Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really!

Posted by: Mike

Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 08:09 AM

Well, it is if you believe John McCain:<br><br>[color:blue]"I'm aware that off the coast of Louisiana and Texas there are oil rigs, as we well know, and those rigs have survived, very successfully, the impacts of hurricanes, Hurricane Katrina, as far as Louisiana's concerned," McCain said at a town hall in Michigan last week.<br>In an energy speech recently, McCain said that: "As for offshore drilling, it's safe enough these days that not even Hurricanes Katrina and Rita could cause significant spillage from the battered rigs off the coasts of New Orleans and Houston."</font color=blue><br><br> Hello???? Reality check!!<br><br>[color:blue]"In fact, Katrina and Hurricane Rita caused damage to oil rigs and storage facilities in the Gulf, according to press reports and government studies.<br>The hurricanes totally destroyed 113 oil rigs, according to the government's Minerals Management Service, and damaged 457 pipelines. The resulting oil spills were large enough to be seen from space, according to several reports.</font color=blue><br><br>Kinda makes me wonder where John McCain gets his information from...<br><br><br><br>[color:blue][/b]Hodie mihi. Cras tibi.</font color=blue>[/b]
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 08:37 AM

He makes it up as he goes. Kinda like GW's WMD claims. <br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 09:07 AM

I read that >750,000 gallons of oil and petroleum products were spilled during the hurricanes Rita and Katrina... <br>anything over 50,000 is a major spill... <br><br><br>so the pristine picture they're trying to selll is smoke & mirrors BS and Lies !<br>He DOES make it up as he goes !<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Mike

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 09:21 AM

Doesn't McCain have advisors/staff members who check these things before he comes out with these ridiculous statements?<br>I mean, what the heck are they doing to earn their fees?<br>Or is he just too senile to 'fudge up' the facts?<br><br><br><br><br>[color:blue][/b]Hodie mihi. Cras tibi.</font color=blue>[/b]
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 11:46 AM

113 rigs + 457 pipes = 570 incidents.<br><br>750000 / 570 = about 1315 gallons per incident average.<br><br>Therefore: no individual incidence was considered major!! See new math is easy.<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 12:00 PM

Look. For the last time. The levies were overtopped, they didn't 'fail'!<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: DLC

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 12:08 PM

depends on the definition of IN-cident is !! <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 12:53 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I read that >750,000 gallons of oil and petroleum products were spilled during the hurricanes Rita and Katrina... <br>anything over 50,000 is a major spill... <br><br><br>so the pristine picture they're trying to selll is smoke & mirrors BS and Lies !<br>He DOES make it up as he goes !<p><hr></blockquote><p>The amount of natural crude-oil seepage is currently estimated to be 600,000 metric tons per year, with a range of uncertainty of 200,000 to 2,000,000 metric tons per year.<br><br>So that's 18,4791,348 to 615,971,244 gallons of oil are natural seepage.<br><br>If my math is right 750,000 gallons is .04% to .0013% of the of the oil that leaks naturally.<br><br>More liberal FUD.<br><br>Try again.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 01:28 PM

How can you compare oil seeping worldwide with dumping a crap ton of it in one area?<br><br>As for liberal FUD... it's the same thing that the oil companies told all of us when they bumped up fuel costs directly after the hurricanes. I don't expect the boards of Exxon and Mobile often traffic in "liberal FUD".<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 02:02 PM

Please stop. Equating natural seepage to ruptured pipe spills is as nonsensical as comparing volcano eruptions to coal fired power plants. <br><br>It doesn't work that way. Piecing numbers out of scientific papers and drawing conclusions like that are not just farcical, it's just plain stupid. Friday night before a Red Sox vs Yankees weekend leaves no time to explain. But take it from a jackass, your conjecture is ignorant. Not dumb, just missing some solid evidence.<br><br>But I will give you one analogy:<br>Broccoli is good for you. But if you take 2,000 pounds of it and extract out all of the alkaloids and spread it on the back of a shaved rat it causes tumors. That is the Ames cancer test gone wrong.<br><br>But what do we take from this experiment? Your take would be:<br>1) Broccoli is good for you<br>2) Ignore those rats with tumors.<br><br>My response would be:<br>1) Broccoli is good for you.<br>2) Don't shave your as[i][/i]s and rub concentrated broccoli on it.<br><br>Because, in a round about way, I am pointing out it is all about concentration. 50,000 gallons of crude in my harbor is a travesty. 50,000 gallons of crude sprinkled over the Antlantic ocean is undetectable and will be well handled by the sun's oxidative forces as well as bacteria and algae that can consume minute amounts of natural seepage when it is in very low concentrations. This is the same way our DNA repair systems in our body can handle the small amount of damage caused by broccoli but if presented with a scientist and a razor are overwhelmed,<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 02:18 PM

Conclusion: Scientist with razors are dangerous. Must be why so many of them resemble Hasidic Jews.<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Llewelyn on 07/25/08 02:18 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 02:25 PM

the total was higher than I previously heard.<br><br> Katrina Oil Spills <br><br>Point is you can quibble over amounts and whether they're minor, medium, or Major, but it's a Flat-out LIE to say there were NONE.<br><br>That's the problem with boneheads like McBush... everything is in Absolutes... black or white.. with us or against us... reality (and nature) deals in numbers, details.... there were oil spills but they don't want to even admit that...<br>they are extreme liars...<br><br>Why couldn't they be somewhat honest and say there were a few minor ones?<br>Everything has to be a 5 sec sound bite and that's not working anymore. People got used to Bush' 2 sec BS lines, now they demand details.<br>That's why Obama is connecting and McBush is still incoherently sputtering, and misrepresenting most his messages.<br><br>David (OFI)<br><br>PS Or Poly... how about a little UV light is good... needed for Vitamin D synthesis ... a little tanning... BUT large amounts in a small area = melanomas !! DNA repair systems overwhelmed... can't handle it.<br>Take home message = stay away from tanning parlors !<br><br>Great analogy by the way !
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 07:51 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Please stop. Equating natural seepage to ruptured pipe spills is as nonsensical as comparing volcano eruptions to coal fired power plants. <p><hr></blockquote><p>No it's not. Worrying about .04% or less is nonsensical, and FUD, you don't scare me though, I have a calculator.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 07:57 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>50,000 gallons of crude in my harbor is a travesty.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Your harbor is a speck of sand compared to the Gulf of Mexico or any other off shore site. I don't know the details but I doubt they would be drilling in or near your new harbor.<br><br>Tee many martoonies for you tonight it seems.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 08:00 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Point is you can quibble over amounts and whether they're minor, medium, or Major, but it's a Flat-out LIE to say there were NONE.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I never said it wasn't a lie, did I? <br><br>I'm talking about the chicken little reactions over .04% or less of natural seepage.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: iBookmaster

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 08:08 PM

We've debated for years whether we should drill in all our possible areas. It has taken skyrocketing gas prices to once again spark the debate. Seems like spills will always be a problem. And it is a problem. But I jump on the side of drilling where we can. We should have been doing it 10-15 years ago. Anything we can do to lower our foreign oil dependency is a good thing. I know it isn't the answer but, we've got use it sometime in the future. <br><br>Too many lives they've spent across the ocean. Too much money been spent upon the moon. Well, until they make it right, I hope they never sleep at night. They better make some changes and do it soon. -Things Goin' On/Lynyrd Skynyrd
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 08:18 PM

Kind of my point, it's a stop gap to get rid of foreign dependency, and the .04% or less is nothing to worry about IMO since we won't be drilling in just one harbor.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 09:19 PM

Well then, let's take an equivalent example.<br><br>Asbestos is a naturally occurring mineral. We can all agree that it's not a substance you would want to be around, but nonetheless, it's out there. In some places, notably in South Africa, some parts of Canada and rocky parts of Southern California, there are deposits near the surface that continually and naturally release asbestos fibers into the atmosphere.<br><br>Now, lets say you take 0.04% of the world's naturally released asbestos (nice and unrefined) and just drop it off right next to where a whole lot of people work and live. I hope those people know a good oncologist.<br><br>Simply saying that there is a whole bunch more junk the world and that concentrating it in one place that is not ecologically balanced for it and spilling it all over the place is just a drop in the bucket is nonsense. How would you like it if someone came to your state, your town, your neighborhood, your street, or even your backyard and dumped a bunch of crap in it shortly before sloughing off your concerns with the off-handed remark, "there really is a lot of crap in the world."<br><br>If you are arguing that an oil spill is not a mess, your insane. If you are arguing that saying that an oil spill is a problem is "liberal FUD", you are paranoid.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 09:40 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Now, lets say you take 0.04% of the world's naturally released asbestos (nice and unrefined) and just drop it off right next to where a whole lot of people work and live.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Why does everyone talk of these small areas. A bit of Geography for you all, the Gulf of Mexico is freakin huge, and the rigs are many miles off shore, not right in someone's backyard.<br><br>Any other shore they drill off of has *huge* expanses of ocean behind them, this isn't someone's confined backyard.<br><br>I'm not the paranoid one BTW, those that think that such a small percentage in such a vast area matters are though.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: bird

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/25/08 10:13 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If you are arguing that an oil spill is not a mess, your insane. If you are arguing that saying that an oil spill is a problem is "liberal FUD", you are paranoid<p><hr></blockquote><p>NK I like the way you roll high fives on that comeback. <br>Pogo got it right!!!<br>“WE HAVE MET THE ENEMY AND HE IS US.”<br>The final authority on where this quotat...o say about it.<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/26/08 01:24 AM

You didn't get the point of my broccoli concentrate. There are many things that at natural high dilution cause no problems. Radon from granite, Uranium in the Morrison formation in Utah, natural oil seepage all over the world. But then man comes along and concentrates these chemicals so they can be exploited. The Gulf of Mexico is a large place but a spill is localized by its very nature. When an oil platform has a spill it is not spilling in the entire gulf it is wiping out wildlife along one section of the coast. That kind of catastrophe cannot be compared to a natural seepage. Natural seepage never gets to a high enough concentration at any point to overwhelm the natural balance of the ecology. The ecology is built to handle by natural breakdown the levels of natural seepage. <br><br>Adding up the numbers of natural seepage world wide and comparing it to one oil spill and saying, "oh the natural seepage is so much bigger" is like saying an atomic bomb blast in Manhattan is no big deal because the natural uranium in the environment is much much higher (which it is in total like the way you are doing with oil).<br><br>That is why what you are doing to these numbers is a crock. The Santa Barbara oil spill compared to natural seepage was miniscule. But it devastated Santa Barbara. The Exxon Valdez was miniscule compared to natural seepage but it devastated hundreds of miles of coastline of Prince William Sound which still have not recovered. That was 1989. The fish are still gone. You want to do that to our coast so we can get another year of driving SUVs?<br><br>Please cite a scientific paper which compares natural seepage of oil to oil spills and comes to the conclusion that oil spills are no big deal. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/26/08 05:00 AM

The Valdez was 11 million gallons, quite a large amount and as a result many more safeguards were enacted.<br><br>Santa Barbara was 3 million gallons, and was old technology in regards to oil platforms, they have many more safeguards now.<br><br>Try again, and you made some left field nuke comparison with Manhattan, stay focused, we're talking oil not nukes. And how many times do I have to give you all Geography lessons, the Gulf of Mexico is huge, Manhattan is a pimple on the butt for a size comparison.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Natural seepage never gets to a high enough concentration at any point to overwhelm the natural balance of the ecology.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Show me a scientific paper that comes to that conclusion.<br><br>------>#1 - JD's Trivia game<br><br>------>#2 - MM-MCF Trivia game
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Off-shore drilling is Safe! -No, really! - 07/26/08 07:23 AM

No one would write such a stupid paper because it is arguing a point where there is no counter argument. It would be like writing a paper proving there is no God. First there has to be a valid counter argument before such nonsense would be peer reviewed. <br><br>So you have to go first. Show me one paper that discusses even the remote possibility of natural oil seepage doing anything damaging to the environment. I'll even go out on a limb and say there is no valid paper using any of the numbers you are quoting. Meanwhile we can discuss all of these safeguards that are in place which caused McCain to call off his visit to New Orleans because of the stench of an oil spill a few days ago would have been embarrassing.<br><br><br><br><br><br>