Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas

Posted by: DLC

Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 07:04 AM

Tom Friedman has a great editorial about why we should stay in Afghanistan. I've always been for getting out. but he makes a good argument on changing their culture by building schools and educating young women and girls so that the traditional Islam might be eventually altered to give women equal rights. I seriously don't know, but read the editorial and see what you think...
I looked for a link but couldn't find one... maybe there'll be one in a couple of days.

I'm not convinced it'll work or make a long lasting difference, but he makes an excellent argument. Worth the read. The key is long lasting.... young women are no match armed war lords. On the other hand, if they strike them down- they strike down their own... they kill their own ability to create families and more followers of Islam and also more fighters. I dunno but it makes a fascinating discussion topic.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 07:23 AM

Quote:
he makes a good argument on changing their culture

He needs to change his own culture by minding his own business.

km
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 07:55 AM

Link
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 08:03 AM

And yet, you have no problem telling everyone else how to manage their affairs. "I call upon this one. I call upon that one."

So who is Pot and who is Kettle, eh? smirk
Posted by: Lea

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 08:24 AM


From the article (thank you, six, for the link) ~


. . . where there is no education. . . . Religious extremism flourishes in areas of isolation and conflict.

Taliban and its allies have bombed, burned or shut down more than 640 schools in Afghanistan and 350 schools in Pakistan, of which about 80 percent are schools for girls . . . south in Helmand Province, where the worst fighting is today, the deputy minister of education said that Taliban extremists have shut 75 of the 228 schools in the last year. This is the real war of ideas. The Taliban want public mosques, not public schools. The Muslim militants recruit among the illiterate and impoverished in society.



Terrorism is not a "culture." It's a tactic employed by extremists. Bombing, burning and shutting down schools is indefensible.



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 08:25 AM

Quote:
And yet, you have no problem telling everyone else how to manage their affairs. "I call upon this one. I call upon that one."

Manage their affairs? You mean by calling upon this one to stop murdering people or upon that one to stop torturing and raping people? I thought we were all agreed on those values... oh well. If certain people could manage their affairs without committing international crimes and atrocities in my opinion it would be a help, yes.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 08:41 AM

--> The Point <--

















--> km <--

*sigh*
Posted by: DLC

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 08:50 AM

Ah no wonder I missed it - the Lead Title in the AJC was different. I looked for a different article. crazy
blush
laugh
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 08:54 AM

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Bombing, burning and shutting down schools is indefensible.
You would think. But to some...
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 09:15 AM

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. . . where there is no education. . . . Religious extremism flourishes in areas of isolation and conflict.

Ah, the Bible Belt smile.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 09:31 AM

An' in JoJa it er called edu-mication ! wink

Example: We're-in smart enuf down herin' da South, we dunt' need no mor edumication nor book learnin' !!

laugh
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 09:36 AM

Quote:
Bombing, burning and shutting down schools is indefensible.

Oh yeah, unless it's Israel or the US doing it... it's defensible then.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 09:39 AM

LOL.

Kroger cashier: Have a blessed day.

Me: Don't f'n tell me what to do!

laugh
Posted by: Lea

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 10:05 AM


Ah, the "put words in her mouth" tactic.

Same ol' same ol' ~ How could I forget how dreadfully predictable you are? I'll just have to try harder.



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 10:12 AM

Quote:
Ah, the "put words in her mouth" tactic.

Not really - just making a statement of fact on my own behalf. cry

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 10:23 AM

The only fact stated is "on your own behalf". So what else is new?
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 10:24 AM

Did anyone here say that?







Didn't think so. Try again.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 10:26 AM

Quote:
The only fact stated is "on your own behalf"

Glad you agree.

km

Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 11:39 AM

I repeat:

--> The Point <--










--> km <--
Posted by: carp

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:02 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
Ah, the "put words in her mouth" tactic.

Not really - just making a statement of fact on my own behalf. cry

km


What facts ? you run on Allegations
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:09 PM

Quote:
What facts ? you run on Allegations

Oh, alright have it your way - Israeli and US strikes are not defensible then.

km
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:11 PM

Quote:
I repeat:

So what?

km
Posted by: carp

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:16 PM

Quote:
Terrorism is not a "culture." It's a tactic employed by extremists. Bombing, burning and shutting down schools is indefensible.


That is so true , terrorism is not a culture

Yep keep them stupid and poor makes for easy brainwashing
Posted by: carp

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:20 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Quote:
What facts ? you run on Allegations

Oh, alright have it your way - Israeli and US strikes are not defensible then.

km


The last time I look the US is defending Afghanistan from the invading Taliban and Israel was defending themselves from rocket attacks from inside Gaza

And these so called rape , has not been proven yet , no one is arrested or even questioned = It's still allegations
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:22 PM

Quote:
Terrorism is not a "culture." It's a tactic employed by extremists.

Ah, but people fighting against trespass, murder rape and torture by foreigners are neither terrorists nor extremists because they have the right of self-defence.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:29 PM

For an intelligent guy there's a lot you don't get. But I'll make this one easy for you:

In his article, Friedman is advocating what amounts to behavior change — albeit on a broad scale and with a narrow probability quotient. In your constant callings upon, you are doing exactly the same thing.

But when Friedman does it, he should mind his own business, while when you do it, the world must kiss your ring and take immediate action.

Do you get my point now?*



*Like I don't already know the answer to that one.
Posted by: carp

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:41 PM

Okay for the last time - this circle jerk is getting tired

Quote:
Ah, but people fighting against trespass


It is the Taliban that are trespassing and launching attacks from Pakistan

Quote:
murder rape


Again Allegations - You seem to forgot the meaning , I'll post it one more time

Quote:
allegation |&#716;ali&#712;g&#257; sh &#601;n|
noun
a claim or assertion that someone has done something illegal or wrong, typically one made without proof : he made allegations of corruption against the administration | allegations that the army was operating a shoot-to-kill policy.


Quote:
neither terrorists nor extremists because they have the right of self-defence.


You forgot - The Taliban lost their right when the Afghan People Freely Elected their government - The Taliban is no longer the government and has no rights they are now (terrorist)

Think about after the election the Taliben then should have dropped their weapons and rejoined their communities - who know maybe they could have run for election ? but now they decided to kill Afghan citizens burn schools and attack little boys and girls
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:49 PM

So, Al Qaeda attacks the U.S. on U.S. soil, killing three thousand mostly civilian persons. It was the manifestation of an open declaration of war rendered by Bin Laden and his supporters. So the U.S. lawfully and with a coalition of multinational forces retaliates against Al Qaeda on the soil it has squatted on, and we're trespassing?

And the Taliban — attached at the hip to Al Qaeda — doesn't trespass, rape, murder, torture, behead, and incinerate?

I'm not implying that two wrongs (when they actually occur) make a right, but dude, you just go out of your way to give the Taliban and Al Qaeda a pass.

Can I offer you a deal on a pre-owned suicide vest with low mileage?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 12:58 PM

I didn't even read what he thinks because what Afghanis get up to in their culture has got nothing to do with him.

km
Posted by: Lea

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 01:04 PM


By that criteria, you don't read anything.

Well, that sure explains a lot.



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 01:17 PM

Quote:
By that criteria, you don't read anything.

No, but that criteria I don't read anything by interfering busy bodies... that still leaves quite a lot I can read.

km
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 01:41 PM

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I didn't even read what he thinks

And there ya have it folks. Straight from the horse's ass mouth.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 01:57 PM

Well, if you don't read it, how do you know the author is "interfering"? For a fact-driven guy, you sure are taking the lazy way out on this one.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 02:20 PM

Quote:
Quote:
I didn't even read what he thinks
And there ya have it folks.

As a matter of fact I've read it now just to keep you lot happy and it's exactly the kind of ignorant rose-tinted nonsense I was expecting... all that eulogising about the landscape when he shouldn't even be there. Smiles on girls faces? Not the ones who have lost their parents thanks to his interfering attitude. So because he thinks all cultures should adopt Western values we now have the right to invade and occupy all peoples who are at a different stage of social evolution? Who shall we invade next Papua New Guinea? No, I know, Saudi Arabia! What a twit. No wonder you lot want to go 'round invading everyone being taken in by that load of baloney. Did anyone invade the US to enforce racial or sexual equality? Friedman can get right out of Afghanistan, go home and mind his own business. smile

km
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 02:33 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker

Oh, alright have it your way - Israeli and US strikes are not defensible then.

km


They are when it's a building full of Taliban and anyone that cares associate with them.
Posted by: Lea

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 02:40 PM


. . . go home and mind his own business.


The irony in that statement is stunning.



Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 02:48 PM

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And these so called rape , has not been proven yet , no one is arrested or even questioned = It's still allegations

That's because in the United States rape can be a turned into a state secret and prosecutions blocked to avoid embarrassment. Mag Gen Taguba said that the rape accounts were credible and included one in his report where a minor was pinned down and attacked at gunpoint:

“I saw [name of a translator] ******* a kid, his age would be about 15 to 18 years. The kid was hurting very bad and they covered all the doors with sheets. Then when I heard screaming I climbed the door because on top it wasn’t covered and I saw [name] who was wearing the military uniform, putting his **** in the little kid’s ***…. and the female soldier was taking pictures.”

Crimes such as that photographed and collated by US personnel as having occurred at facilities like as Abu Ghraib and Bagram as well as the first batch that were made public afford the right of self-defence.

km
Posted by: carp

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 03:54 PM

Still its all allegations until proven - maybe you should shut up and wait until the real facts come out .
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 04:01 PM

Maybe we'll invade you lot next. Or maybe just you. I would equate lack of imagination with an deficient culture.

Good gawd, man talk about twits. Next time, try reading with your eyes open (we'll start there and move on to your mind).
Posted by: steveg

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 04:02 PM

Methinks he's still smarting from Lexington Green. grin
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 09:26 PM

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Still its all allegations until proven...

There doesn't have to be a trial that's never going to happen before a person can act in self-defence - he can do so on what's in the Daily Telegraph.

Quote:
maybe you should shut up and wait until the real facts come out .

Maybe I shouldn't - the real facts are already out, mate... unfortunately for you. eek

km
Posted by: carp

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 10:00 PM

Quote:
Maybe I shouldn't - the real facts are already out, mate... unfortunately for you.


Wheres the LINK ? show the proof

Quote:
There doesn't have to be a trial that's never going to happen before a person can act in self-defense


What self defense maybe they were the aggressors like the Taliban and Al-Qeada
Posted by: keymaker

Re: Not the time to give up on the War of Ideas - 07/19/09 11:53 PM

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Wheres the LINK ?

Link

Quote:
What self defense maybe they were the aggressors

Yeah that's okay, against murder rape and torture a person is allowed to be aggressive in self-defence.

km