The Bakken Oil Formation

Posted by: DLC

The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 09:15 AM

This is an unconfirmed report... BUT if true, it really shows how the OIL companies have snookered us, the consumers into paying $4 gallon for gas when it could be much cheaper.<br><br>GO Here and read about the Bakken Oil Formation - 503 billion barrels, enough oil to last 41 years. This is huge compared to offshore drilling, and it's MUCH, MUCH cheaper to extract ..... $16 a barrel cost to extract !! ... and worth $ 5.3 Trilion !!<br> New OIL <br><br>And if that didn't make your jaw hit the floor.... try this one. Another reserve was discovered located 1000 feet under the Rocky Mountains that contains 2 TRILLION barrels ! (worth about $20 Trillion @ $107 / barrel).<br><br>So have we been victims of oil company manipulation? Has the cry for offshore drilling and drilling in ANWAR just been a diversion?<br>With all this available OIL, wouldn't there be pressure for them to reduce prices and give up drilling in ecological sensitive areas ? And like the DeBeers family controls the worldwide price of diamonds, so does the major oil companies of the world try to keep the price of their product as high as they can, justified or not, and they don't care who gets hurt ... even the whole US economy.<br><br>Just some things to think about.<br><br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 10:37 AM

USGS assessment here<br><br>Press release (via Reuters) here<br><br>Difference appears to be "potential" vs. "technically recoverable" (i.e. recoverable using today's technology) ...<br><br>Still, nothing to blow your nose at ;-)<br><br>Might help tide things over until alternatives are perfected ...<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 11:20 AM

OK a few questions....<br><br>1. WHy has this been so underreported?<br><br>2. Why haven't McCain and other GOP pushing offshore drilling mentioned this ?<br><br>3. Wouldn't this be easier and less costly than offshore drilling, and less risk to the environment?<br><br>4. and what about the other large find under the Rockies? that's 4-5 times this one.<br><br>This is the first I ever heard of ANY of these. Great news, except how to deal with the extra CO2. ... but still better than offshore.<br><br>I'm also POed that they keep saying there were no spills during recent hurricanes.. that's a LIE... sure may not have been the Valdez disaster but 750,000 gallons isn't trivial either. Why can't they just be honest about it ?<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 12:44 PM

Easy Peasy<br><br>the INFO WAS OUT THERE...Just no one's been paying attention:<br>The Democratic legislature POINTED THAT FACT OUT BEFORE LEAVING For THEIR VACATION<br><br>It was the ReTHUGnicans that were "playing it down" to create a "Manufactured Issue" by <br>Demonizing the Democrats as GUILTY of Blocking the POOR Obscenely Rich Oil Barons from <br>More Drilling Rights, and for having the ODACITY To Leave during the So-Called "CRISIS".<br><br>But ...the "CONSERVatives" TYPICALLY decided that it was To THEIR Advantage to <br>[color:white]..............</font color=white><br>Play @ STIRRING Up the HEARTlander by "BLAMING OBAMA!!!!" for HIGH PRICES.<br><br>..........it's all KaKa.......... <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> <br>
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 01:24 PM

Wow, this is fantastic news! Or is it? The status says unconfirmed. I bet it's true though. How can we test it to make sure the quantity they're saying is there? <br><br>Should we all write to senators Obama & McCain? One of them is going to be the next president. <br><br>Too many lives they've spent across the ocean. Too much money been spent upon the moon. Well, until they make it right, I hope they never sleep at night. They better make some changes and do it soon. -Things Goin' On/Lynyrd Skynyrd
Posted by: polymerase

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 03:11 PM

This is not the first or the largest or the last shale oil formation they will find. There is a lot of oil in different formations around the world and a lot in the United States and Canada. But the feasibility of extracting it is the problem. The Utah/Colorado shale formation or the Canada sand oil formation are other examples. <br><br>But if you have to burn a one energy unit to collect 1.2 energy units that is a scam on the order of Brown's gas. Entrepreneurs will actually push this kind of extraction and through government subsidies and increasing price of oil will get the gullible to buy into it. <br><br>Don't buy into it. Burning a ton of coal to get a barrel of oil is insanity. The ethanol scam is already working very well. We will get higher food prices, depleted soil and ten cents off your gasoline bill. <br><br>Stop whining about four dollar a gallon gas. Start whining that it is not six dollars and the taxes raised help to fix the problem. Raping the Dakotas is not the answer.<br><br>
Posted by: cope

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 03:31 PM

Ah, the Bakken formation. I once worked a well in eastern Montana in the Williston Basin and the Bakken was one of the objectives (amongst several others). This was in the early '80s and the POTENTIAL of the Bakken was well known even then. It is not some surprising new discovery. If the Bakken is suffering from a lack of positive PR, it is probably because of the known problems with developing this kind of formation.<br><br>Submitted for your approval, this article at The Oildrum provides not only specifics about the Bakken but also a very good primer on the production of oil in general. It's a long read but pretty user-friendly and if you want to save the time and mental effort, scroll down to the nine summary points at the end of the article.<br><br>You know, I think I am beginning to understand the backlash of average citizens (certainly NOT meaning you, David, a full-time working scientist in your own right) against scientific reality. All too often, pesky "facts" and physical realities of how the world works contradict our own self interests and this makes us unhappy. <br><br>P.S. Why is this post on the Political Soapbox board?<br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 03:44 PM

Poly and Cope,<br><br>First from what I read, the USGS determined the formation had 4-5 times what was previously thought back in 1995.<br><br>Second, yes it's not easy, but new technology has made it practical to extract, they didn't say the details except $16 / barrel when oil is selling for >$100. again - no details, but as we know from computers, technology changes - though oil extraction technology is probably much slower than CPUs.<br><br>They also didn't go into details about the larger pool under the Rocky's either, but it made me realize maybe the offshore ruse was a diversion and a political football used by Big Oil and their political buddies to get their way. (they avoid referring to conservation, CAFE stds, solar, and wind like the plague- it's OIL or nutin !)<br><br>MY big concern is IF it is there and it IS economically recoverable, what's the impact on atmospheric CO2 and climate warming ? THAT doesn't look good, and that's why I'm really pissed some in Congress (incl. McCain) don't support continuing (they are in place now) tax breaks for solar and wind. That SUCKS ! seems a logical way to reduce our need for foreign oil and gas, and be green too !<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: polymerase

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 03:48 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> All too often, pesky "facts" and physical realities of how the world works contradict our own self interests and this makes us unhappy. <p><hr></blockquote><p> It seems that 99% of what passes for scientific discussion on the internet is fantasy. Ignoring facts is de rigueur.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>P.S. Why is this post on the Political Soapbox board?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Scientific fantasy and religion are two sides of the same coin. Same reason why Brown's gas is always relegated to the basement back room.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 03:59 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>First from what I read, the USGS determined the formation had 4-5 times what was previously thought back in 1995.<p><hr></blockquote><p> And the shills for bakken futures quote 25 times more. It's still bullsh[i][/i]t. 25 times the stuid number the USGS came up with in 1995 is still a stupid number.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>Second, yes it's not easy, but new technology has made it practical to extract,<p><hr></blockquote><p> No, it hasn't. Read Cope's link. Your great great grandson may use some Bakken shale oil to grease his maglev skateboard but spending 110 bucks of energy to extract out a barrel of oil is still stupid even if a barrel was 400 a barrel. A total waste of resources. Burning coal and gas to rape the Dakotas is ridiculous. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>They also didn't go into details about the larger pool under the Rocky's either,<p><hr></blockquote><p> Because that is Mancos shale as dificult to extract as this stuff. There is no pool. Calling it or the Dakota formation a pool of sweet oil is misinformation being perpetrated by scam artists selling oil futures.<br><br>
Posted by: cope

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 04:25 PM

I guess the underlying thesis of my world view is that:<br><br>1) There is no single magic silver bullet that will save us,<br><br>2) All the tiny little silver plated bullets don't add up to what we need and, most importantly,<br><br>3) there needs to be an absolute sea change in our attitudes and expectations about what the future holds for us.<br><br>The future is very, very bleak. It seems that $4 per gallon gas didn't drive home the point. It drops back down to $3.77 and everybody breathes a sigh of relief and carries on as usual. Next time, it goes up to $4.40 and eventually drops to $4 and the hive mind will fall back into complacency.<br><br>We are the frog in the pan of water in which the water temperature is slowly going up and we don't seem to notice. Not until the heat begins to denature our proteins will the light bulb turn on.<br><br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 04:34 PM

OK Poly and Cope, give me some time to digest all this... I think I see what you're getting at.... much, much more complicated than I imagined.<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: cope

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 04:38 PM

Thanks, Dave, I know you to be a reasonable and prudent person. It DOES need to be thought about and digested. And that takes work and most people aren't interested in doing the heavy lifting.<br><br>Yes, the Bakken (and other sources) will be a small help, yes there are alternatives to be developed but my worry is that our collective sense of urgency just isn't there to drive the politicians.<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 04:56 PM

While I agree completely with your points and that a sea change is necessary, we are but frogs slowly brought to par boil temps, and that we grasp for silver bullets then lax back into complacency I hold out a little bit of hope. <br><br>America as the biggest consumer of energy has to change or we are royally screwed. That is obvious and there is no silver bullet. And gas prices dropping back to $3.72 (what I paid driving up and down the east coast last week) was depressing to me I do see a ray of hope. People are discussing the price. People are turning Hummers into the joke they should have been. There might be a few less SUVs out there right now and attitudes might actually be changing.<br><br>We saw the oil scare of the early 70s and we saw Jimmy Carter's initiatives shot down later by Reagan. If we do the same thing this time you are right, we will be but a skim coat of denatured protein floating on the world we have ruined. But I think we have at least a 50/50 chance of not repeating our same mistakes again.<br><br>Electing Obama will not be a silver bullet but it will be a start. Speaking honestly about nuclear is not a silver bullet but it will help. Ignoring this kind of cra[i][/i]p about Bakken or the Canada oil sands or all the rest of the BS which is just making a buck is not a silver bullet but we could move to something that works. Betting on one silver bullet is madness. <br><br>
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 05:39 PM

All small helps add up to a big help. I hope that's what we'll (U.S.A.) be doing. Not pursuing it will get no results at all. It's like the lottery. You can't win if you don't play. <br><br>Too many lives they've spent across the ocean. Too much money been spent upon the moon. Well, until they make it right, I hope they never sleep at night. They better make some changes and do it soon. -Things Goin' On/Lynyrd Skynyrd
Posted by: polymerase

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 06:09 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>All small helps add up to a big help.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Sure, everything helps in a realistic world. Getting all excited about 23 day worth of oil spread over 50 years (realistic estimates for this field) just distracts from the real issues. Looking at Bakken and blaming big oil for hiding the data and considering the problem solved just lulls us into complacency like Cope's parboiled frogs.<br><br>We have to consider reality or we are cooked.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 07:07 PM

Maybe that's why it's undetermined on snopes.com. Who knows. According to the wikipedia page on this there is an estimated 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of oil there. Sounds like a lot more than 23 days worth of oil. Drilling here and working hard on alternatives knowing we will run out of this stuff one day should get us motivated. <br><br>I do see after reading the entire article that more current estimates of quantity of oil is much lower than previously estimated. What it really means is they don't know how much is there. Shouldn't we find out?<br><br>Too many lives they've spent across the ocean. Too much money been spent upon the moon. Well, until they make it right, I hope they never sleep at night. They better make some changes and do it soon. -Things Goin' On/Lynyrd Skynyrd<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by iBookmaster on 08/17/08 07:32 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: The Bakken Oil Formation - 08/17/08 07:33 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> According to the wikipedia page on this there is an estimated 3.0 to 4.3 billion barrels of oil there. <p><hr></blockquote><p>And if that is all that you get out of that wiki page we are well on our way to being parboiled. Read the whole thing. One percent of that millions is feasible for extraction. The porosity and the permeability of the strata the oil is in is a problem. One can read a sentence or two out of new data which show high pressure fracturing and horizontal drilling will make dramatic increases. Right. The one percent might go up to three percent over the next fifty years. One could restate that and say "an increase of 300%" and the mathematically impaired cheer. They'll also forget that that type of drilling and fracturing costs money deleting from the net result.<br><br>The McCain offshore drilling stance is hype. Bakken is hype. These are not silver bullets. These are drops in the bucket. They are distractions to real problems and real solutions. If you hype Bakken as a real solution you are parboiled. <br><br>