You can not beat this logic...

Posted by: Clark

You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 03:47 PM

.
San Francisco resident Hak-Shing William Tam is a proponent of Proposition 8 and a defendent in the Perry trial.

In his deposition Tam wrote that legalizing same-sex marriage was part of a broader gay agenda.

"On their agenda list is: legalize having sex with children," states the letter, which also cautioned that other states would fall into Satan's hands if gays weren't stopped from marrying in California.

"My daughter told me her classmates chose to become lesbians and experiment with it after they think that same-sex marriage is a cool thing,"

Tam said. "They have some problem getting dates with boys, so same-sex marriage, since it is in the air, they think, 'Oh, why not try girls.'"
.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 03:55 PM

Tam has no clue.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 04:10 PM

It just gets stoopider and stoopider.
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 05:15 PM

Well ever seen those (Girls will have Fun) commercials ? ? the most insulting thing I ever seen

I believe those commercials should be banned big time.

As for gays
I don't care if they get into Civil Unions or that term called marriage <-- their mistake laugh
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 06:39 PM

Just curious Carp - the commercials have got what to do with Tam and prop 8?
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 07:35 PM

Originally Posted By: Leslie
Just curious Carp - the commercials have got what to do with Tam and prop 8?


Simply shows girls kissing and hugging each other , apparently in a drinking banter

Really goes to show our society - So when people say why all these crimes against women ? ? Go figure
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/13/10 08:33 PM



All these crimes against women are the result of two women kissing? ????????????

then

All the crimes against men are the result of two men kissing?

egads. I can't get these things straight. Need a score card. Dang me! My friend came back from Austin tonight. I'll hit her with a baseball bat if she kisses me!! [/sarcasm]


.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:42 AM

Bah! Affection is overrated anyway. Why can't people just go about their own bidness and keep a good 10' of air btwn each other at all times.




Ok, so that's not gonna work on NYC subway car. But that's what those plastic ponchos are for. eek
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 05:41 AM

I believe it's called pretzel logic:

Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 08:07 AM

Although sex with children and casual unnatural sex without regard to the drawbacks are serious concerns I agree that Tam's arguments aren't very skilfully constructed. The case against Prop 8 will fail, however, because marriage is non-discriminatory.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 09:29 AM

The case may vert well succeed because the load-bearing pillar is the assertion that same-sex marriage harms no one, while denying the right to marry harms affected couples, the children that they may be raising (oh, I know that point will knot your BVDs in a heartbeat), and their families.

That is logic you can't beat.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 10:08 AM

Quote:
denying the right to marry harms affected couples

The only denial is of persons below the age of consent... in which case marriage is not a right.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 10:36 AM

Who said anything about under-aged persons? This is about legal adults — who just happen to be Gay. It's Proposition 8, not Proposition Under 8.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 10:40 AM

There's no restriction on adults, only on persons under 18 years.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 11:20 AM

Quote:
Simply shows girls kissing and hugging each other , apparently in a drinking banter

Really goes to show our society - So when people say why all these crimes against women ? ? Go figure


Go figure exactly what?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:08 PM

I was kind of disappointed because he didn't post a link to the girls kissing.

I've searched but I can't find it. grin
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:13 PM

laugh laugh laugh

Youse guys are fruitcakes. wink
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:16 PM

Hullo... is this mic on? Proposition 8 overturns the rights of same-sex couples to marry in California. Why do you keep bring age into this? It's got nothing to do with P8.
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Leslie
Quote:
Simply shows girls kissing and hugging each other , apparently in a drinking banter

Really goes to show our society - So when people say why all these crimes against women ? ? Go figure


Go figure exactly what?


Simply it is degrading woman
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:35 PM

Cp.. turn it down a bit, jeeez... no, the only reason I mentioned age is that you started talking about denial of the right to marry which is basically about age.

Okay, there are other objections such as, you know, bigamy or incest - the 'prohibited degrees' but other than that no restrictions.

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:42 PM

steve, steve, steve ~ The mic is on. Otherwise KM wouldn't grab it with the "age" thing, so that he can delight himself with driving yet another thread around Bizarro Bend and over the cliff into the Land of The Thread That Won't Die.

But, as you rightly point out, age ** has 0 to do with a discussion of Proposition 8. Maybe he just misread the thread. Or doesn't know jack about Proposition 8. Or linked up with erroneous information. I'm lookin' to give him the benefit of a doubt . . .

Nope. Nothin' there. Go figure.




Edit: ** Looks like I gotta add bigamy and incest. Whew, this is hard work.






Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:45 PM

Turn it down a bit? Other objections? What are you talking about?


Never mind, I don't want to know. Carry on with this conversation you're having with yourself.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 12:46 PM

Scary, ain't it? eek
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 01:15 PM

Quote:
What are you talking about?

Prop 8, and denial of the right to marry - you introduced it not me. I was just saying that age is more or less the only restriction apart from rules of consanguinity and affinity i.e. which relations are disqualified from marrying one another within the definition.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 01:42 PM

Quote:
I was just saying that age is more or less the only restriction apart from rules of consanguinity and affinity i.e. which relations are disqualified from marrying one another within the definition.


None of this is remotely relevant to Prop 8.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 01:55 PM

Quote:
None of this is remotely relevant to Prop 8.

That's what I thought... but he started talking about denial of the right to marry in that context so I was just clearing up in what circumstances marriage can be denied.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:01 PM

Quote:
but he started talking about denial of the right to marry in that context


Please show me where.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:14 PM

Like I said, he's having his own private sidebar.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:15 PM

Well, just go up to his second where he said:

"denying the right to marry harms affected couples"

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:27 PM

Quote:
"denying the right to marry harms affected couples"


Whom do you think those affected couples might be?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:35 PM

The right to marry as with all human rights applies to individuals not 'couples'... that was probably his mistake now you come to mention it.

km
Posted by: w2ed

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:40 PM

Lea, not to contradict you, but age does have a minor indirect role in the proposition 8 idiocy, as many of these people (that I have heard - not speaking for every nutjob out there) who are against Gay marriage are also against gays having kids, as they believe the welfare of the child may be corrupted by having either "two mommies" or "two daddies." As I said before, it's not direct, but it's there.

KM, Steve, go to your corners! LOL J/K

BTW, who the hell is this Tam guy and why should I care?
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:42 PM

He's probably a closeted gay. wink
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:43 PM

You do realize that it takes a couple to get married laugh I suppose I could marry myself but that would be a dysfunctional marriage
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:44 PM

Quote:
proposition 8 idiocy

Idiocy? What do you mean?

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:47 PM

Quote:
it takes a couple to get married

It takes a couple to do a lot of things but the right to do them is an individual right.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
it takes a couple to get married

It takes a couple to do a lot of things but the right to do them is an individual right.

km


Correct ALL rights are individual , but as a couple in marriage they gain couple rights that as an individual won't get .

Not disagreeing with you just there is a parallel to this
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:00 PM

Well, when you extrapolate as you did, everything would have a "minor indirect role".
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:23 PM

The logical conclusion to all of this is to make all marriage illegal. After all, it is often harmful, and is always unnatural.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:24 PM

Quote:
ALL rights are individual , but as a couple in marriage they gain couple rights

Such as?

km
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:27 PM

laugh laugh laugh
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:33 PM

Quote:
make all marriage illegal

No, I don't think that would be very sensible... lot's of people like getting married.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:36 PM

I feel as if I've gone to the auto parts store to by a power window motor, and the clerk takes off on the history of glass and how it impacted the socioeconomic structure of Lower Slobovia. sick


And so another circle-jerk is born. I wonder if km will be handing out cigars... smirk
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:39 PM

Quote:
lot's of people like getting married.


And some of those people are denied the right to marry.

Hence, the discussion on Prop 8
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:41 PM

Fuhgettaboutit. He just like the sound of his own typing.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:44 PM

Quote:
some of those people are denied the right to marry

Well, only persons below the age of consent or prohibited by reason of consanguinity or affinity.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:46 PM

Indeed.
But naturally (no pun intended) this is of great import to me.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 03:52 PM

Prop 8 is not about age of consent, consanguinity or affinity.


Prop 8 is about this

"Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:02 PM

Quote:
Prop 8 is about this... "Only marriage between a man and a woman is valid or recognized in California."

I know... I'm just saying that marriage within the meaning of that term in Prop 8 can only be denied to those below the age of consent or within prohibited degrees.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:07 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
ALL rights are individual , but as a couple in marriage they gain couple rights

Such as?

km


Property ownership
Rights to death of a spouse
Tax relief for couples

On and On
Posted by: Clark

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:07 PM

.
"BTW, who the hell is this Tam guy and why should I care?"

I don't know if you should care but...

In California there is a court case going on called “Perry v Schwarzenneger” which challenges the constitutionality of California’s Proposition 8.

The trial will address issues including "how having same-sex parents affects children and if gay unions undermine male-female marriages", the "history of discrimination against gay people", and the "effects on gay people of prejudice."

This trial is considered a landmark case that will be appealed to the US Supreme Court.

Hak-Shing William Tam is one of five defendant-intervenors who petitioned the court to be allowed to defend Proposition 8 in Perry v. Schwarzenegger.
.
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:12 PM

Sorta pointless law suit they can argue all they want

The fact is the people of California VOTED <-- done deal .
They will have to sue every person who voted for prop-8 , if they wanna win anything . Suing California government means absolutely nothing , after all the people voted
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:21 PM

If you know, why do you feel you have to expound on it.

Age of consent or within prohibited degrees is redundant; under age is within a prohibited degree.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:22 PM

Quote:
Property ownership

That's achievable without marriage.

Quote:
Rights to death of a spouse

Rights to death?

Quote:
Tax relief for couples

Taxpayers are individuals.

km
Posted by: w2ed

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:40 PM

Prop 8 is about the rights of gays to marry - the idiocy involves how it was handled, as it was worded in a fashion that confused voters and was taken advantage of by various organizations AGAINST gay marriage. (From what I heard, though, on a few talk shows - one of which includes someone in favor of gay marriage - the gays brought it on themselves, assuming they had the necessary votes. This is why those of you in support of Marijuana legalization can't just sit on your butts and assume you've won, because a number of these groups have a dislike for that as well - and aren't afraid to be vocal about it!)

BTW, Leslie, hope you get that second-chance vote - I also heard (not going to substantiate) that part of the reason for the confusing wording was from certain religious group's involvement in trying to stop it from appearing on any ballet. Could be wrong on that, but either way, gay people should be allowed the same rights as straights. smile
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:49 PM

The good news is that Boies and Olson haven't asked km to be there paralegal.
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:52 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
Property ownership

That's achievable without marriage.

Quote:
Rights to death of a spouse

Rights to death?

Quote:
Tax relief for couples

Taxpayers are individuals.

km


Just show you don't know

Here there is what called Tenancy by the Entirety - which is only offered to married couples - There is a Joint Tenancy that is offered to two or more individuals , but they don't enjoy the same benefits that married couple have

Rights to death
Means if you are not married <-- you have no rights at ALL - the family takes over - Simply if you are a boyfriend or a girlfriend and one passes away , you have no rights <-- I know this first hand when my fiance past away in my arms before we were married .

Tax payers as a couple get discounts in their tax return when filled jointly - Single individuals are taxed at a higher rate
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:57 PM

Regardless the vote has been cast

You can sue the Cali Gov will not mean anything at all <-- end that crap , such a waste of peoples time and pant loads of money

The gays just have to rally up at the next election , and be smart enough to not get blind sided the next time
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 04:58 PM

Quote:
If you know, why do you feel you have to expound on it.

You seem a bit vague about who's allowed and who's not allowed to marry in California.

Quote:
Age of consent or within prohibited degrees is redundant; under age is within a prohibited degree.

Not really... the age of consent concerns a person's age and prohibited degrees concern the relationship.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 05:03 PM

Quote:
BTW, Leslie, hope you get that second-chance vote - I also heard (not going to substantiate) that part of the reason for the confusing wording was from certain religious group's involvement in trying to stop it from appearing on any ballet. Could be wrong on that, but either way, gay people should be allowed the same rights as straights.


I live in Canada where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2003. And as I am sure y'all have noticed, the sky has not fallen, Canada has not gone to hell in a hand basket nor has it affected heterosexual marriage in any way, shape or form.

I shall follow the trial with great interest.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 05:04 PM

[quoteYou seem a bit vague about who's allowed and who's not allowed to marry in California.][/quote]

How so?
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 05:10 PM

Quote:
Canada has not gone to hell


Well its been in hell so its hard to say when it went to it laugh <-- just kidding laugh

I do like Canada sounds interesting and a beautiful place
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 06:03 PM

Quote:
I do like Canada sounds interesting and a beautiful place


Absolutely, as is Hawaii.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 06:25 PM

Ask the point directly: does km accept that same sex partners should be able to marry? The whole discussion so far has been directed at not saying anything about that, which of course is the central point of the proposition.
Posted by: Lea

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 06:38 PM


Do it! Do it! Do it! (<------ What yoyo said. Crap, this thread is already getting confusing.)






Posted by: MacBozo

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:21 PM

Originally Posted By: Leslie
I live in Canada where same-sex marriage has been legal since 2003. And as I am sure y'all have noticed, the sky has not fallen, Canada has not gone to hell in a hand basket nor has it affected heterosexual marriage in any way, shape or form.
That must be driving Pat crazy! Why hasn't his concept of a god smitten Canada? wink
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:25 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
lot's of people like getting married.
Some more often than others.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:28 PM

The State of California put it on the ballot.
Posted by: Clark

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:31 PM

.
OMG, it would be a long, long, long, long trial.
.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:34 PM

Quote:
That must be driving Pat crazy! Why hasn't his concept of a god smitten Canada?


I'm waiting for the PAT the NINNY lightning bolt to strike. In the meantime, I am having a glass of wine. smile
Posted by: Clark

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:43 PM

.
Keymaker
.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:47 PM

I know, I know smirk
Posted by: Leslie

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:57 PM

km's statements usually require important qualification.


Quote:
same-sex marriages aren't recognised by the federal government either.

Not true in 7 countries.
Quote:
Marriage is a unique legal status conferred by and recognized by governments all over the world.

Yeah, and I've already pointed to several reasons why all over the world it doesn't extend to same sex couples

Not true in 7 countries.
Posted by: Clark

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/14/10 07:59 PM

.
Sorry
.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 02:45 AM

Quote:
Ask the point directly: does km accept that same sex partners should be able to marry?

No.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 02:55 AM

Well what you call a tenancy by the entirety can be achieved by deed and the right of survivorship applies to each tenant individually. I wasn't really arguing with you about marital rights however, just clearing up what you meant. Any such rights as are bestowed upon married couples as a unit would only apply to those qualified by marriage in any event.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:05 AM

Quote:
Quote:
You seem a bit vague about who's allowed and who's not allowed to marry
How so?

Well, with reference to Prop 8 you said that some people are denied the right to marry as if to suggest that sexual orientation is a criterion of marriage, when it's not.

If I turn up to compete in the Wimbledon mixed doubles with one my pals from the Hope & Anchor and I'm told the event requires team members to be of the opposite sex I don't say "Oy! I've been denied the right to compete in the mixed doubles" but simply accept that I didn't comply with rules. If I then go back with a lady partner - I'm in... and as it happens I'm pretty damn good at tennis.

km


Posted by: yoyo52

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 08:31 AM

See, Clark--you were right. And all the pussyfooting about underage and all the other crap was just smoke and mirrors.

I will bet you all the money in my pocket at this moment (and I promise that I'll give an accurate count wink ) that before long the discussion turns to inter-species sex and marriage.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 08:43 AM

Quote:
all the pussyfooting about underage and all the other crap was just smoke and mirrors.

You need to start paying attention - steve introduced denial of the right to marriage which applies to age and prohibited degrees but not to sexuality. Unlike you I consider it polite to answer a person's questions instead trying to find excuses to run away from them.

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 08:56 AM


"Unlike you I consider it polite to answer a person's questions instead trying to find excuses to run away from them."


xxxxxx



Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 09:12 AM

No, YOU need to start paying attention. I specifically referred to the purpose of Proposition 8 as a barrier to same-sex marriage. Age never entered into it — until You decided you needed an excuse to turn yet another thread into a platform for pointless pontification and distraction. Kind of hard to "run away" from a question that was never part of the equation.

And YOU kvetch about people going off-topic? Are you huffing Krylon or something?
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 09:13 AM

Ask him if he's a homophobe. G'wan. I dares ya! laugh
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 09:17 AM

He'll probably say he didn't like the tone of the question, knowing him. laugh

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 09:30 AM

Sorry, but your deflector shield is no longer effective.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:02 AM

Deflector shield? Oh, I see what you mean... well you're the only one who's been told off by Jim for homophobia so I'd have thought the question should be addressed to you? whistle

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:11 AM

Quote:
been told off by Jim for homophobia
Um... nooooo. I'm not the homophobic one in the room. Maybe you're wearing the deflector shield inside-out?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:18 AM

Quote:
No, YOU need to start paying attention. I specifically referred to the purpose of Proposition 8 as a barrier to same-sex marriage.

No, YOU need to start paying attention. You said:

"The case may vert well succeed because the load-bearing pillar is the assertion that same-sex marriage harms no one, while denying the right to marry harms affected couples..."

to which I pointed out that

"the right to marry as with all human rights applies to individuals not 'couples'..."

The only barriers to an individual marrying concern age and prohibited degrees.

km

Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:20 AM

Quote:
I'm not the homophobic one in the room.

You can't shed it that easily - it's on record.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:26 AM

What's on record? That I (and a chorus of others) have accused you of homophobia? So what? You've earned it. If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck...

It should be on record. And you're losing purchase with every post.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:28 AM

Gloss or satin?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:34 AM

Quote:
What's on record?

Your sustained homophobic attacks and lies that I called out in the long thread.

Quote:
So what? You've earned it.

What like President Obama? The nonsense you're trying to put about that anyone opposed to gay marriage is homophobic is laughable. laugh

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:45 AM

What's laughable is that you continue to beat the same dead horse — a remark that was diffused a year ago — while denying the obvious. You've called out nothing. Exposed nothing. Except for your myopic, egocentric, and clearly delusional self-absorption.

Mazeltov. You've turned another perfectly interesting thread into km's® Point of View and You had Better Swallow it Whole™ meaningless, pointless, endless circle jerk. Only for me, it's not endless. I'm done entertaining your foolishness.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 10:55 AM

Quote:
You've turned another perfectly interesting thread into km's® Point of View and You had Better Swallow it Whole™ meaningless, pointless, endless circle jerk.

No, you have... by once again degrading constructive discussion into another opportunity for personal abuse contrary to forum rules - you just can't stop yourself.

km
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 11:11 AM

To convert this thread into a version of the other one, ask if same-sex sex is unnatural and also harmful. That'll get you to the idea that it's unethical. And then this thread can just continue the previous one.

See, there's nothing new under the sun.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 11:26 AM

Quote:
To convert this thread into a version of the other one, ask if same-sex sex is unnatural and also harmful.

I've already answered that in the other thread... you want to try answering the questions you've been avoiding instead of trying get people to recycle the old ones. smirk

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 12:03 PM


Well, another thread's gone to hell in the usual fruit basket.

I'm outta here. Total waste of time. Yo, KM! Be proud, man, for keepin' up with the How to Ruin a Decent Conversation for Everybody Else game, and still going' for that serious self-satisfaction you just gotta have.

What. A. Waste.

Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 12:06 PM

Too late. It's already been twisted into an unnatural shape. Not by him, of course. No no no no no... that could never happen. crazy
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 12:21 PM

Quote:
KM! Be proud, man

Don't blame me... I've been trying to discuss the issues raised by Prop 8. You should turn your ire on those who can't stick to the subject.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 01:20 PM

Amazing, no? Nearly everyone else that's participating in this leetle thread keeps telling him this age thing has nothing to do with the discussion; that Prop 8 isn't about age.

But we're all wrong. Right? crazy There's thems that don't git it. And thems that don't git that they don't git it. confused
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 01:53 PM

Quote:
tenancy by the entirety can be achieved by deed


No so clear on what you said

Entirety is only for married couples <-- there is no other way to get this deed
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 01:54 PM

Quote:
everyone... keeps telling him this age thing has nothing to do with the discussion; that Prop 8 isn't about age.

'Man' and 'woman' have nothing to do with age? Seems that Tam was right all along. In any case "denying the right to marry" was your expression not mine.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 02:19 PM

Quote:
Entirety is only for married couples

I don't think they have that in California. The right of survivorship can always be achieved out of marriage by deed creating a joint tenancy.

km

Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 02:35 PM

"Denying the right to marry" as in P8 denying that right to same-sex couples. Age is not the issue in the context of P8 no matter how hard you stamp your feet.

But I knew the bigot in you would come around to supporting ol' Tam sooner or later.
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 02:37 PM

Joint tenancy is only for - Non married couples or between two guys or two girls - or a group of individuals . Broken down becomes into percentage of ownership , between the joint partnership - example 60% - 20% and 20% - in a case of gays one would would have a 51% the other a 49% state

Entirety is 50% - 50% and you have to be married - However California normally sides with the female in their judgments on who gets what .
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 02:49 PM

"Unlike you I consider it polite to answer a person's questions instead trying to find excuses to run away from them."

Yeah, that one cracked me up too.

Hoo boy, what a thread.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:04 PM

Yeah, well we all know what an evasive, inarticulate lout that yoyo guy is. I mean, really! mad
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:07 PM

Quote:
Joint tenancy is only for - Non married couples or between two guys or two girls - or a group of individuals

No anyone can be a joint tenant.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:09 PM

Oh yeah, fersure. No way you can trust that yoyo feller. Now KM, that whatchamacallit barristerd, he's a right rum feller. Straight shooter fersure fersure.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:16 PM

Quote:
"Denying the right to marry" as in P8 denying that right to same-sex couples.

The right to marry doesn't apply to couples only to individuals... as with all human rights.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:19 PM

Some of whom are interested in forming same-sex marriages...
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:24 PM

Yeah well that's a contradiction in terms.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 03:46 PM

According to whom? You? That's a laugh riot.

You insist you're neither bigot nor homophobe, yet you can't help but blow your cover over and over again with statements like that.

But, in the spirit of fairness and civility, I'll give you a choice. But first, a little background. Allow me the assumption that you and Mrs. km are happily married, are very much in love with each other, and have wonderful children. Yet you find it objectionable that same-sex couples might enjoy the same happiness and legal status, and that couples of any sexual orientation might be able to have children, too, if medical/scientific intervention of some sort is required to reach that goal.

Civil unions are good enough for Gay and Lesbian couples, and couples engaging in IVF in order to raise a family are selfish and lifestyle-centric — according to you.

So, back to your choice. I can continue to assert that you are a bigot and a homophobe, or instead, I can say that you are incredibly selfish, insensitive, and intolerant. Either way, the sum is "not a very nice man." But perhaps the language of the latter is more palatable for you than the former. So, by all means, pick tour poison.
Posted by: carp

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 04:11 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
Joint tenancy is only for - Non married couples or between two guys or two girls - or a group of individuals

No anyone can be a joint tenant.

km


I have Certification in Real Estate <-- sorry you are way wrong in this one
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 04:43 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Yeah well that's a contradiction in terms.

km


Sez you. Nor do I see anything of substance backing you up.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 04:51 PM

Quote:
According to whom? You?

Noope, the majority of Californians... as opposed to the bigoted heterophobic minority that you belong to. It's about time you started showing some humility over the issue.

Quote:
You insist you're neither bigot nor homophobe, yet you can't help but blow your cover over and over again with statements like that.

There you go again... statements of fact make no one homophobic... nauseating sexual innuendo and lies of the kind you throw around do.

Quote:
you find it objectionable that same-sex couples might enjoy the same happiness and legal status,

Too many false assumptions. If changing the meaning of marriage against the wishes of society is the only way a person can be happy he needs to see a psychologist. As it happens your assumptions are incorrect.

Quote:
and that couples of any sexual orientation might be able to have children, too, if medical/scientific intervention of some sort is required to reach that goal.

Well that's dangerous so it shouldn't be allowed.

Quote:
Civil unions are good enough for Gay and Lesbian couples

Not good enough - better.

Quote:
and couples engaging in IVF in order to raise a family are selfish and lifestyle-centric — according to you.

Not necessarily... they could be ill-informed.

Quote:
So, back to your choice. I can continue to assert that you are a bigot and a homophobe, or instead, I can say that you are incredibly selfish, insensitive, and intolerant.

I'd be more worried about a compliment from anyone as narcissistic and dogmatic as you clearly are.

km
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 05:20 PM

You are asking someone else in here to show humility. You of all people.

As the pointy-eared dude would say, "fascinating."

Throwing in the heterophobic comment was just icing on the pizza.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 05:25 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
bigoted heterophobic
Hard headed may be a better label than bigoted, but as far as heterophobic, okay, this explanation I would love to hear. I know what one is, but #1, through what reasoning you've decided to pin that label on this topic, and #2, does it refer to anyone here cuz I don't see it.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 05:28 PM

Originally Posted By: VarmintBlubber
Throwing in the heterophobic comment was just icing on the pizza.
Yeah, I had to finally join this to give that a big WTF.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 05:29 PM

Must be a sign of desperation on his part. Throwing stuff at the walls, hoping something will stick.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 05:37 PM

I'm still betting that bestiality pays a visit to this thread.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 05:38 PM

Not a bad bet.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 06:23 PM

Can I get a I'm a Proud Heterophobe T-shirt from you? I'll trade you one of these...
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 06:26 PM

AYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!! Run! Run for your lives! The Horrible Heteros are coming! shocked eek
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 06:33 PM

Well. I dunno about you VB, but I may just ™ that sucker and lease out the rights to it.

Like, Calvin Klein®. Heterophobic by Choice™. laugh
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 06:56 PM

Steve, I am starting to think that being called a heterophobe by His Waistcoatedness might actually be considered a high honour.
Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 07:02 PM

I think you may be right, Max. But I worry that I might not be worthy. *sigh*

Oh well, there's always that narcissistic thing. Do you think I'm pretty?
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/15/10 07:17 PM

LOL

Well, I do like the flashing apple

[runs away, blushing furiously]
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/16/10 08:27 AM

Quote:
sorry you are way wrong

No, I think you'll find I'm right.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/16/10 08:38 AM

Quote:
heterophobic... does it refer to anyone here cuz I don't see it.

Well, I've used the same freedom that steve does with his rather loose accusations of homophobia although, ironically, he's demonstrated that as well... not that anyone apart from you and I seemed much concerned about it. wink

km

Posted by: steveg

Re: You can not beat this logic... - 01/16/10 11:07 AM

Loose accusations?

How about adding up all the not-so-subtle signals you send and the not-so-tolerant statements you make, and arriving at...
your NUMBER! Ah-ah-aaaaaaaaaahhhh...