Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program

Posted by: iBookmaster

Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 04:54 PM

One of the reporters was talking about the terrorist on the Detroit flight the other day. This reporter said "all Muslims are not terrorist but nearly all terrorists are Muslim". This is very true. But, once again, what is the target here? You got it.....our wonderful religions on this earth.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 04:58 PM

That's pure nonsense. It's a line that wouldn't work very well in Spain, or in Britain up to not so long ago or in Italy or Germany in the 1980s or in the US up till the early 90s.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:11 PM

But yoyo52, it's true. Plain and simple.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:12 PM

Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
One of the reporters was talking about the terrorist on the Detroit flight the other day. This reporter said "all Muslims are not terrorist but nearly all terrorists are Muslim". This is very true. But, once again, what is the target here? You got it.....our wonderful religions on this earth.


I agree with that - on the percentage point .

Debate ;

1 - Racial Profiling
2 - Criminal Profiling

I believe they are both the same - just different approaches
One is from the top end without knowing the race
The other is from the bottom end and working up from the known race

To me it is the same .

Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:23 PM

That's really not a true statement. Nearly all terrorists are "religious" fanatics, period.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:32 PM

The way I see it is, a radical muslim turns you into a criminal.

MacBozo, the bad part for muslims is the most radical fanatical religion when it comes to violence is theirs....muslim.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: MacBozo
That's really not a true statement. Nearly all terrorists are "religious" fanatics, period.


Yep

And what sad that the majority of Muslims are not - crazed muderers

Just there is a group of paid Mercenaries like Al-Qeada that gives them a super bad name tag . Really shameful
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:41 PM


Oh my. Never read up on the Crusades, huh? The Inquisition is interesting, too. Ever studied the history of our KKK?

You stated above something about pure and simple. I'm thinking purely simpleton.







Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:44 PM

I was thinking more recently - womens health center bombings and executing doctors in the name of pro-life. Uh, whut?
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:50 PM


Excellent examples. And let's not forget the Reverend Phelps. Oh, darn. He doesn't count. He hasn't killed anybody. Physically.



Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 05:57 PM

Originally Posted By: Lea

Oh my. Never read up on the Crusades, huh? The Inquisition is interesting, too. Ever studied the history of our KKK?

You stated above something about pure and simple. I'm thinking purely simpleton.









That it's true bothers you that much? Are you saying it's not true? If it's not, then which religion or group do just about all terrorist come from? You mention the Crusades and KKK. They are things of the past. We are talking about the present. But, if you want to worry about the past and not the present....that is simpleton.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 06:01 PM

If you are saying only Muslims are terrorists, then that is an ignorant statement.
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 06:17 PM


My point ~ violence in the name of one's religion was, is and always will be a part of the human construct. For you to assign violence to only to the "Muslim faith" (it's better known as Islam) is common bigotry. And bigotry is born of ignorance.

I suspect this will lead down the "See? All religions are eeeevil" lane, so I'm taking the nearest exit. And as I wave goodbye, let me leave you with this very pure and simple fact: Religion isn't violent and evil. But people can be and often are.



Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 06:33 PM

Correct Lea

Sadly
This latest human nightmare is generated by Al-Qeada , sadly claims a religious sect that is bent on ridding the world of Western Influences .

The rest of the Muslim world don't feel that way - ya just need a few bad apples , ahh nut jobs jobs to spoil the barrel .
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 06:41 PM

Lea, you and MacBozo can both poo poo on this but this statement came from an ABC news man. Calling me ignorant, a bigot or whatever you want doesn't change the fact that it seems to be true.

Shoe Bomber - muslim
9/11 - muslim
Detroit jetliner - muslim
Fort Hood - muslim
John Muhammad - muslim

MacBozo, I'm not saying only Muslims are terrorists. But, I am saying all of the terrorists attacks since the starting of these wars we now have happen to be muslim. Call me ignorant, bigot, simpleton, anything you can come up with. The facts remain the same. For those of you who WANT to be blind to the facts.

Nah, I'm looking at it all wrong. This list is totally false. Those I listed above aren't muslim. They're christian! Woohoo!
The religion of peace!


Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 06:49 PM

Jingoism at its worst. So, an ABC "newsperson" is a reliable source/authority? Good grief! crazy
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 06:52 PM

Well that depends

Anyway

Most of the world hot spots
China
Malaysia
Yemen
Somalia
Filipines
Suri Lanka
Burma
Thailand
India
Pakistan
Afghanistan
Iraq
Saudi Arabia
Syria
Israel
Gaza
Germany
France
Spain

On and ON all Muslim attacks
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:01 PM

Well, when you define terrorists as only Muslims....

Very convenient when you don't know or care to know anything about them - not the extremists; the everyday Muslim who disowns Al-Qeada and its principles. If you're a Palestinian, Isrealis are terrorists and vice-versa. Ask the victims of clinic bombings if they are victims of terrorism. Ask black folks if they are victims of KKK terrorism. Ask gays if they are the victims of terrorists. You cannot simply single out one group and label them as terrorists just because it is convenient.
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:04 PM


You mention the Crusades and KKK. They are things of the past. We are talking about the present. But, if you want to worry about the past and not the present....that is simpleton.

-*-*-*-*-



If you think the KKK is a thing of the past, try Google!

They are alive, well, and growing in number since we elected Obama!


.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:04 PM

Originally Posted By: MacBozo
Jingoism at its worst. So, an ABC "newsperson" is a reliable source/authority? Good grief! crazy


Right, I should have quoted Fox News. tired

Why is the ABC newsperson unreliable? Still deflecting the truth. I ask you...is it not true most are muslim? Answer honestly now. Or can you?
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:06 PM

Kate, their power is pretty low. We don't hear from them any more. Maybe Obama will join them and raise their popularity since he's half white!
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:06 PM

They also embrace Hitler's Nazism and call themselves "christian." Go figure.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:09 PM

Oh, wait a minute....you've got a point. Maybe this last terrorist attack was really from a KKK member. His name is Umar Farouk AbdulMutallab. Sounds like a KKK member to me!
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:11 PM

I don't wanna hear that kind BS of CRAP

The truth is most of the worlds i'lls are muslim induced murder . For whatever reason they feel the need to murder people .

Seems like they want an all Muslim World <-- nothing else is except able .
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:12 PM

My point is it has become convenient to label Muslims as terrorists and ignore everything/everyone else who commits acts of terror. You cannot single out only one group of people and label them that way.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:14 PM

Fox News is an oxymoron.
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:24 PM


Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
Kate, their power is pretty low. We don't hear from them any more. Maybe Obama will join them and raise their popularity since he's half white!


Hey, you're right. The KKK doesn't bother you. They don't bother me either. Low power. Right. No skin off my nose.

Whoa! We're both white Caucasians. We don't live near no steenkin Klan members.

I'm just guessing, but I think it might be different for members African American Black folk. One source I read said there were maybe 8000 Klan members. How many [active] Muslim terrorists are in the U.S.

Can you think of any other countries in the World where terrorism takes place. Think [as Carp likes to say] smile

terrorist |&#712;ter&#601;rist|
noun
a person who uses terrorism in the pursuit of political aims.

Are there terrorists in Africa? Are some of them NOT Muslims? I'm just guessing.

Are Israelis or Palestinians terrorists? Are some of them not Muslims.

I'm just taking the opposing side of your topic of discussion. smile

Are there terrorists in Lebanon.

Are there terrorists in Cuba.

Are there terrorists in Kazakhstan.

Can you think of some more terrorists who are not Muslims?

I have a different opinion than the ABC reporter and than you have. Not right or wrong -- just different. smile

.
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:33 PM

Originally Posted By: carp
I don't wanna hear that kind BS of CRAP

The truth is most of the worlds i'lls are muslim induced murder . For whatever reason they feel the need to murder people .

Seems like they want an all Muslim World <-- nothing else is except able .


I cannot tell you how much I disagree with you on your opinions re this matter!



". . . most of the worlds i'lls are muslim induced murder . For whatever reason they feel the need to murder people."

I'm wondering what you have read or heard that led you to believe the preceding statement? [I'm guessing I'll never know wink ]



.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:42 PM

Think? It doesn't take much thinking to realize the original statement happens to be true. I can't believe so many people try to deflect the obvious truth. Or does the truth hurt that much? Maybe we (Americans) need to be putting you guys deflecting this on a terror watch list. You sure are defending them hard enough.


I have a different opinion than the ABC reporter and than you have. Not right or wrong -- just different.

He wasn't stating his opinion, he stated fact.

No, I'm not worried about the KKK and I don't think many blacks do either any more. But, maybe I'm missing something here. I can't recall the last time kkk members killed someone. When was the latest one? Doesn't matter. We know the original statement by the (unreliable) ABC news man is still true. Even if their was a recent killing by the kkk, I don't think we will see them get on planes and try to detonate bombs or takeover planes to run them into U.S. buildings.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:45 PM

Originally Posted By: starmillway
Originally Posted By: carp
I don't wanna hear that kind BS of CRAP

The truth is most of the worlds i'lls are muslim induced murder . For whatever reason they feel the need to murder people .

Seems like they want an all Muslim World <-- nothing else is except able .


I cannot tell you how much I disagree with you on your opinions re this matter!



". . . most of the worlds i'lls are muslim induced murder . For whatever reason they feel the need to murder people."

I'm wondering what you have read or heard that led you to believe the preceding statement? [I'm guessing I'll never know wink ]



.


Try checking the News on any given day - laugh It is not hard to do
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:48 PM

Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
Think? It doesn't take much thinking to realize the original statement happens to be true. I can't believe so many people try to deflect the obvious truth. Or does the truth hurt that much? Maybe we (Americans) need to be putting you guys deflecting this on a terror watch list. You sure are defending them hard enough.


I have a different opinion than the ABC reporter and than you have. Not right or wrong -- just different.

He wasn't stating his opinion, he stated fact.

No, I'm not worried about the KKK and I don't think many blacks do either any more. But, maybe I'm missing something here. I can't recall the last time kkk members killed someone. When was the latest one? Doesn't matter. We know the original statement by the (unreliable) ABC news man is still true. Even if their was a recent killing by the kkk, I don't think we will see them get on planes and try to detonate bombs or takeover planes to run them into U.S. buildings.


I agree

There is abig difference from racism and a world domination of one religion being all Islam
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 07:54 PM



What I'm trying to say is, that in your opinion, what the newscaster said, whether news or opinion, in your opinion it is true, fact, chipped in marble.

What we are indulging in here is discussion. As it happens, there are many sides to a discussion. I and maybe one or two others, have a different opinion about your topic and whether the newsman was giving news or opinion.

You have a right to your opinion, and I respect that. What I have some difficulty with is the fact that you might not be able to respect the fact that people might differ with your opinion. I mean no animosity and I guess this is why I usually stay out of these discussions. smile Friends? I hope so.



.
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:01 PM



I knew you wouldn't disappoint me. Ha! smile



You and I can Google a subject and read the very same links. You would come to one conclusion and would come to an opposite one! That's the way it goes, huh?


.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:06 PM

Absolutely friends. How could anyone here not respect you? I do. I don't want to be an enemy of anybody on here or anywhere else. It's better to be friendly with as many as possible. I'm glad you want to be friendly with me. I actually had come to a point in this thread that everybody "discussing" against me was actually just trying to put me down and not really put real evidence against what the news man said. Not to be ugly here Kate but you said "think" to me. Lea basically calls me a simpleton and more. Just stating facts again. Nothing meant by me repeating it.

I don't blame you for usually staying out of discussions like these as they can become testy. But.....I really didn't think many would come to the defense of terrorist muslims.

One of my all time heros is a muslim.....Muhammad Ali the greatest boxer of all time. I don't hate all muslims. I do agree with Carp that only a nasty handful of extremists have become terrorists. Unfortunately that handful are mostly muslim.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:08 PM

Quote:
What I'm trying to say is, that in your opinion, what the newscaster said, whether news or opinion, in your opinion it is true, fact, chipped in marble.


Much like this

WHO said that it was a true fact ?

Like I said - repeat and repeat and repeat
No one knows the real truth and I am talking about the scientist themselves .

News caster = Talking Heads don't even have a clue outside WHAT is reported to them

I call it (Regurgitation) of the news and we all seen our PETs do that laugh
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:13 PM

HEY

Big Guy no one here does not Respect You

We do get sophomoric at times - so cut us some slack laugh
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:16 PM

Well Carp, I can't say it is absolutely true fact. But, it sure seems like it. And nobody here has pointed this news man's statement to not be fact yet.

ABC news happens to be the news I like to watch at 6:30 p.m. eastern U.S. time. Who should I be watching instead?

Who do you watch?
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:18 PM

Big Sorry
I worded wrongly <-could be seen as the other negative way , I guess ?

We do respect you and your opinions . Like everyone elses
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:23 PM

Thanks Carp, as I do yours and everybody else too. This should be a place to converse/discuss/debate friendly. I do wish it was that way more. Life's too short....

Anyway, I really didn't expect such a tough debate on this one. I guess I can't figure out these MacTech forum folks very well can I?

Live and learn for me.

While I'm at the friendly part, I have to admit that I have learned more from the people on this forum (and the former MacCentral forum) than anywhere else on the net. It's been a great experience.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:28 PM

Wait let me back track a bit

I watch , HLN , CNN , Google News. Wall Street , NY Times , Chicago Times , Honolulu Advertiser , BBC , Los Angeles Times , Washington post and many others .

Sooooo are you saying that ABC has all the truth and the get go ? ? That all the others are just whack jobs ? ?

I will say I do not watch anything FOX , but thats just me
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:32 PM

How the h@ll do you have time to watch/read all that and still make almost 19,000 posts on this forum? LOL.

Hey, I do watch Fox news. I hate them. But, I want to hear what they have to say. I take it you watch/read all the above because of the same reasons.

I would like to think the "many others" you mentioned also includes ABC news. Hey, it's just another news broadcast.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:36 PM

Because I am not working

Laid off , because of the economy -- Yes I am A Victim
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 08:54 PM


I'll grant you Tim McVeigh wasn't KKK. You remember him? The guy whose observation was the children he killed in Oklahoma City were "collateral damage?" Terry Nichols never had much to say. Randy Weaver and his gang took a stand against the United States, but I don't recall that they were KKK.

Unabomber, Minute Men, survivalists, vigilante border patrols ~ OK, those last couple of groups, yeah, probably KKK.

But whether these men/groups were/are KKK or Christian fundies or snake handlers, what they all have in common is domestic terrorism. Right here, our own citizens, killing us in the name of whatever cause blows up their skirt.

Oh, wow! I betcha good money not a single man is Muslim.



Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 09:17 PM

Thanks for making that point, Lea.

All our countries have home-grown nutbars and would-be terrorists. You can be of whatever religious stripe and still be a homicidal nutbar with something wacked to prove.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/28/09 09:29 PM

Actually, I may not have worded the comment from the ABC news man perfectly. He may have said most terrorists are muslim, not "nearly all" as I posted in the original post. Still, with KKK, unibomber, McVeigh and a handful of others, MOST are muslim.


Let's ask this another way. Which form of terrorism does America fear the most? KKK, people like McVeigh or muslim extremists?

Good comeback Lea on other forms of terrorism though.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:35 AM

No. It's BS. Pure and simple. Do a little research on the history of terrorism and tell us again that "most terrorist are Muslim". Have a little fear mongering with your Hummus.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:41 AM

Then you agree with misinformation, too. If you said that the Jihadists are fer better at PR than other terror groups, I would agree. But to say that "most terrorists are Muslims" is to substitute fear with knowledge. Not a good plan — unless you're a right wing nutbar.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:50 AM

Is the KKK past tense? Are the anti-abortion assassins, bombers and harassers past tense? Are the Neo-Nazis and Skinheads past tense? Is the Bush administration past tense? Open your eyes.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:07 AM

You're right Steve. I see an anti abortion assassin on the news every day. Neo Nazi and Skinheads killings on the news every week. Yep, each one of these group does more damage than the radical muslims every day/week. The point is which one do we hear trouble from the MOST. Open your eyes.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:08 AM

If you're going to cite sources, cite them accurately. What the ABC reporter did was quote or paraphrase unmistakably ignorant remarks from the likes of Jim Demint and Mike Gallagher.

Demint, while blaming the attack on Obama, is single-handedly holding up Obama's TSA Director appointment because he doesn't think that baggage handlers should be able to join a union. In other words, blocking baggage handlers from collective bargaining is more important to Demint than installing the person responsible for all U.S. air travel safety and security. Gallagher is just another far right wing talking head who said that anyone with a Muslim-sounding name must go through a separate security line at airports and train stations. Y'know, likely terrorists with names like Barack Hussein Obama.

Really, man. Is this the crap you take as wrote?
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:15 AM

I don't know. You seen to "know it all". From the way you wrote this last bit, you act like you watched it. So, you saw it yourself. I don't need to tell you any more. Still, as I've said in other replies, the ABC news man seems to be right. Still haven't seen a group mentioned that we see more problems with than the radical muslims.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:45 AM

I did not see the ABC report. But I have seen/read several related reports yesterday and today that encircle the issue 360 degrees, and give context to the ABC piece.

I'm sorry, but if you unconditionally accept what you heard (or think your heard) as fact, then you don't understand what a fact actually is.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:48 AM

Yeah, no smoke, VB. Just look at those Maple Leafs fans! laugh
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:52 AM

It's not who watch, but what they say. And how you interpret or understand it. And whether or not you're willing to dig below the surface or do a little fact-checking of your own. Based on your unconditional acceptance of one remark, I'd say you're a spammer's dream!
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:56 AM

Wow. What a week — and it's only Tuesday! Two bigots self-outed in two days! frown
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:13 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
I did not see the ABC report. But I have seen/read several related reports yesterday and today that encircle the issue 360 degrees, and give context to the ABC piece.

I'm sorry, but if you unconditionally accept what you heard (or think your heard) as fact, then you don't understand what a fact actually is.


Right, facts are only what YOU say they are. Thanks for clearing up what facts are!
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:18 AM

Now you're acting like a petulant child who refuses to eat his spinach. Just because.

And that's a fact.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:24 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
It's not who watch, but what they say. And how you interpret or understand it. And whether or not you're willing to dig below the surface or do a little fact-checking of your own. Based on your unconditional acceptance of one remark, I'd say you're a spammer's dream!


No need to dig below the surface. You either understand what the man said or not. Sounds like you didn't. You are saying there are other groups that are more problematic than radical muslims. Ok, your opinion. Not mine.

A spammer's dream. That's what you are for not realizing radical muslims are the biggest threat.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:25 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Wow. What a week — and it's only Tuesday! Two bigots self-outed in two days! frown


And below you say I'm acting like a child. Calling me a bigot is very child like.....and that's a fact!
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:48 AM

Instead of throwing random words at the wall and hoping they'll form a cogent sentence, try carefully re-reading all of the responses in this thread. Then ask yourself if you still believe what you think this ABC newsperson said, or if there's more to it than four misguided words. If you still subscribe to the former, you are — in fact — a bigot. Apparently because you're too willing to accept egregious misinformation without question.

Forget the "childish" characterization. Too subjective. But your open display of bigotry is up there in wide screen high def. I really thought you had more on the ball than that.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:58 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Yeah, no smoke, VB. Just look at those Maple Leafs fans! laugh


Too true, Steve! Un-freakin' bahleevabul.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:59 AM

Quote:
You are saying there are other groups that are more problematic than radical muslims.
You're gonna have to point out exactly where I said that. Good luck.

Second, if you can't see the overt bias in that statement, you're in no position to accuse anyone of not understanding anything. Muslim extremists are by far the most visible faction — especially since 9/11. But exposure is no measure of scope or ubiquity. If you follow the logic you favor, then you may as well accept that all black men are after our white wives and daughters, we Jews have horns under our yarmulkes, and all Polish people are stupid.

In fact, attitudes like yours and iBookmaster's are the biggest threat.
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 07:20 AM


No need to dig below the surface.


It's dangerous to take things at face value. It's easier, but it's dangerous and it's exactly how this country allowed the Bush administration to get away with the invasion of Iraq.

Your determination to trust one commentator on one news program is unsettling. Are you familiar with Judith Miller? She's only one example, but I wonder if you understand the example I'm trying to illuminate with her name?

If you truly, truly believe there is no need to dig beneath the surface, you will continue to not have a clue and you will continue to fail to understand why so many of us go batshlt crazy when you toss off your pronouncements as though they are, indeed, the pure and simple truth.

How can you possibly know enough to defend your positions if you really, really believe there's no need to dig below the surface?

That's scary stuff, man.







Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 08:44 AM

Wow, the ABC news man makes a comment. I tend to agree with it. Steveg thinks my attitude is a "threat", Lea thinks that if I don't dig deeper into this one little statement that I'm doing scary stuff. Yep, I'm a huge threat and real scary. It's amazing the lengths you guys will go to, to put me down. You're really nice folks! Thanks for the wonderful comments.

It's funny how certain people here make a statement from a news source automatically false. Deny and deflect. Hey, everything I hear tonight at 6:30 on ABC news I should automatically have a sign in the back of my head saying "don't believe anything they say, why would they ever report the truth".
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 08:54 AM

Quote:
The truth is most of the worlds i'lls are muslim induced murder . For whatever reason they feel the need to murder people .

The Muslim population of Israel is only about 3.8 per cent.

km
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:16 AM

Since km has chimed in, let me try a propositional approach.

1 ~ Islamists see themselves as being at war with the "West"

2 ~ The "West" sees itself as being as war with Islamists

3 ~ Islamists have cadres but no armies

4 ~ The "West" has armies but no cadres

5 ~ The "West" fights with armies

6 ~ Islamists fight with cadres

7 ~ Cadres attack with terrorism

8 ~ Armies attack with troops

9 ~ Therefore Islamists complain about "Western" war crimes

10 ~ Therefore the "West" complains bout Islamists being terrorists

11 ~ The "West" misunderstands Islamists as = Islam

12 ~ Islamists misunderstand the "West" = modernism

13 ~ Therefore Islamists attack all signs of modern life

14 ~ Therefore the "West" say all Muslims are terrorists

Discuss.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:18 AM

Quote:
Wow, the ABC news man makes a comment. I tend to agree with it. Steveg thinks my attitude is a "threat", Lea thinks that if I don't dig deeper into this one little statement that I'm doing scary stuff. Yep, I'm a huge threat and real scary.
Every time you stamp your feet and whine, you add to the evidence that you don't understand the danger in your POV. You thought you heard something, didn't even realize that someone else — a Senator from the very party who's hypocrisy you railed against in another thread — was responsible for the remark, and just accepted it as the last word.

Half a dozen people here have successfully pointed out the flaws in your argument, and have given you every opportunity to take a second look at the issue. And yet you pout anew and complain that you're under personal attack. It's one thing if you can defend your opinion with real facts. But to reject valid input with "I heard it from a guy" as your rationale is unfortunate. And lazy.

If I thought I heard a TV reporter say "iBookmaster is a pedo and he eats live kittens", you wouldn't mind if I just took that as gospel and warned everyone within earshot to keep their kids and cats away from you?

C'mon, man. Snap out of it and use your brain for something other than to keep your ears from colliding.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:26 AM

No, I don't agree with much of that... I don't know anyone who says all Muslims are terrorists, for example.

km
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:30 AM

Not meant for you km, just used the Quick Reply.

Just sayin' as a reminder to all.

Happy New Year. smile
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:32 AM

Well, don't tell him, but I'm inclined to see his point in this instance. eek

1. ~ It would be hard to deny that some of Israel's actions are terroristic in nature

2. ~ If something is "terroristic", let's man up and say it's terrorist — period — or follow the logic that I, for example, am shortistic grin

3. ~ By extension, there are precious few (if any) Muslims in that particular terrorist group

How'd I do, yoyo? laugh
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:37 AM

Infidel. mad


laugh grin shocked
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:49 AM

LOL grin

Silence!!! I keel you!!!!
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:51 AM

Congrats Steveg, you've now upgraded me to stomping my feet and whining. I'm dangerous, I'm dangerous. Warning, warning! Alert, alert!

C'mon, man. Snap out of it and use your brain for something other than to keep your ears from colliding.

You're doing a great job there of keeping things civil like Reboot is asking us to do. Thanks for the nice compliment. I'll try not to stoop to that level.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 09:51 AM

Done good, Steve.

I was just trying to find a point of resolution. When we're at war, the enemy always attacks us. If we are at war with Islamists then it follows that Islamists will attack us, and since Islamists don't have armies, the mode of attack is terroristic. To say that we're attacked by Islamists is a kind of "Well duh" sort of statement, parallel to saying that during WW II in the Pacific we were attacked by Japanese. No kidding!

The conclusion that all Muslims are Islamists and therefore terrorists is the illogical leap, of course, but it's understandable in light of the fact that recently the bulk of terrorist attacks have been conducted by Islamists. I say "bulk" because it leaves out, for instance, the attacks on the Spanish state by ETA, or the attacks on the Colombian state by the Sendero Luminoso, etc. But let's face it: we are at war with Islamists, so it shouldn't be a surprise that Islamists attack us.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 10:13 AM

Quote:
you've now upgraded me to stomping my feet and whining
Actually, that was a downgrade. grin

Quote:
You're doing a great job there of keeping things civil like Reboot is asking us to do.
I haven't said anything derogatory to you. If you consider a strongly opposite opinion uncivil, then we've all been uncivil, including you. And if you consider cajoling uncivil, then you lack the cajones for cajoling. No charge for the alliteration.

Quote:
I'll try not to stoop to that level.
I don't have to stoop either. I'm shortistic. smirk
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 10:31 AM

So after thinking about saying this line again, you approve of it?:

C'mon, man. Snap out of it and use your brain for something other than to keep your ears from colliding.

I would never say that to my friends here. It's ugly, plain and simple. Now, on top of that you are accusing me of having no "cajones". You keep it coming don't you with the insults. Then you top it all off with your signature that says "Did I just say that". I bet you make a lot of friends talking like that. I sure as h@ll don't want to take that method of conversing.

Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 10:56 AM


laugh laugh laugh



Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 12:05 PM

Een that case, I keel you back. And I take all your virgins! shocked
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 12:21 PM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Een that case, I keel you back. And I take all your virgins! shocked
That's all right, I quit, found out they're all guys.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 12:23 PM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Then you agree with misinformation, too. If you said that the Jihadists are fer better at PR than other terror groups, I would agree. But to say that "most terrorists are Muslims" is to substitute fear with knowledge. Not a good plan — unless you're a right wing nutbar.


I think your taking it a bit to broad - as in every single terrorist on the planet .

I took iBook remark as in (Al-Qeada and Jihadist) would be mostly muslim - I don't think he meant to throw in KKK and the others that was mentioned

Anyway that the way I read it - but you can carry on if you want
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 12:24 PM

Ok, I've learned my lesson. I'll never ever again use hyperbole or metaphor among the impossibly literal. You can stop whining now.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 12:30 PM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
Done good, Steve.

I was just trying to find a point of resolution. When we're at war, the enemy always attacks us. If we are at war with Islamists then it follows that Islamists will attack us, and since Islamists don't have armies, the mode of attack is terroristic. To say that we're attacked by Islamists is a kind of "Well duh" sort of statement, parallel to saying that during WW II in the Pacific we were attacked by Japanese. No kidding!

The conclusion that all Muslims are Islamists and therefore terrorists is the illogical leap, of course, but it's understandable in light of the fact that recently the bulk of terrorist attacks have been conducted by Islamists. I say "bulk" because it leaves out, for instance, the attacks on the Spanish state by ETA, or the attacks on the Colombian state by the Sendero Luminoso, etc. But let's face it: we are at war with Islamists, so it shouldn't be a surprise that Islamists attack us.


Humm I believe they attacked us first - remember they were attacking our overseas interest for a long time well before before 911 . So the US declared War on Terrorist and you don't have to be muslim either just a terrorist
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 12:44 PM

Quote:
I believe they attacked us first

Nah, twin towers of Lebanon was 1982.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 01:08 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
I believe they attacked us first

Nah, twin towers of Lebanon was 1982.

km


LOL you still with that lame arse excuse laugh you to funny

Why don't they attack Israel , well the terrorist still do but don't blame the US because we feel that Israel does have the right to exist .
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 02:06 PM

Quote:
we feel that Israel does have the right to exist .

What, with moving borders? Nations have fixed borders.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 02:18 PM

Oh yah. You lot know a thing or two about moving borders. Pip! Pip! Carry on...
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 02:23 PM

All that was before the UN Charter and Geneva Conventions.

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 02:42 PM



xxxxxxx



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:24 PM

[color:#FFFFFF]•[/color]•
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:28 PM




xxxxxxxxxxx



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:52 PM

••
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:56 PM

1. ~ The thread according to km.

2. ~ Bidness as usual. Naturally.

Discuss.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:57 PM

carp, I deliberately didn't get into who attacked who first. That's not the issue here. The same point applies to WW II--Japan attacked us first, and the result was the same: we were then at war. Since that's the case, it isn't a surprise that attacks on both sides continue. It's an asymmetrical war, as so many people have pointed out, but it's a war.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:59 PM

laugh A lot of New Yorkers have those, because their apartments are so small, y'know. Murphy beds, two-burner stoves, and folding dogs. grin


BTW, is it just me, or are you seeing spots, too?
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 03:59 PM





xxxxxxxxxxx



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:06 PM

Quote:
The thread according to km.

What dogs? Lea started that.

km

Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:12 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
we feel that Israel does have the right to exist .

What, with moving borders? Nations have fixed borders.

km


NO your coveted UN did that not the US <-- get it strait for once

Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:12 PM

I'm afraid I have started another thread that has gone to the dogs! laugh


Hey, wait a minute, I love dogs.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:18 PM

Quote:
Quote:
Nations have fixed borders.

UN did that.

No, I mean the moving borders.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:25 PM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
carp, I deliberately didn't get into who attacked who first. That's not the issue here. The same point applies to WW II--Japan attacked us first, and the result was the same: we were then at war. Since that's the case, it isn't a surprise that attacks on both sides continue. It's an asymmetrical war, as so many people have pointed out, but it's a war.


Sure it is what makes you think that it is not ? ?

If I walked over and slugged you in the face - I betcha your gonna defend yourself

No difference with the terrorist attacks - Which the US tried initially to deal with via diplomatic Channels .

But Hey
If you have murder on your mind as a mercenary <-- money talks and - Talk walks .
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:27 PM

Quote:
No, I mean the moving borders.


You mean the moving boarders in your mind <-- I see laugh
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:29 PM

You're not understanding the point. Does the analogy to the Japanese in WW II not clarify it?
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:30 PM

Could somebody please define moving borders? To me, it means what certain countries want theirs and others borders to be.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:31 PM

At least the discussion had stayed pretty linear. Once His Minus gets involved, it takes on more curls and kinks than a poodle's hair.


And I love dogs, too.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:36 PM

Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
Could somebody please define moving borders? To me, it means what certain countries want theirs and others borders to be.


KMs - obsession about the Palestinian and Israeli conflict - and latter wars .

!- Israel accepted the UN Resolution and the Arab league did not back in the 40s , which atrted this land grabbing mess

As soon as KM will realized that the Palestinians created their own shiit to live in , will go a long way
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:42 PM


No kidding. It's like he can't resist sucking the original topic down that idiot rabbit hole. And I did not start this with dogs. I started it with ~



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



But my point about his circular pointlessness was lost somewhere in the vast expanse of what's supposed to be his intellect. Oh, and I love dogs, too. But y'all already knew that.

KM, I vote we change your name from KeyMaker to DetourMaker. And this isn't solely based on your typical dodge of my original graphic. Soooooooo Really!



Posted by: w2ed

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 04:58 PM

Originally Posted By: Lea

No kidding. It's like he can't resist sucking the original topic down that idiot rabbit hole. And I did not start this with dogs. I started it with ~



xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx



But my point about his circular pointlessness was lost somewhere in the vast expanse of what's supposed to be his intellect. Oh, and I love dogs, too. But y'all already knew that.

KM, I vote we change your name from KeyMaker to DetourMaker. And this isn't solely based on your typical dodge of my original graphic. Soooooooo Really!





I have some other suggestions for names... >:)
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 05:03 PM

I believe - I started the (circle Jerk) tag laugh
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 06:01 PM

First, define "terrorist" and "terrorism" ... then get back to me on who most of them are ...
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 07:07 PM

Terrorism is what some people have tried to do to this thread and most of them are right here in this forum!
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 07:13 PM

And we're closet Muslims, too.





BOO! eek
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/29/09 08:30 PM

What, now we're terrorists because we don't see things the same way you do, Robert?

Wowzers. Don't look now, but you just trivialized the very word this thread is allegedly about.

Hey Six, good to see ya in here. Great to see some of the old gang, still kickin'.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 12:37 AM

Quote:
that idiot rabbit hole... I did not start this with dogs. I started it with...

That's right, you started it with the first road sign and continued it with the first dog. Why not just stick to the topic?

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 12:46 AM

Quote:
Could somebody please define moving borders?

It means taking over other people's land and claiming it as part of your own state or entity.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:00 AM

Quote:
I actually had come to a point in this thread that everybody "discussing" against me was actually just trying to put me down and not really put real evidence

It's all too common in this place I'm afraid... I find with some patrons that when they have no answers to points of substance they resort to personal smears to 'win' the argument at all costs.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:07 AM

Quote:
Israel accepted the UN Resolution and the Arab league did not... Palestinians created their own shiit to live in...

No, Red put you right on all that just before Christmas.

km
Posted by: eckhard

one side's interests .... - 12/30/09 02:43 AM

Originally Posted By: carp
- remember they were attacking our overseas interests for a long time well before before 911 . So the US declared War on Terrorist and you don't have to be muslim either just a terrorist


The problem is much older than any modern "islamist" attacks.
Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Palestine et.al. .... all have known and suffered western imperialism for well over a century.
Memories in that part of the world are longer than the short attention span you seem to be propagating.

"Your interests" as defined by US (and before that British of French) policy, is really absolutely none of your business. Claiming an interest doesn't mean actually being entitled to it.

For centuries, the imperial powers have simply imposed their views and "interests" while the affected peoples had no means of fighting back.
That has changed and now we all need to reconsider the natural order of things.

Just as the Imperialists didn't or don't ask what weapons they chose to suppress others, the oppressed now chose their own weapons, whether we like them or not. (Oppression, by the way, in recent times has most often meant, imposing and supporting obedient puppet regimes .. as in Iraq, Iran, etc.)

Considering the changes 911 has brought about, one might think that they have been a great deal more successful than could have been expected:
- regular wars don't work anymore
- civil rights in the West have been sacrificed to protection against these new forms of fighting
- the cost of conventional wars has financially crippled the USSR and now the USA
- as a result, former 3rd World nations, like China or India, have become powerful enough, to make even the US prez dance to their whistle

Time, to smell the coffee and change attitudes. Time to come off the pedestal and negotiate with the so-called terrorists, before they bring down the world economy even more.



Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:19 AM

Max, where do you want me to send your IPPDs (Improvised Post Padding Devices)? crazy
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:43 AM

The topic is whether or not most terrorists are Muslims. I gave you the point that, in the context of the discussion, Israel has engaged in activities that one could label as terrorism, thus arguing the original position. But, as usual, the thread has to become the unfortunate host to another one of your tired and stilted "lecture series". Ok, you're the authority on the Palestinian problem (waits for km to say, "No it's an Israeli problem"). And you'll rebut every post made until more people, well... go the Give it time route.

Lea's road sign was just one of several that I would post along the way here. I would favor this one at your entry point...

Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:50 AM

That's also off-topic... personal as opposed to substantive comment is no more useful for being delivered by signs than with words. I noticed your Israel concession but I was replying to carp who disagrees with it.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:57 AM

Quote:
You mean the moving boarders in your mind

No, the ones in Palestine.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 05:07 AM

Oh, that's rich, km. Very rich. The Master of The Last But Not Always Right Word,, the Self-Anointed Arbiter of Global Parenting Procedures, the Protector of Heterosexual Purity, and the Minister of Attrition has added his voice to the chorus of those who refuse to accept any rational but their own.

Robert, you opened this thread based on something you thought you heard on TV. Without looking any further into the origins of said comment, without anything but a personal bias, and without even the barest willingness to consider any of the mountains of fact that were placed at your feet, you stamped your feet, shut your eyes and ears tight, and dug your heals in on a wildly misguided premise. And when your intractability resulted in amped up rhetoric and analogy in an attempt to open your eyes, you whine that people are attacking you.

Grow a spine, man. Come to the fight with ammo and expect to take your lumps in the process. We all do. Even km does — as maddening as he can be. He gives as good as he gets, and only whimpers now and then (mostly when he doesn't actually win).

Sheesh!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 05:30 AM

Quote:
Oh, that's rich, km. Very rich. The Master of The Last But Not Always Right Word,, the Self-Anointed Arbiter of Global Parenting Procedures, the Protector of Heterosexual Purity, and the Minister of Attrition has added his voice to the chorus of those who refuse to accept any rational but their own.

Robert...

Replying to Robert doesn't require a long preamble about me, you know.

Quote:
km... when he doesn't actually win...

When I don't actually win I'm the first to admit it... quite a few of you lot on the other hand seem to be permanently ducking and diving.

I can see the way this is working again... get some parallel sub-thread running alongside Robert's by launching recurring personal sorties and then try to put the blame on me for distracting attention from the topic.

km
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 05:45 AM

Sticks and stones Steveg. I have a feeling my spine is a lot tougher than yours. I just don't try to be a jerk all the time. That's the difference.

Without looking any further into the origins of said comment

Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Looking in to origins of a comment. You either find it to be true or not. It is true. It bothers you that it's true. Get over it.


without anything but a personal bias

I'd say the same bias as yours and everybody who denies it's true.


mountains of facts

That's the biggest laugher of all. You really are a joke.


you stamped your feet, shut your eyes and ears tight, and dug your heals in on a wildly misguided premise

Look in the mirror Steveg, you're still posting the same whining and stamping!


you whine that people are attacking you

Call it what you want but there were plenty of attacks and you are leading the attack but you're getting a little of your own medicine in this reply.


Sheesh!

Stop whining.


You mentioned "mountains of facts". The only thing I've seen mountains of is personal attacks with you leading the way. People have posted other terrorists groups but none at the present time are as big a threat as radical muslims.

Go find more things to whine and attack me about Steveg. It seems to be what you're best at.





Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 06:21 AM

Quote:
Replying to Robert doesn't require a long preamble about me, you know.
Still trying to engineer the whole process, I see.

Quote:
I can see the way this is working again... get some parallel sub-thread running alongside Robert's by launching recurring personal sorties and then try to put the blame on me for distracting attention from the topic.
If the shoe fits (and it sooooo does)... I think that about covers it. Over, and mercifully, out. Turn out the lights before you leave, 'k?
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 06:22 AM

Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
Sticks and stones Steveg. I have a feeling my spine is a lot tougher than yours. I just don't try to be a jerk all the time. That's the difference.

Without looking any further into the origins of said comment

Stupidest thing I've ever heard. Looking in to origins of a comment. You either find it to be true or not. It is true. It bothers you that it's true. Get over it.


without anything but a personal bias

I'd say the same bias as yours and everybody who denies it's true.


mountains of facts

That's the biggest laugher of all. You really are a joke.


you stamped your feet, shut your eyes and ears tight, and dug your heals in on a wildly misguided premise

Look in the mirror Steveg, you're still posting the same whining and stamping!


you whine that people are attacking you

Call it what you want but there were plenty of attacks and you are leading the attack but you're getting a little of your own medicine in this reply.


Sheesh!

Stop whining.


You mentioned "mountains of facts". The only thing I've seen mountains of is personal attacks with you leading the way. People have posted other terrorists groups but none at the present time are as big a threat as radical muslims.

Go find more things to whine and attack me about Steveg. It seems to be what you're best at.


Welcome to 'Club Catch22' eek
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 06:30 AM

Originally Posted By: eckhard
[quote=carp]Considering the changes 911 has brought about, one might think that they have been a great deal more successful than could have been expected:
- regular wars don't work anymore
- civil rights in the West have been sacrificed to protection against these new forms of fighting
- the cost of conventional wars has financially crippled the USSR and now the USA
- as a result, former 3rd World nations, like China or India, have become powerful enough, to make even the US prez dance to their whistle

Time, to smell the coffee and change attitudes. Time to come off the pedestal and negotiate with the so-called terrorists, before they bring down the world economy even more.


Hey, Eck. I suppose I am more cautious than you about the supposed bedrock changes 911 have brought about. I think regular wars can pop up at any time. There has been no structural change of any significance that I can see. A longer view at history - a less ADD-addled one, if you will - would suggest that we are merely in a lull phase between major world conflicts. We haven't evolved past them at all. You know, such bold prounouncements remind me of that epic fail of a tome by Francis Fukuyama, The End of History. Remember him? He was a proponent of the Reagan Doctrine and the rise of neo-conservatism. His jaded eagerness to proclaim the end of history may ironically have consigned him to the dustbin of history; well, time will tell.

I do agree however that projecting tremendous power in overseas conflicts is a habit of empire which usually ends up helping to bankrupt any particular empire. I suspect America is sliding into that very position. Projecting muscle is an expensive business. It tends to drain the coffers over time.

I think what's more likely to have contributed to the current situation is the diminishing willingness / ability of the West to manufacture its own goods and the commoditization of our consumer fetish for 'faster cheaper better,' even if it means buying stuff made outside of our borders. You do that long enough and your own economy gets hollowed out.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 06:57 AM

I'm truly sorry if I've dented your feelings, but know this: I make no apologies for my remarks, nor do I take them back. Not unless I am unquestionably proven wrong.

You opened this thread with an unsupported and inaccurate statement. Despite being shown repeatedly by many people just how inaccurate it is, you refuse to support your opinion with fact. Having said that, opinions are just that — opinions — and are subsequently hard to pin down as right or wrong. But what can be proven right or wrong is the basis for any given opinion. And you've totally failed to prove that the basis of your opinion is right, while others have shown that basis to be extremely weak. Unfortunately, when you hold to a position such as this one on the basis of bias alone, and you flatly refuse to accept any other POV — or worse, the truth — you expose yourself as a bigot (and spare me the Mohamed Ali worship — it has zilch to do with the issue).

But there's no point in pressing this any further with you, Robert. Because instead of confronting even one of your detractors here with credible support for your position; instead of producing a single fact or shred of evidence in your favor, all you do is pout. No one has attacked you personally. No one has said "I don't like Robert". But we have attacked your opinion, and we have said that we don't like it. And we've all provided lucid, factual support. This thread is about an egregious and poorly informed mis-characterization of Muslims, not about iBookmaster.

Have a nice day and a Happy New Year.
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 07:22 AM

.

Quote:
No one has said "I don't like Robert". But we have attacked your opinion, and we have said that we don't like it.


Thank you, Steve. That's what I believe to be in most of these discussions. Difference of opinions, which in this day and age seems to be the norm. But we don't have to engage in discussions to the extreme as to wreck relationships built up over many years.

I know this will come as a big shock to you - - - - but I do not agree with everything you say or do in these forums. But, you are one of my favorite people here! You have a way of cheering me up and making me laugh.

I have a double edged tongue that gets away with me occasionally. Less than it did in past years, I hope wink


.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 07:32 AM

Quote:
I know this will come as a big shock to you - - - - but I do not agree with everything you say or do in these forums. But, you are one of my favorite people here! You have a way of cheering me up and making me laugh.
You are right, Kate! I am shocked! SHOCKED, I say!!! shocked [aside]Frankly, my dear, if you agree with as much as 5% of what I say, you should check yourself into a mental health clinic today![/aside]

Now, if you'll pardon me, the batteries in my light sabre need charging. Here bunny, heeeeeeeeere bunny...
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 07:39 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
if you agree with as much as 5% of what I say, you should check yourself into a mental health clinic today!
Okay, never mind. That one's just too easy, and I've got to run out for the day grin
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 07:40 AM


5 percent?

You wish!

[/sarcasm]


wink wink


.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 07:48 AM

Well, it was a serious proposition: define "terrorist" ... until you can get to a definition that everyone agrees with (good luck with that, btw), it's pretty useless to make a blanket statement that one group or another is the major offender, since the offense itself has a malleable definition ...

One man's "terrorist" is another's "freedom fighter". The British during the Revolutionary War regarded colonial insurgents as terrorists, since they didn't adopt the accepted fighting tactics of the day. I believe China currently labels the Dalai Lama as a terrorist, for instance, although I think that claim leaves many in the rest of the world just aghast. Depending on the POV, either the Israelis or the Palestinians are terrorists (or maybe both. Or neither) ... You just joked (I hope ;-) that terrorism was being practiced in this thread -- and even though it was tongue-in-cheek, it does highlight that what one person sees as "terrorism" others may see in a completely different light ...


But even if we do have a common, universally-accepted definition of the offense, what value does it bring to the table to even make a blanket statement such as that made by the ABC commentator in the first place? Most Muslims wouldn't recognize the "religion" many of these groups embrace to begin with, so where does that get us? It's not like the solution is to round-up all the Muslims in the world or bar all of them from traveling to the US ... Even using the belief in Islam as a marker for "terrorism" *at best* might be a very, very, VERY sloppy and generalized tool for profiling for potential attacks against the West in general and the US in particular. Nominally, though, such blanket generalizations probably cause more damage than they prevent ...

Quite honestly, I don't see where "Most terrorists are Muslim" really moves anybody in a positive or helpful direction ...
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 08:15 AM

QUICK RESPONSE:


IMO: iBookmaster had no prior knowledge that everyone
was so quick to negate his statement because we'd all
pretty much thrashed it all out at least 20 times before
he got here...

I think reasoned responses would have been better than
"WE'RE RIGHT & YOU'RE WRONG!" type blanket statements,
and once the All-Too-Familiar name calling began..
...it was already too late. frown

Welcome to yet another of the ongoing divisive threads
where one member pretends to take the high-road to
set everyone else at odds with the latest member to
blunder into "the Web".

Sheesh! eek Here we go again.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 08:15 AM

Tell me, Celandine, would you like to revisit "petri dishes" and "buying my children on CraigsList"? How about "poking the wrong hole" or "flipping my wife over"?

Yeah, I now know what you posted last week. But before you jump to more of your trademark misguided conclusions, you need to know that someone who is generally known to be quite supportive of you was so shocked by the utter depravity and rage within your post that they copied the text (fortunately, before the post was deleted), and then agonized for several days over whether they should share it with me. It was pretty shocking stuff — even for you. But rather than anger, I actually felt pity for you. Your words were a blinding spotlight on a dark and hate-filled mind.

So now, you have two things to ponder:
1. Which one of your friends threw you under the bus. And...
2. If or when I may choose to republish your words for everyone's benefit — especially Robert, so he can see what a real personal attack is.

At least now you have some company, because Payback is the other Bitch in the room.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 08:30 AM


Actually.. I stand by that post (and also kept a copy)
It wasn't me who deleted it.
Pity is, not everyone "gets" my gallows sense of humor. wink

What lead to it was my disappointment that that same member
joined in the ongoing "assassination" of km I'd really
thought they were above it.. frown

It hurt so bad, I couldn't even bring myself to PM the person
to let them know how disappointing it was.

So you've driven yet ANOTHER of your TradeMark™ Wedges
between forum members. That must really make your day. smile

HAPPY NEW YEAR

Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 08:51 AM


Considering the incredibly hateful things you've posted in this forum, it's stunning that you don't see the irony of your whining about name calling and personal attacks.



Posted by: Jashue

Re: one side's interests .... - 12/30/09 09:05 AM

Originally Posted By: eckhard
Originally Posted By: carp
- remember they were attacking our overseas interests for a long time well before before 911 . So the US declared War on Terrorist and you don't have to be muslim either just a terrorist


The problem is much older than any modern "islamist" attacks.
Iran, Iraq, Pakistan, Palestine et.al. .... all have known and suffered western imperialism for well over a century.
Memories in that part of the world are longer than the short attention span you seem to be propagating.

"Your interests" as defined by US (and before that British of French) policy, is really absolutely none of your business. Claiming an interest doesn't mean actually being entitled to it.

For centuries, the imperial powers have simply imposed their views and "interests" while the affected peoples had no means of fighting back.
That has changed and now we all need to reconsider the natural order of things.

Just as the Imperialists didn't or don't ask what weapons they chose to suppress others, the oppressed now chose their own weapons, whether we like them or not. (Oppression, by the way, in recent times has most often meant, imposing and supporting obedient puppet regimes .. as in Iraq, Iran, etc.)

Considering the changes 911 has brought about, one might think that they have been a great deal more successful than could have been expected:
- regular wars don't work anymore
- civil rights in the West have been sacrificed to protection against these new forms of fighting
- the cost of conventional wars has financially crippled the USSR and now the USA
- as a result, former 3rd World nations, like China or India, have become powerful enough, to make even the US prez dance to their whistle

Time, to smell the coffee and change attitudes. Time to come off the pedestal and negotiate with the so-called terrorists, before they bring down the world economy even more.



Very well said!

The thought that, "Claiming an interest doesn't mean actually being entitled to it" resonated particularly well with me, but sadly, I doubt many Americans have any idea of what you mean by that.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:08 AM

Are you really trying to rationalize that filth as gallows humor? Are you going to say it's a "pity that no one gets" why you would drag total, unconnected strangers (to you) — someone's wife and children — into your sick vendetta? You're further around the bend that even I would have guessed.

Good. Stand by it. In fact, stand in it. You may even get the chance to stew in it. And see a proctologist about your particular wedge.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:35 AM


BTW..
I don't think it was "Depraved" I feel it was "INSTRUCTIONAL"
Other than that, what it was;
was you're own words chewed up and spat back in your face.

Thread after thread thrashing him over his opinion on IVF
and again casting yourself as a some kind of High-Road-Hero
simply for choosing adoption as an alternative.
GOODONYA! Can we move on now?

NOPE! now you drag it out again to address the Stem Cell Post.
I thought perhaps you'd been doing it the wrong way..
( blush almost said "Arse Backward".. but the humorless may not
see the humor in that as well)

20 Threads about homosexuals. SHEESH! ENOUGH ALREADY!
Why drag it into the STEM CELLS thread AGAIN! just to
reinforce the divisions you'd set-up between members in the
OTHER 20 threads.

When you made the 51's "SHYTE" reference I was so disgusted
that I started to point that fact out ..
when it all just gelled, and I spat it all into one single post
that (AFAI'm Concerned) Addressed all the issues in one single
post (As opposed to the now familiar 200-300 you've used)

Sorry so many people missed the VERY Pointed POINT.

Which is YOU have very specific issues, and opinions
..yet feel justified to crucify anyone that differs from
those opinions,
(all the while yammering that they are doing the same)

This thread is just another Example.

What bothers me about it is that you draw everyone else
into your fights.. getting them all to "Choose Sides" and you
don't care a whit what it does to the community as a whole.
..As long as YOU WIN..

Sorry it makes you crazy that km doesn't let you win.
Sorry it forces the rest of us to sit through day after day
of you yammering and calling "His Minus" names. while the
rest of the Political forum grinds to a halt.

Hey!
All anyone has to do is Search for "LONGEST THREADS"
to bear this out.


IMO.. if there's anything "sad" it's that.
You'd wreck everything just to get your way.

*Stands Back & Waits for your Friends to delete this post
and ban me for standing up to you.*
I still haven't figured out their seemingly random rules
for who can call people names for 10 pages at a time & who can't.

*Whatever*

..anyway..
I agree with iBook; you have your own bias to deal with.
Try removing the plank from your own eye..
..before trying to remove the speck of sawdust from everyone else's.

Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:37 AM

As usual, eck hits the nail on the head. The Middle East is the "Middle East" only from the perspective of Europe. Historically, it's Europe and its imperial reach that precipitated the whole problem, Europe and its three world wars (I'm counting the Napoleonic Wars as a world war, not capitalized) that screwed up the world for the next couple of centuries, and Europe and its horrific treatment of Jews from the fall of Israel in the 1st century to the present that produce the particular focus for warfare in the current state of the Middle East. The US gets involved as the successor empire. Silly us. We should have known better.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:46 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Are you really trying to rationalize that filth as gallows humor? Are you going to say it's a "pity that no one gets" why you would drag total, unconnected strangers (to you) — someone's wife and children — into your sick vendetta? You're further around the bend that even I would have guessed.

Good. Stand by it. In fact, stand in it. You may even get the chance to stew in it. And see a proctologist about your particular wedge.


LOL THANX! ANOTHER 2 SHYTE References. sick
T'was YOU stepped in it..
..just as I was making that very point.

BTW
Wasn't that why you had to leave the forum for a year?
..after posting all those pictures of Feces in the forum?



Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:53 AM


Thank you
for dragging the thread back to the topic.
It's a GOOD Topic.. and makes for civil debate.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 10:30 AM

A photo of a turd in a toilet in response to someone else's post containing a scatological metaphor. One such photo in all the years I've been here. I think your memory is a tad dull. And no, Ms. Carnac, despite your most energetic assumptions, I put my forum activity on hold — months after that single post that you've magically multiplied, I should add — quite voluntarily and for several reasons, none of which were even remotely connected to said post (and I repeat "post" as in singular).

And let's not forget that when I did return to the forum, you couldn't wait to start baiting me, though I made it quite clear I had nothing to say to you — other than to set the record straight on some of your more fantastic theories on what was going on in my life. As if it was any more of your business than which of my wife's holes I poke, or where my kids come from.

Yet you sit there, smoke pouring from your keyboard and ears, ranting about attacks on you and feces and maligning others and... good God what barge-load of twisted irony!

You've totally abused and voided the Victim Card, Celandine, and blown holes in your own credibility. Time to try a new scam.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 11:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
QUICK RESPONSE:


IMO: iBookmaster had no prior knowledge that everyone
was so quick to negate his statement because we'd all
pretty much thrashed it all out at least 20 times before
he got here...

I think reasoned responses would have been better than
"WE'RE RIGHT & YOU'RE WRONG!" type blanket statements,
and once the All-Too-Familiar name calling began..
...it was already too late. frown

Welcome to yet another of the ongoing divisive threads
where one member pretends to take the high-road to
set everyone else at odds with the latest member to
blunder into "the Web".

Sheesh! eek Here we go again.


Here we go again


again.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 11:46 AM

Quote:
someone.. copied the text

Who was that then?

Quote:
then agonized for several days over whether they should share it...

I don't get it... copied a post but wasn't sure why?

km
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 12:40 PM

IMO
it's just another attempt at create unease, distrust and hurt feelings.

Saying so in the way he did is a bit typical HS Bully BS.

If the person who sent it didn't understand the reason behind
why I posted what I posted, then they certainly thought they
were doing the right thing.
Maybe they were feeling the same kind of hurt disappointment
that I was feeling that day.

In any case.. I did have a reason..
and as usual, it was very measured.
Despite what he'd have people think,
although my humor has a decided bite
to it I'm rarely(if ever)out of control. wink
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 12:53 PM

Quote:
If the person who sent it didn't understand the reason...

Why copy a post he could read for himself? No one could have known it would be taken down.

km
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:19 PM


Good Point! wink
That's not only why you're a lawyer
but why you-know-who wants to get rid of you.

That was my first impulse:
that it was the same "MEMBER" that deleted it.

Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:21 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
Israel accepted the UN Resolution and the Arab league did not... Palestinians created their own shiit to live in...

No, Red put you right on all that just before Christmas.

km


I and put you both right shortly after
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:26 PM

Steve and Celandine:

Have you two ever actually slept together?

Just wonderin'
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:28 PM

Originally Posted By: Jashue
Steve and Celandine:

Have you two ever actually slept together?

Just wonderin'


LOL - looks like their still married laugh
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine

Good Point! wink
That's not only why you're a lawyer


I dunno... sucking up to Km makes me ill, actually. That dude needs no support... he's a one-(peevishly waistcoated) man-wrecking crew... like it or not, he's quite capable of creating his own dodges and feints.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:53 PM

Originally Posted By: VarmintBlubber
Originally Posted By: Celandine

Good Point! wink
That's not only why you're a lawyer


I dunno... sucking up to Km makes me ill, actually. That dude needs no support... he's a one-(peevishly waistcoated) man-wrecking crew... like it or not, he's quite capable of creating his own dodges and feints.


Agree
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 01:55 PM

The two of you are the cutest couple ever. Together, you're like the Not-So-Immaculate Assumption.

I didn't see the original post because I was out at a client meeting, and by the time I logged back in, it had been pulled — which is what your friend thought might happen, based on it's disgusting content, and why said friend copied it immediately, thinking I should know what was said. But they waffled for a few days, being unsure of how I would react.

So much for your latest "conspiracy theory", and so much for why km is a lawyer — who has no clients, since he himself has said "they get in the way of his living his life."

Seriously, do you lack the basic self-control to stop embarrassing yourself? No problem, If you want to continue to stink up the room with your bile, you can do it by yourself. Or you can start a support group for the steveg-bullied. I'll even design a logo for you.

Happy New Year. And don't let the ball drop on your head.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:01 PM

Hundreds of times. And I've got video! I'll send you one. blush



*wakes up screaming from nightmare* shocked
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:03 PM

Watch it, Sweetcakes, or I'll tell all about you and me! shocked blush

Now gimme a big smooch! laugh
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:12 PM

Quote:
it had been pulled — which is what your friend thought might happen, based on it's disgusting content

Bit unlikely... there's more disgusting stuff still up on the board... like your several recommendations for masturbatory lubricants and puerile homophobic innuendo.

Quote:
they waffled for a few days, being unsure of how I would react.

What, was there more than one of 'em? Previously it was only one person.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:22 PM

Quote:
Bit unlikely... there's more disgusting stuff still up on the board... like your several recommendations for masturbatory lubricants and puerile homophobic innuendo.
So why hasn't it been pulled then? Strike One!

Quote:
What, was there more than one of 'em? Previously it was only one person.
"They" as colloquial shorthand for "he or she". But you knew that. You're just trying to affect the appearance of a good cross examination. Strikes Two and Three!
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:27 PM

I'll give you the second point but the first one is about whether anyone would expect a post to be taken down, which is very rare.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:47 PM

Evidently, you saw the original post. Can you tell me that dragging someone's family into an argument isn't over the line? Can you tell me you read that crap about poking one's wife in the wrong hole and "flipping her over for a change", and alluding to IVF children as having come from a petrie dish and adopted children having been "bought on CraigsList", and didn't think "Wow, if a Mod sees that it's toast?"

You know how you like to accuse me of being indifferent to issues which I view with less urgency than you? Well, back atcha. If you can tell me you didn't expect that to be yanked in a heartbeat, or didn't think it should have been, then you two deserve each other.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:51 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
I'll give you the second point but the first one is about whether anyone would expect a post to be taken down, which is very rare.
Yes it is rare. We have edited references to the F word and C word, which is happening too much anymore, but it is the first time I have ever deleted a whole post due to content. I was hoping I never would have to censor but for some reason it appears we are not capable of doing it ourselves anymore. It has been getting worse. It wasn't just the crudeness, it was brining family into it, a line was crossed IMO.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 02:55 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine

Actually.. I stand by that post (and also kept a copy)
It wasn't me who deleted it.
Pity is, not everyone "gets" my gallows sense of humor. wink
I deleted it because it wasn't just a gallows sense of humor, it was outright crude gutter talk plus you brought his family into it, and it even embarrassed me to read it.

"Being respectful, and civil to one another, is the condition for using the MacTech Forums."

Everybody needs to settle down and chill out. Let's start the New Year out right.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 03:11 PM

Quote:
Evidently, you saw the original post. Can you tell me that dragging someone's family into an argument isn't over the line?

Well, Mrs Keymaker is none too impressed by the accusations you direct at me... my kids think it's a laugh but what if they if they didn't?

km
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 03:17 PM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
Originally Posted By: Celandine

Actually.. I stand by that post (and also kept a copy)
It wasn't me who deleted it.
Pity is, not everyone "gets" my gallows sense of humor. wink
I deleted it because it wasn't just a gallows sense of humor, it was outright crude gutter talk plus you brought his family into it, and it even embarrassed me to read it.

"Being respectful, and civil to one another, is the condition for using the MacTech Forums."

Everybody needs to settle down and chill out. Let's start the New Year out right.


I still think the post was more funny than crude
and IMO since steve insists on dragging his family
into the argument he's repeatedly had with km
then it's "Fair-Game" same as when Sista' Sarah
(Sarah Palin to you ;)) does it to attack people.

You want things Civil smile NO PROBLEM
When Steve Inc. stops attacking people under his
persistent cover of "JUST BUSTING BALLS" then I
will to. Agreed?

Of course not.. because now he'll go into his song
and dance about "HAVING THE RIGHT to BUST BALLS"
...so there you have it.

He has NO RIGHT to harass people, no matter WHAT
He Calls It. It Does Not Excuse The CRAPPY Behavior.


You want PEACE? Then enforce it On BOTH SIDES
rather than selectively for your friends.
No more SNARKY BS asides that you pretend not
to notice, And cut the demeaning names that he
calls people 20 times a day & gets away with.

You want CIVIL? No Problem.. but it works BOTH WAYS
...or not at all.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 03:34 PM

I didn't even read your response past the first line, you obviously still don't get it. Worry about yourself, and let me deal with everyone else. You don't know what goes on behind the scenes.

This is not up for debate, heed what has been said to you, seriously.

Case closed.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 03:42 PM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
Originally Posted By: Celandine

Actually.. I stand by that post (and also kept a copy)
It wasn't me who deleted it.
Pity is, not everyone "gets" my gallows sense of humor. wink
I deleted it because it wasn't just a gallows sense of humor, it was outright crude gutter talk plus you brought his family into it, and it even embarrassed me to read it.

"Being respectful, and civil to one another, is the condition for using the MacTech Forums."


Everybody needs to settle down and chill out. Let's start the New Year out right.




Steveg you need to read this post by Reboot more than anybody here. You have personally attacked my with everything but "I hate Robert". But, that's fine. Like I said, I have more cajones than you think. I'm glad that by me stooping to your level has brought you down off of your high horse ladder. Unfortunately that's what it takes. So, from here on out, I choose to ignore you like a bad egg unless you can get to a civil level. Anybody else want to talk, I'd be glad to. If you are going to be a jerk and be uncivil and personally attack me, I'll ignore you too.

After all the bull, I have yet to see any evidence that the original statement is true. If it's not, name the group that is more prominent than the radical muslims.

Six of one, I'll first give you the standard definition of terrorism:

the use of violence and intimidation in the pursuit of political aims.


There it is. But, I think Americans general definition is:

a club of thugs that want to kill as many Americans as possible. Hopefully through blowing up planes, or running them into buildings, blowing up buildings with as many Americans in them or a chemical or nuclear attack to kill as many Americans as possible.



Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 03:50 PM


Congratulations on your open mindedness.

Thanx Again for all your help
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:01 PM

Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
But, I think Americans general definition is:

a club of thugs that want to kill as many Americans as possible. Hopefully through blowing up planes, or running them into buildings, blowing up buildings with as many Americans in them or a chemical or nuclear attack to kill as many Americans as possible.


I think this definition would still apply perfectly well to Timothy McVeigh, or to any number of wackos (American by birth) who think their country requires their (violent) help. No radical Muslims need apply. Just violent radicals.

Terrorism is terrorism. Boiling it down to what it means for Americans is beside the point.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:05 PM

Quote:
I still think the post was more funny than crude
Speaks volumes about you.

Quote:
and IMO since steve insists on dragging his family
into the argument he's repeatedly had with km
You are hallucinating.

Now, I've got my marching orders, I suggest you heed yours.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:06 PM

Yes, terrorism is terrorism Max. But the second definition I gave is different from the dictionary definition.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:09 PM

But that deviation from the textbook is full of holes, Robert. At least, insofar as your theory of radical Muslims is concerned.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:17 PM

To add another perspective.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:27 PM

Maybe it is full of holes Max but, you know how it is. Dictionaries give the shortest, plainest definitions possible.

As another example, here's the definition of dictionary. It has 2 actually:

1) a book that lists the words of a language in alphabetical order and gives their meaning, or that gives the equivalent words in a different language.

2) a reference book on any subject, the items of which are arranged in alphabetical order


Actually, I'm glad you brought up the full of holes statement. Because it relates my original statement from the ABC news man to a dictionary definition. Both have a short, plain explanation. You either understand it and agree with it or not. There is no digging deeper into trying to prove it wrong. You either accept it, believe it or not.


I'm editing this because I happened to skip by you saying "that deviation from the textbook". Sorry. Still, I'll leave the original reply in this reply.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:34 PM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
To add another perspective.



I'll be waiting to see what the next attempt to try to bomb a plane be. Or another 9/11 plane ramming into a building. That seems to be the popular terrorist thing to do to America now. I'll be shocked out of my tree if it's not a muslim. Let's wait and see.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:38 PM

I expect you're right. We are, after all, at war with Islamists. The surprise would be if they did not attack, or try to attack.
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:50 PM

LOL

Indeed.
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 04:52 PM


Quote:
Actually, I'm glad you brought up the full of holes statement. Because it relates my original statement from the ABC news man to a dictionary definition.

Both have a short, plain explanation.

• You either understand it and agree with it or not.

• There is no digging deeper into trying to prove it wrong.

• You either accept it, believe it or not.


Some persons are saying they do not agree with the statement [and not saying they do not understand the statement]

But it appears people who have difference of opinion on the matter would like to dig deeper and suggest what is wrong with the statement. smile It's called discussion. Nothing is chipped in marble but tombstones. Everything else is up for grabs!

I accept a lot of things I do not totally understand. Some day they may come up for discussion and revelation among friends or here. If you really mean I can believe the statement or not, then I do not understand why you get so het up and continue to say derogatory things aimed at persons who do not believe as you believe.



Kate

p.s. [in ref to someone else suggesting people take "sides"]

I have not taken "sides" with anyone on any topic discussed here. I told Steve I agreed with a statement he made. I didn't join his Band of Angels, get a badge, pay any dues, or carry his banner! I just agree now and then with something anyone here might say! smile


.
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 05:17 PM

Kate, I guess that's where I differ from everybody else. I take it at face value. No written in stone but at face value. To me it doesn't require digging deeper. It's far too simple a statement to have to dig into. To me you either agree with it or not.

This would be a similar statement and just as simple:

Not all dog attacks are pit bulls but most dog attacks are pit bulls.

See, doesn't require digging deeper. You either agree with it or not.


I guess people who disagree with the original statement don't like that I posted it. Not so much the statement. This applies to the way things were at the old MacCentral. If a more "respected" member of the forum like MrB (who I still think is the smartest overall guy on this forum, great to have that title huh MrB) this thing wouldn't have blown up like it has. It would have been replied to more respectfully. And that's what Reboot has kindly asked us to do. In this thread that hasn't happened. Even me, I stooped to Steveg's schoolyard kid level but it worked. But, I'm ignoring him from now on.

Please point out where I have said derogatory things to others that didn't already get ugly with me. Not including my last post to Steveg. I meant that to be as ugly as he has been.

Or tell me if I'm missing something here. Are you saying that he hasn't said ugly things to me but I have to him? The back and forth between Steveg & I has been the most outstanding ugly.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 05:50 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
Congratulations on your open mindedness.
I just read your post, and to respond, you did more than just bust balls, you crossed a line, but you don't see it as that. If someone else crosses it we'll be on them too. Hope we never have to again.

Let's move on.
Posted by: carp

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 07:09 PM

Originally Posted By: iBookmaster
Maybe it is full of holes Max but, you know how it is. Dictionaries give the shortest, plainest definitions possible.

As another example, here's the definition of dictionary. It has 2 actually:

1) a book that lists the words of a language in alphabetical order and gives their meaning, or that gives the equivalent words in a different language.

2) a reference book on any subject, the items of which are arranged in alphabetical order


Actually, I'm glad you brought up the full of holes statement. Because it relates my original statement from the ABC news man to a dictionary definition. Both have a short, plain explanation. You either understand it and agree with it or not. There is no digging deeper into trying to prove it wrong. You either accept it, believe it or not.


I'm editing this because I happened to skip by you saying "that deviation from the textbook". Sorry. Still, I'll leave the original reply in this reply.


I tend to agree with the dictionary definitions - there has to be something that draws a line so to speak

You cannot just (stub an Toe) and create a NEW definition that overrides and established one

Just My Opinion
Maybe I can create my own words and then my own definitions <-- Yeah thats it
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:05 PM


File this under "As the Thread Turns," but one of the most remarkable things about our language is that it can and does change. New words make it into dictionaries, old ones slip off the map and definitions are surprisingly fluid. yoyo can cover this one with much more authority and grace.

But really, the evolution of new definitions is an ongoing thing. The most obvious example I can think of would involve the G word, but rather than risk another Shootout at the Circle J, I'll let you read between my lines. wink



Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:23 PM

It's not just that words change in meaning and connotation, Lea, but also that dictionaries give a bare definition--useful of course, but not really adequate for any sustained argument, certainly for abstract terms or complex ideas. The parallel discussion on "natural" and "unnatural" as it applies to ethics is a case in point. But that's a different kettle of fish, barrel of monkeys, can of worms . . . . .
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 09:36 PM


Very well put, and I especially like the idea that our dictionaries are only as smart as we are. But consider, this is coming from a MacBabe who just typed "evolution is an ongoing thing." smile



Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/30/09 10:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Lea
"evolution is an ongoing thing."


In some places. wink
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 12:08 AM


Doano..
I was able to understand & accept Evolution
as a logical process ever since Grade School.

LOL Talk about when things became accepted knowledge:
I'm old enough to recall when 'Continental Drift' was
still considered one scientist's hair-brained theory.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 03:45 AM

... army of aardvarks. grin
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 04:08 AM

Quote:
The most obvious example I can think of would involve the G word...

The G word that has been so ruthlessly hijacked from our beloved English language? frown

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 07:25 AM


Context, for those that bother to care about your post this AM, KM. Your cherry picking "quote" was part of my response to the observation that a definition found in the dictionary is the definitive end of a discussion. I actually said ~


But really, the evolution of new definitions is an ongoing thing. The most obvious example I can think of would involve the G word, but rather than risk another Shootout at the Circle J, I'll let you read between my lines


Please note my comment about the Circle J. Hopefully, my response to you this AM will be the only one. It would be so nice to see us not allow your obvious homophobia to take us all down another rathole thread that never ends because you just don't want it too.

We Yanks have a saying ~ You, sir, need to get a f'n life.



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 03:59 PM

Quote:
your obvious homophobia

How do you go from a cultural quotation (Stephen Fry) to "obvious homophobia"? I think you must have missed the link but you really need to exercise more restraint in my opinion... and for the record I refute the accusation.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 04:43 PM

The leap from your assertion to Lea's* is not all that far.




*And other's.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 05:00 PM

Quote:
The leap from your assertion to Lea's* is not all that far.

You don't believe in treatment but some people seek it out... homophobia doesn't come into it.

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 05:04 PM



Walk . . . away . . . from . . . the . . . keyboard . . .



Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 05:25 PM

I believe in treatment big time. But for real illnesses and health conditions. Sexual preference is neither. But apparently you think it is. Let's say, hypothetically, that you're not homophobic. Then I would have to say your grossly misinformed. Pick your poison.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 06:03 PM

Quote:
Let's say, hypothetically, that you're not homophobic.

I suppose the more often my alleged homophobia is discussed and disseminated the more likely it is that people will believe it, so that would be a result for you would it not? To do no more than quote Stephen Fry from a television comedy sketch and be immediately attacked for homophobia shows how reactionary and intolerant some of you lot really are. As for being misinformed, I'm afraid it's you who's misinformed.

km


Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 12/31/09 06:38 PM

Statements such as your recent whopper will lead people to believe your homophobia. No discussion needed. Self-disseminating. If, in fact, we're wrong, it's because you haven't done a very good job of proving your case, or disproving ours. And yes, we lot — like any other lot — will be reactionary when confronted with incendiary statements. Furthermore, we are intolerant — of the intolerant, that is. Regarding who's misinformed, we can play ping-pong with that one all day. For myself, I prefer to be informed by the evidence in front of me. You, of course will refute that evidence, or claim there is none. And back and forth we go. Kanip! Kanop! Kanip! Kanop!

Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 05:31 AM

Quote:
If, in fact, we're wrong, it's because you haven't done a very good job of proving your case

You couldn't have done a very good job reading my posts or links because you've shown no awareness of the arguments or cases I've put forward on the value of counselling. If people claim from personal experience to have overcome their own homosexuality it seems to me we have no reason to doubt them. As I pointed out old wotsisname, Giuseppe Povia, got over it and was very happy to have done so. That Texan lawyer as well - Mike wotsisname... Mike Goerke from Midland said that the counselling he received restored his heterosexual identity and saved his family life.

The Human Genome Project (HGP) as I've also made clear has dismissed arguments that homosexuality is predetermined by heritable characteristics but confirmed the role of environmental factors and choice. Persons who chose homosexuality and wish they hadn't should have access to the best possible counselling in my opinion. It's quite cruel for people grasping at straws over disproved genetic fallacies to just stick to a rigid political agenda to the extent of denying help to those who seek it. Unless you're going to assert that homosexuality is inherently preferable to heterosexuality there can be no benefit in insisting that they stick to their original decision. If they wish to change to avoid the heightened risk of depression and anxiety known to exist among non-heterosexuals they should have access to the opportunity..

I also pointed out that over here any behaviour progressing to a sex offence usually attracts attendance on a Sex Offenders Treatment Programme (SOTP) including treatment for persons committing offences motivated by homosexuality. Official Sentencing Guidance state that the purpose of such programmes is to "teach self-control mechanisms to change attitudes and behaviour and stop further offending".

The importance of effective treatment at an early stage can't be overstated because with serious recidivist sexual offending whilst "there appears to be grounds for cautious optimism regarding the efficacy of treatment programmes" overall those aimed at homosexual paedophiles" are among those who appear to do particularly badly.

Nope, I'm afraid that homophobia can't be defined by reference to those who don't subscribe to the activist gay agenda. I seem to recall you even marked President Obama down as homophobic which went down like a lead balloon even among those who are usually sympathetic to your point of view. What homophobia actually means is displaying an intense aversion to homosexuals and homosexuality - those who advocate or offer help are quite the opposite.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 05:58 AM

1. ~ Why is it that when one flatly disagrees with you, it automatically follows that one has not paid attention to your posts?*

2. ~ Why is it that when one chooses not to subscribe to the views of those whom you link or refer to, it automatically follows that lone is not doing a good job of reading?*

3. ~ Why is that when one rejects the validity of "successful treatment" of homosexuality on the basis that it's not a malady or "condition" in the first place, you continue to circle around to only those resources that align with your POV?*

4. ~ Why is it that this is such an all-consuming issue for you to begin with? Just pulling a stat out of thin air, I'm confident in estimating that this one topic constitutes 15% - 20% of the content of your total body of posts — rivaled only by the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You can post whatever you want to post, of course. I'm just pointing out a pattern.

Discuss.


*Easy explanation: It's been said that you like to get people to think. That by itself is a good thing. But it's only half the story. Instead of getting people to think for themselves, you would rather get people to think as you do. Unfortunately, that's a futile thing.

Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 07:13 AM

Quote:
1. ~ Why is it that when one flatly disagrees with you, it automatically follows that one has not paid attention to your posts?*

It doesn't - it automatically follows from your statement that I hadn't done a very good job explaining my position.

Quote:
2. ~ Why is it that when one chooses not to subscribe to the views...

They're not cited for their views but their experiences.

Quote:
2. ~ ... those whom you link or refer to, it automatically follows that one is not doing a good job of reading?*

It doesn't, it automatically follows from your apparent unawareness of them.

Quote:
3. ~ Why is that when one rejects the validity of "successful treatment" of homosexuality on the basis that it's not a malady or "condition" in the first place, you continue to circle around to only those resources that align with your POV?*

I cited a variety of resources including objective scientific research and accounts of personal experiences. The fact that some do and some don't lend support to your position shows what a one-track mind you've got expecting only endorsements of your point of view and nothing else.

Quote:
4. ~ Why is it that this is such an all-consuming issue for you to begin with?

It's not. Most of the posts in the long thread for example are about morality. Some persons tried to divert it onto homosexuality or tried to float their false assumptions in that regard but I wasn't among those who took the bait.

Quote:
Just pulling a stat out of thin air, I'm confident in estimating that this one topic constitutes 15% - 20% of the content of your total body of posts...

If you're going to include such posts as comedy sketches of Stephen Fry and all the noise you've generated from them which I've been obliged to silence it wouldn't be a very telling statistic. Moreover, unlike some posters who don't have the courtesy to reply to straightforward questions, I believe it's polite to do so irrespective of the topic. Neither in this thread nor the other one did I introduce the subject of homosexuality.

Quote:
— rivaled only by the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. You can post whatever you want to post, of course. I'm just pointing out a pattern.

Last time you ran that argument Jim proved you wrong, of course. When the Palestinian problem is resolved I'll probably stop talking about it unless someone asks for a history lesson.

Quote:
It's been said that you like to get people to think. That by itself is a good thing.

R i g h t.... ?

Quote:
But it's only half the story.

Ah, no it's the whole story.

Quote:
Instead of getting people to think for themselves, you would rather get people to think as you do. Unfortunately, that's a futile thing.

I don't agree with that... someone who's proved wrong has no choice but to revisit their assumptions.

km

Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 08:06 AM

And so it goes. You will have an answer for everything, and twist and bend the course of the dialog to favor those answers, valid or not. So I will now extricate myself from this perpetual merry-go-round, because even if I were to back up each and every one of my statements with volumes of irrefutable support and/or evidence, you would still attempt to refute the irrefutable adnauseum — as you very recently demonstrated to the frustration of a new member who made an exemplary effort to take you on from the high road, and ultimately had to hit the showers before losing his patience with you. There is no such thing as "debate" with one who falls back on brick mazes. And there is no conclusion when one party cannot even agree to disagree, but demands only agreement on his terms. Once again, the sound of one hand clapping. Mazeltov. You've "won" another one...
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 08:24 AM

I'd be getting the violin out if it wasn't for the fact that this began with an unwarranted accusation of homophobia.

My exchanges with W2ed started with his opening gambit of "WTF?" in answer to my considered points about morality and only came to an end when he admitted that the only alternative he could see was making personal remarks - oddly enough I never feel the need to do that. To be honest I think those exchanges reveal exemplary efforts on my part to conduct a civilised conversation, and by and large I think it was.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 08:50 AM

Thanks for that. But as I said — in so many words — the prosecution rests.

Though I'd love to hear your rendition of Flight of the Bumblebee some time.
Posted by: Lea

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 08:59 AM


. . . making personal remarks - oddly enough I never feel the need to do that.


That's not true.



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 09:07 AM

Quote:
That's not true.

Yep it's true... unless you want to cite instances of self-defence.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 09:08 AM

Quote:
the prosecution rests.

In that case it fails.

km
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Interesting line in tonight's ABC News program - 01/01/10 02:23 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
I suppose the more often my alleged homophobia is discussed and disseminated the more likely it is that people will believe it, so that would be a result for you would it not? To do no more than quote Stephen Fry from a television comedy sketch and be immediately attacked for homophobia shows how reactionary and intolerant some of you lot really are. As for being misinformed, I'm afraid it's you who's misinformed.


If you wonder about the homophobia references, it's probably because you never have been openly supportive of the gay lifestyle, but also to be fair, nor have you said outright that you find it morally reprehensible. I don't care to debate any of that BTW, it's just one example. The point is no one really knows your stance on that, or most anything, without having to try and solve a rubik's cube.

Everybody else here makes their beliefs known in black and white, plain English. It's a meeting place where friends share things about themselves and their feelings, not a court of law where every conversation has to have a winner. If you want to get your point across, sometimes it might help to know what makes the man tick. It's good to make people look at all sides, but to never openly take one of those sides seems like you're afraid to make a commitment, and people then have to make assumptions as to what you really believe.

So basically the way I see it is you bring these things upon yourself by not opening up your feelings like friends do in everyday conversation. You make it cold and calculated, like a courtroom, not like the friendly get together and camaraderie that people generally come here for.

My 2 Euros. smile