone singularity~
rather humbling, eh?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:06 AM

Quote:
your opinion, then! a lone singularity...

Not really. How about the whole world agrees with it apart from you and (cough) you know who which can't make up its mind? laugh

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:14 AM

the garble factor
is most strong in your response;
waistcoat too tight, mmm?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:16 AM

Waistcoat? What a diversion...

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:24 AM

it need not be, but
it's your prerogative, right?
hey, you wear it, pal!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:28 AM

No I don't actually... now about those illegal borders - do you support them or not? laugh

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:31 AM

so you say, law-boy
but then again, you say much
that amounts to zip
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 08:44 AM

You obviously didn't open my 'whole world' link. wink

Give it up Max - you used to post a lot of quite coherent common sense but latterly you've allowed your contribution here to descend to a load of personal gibberish.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 09:14 AM

1.
I merely reflect;
you are what I react to, key~
a peculiar void

2.
you seem so riled, vexed
it can be rectified, yes?
simply fix within
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 09:17 AM

LOL!

km
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 09:24 AM

Quote:
In my opinion states depending on a UN resolution for recognition exist only within the boundaries accepted by the UN


The logic of that statement dictates, then, that Israel exists as a State at the very least within the borders of the original UN resolution ...

Again, that assumes that the UN confers Statehood in the first place ...
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 09:32 AM

Yeah I don't think there's much between us, six, as is often the case... I'm saying that Israel, though its existence might be immoral, does exist as a legal entity within the boundaries recognised by the UN in Resolution 181.

km
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 09:43 AM

Quote:
Yeah I don't think there's much between us, six, as is often the case


Heh -- often it does turn out that way, although it equally often doesn't appear that way at the outset. Thanks for the clarification =)
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 10:22 AM

ah! peace reigns again
new arguments will appear~
watch the pixels fly.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 02:25 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Yeah I don't think there's much between us, six, as is often the case... I'm saying that Israel, though its existence might be immoral, does exist as a legal entity within the boundaries recognized by the UN in Resolution 181.

km


You keep forgetting that the Palestinians / Arab League has rejected all UN resolutions - Israel has accepted the UN resolutions <-- hence the problems.

Keep in mind that most of these (settlements) are inside Israel UN boarders - Palestine disputes them. Much are which renovation projects of 200 year old Jerusalem apartment buildings, to modernize them into the 21st century.

Jerusalem is a very hot subject and by the UN it is a shared city by both sides. Palestine believes only Muslims can rule over Holy Land and they never agree to the UN Resolutions to begin with.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:06 PM

Quote:
Keep in mind that most of these (settlements) are inside Israel UN boarders - Palestine disputes them. Much are which renovation projects of 200 year old Jerusalem apartment buildings, to modernize them into the 21st century.


Jerusalem isn't inside the borders of the original resolution -- it was intended to be a special UN-controlled city, part of neither the proposed Jewish nor Palestinian states. The settlements within Israel's original borders aren't the issue -- the ones it continues to develop in the lands it occupies outside of those borders are the problem ...
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:09 PM

Quote:
Israel has accepted the UN resolutions

Well, yeah, if accepting means rejecting I s'pose you're right... rejecting the borders in 181.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:22 PM

Big Six

Jerusalem - is a huge part of the dispute. No matter what the UN or the West says.

It also holds that region Muslim Religious Walling Wall
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 03:33 PM

Ya being a little bit cryptic ? ?

I gather from what your saying - that after WWII and before the UN resolutions.

The Arab States should have then negotiated, which they sorta did on a one way solution - which was giving the UN the Big Stiff Arm. They choose instead , death to Israel. No matter what.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Jerusalem […]

[…] also holds that region Muslim Religious Walling Wall
Muslim Religious Wailling Wall ? ! … ( of that region ) …

i suppose you could be meaning Wailling if any of it all made sense…


( ·&A3#4;flippity&#82%@¸‰flep&c&#35- [… ??? …] )


"Muslim Religious Wailling Wall" ! laugh laugh

And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !



Repent infidel !!!

laugh cry laugh
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 05:31 PM

Yep - LOL

We all make some spelling mistakes - only a fool would not know what we are talking about, let alone even point it out.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 05:36 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Yep - LOL

We all make some spelling mistakes - only a fool would not know what we are talking about, let alone even point it out.
LOL, yeah, a fool.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 05:43 PM

And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !

I just look it up before my reply - Did you ? ?

Google is your friend - maybe you should also check it out .
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 06:11 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !

I just look it up before my reply - Did you ? ?

Google is your friend - maybe you should also check it out .
What?

Are you going to tell me that you have confirmed that what you call the "Muslim Religious Wailling Wall", the Wailling Wall, is a Muslim religious site?
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 06:50 PM

Awaiting the doubtless precious answer to that one too...
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 09:47 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !

I just look it up before my reply - Did you ? ?

Google is your friend - maybe you should also check it out.
Is this you rabbiting ?

Google is [my] friend ? laugh !!! ???
Well… what did it turn up for you on your search?

You're more of a laugh FOOL laugh than what you implied before !
FOOL !
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/21/11 10:00 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Yep - LOL

We all make some spelling mistakes - only a fool would not know what we are talking about, let alone even point it out.
Yeak, you did make mistake ! Didn't you ?

Enjoy your foolishness… laugh

You
FOOL !

cool grin
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 04:02 AM

Yeah, carp's spelling is, shall we say, unique. But it's one of those characteristics that has endeared him to just about everyone here. And he, like many of us (yourself included, I'd wager) tends to occasionally use Google as a source of instant "authority". Need a quick factoid to argue or support a point? Just Google a quick scratch in the surface and so what if the topline dissolves deeper into the point. And yeah, he's stubborn to a fault. Not exactly a rare trait hereabouts, either.

But condescending? Judgmental? Sarcastic? A legend in his own mind? Nope. That ain't carp. Some would rightly assign such labels to me, no doubt (and I wear 'em proudly, thankyouverymuch). But also being a giving kind of guy, I readily share them with you. If you're gonna start calling the good guys in here "fool" because you figure you know more than them or because they don't spel to gud, you've got some glass house cleaning to do first.

I can get you a case of Windex wholesale. You're welcome. smirk
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 04:28 AM

Israel received it's independence in 1948 and ever since that day they are fighting for their freedom each and every day.Look at the countries they are surrounded by and tell me KM they really have a fighting chance!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 05:10 AM

Quote:
Israel received it's independence in 1948

Well they didn't actually receive it so much as proclaim it. Proclamations cannot a state create so they're left with Resolution 181 as to its legitimacy and borders.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:01 AM

I see. But you can proclaim what's "natural" and "unnatural" and have it be so? Give me a break.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:08 AM

Quote:
you can proclaim what's "natural" and "unnatural"...

Correct - I thought you'd never get it. shocked

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:11 AM

key cannot agree
his mind's made up, happily~
facts confuse him, see
Posted by: Lea

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:33 AM


Ignore this user
I do so completely but
The words still bleed through



Seriously, y'all? I haven't read a single KM post since last year ~ Don't need to. Same ol' same ol' same ol' . . . And I swear I've enjoyed this place so much more, simply by eliminating his rabbitting circular jerk posts from my daily cruise. Why I make a point of this? And I guess I direct this one to Max ~



MacBabes can haiku
But make a long story short?
Would we clip bird wings?

laugh

smile
LL
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:38 AM

Then indeed proclaim thyself the latter, Oh Alien[ated] One.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:44 AM

No I think you'll find I'm of the majority on all points, Oh Minority View[point] One.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 07:24 AM

confusion rules you;
majority means nothing~
just more people wrong!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 07:34 AM

Quote:
majority means nothing~just more people wrong!

OMG you still haven't opened my 'whole world' link... surely when Canada and the United States disagree it can't be Canada in the wrong? Think carefully... wink

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 08:12 AM

complaining again?
so inefficient of you;
absorb wisdom now!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 08:17 AM

Complaining?

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 08:54 AM

Carp assessment; well said Steve.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 08:55 AM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
you can proclaim what's "natural" and "unnatural"...

Correct - I thought you'd never get it. shocked

km

That's funny in a not-so-funny kind of way.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 08:56 AM

key again queries~
lost details, willful numbness~
chronic condition
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 09:15 AM

Quote:
lost details

Lost on you maybe - not on anyone else. laugh

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 09:36 AM

Double play for you: Out of your mind; out of your depth.

But thanks for playing...
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 09:39 AM

Step up now
Thoughts aloft
Over your head
Redundancy yet again


How'm I doin' Max? laugh
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 09:44 AM

Actually we were talking about whether the Isreali settlements in Palestine were lawful or unlawful... great attempt to change the subject though... laugh

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 09:51 AM

Very nice, Steve. Here's one for our keyless wonder:

more emoticons!
arsenal's only weapon~
best surrender, lad
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 09:58 AM

Emoticons don't make Israeli settlements lawful or unlawful, Max... how about admitting your own ignorant viewpoint on the issue? wink

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 10:09 AM

I haven't changed the subject. I've been talking about you all along. Which at the end of the day is your fav subject, too.

Mary me, you hunka-hunka burnin' matzoh! :is there an emoticon for that?:
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 10:12 AM

Quote:
I haven't changed the subject. I've been talking about you...

Steve, I don't know how many times I have to say this - the subject is not me... you need help...

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 10:16 AM

Nah. I can handle you all by myself. Although I do have to drink plenty of water.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 10:34 AM

Quote:
I can handle you all by myself. Although I do have to drink...

have you thought of consulting a psychologist?

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 10:58 AM

"Ignorant," it says~
mirror looks at self, freaks out
hypocrisy, yo
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 11:02 AM

Yeah I see what you mean - oh, and those settlements - acceptable or not in your opinion?

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 11:26 AM

Already did. He said you're too far gone to work with.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 11:38 AM

And the settlements? Any view on that?

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:04 PM

I guess we'll have to add Attention Deficit to your specs. But one more time (and write it down this time): I feel that the Israel has gone a bit too far as regards the settlements, and I'm not wild about how they've treated the Palestinians. Having said that, I temper my view with the very long history of repression and discrimination that the Jews (without whom there would not be an Israel in the first place) have had to endure. Not that two wrongs make a right, but it gives one an alternative lens.

Did you get that this time? I've only stated that position a half dozen times. There will be an oral quiz tomorrow. And you will have to answer in Haiku.

Hubba-hubba!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:14 PM

Yeah, I understand what you're saying... thanks.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:29 PM

Wow.
As Simply Red once asked, "Did the earth move for you Nancy?"
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:33 PM

if the earth did move
would the key realize it?
the parade's too fun!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:47 PM

Well i understand what he was saying but I don't understand a word of what you've been trying to say for the last several months... laugh

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:50 PM

you plead ignorance;
so truth finally appears~
of this I am glad
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 12:56 PM

Quote:
you plead ignorance

That's right - in fact when it comes to your position on the settlements we're all ignorant. grin

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:00 PM

you might truly see
if only you could awake~
your slumber deepens
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:15 PM

True, true... and your position on the settlements is... ? laugh

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:26 PM

I'm worried about him, Max. All the ED remedy ads say if you experience an erection lasting more than four hours, seek immediate medical attention. Do you think his stuck smilie might be something similar? shocked blush
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:28 PM

I thought it was just gas. blush
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:32 PM

Stuck smilie? We're waiting for his comments on the settlements not the smilies... cry

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:38 PM

Correction: [i]You[i] are waiting for his comments. But speaking of stuck smilies, was it Viagra®, Cialis® , or just bad toothpaste?
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 01:52 PM

the royal we schtick:
you think it makes you bigger~
so small now are you
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 02:05 PM

No we all are... the thread is about an 'historic crossroad for Israel...' smilies don't come into it. sick

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 02:17 PM

so do you proclaim;
believe what you will, old boy
your deeds are what count
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 02:20 PM

Originally Posted By: katlpablo
Originally Posted By: carp
Yep - LOL

We all make some spelling mistakes - only a fool would not know what we are talking about, let alone even point it out.
Yeak, you did make mistake ! Didn't you ?

Enjoy your foolishness… laugh

You
FOOL !

cool grin


Spelling cops are nothing but childish stupid bullies - Something I thought you were above, I guess not.

Please check the history.
There is a Wailing wall in Jerusaelem - do not confuse this with Mecca which each Muslim is expected to make that journey once in their life time.
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 02:36 PM

Funny, eh? He claims to not understand what you're saying. Yet he continues to reply. So either he does understand you... or we can't understand him.

Oy, my hair hurts. sick
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 02:55 PM

Steve, this is so true
guess he cannot help himself
last word must be his.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 04:59 PM

steveg, here's the story on this :

Originally Posted By: carp
Jerusalem […]

[…] also holds that region Muslim Religious Walling Wall


I accused him of not knowing what he's talking about.
Originally Posted By: katlpablo
Muslim Religious Wailling Wall ? ! … ( of that region ) …

i suppose you could be meaning Wailling if any of it all made sense…

"Muslim Religious Wailling Wall" ! laugh laugh

And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !
[ Tell me, steveg, you must know…
Do Muslims have any "wailling walls" in that or any other region ? ]

For carp what i'm criticizing is his spelling (in another later post he calls me " spelling cop "): !:
Originally Posted By: carp
Yep - LOL

We all make some spelling mistakes - only a fool would not know what we are talking about, let alone even point it out.
Originally Posted By: katlpablo
LOL, yeah, a fool.

So, as you can see, the fool is here because he called it out.

He, carp, in his post quoted above says that anyone that doesn't understand what's being discussed would be a fool. So he says that either i am a fool or he is a fool.

I don't have to excuse him if he unwillingly found wrong information and introduced it in the conversation that was going on in the forum. Specially when he doesn't acknowledge his error.
Originally Posted By: carp
And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !

I just look it up before my reply - Did you ? ?
Originally Posted By: katlpablo
What?

Are you going to tell me that you have confirmed that what you call the "Muslim Religious Wailling Wall", the Wailling Wall, is a Muslim religious site?
No answer to this, NADA.
So i hereby uphold the right to call him a FOOL ! for not knowing what he's talking about.

Originally Posted By: katlpablo
Originally Posted By: carp
And you keep acting as if you always know what you're talking about !

I just look it up before my reply - Did you ? ?

Google is your friend - maybe you should also check it out.
Is this you rabbiting ?

Google is [my] friend ? laugh !!! ???
Well… what did it turn up for you on your search?

You're more of a laugh FOOL laugh than what you implied before !
FOOL !
No direct answer, but…

What is he doing now ?

The following is worse than rabbiting around. ( He should have already admitted his error, but no, he doesn't confront his own actions… )

Carp now chooses to pretend that i am confusing the "Wailling Wall" with "Mecca" where, —he adds for my information,— "each Muslim is expected to make that journey once in their life time."

What is this ?
Is this guy an adult ?
How old are you carp ? blush



carp should stop being a fool and start an effort to make his written English better, instead of promoting the lovable "carpist" image, with his "carpisms". The foolish fun we make about his errors are used by him to excuse and justify his lack of respect to the forum and to the English language. His written communication makes us all work more to get some sense out of the knee-yerk, what-ever-passes-his-mind-first, unjustified commentaries that he plagues all threads with.

We do have some opinions which we share, but, this is a guy that told me the other day to shut up just because i didn't agree with him and told him why. I therefore let him deal with his opinions on his own. In any case i don't agree with him in practically anything, steveg…, less of all, on all these attitudes above.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 05:53 PM

Sorry

Just go and read the history - It is not me that does not know - it is you BIG TIME.

Spend a few weeks in study - I did - why not you.
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:15 PM

I've never seen anyone whine so... colorfully. Got it all out of your system now? I'll say it again. You're out of line. We don't have or need spelling or grammar police here. A thought is a thought is a thought. No matter how clumsily articulated. You want to disagree with the thought? Fine. That's called debate. You want to make the literary execution of that thought your focus? That's called petty.

And this...
Quote:
carp should stop being a fool and start an effort to make his written English better, instead of promoting the lovable "carpist" image, with his "carpisms". The foolish fun we make about his errors are used by him to excuse and justify his lack of respect to the forum and to the English language. His written communication makes us all work more to get some sense out of the knee-yerk, what-ever-passes-his-mind-first, unjustified commentaries that he plagues all threads with.
Sounds like an odd stew of penis envy, bitterness, and menopause!

Take. Deep. Breaths. In... Out... Ahhhhhhhh...
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 06:49 PM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Sounds like an odd stew of penis envy, bitterness, and menopause!

That must be it ! laugh cry tired sleep
Posted by: Lea

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 08:14 PM




Yo, kat? I've never had an opinion of you one way or the other. I do now.


Oh, what the hell. The only opinion I had of you up to now? O.V.E.R. Kill with the links. Seriously, you can take an interesting issue it and just TMI it's ass into the absolute ground. carp's carpisms are a constant source of bemusement and amusement. Your posts? I swear you could suck the excitement out of an alien invasion.

My classic two cents.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/22/11 10:06 PM

Originally Posted By: Lea
Yo, kat? I've never had an opinion of you one way or the other. I do now.


Oh, what the hell. The only opinion I had of you up to now? O.V.E.R. Kill with the links. Seriously, you can take an interesting issue it and just TMI it's ass into the absolute ground. carp's carpisms are a constant source of bemusement and amusement. Your posts? I swear you could suck the excitement out of an alien invasion.

My classic two cents.
Sorry that i'm such a bore for you ! smile
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 12:50 AM

Quote:
You're out of line

In what way? Somehow I don't think anyone's about to appoint you the arbiter of what's inline.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 12:56 AM

Quote:
your deeds are what count

What? I've never even been to Palestine.

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 01:05 AM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
your deeds are what count

What? I've never even been to Palestine.

km


ducking behind semantics
a lawyer's last resort
when the debate seems lost
behind walls of the fort
all in his bag of tricks
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 01:36 AM

Quote:
the Israelis can vote, no?

Yeah but all candidates favour the land annexations.

Quote:
hope that a newer kind of Jewish Israeli people exist.

Well there's Daniel Barenboim and a few members of Neturei Karta. You may have noticed though that whenever anyone tries to engage in a constructive debate on these issues they tend to get shouted down by morons who immediately want to change the subject. wink

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 01:40 AM

Quote:
when the debate seems lost

What debate?

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 02:09 AM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
when the debate seems lost

What debate?

km


Depends on the context and viewpoint.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 02:15 AM

Seems to me the context is peace in the Middle East with varying viewpoints on that and quite a few irrelevant viewpoints about... for some reason... my deeds? Go figure.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 02:19 AM

Of course not. You would be the self-appointed arbiter of all things. Or is that proclimator?
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 02:29 AM

Roity-O, Your Minus. Changing the subject and twisting the discussion into endless semantic mazes and dodges in search of The Last Word are sooooooooo very different.





You kill me.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 02:34 AM

One doesn't have to go very far back in the thread to find you trying to bring gays into it, as is your tendency - Steve this one is about Israel - get it?

km
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 02:58 AM

KM I reiterate again what do you have against Israel? I hear the bias and negativity in your posts regarding this all the time.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 03:01 AM

I would repeat what I said before... moving borders and the perpetration of other serious crimes in defence thereof.

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 03:16 AM

Actually, on this one, meaning the case of Israel and its actions, I pretty much agree with KM. And there's no hate involved. I'm just stating a fact when I say Israel is a US protectorate in the Middle East in reality and very few of their actions against palestinian people, let alone the colonies can really be justified or deemed acceptable.

As to what comes to yanking KM's chain, I like haggling with the lawyer types. They make good sparring partners. wink
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 06:29 AM

All part of the same pattern, my man. When watching you flog the rabbit, the subject is just so much background noise. In the end, it all comes down to your inflexibility, your refusal to recognize an opposing POV, your constant ducking and dodging, and your obsession with having the last word. Oh, and lest we forget, your track record of wearing down everyone else — boring or frustrating them to the point where they just have to walk away and leave you to your verbal masturbation — which you then advertise as your winning the debate.

T'would be funny, were it not to sad.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 06:58 AM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
[…] whenever anyone tries to engage in a constructive debate on these issues they tend to get shouted down […]
Yes, i have noticed that. cool


Whether we like it
or not.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 07:00 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
[…] Changing the subject and twisting the discussion into endless semantic mazes and dodges in search of The Last Word […]
Yes, i have noticed that. cool


Whether we like it
or not, posts avoiding thought
of their threads are faults
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 07:09 AM

Quote:
All part of the same pattern, my man. When watching you flog the rabbit, the subject is just so much background noise. In the end, it all comes down to your inflexibility, your refusal to recognize an opposing POV, your constant ducking and dodging, and your obsession with having the last word. Oh, and lest we forget, your track record of wearing down everyone else — boring or frustrating them to the point where they just have to walk away and leave you to your verbal masturbation — which you then advertise as your winning the debate. T'would be funny, were it not to sad.

I s'pose if you repeat your bullcr@p often enough the less perceptive might begin to think it contains some grain of truth - but the more perceptive will realise that you're only really describing yourself. cry

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 08:15 AM

delinquent words, lad~
can you not rein yourself in?
sad repetition.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 08:26 AM

I don't know what you mean, quite frankly. whistle

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 08:30 AM

Hey now! Don't bogard, pass it over!
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 09:00 AM

Originally Posted By: Mactico
Can't find any comment about 200 people killed in Libya, can you help me?
Sure.


Feb 22, 2011
'Brother' Gaddafi, you're going down
By Pepe Escobar


Feb 22, 2011
The mad dog of the Middle East
By Sami Moubayed
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 09:08 AM

Quote:
Don't bogard, pass it over!

Well sure... if you say so... if I ask Max for his opinion on whether Israel faces an historic crossroad is that bogarding? If so I immediately withdraw the question. wink

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 09:52 AM

deflect all you wish
it's just to be expected~
key without a lock
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 09:54 AM

Yeah, how about answering the question?

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 09:55 AM



xxxxxxxx
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 10:01 AM

Straight ahead for whether Israel faces an historic crossroad. laugh

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 10:09 AM

I believe we've had this *cough* discussion *snicker* more than once about the I know you are but what am I response that you fall back on when you've been cornered. And you claim to be a teacher? Pity your classroom.

As far as the subject of any given thread is concerned, there are those will debate the topic — and do so eloquently and from an informed position — and still find themselves frustrated by your ridiculous tactics. So I choose to avoid beating my head against the wall and stay on the topic of the bullcrap methodology you employ in virtually every thread. If it weren't the truth, I doubt you'd be pushing back so vigorously. If it weren't true, you'd be in a position to ignore it. But you don't and you can't. Even the less perceptive can see that.

Try again.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 10:12 AM

Quote:
I choose to avoid beating my head against the wall and stay on the topic...

Really? I thought the topic was Israel? Did you think it was me? grin

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 11:00 AM

"..." doesn't rewrite what I just posted. Nor does it fool anyone. I was quite direct and honest about what I'm doing. And unapologetic, I might add. Attempting to mask it with ellipsis is as sophomoric as I know you are but what am I?

When one loses traction on a slippery slope, throwing sand beneath the wheels sometimes helps. However, it appears you've thrown the sand into your shorts and given yourself a most uncomfortable wedgie! blush
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 11:02 AM

Steve - the thread is about Israel - how many more times?

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/23/11 12:25 PM

And I've already presented my position on Israel — to which you replied:
Quote:
Yeah, I understand what you're saying... thanks.

km

And now I'm back to the topic I post about often — as do you when you need to remind us of your anti-gay marriage/IFV/Israel sentiments or how incompetent the U.S. is at, well... everything.

You have your pet peeves. I have mine. You state what's on your mind regarding those issues. I do the same. When this forum is renamed km central, you may instruct me as to what I can and cannot post about. But until then, I will continue to call a bigot a bigot, and a fraud a fraud. How many more times?
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 04:21 AM

You say moving boarders where would you want Israel to go into the ocean?This is a small country surrounded by countries that hates what ever Israel does regarding their policies pertaining to the US.In plain words KM what the hell do you want from this nation?
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 04:25 AM

He would like it to be totally Gay so he can fear hate it twice as much. smirk
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 04:52 AM

Quote:
where would you want Israel to go into the ocean?

States don't go anywhere - they stay within their borders in this case those described in Resolution 181.

Quote:
In plain words KM what the hell do you want from this nation?

What the States? Not a lot - voting with the rest of the whole world to condemn land annexations would be a start.

km
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 05:26 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
He would like it to be totally Gay so he can fear hate it twice as much. smirk

You call me petty, but you're miserable.
frown
Posted by: Leslie

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 06:05 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
He would like it to be totally Gay so he can fear hate it twice as much. smirk

Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 07:17 AM

Well then, if, as they say, misery loves company, I'm in very good company. Pull up a chair and pout.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 01:54 PM

States don't go anywhere - they stay within their borders in this case those described in Resolution 181.

KM
You keep touting this resolution 181 - I keep reminding you that the Arab League and Palestine ((rejected it)) I mean all of it.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 02:10 PM

Makes no difference: read my above posts - it's 181 or nothing.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 02:52 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Makes no difference: read my above posts - it's 181 or nothing.

km


Well
Get them to agree with 181, I mean Palestine and the Arab League. After all the disputed lands in the 181.
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 03:05 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
Well
Get them to agree with 181, I mean Palestine and the Arab League. After all the disputed lands in the 181.


Considering how the Arab people are now toppling their regimes, the probability for this is now higher than in decades. Most have been dictatorships and at least Egypt has already promised to respect the peace treaty with Israel.

That's a possibility at least. We'll see.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 03:15 PM

Yeah although the days of we in the West dealing only with the election runners-up instead of the winners are over now.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 03:20 PM

The sad thing
Is all those countries will always be under a dictatorship.

Sure the names will change, and hey maybe they can vote in the future.
But really, the religious hiracacy are the dictators.

They will never ever be free - until they separate Religion from State, like the West.
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 03:30 PM

I have a hunch religion is mostly used as a means of power and oppression in there, kind of like in christian Rome and medieval to baroque Europe, and doesn't really reflect the views of the youth.

Egypt for instance seems to be becoming a truly secular state, where the dreaded Muslim Brotherhood is really a fringe organization. Just another political party among others.

Turkey is in many ways a good model of a secular Islamic country. Well, even they still have a long way to go in many ways.

Anyways carp, the way you phrased that could actually be considered demeaning and a severe underestimation of the people in those countries.
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 04:34 PM

Quote:
until they separate Religion from State, like the West.
Tell that to the far right. Oy.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 06:00 PM

I have a hunch religion is mostly used as a means of power and oppression in there, kind of like in christian Rome and medieval to baroque Europe, and doesn't really reflect the views of the youth.

You are right.
In your face is how their females are treated. Less than human.

Anyways carp, the way you phrased that could actually be considered demeaning and a severe underestimation of the people in those countries.

Nothing wrong with any of those people there. Just keep the religion personal and private. Not enforced into law, punishable by death. By Bible or Quran.
Posted by: katlpablo

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 06:36 PM

Originally Posted By: Mactico
Can't find any comment about 200 people killed in Libya, can you help me?
UPDATE

The most complete and interesting (in my opinion) take i have heard or read so far is by Victor Kotsev, linked bellow.

Feb 25, 2011
Scars show as Libya drowns in blood
By Victor Kotsev
Victor Kotsev is a journalist and political analyst based in Tel Aviv.

[…]

Libya is drowning in blood. The confirmed death toll so far, cited by Human Rights Watch and world media, is around 300, but in reality it is certainly higher - according to estimates by the Italian foreign minister, possibly 1,000. Witnesses cited by The New York Times on Tuesday claimed that pro-government militias were carting away bodies of protesters; the capital Tripoli was described as a "war zone", "littered with dead bodies". Gaddafi allegedly used practically all means available - including snipers, imported militias roaming the streets and firing indiscriminately, warplanes, helicopters and even naval bombardment.

[…]
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/24/11 11:57 PM

Yeah the ammo we supplied will keep him going for a while but when that runs out the people will kick him out.

km
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/25/11 03:29 AM

You know KM you have real hatred in your heart for Israel maybe you should go there and see what this country really represents in democracy and its struggle to gain it.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/25/11 06:37 AM

Well I hate those kinds of crime if that's what you mean.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/25/11 09:33 AM

I dislike prejudice, bigotry, homophobia and arrogance.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/25/11 09:42 AM

Me too - I'd put 'em in the same list as genocide, homicide, racism and oppression although they're not all like that.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/25/11 10:27 AM

Then how do you live with yourself?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 01:26 AM

The subject is Israel. cry

km
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 03:26 AM

I mean what this madman is doing to his people killing them for nothing because they want freedom and independence as human beings which they deserve.This is sheer genocide KM.Israel is the enemy of Ghadaffi and hopefully Israel will never have to be confronted with a madman like him in their existence in the Middle East.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 03:37 AM

Well you say that but Gaddaffi and Israel are friends of Tony Blair and the United States.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 03:39 AM

Frustrating, ain't it, when someone just won't leave a particular issue alone? When they'll grab any and every chance to harp on it? cry indeed.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 04:29 AM

Quote:
won't leave a particular issue...

You mean the relevant topic? You should try it sometime.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 06:58 AM

Oh, I dunno... Bigotry is always relevant. In an unfortunate way. Same with denial — which not only something you've tried sometime, but practice by default.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 07:41 AM

Too diversionary.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 08:32 AM

One of us has to stop. And we know it won't be you. So I will debark this childish merry-go-round you're running. And, of course, you will place this on your resume as another debate won. Sad, silly man that you are.

Toodles, Minister.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/26/11 08:48 AM

It'll go down as yet another attempt on your part to personalise a political discussion. Have the last word, I couldn't give a damn... but make it relevant this time.

km
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 04:03 AM

Ghadaffi has no friends hardly.The US wants nothing to do with him any longer and so does Tony Blair.
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 06:10 AM

Originally Posted By: jerryfox3
Ghadaffi has no friends hardly.The US wants nothing to do with him any longer and so does Tony Blair.


Libya happens to be north Africa's largest oil producer, with nationalized oil industry. That's the biggest difference when compared to Tunisia, Algeria, Lebanon, Egypt, etc. so no wonder US said even a military intervention isn't out of the question.

EDIT: Oh, and Libya doesn't have US supplied weaponry, like Egypt, but it's military is run by a mental patient. Thus an easier target. wink
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 06:23 AM

That's right, the arms were supplied by Blair who's also a mental patient.

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 07:16 AM

Well, to be fair, those AK 47s came officially from Romania, although they probably took their proxy cut, since batch was a little thin compared to the original amount. Oh, and they got Italian helicopters from a demented old perv, more firearms from Malta, comms equipment from Germany and so on
Posted by: keymaker

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 07:24 AM

That's right... Blair mainly sold riot control hardware and supplies such as armoured personnel carriers, tear gas and irritant ammo for controlling (cough) terrorists.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 12:49 PM

Libya happens to be north Africa's largest oil producer, with nationalized oil industry.

That is correct.

However the larger picture is when you look all the combined oil producing countries. According to one CNN analyst , Libya exports 3 to 4 % of the worlds oil and only has 1% of the worlds oil reserve. If those numbers are correct Libya is a small player on the world market and should not effect oil prices.

The real concern is Bahrain , Saudi and Kuwait.
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 01:10 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
The real concern is Bahrain , Saudi and Kuwait.


They are in Middle East, not North Africa. Furthermore, the US has established presence there, not so much in northern Africa. Especially now when Egypt has become sort of in-between and not an actual ally, but not an enemy either.

And the situation is almost the same in Tunisia and Algeria, as it is in Libya. Oh, and Iran. They already crushed one uprising there.

Also, remember how Libya and Gaddafi was a huge PITA during Reagan era? Libya is also considered to be underexplored.
Posted by: carp

Re: A historic crossroad for Israel, too… - 02/27/11 02:07 PM


You right about the regional politics.

I was only talking about % of world oil produced - their location means nothing.
Libya at 3% is so minor that any other country can easily pick that up. Which the Saudis already said they will increase production. So oil prices should go back down