That Rescue Operation...

Posted by: Mike

That Rescue Operation... - 07/04/08 04:16 PM

...in Colombia , simply an amazing story!<br>Kudos to the Colombian military!<br><br>[color:blue][/b]Hodie mihi. Cras tibi.</font color=blue>[/b]
Posted by: lanovami

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/04/08 05:54 PM

It is a great story. I am sure the made for TV movie script is 2/3rds written already by now.<br><br>We are STILL what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 10:47 AM

[color:blue]the cameraman.. just let go of the camera... they had their job to do...</font color=blue><br><br>Well I find that quite sinister... a cameraman's job is to keep the film rolling not put the camera down and start participating in acts of dubious legality off record.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 11:28 AM

I should know better than to ask, but why exactly the dubious legality?<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 11:58 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>... why exactly the dubious legality?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Well, that passage gave the impression that the cameraman was joining in as some kind of unappointed judge, juror and executioner all rolled into one when in fact the suspects had a right to a fair trial under the principle of due process. If someone is suspected of a crime then someone who happens to be a complete nobody of a cameraman is not supposed to start duffing people up or murdering them but at most arresting them so that they can be questioned and if appropriate put on trial.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 12:57 PM

The shadow passes over the shark ...<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: carp

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 01:23 PM

<br>[color:blue]a cameraman's job is to keep the film rolling not put the camera down and start participating in acts of dubious legality off record.</font color=blue><br><br>Well for one thing that was NOT a cameraman.<br><br>[color:blue]The 3-minute video was shot by Colombian soldiers posing as a media crew</font color=blue><br><br><br>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 01:24 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The shadow passes over the shark ... <p><hr></blockquote><p> ... in the White Room the shadows run from themselves...<br><br><embed width="448" height="361" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" src="http://i270.photobucket.com/player.swf?file=http://vid270.photobucket.com/albums/jj119/aubu47/WhiteRoom.flv"><br><br><br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 01:29 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The 3-minute video was shot by Colombian soldiers posing as a media crew<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah, well, doesn't mean he can operate like judge, jury and executioner - that's court martialable that is...<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 02:36 PM

As I said in the first place, I should know better than to ask.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/05/08 09:42 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Well, that passage gave the impression that the cameraman was joining in as some kind of unappointed judge, juror and executioner all rolled into one when in fact the suspects had a right to a fair trial under the principle of due process.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>from the article...<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The videotape does not include the moment when the two real FARC members aboard the helicopter were taken into custody, because the cameraman participated in that effort, Montoya said.<br><br>"They just let go of the camera," he said. "They had their job to do."<br><br>But it resumes rolling immediately afterward as the 15 longtime hostages are told they are actually in the hands of the national army.<br><br>...<br><br>The bloodless rescue was the product of a perfectly executed ruse that depended on old-school spy games rather than high-tech gadgetry.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>So what execution exactly? The article suggests that the FARC members were arrested, nothing indicates they were tried, judged or executed by anyone. I assume you're basing your comments on something not presented in this article? Maybe you can link to it and provide the rest of us with the inside details which aren't presented here.<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 01:31 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>So what execution exactly?... I assume you're basing your comments on something not presented in this article?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Well you're quite right that I wouldn't trust an article put out for public consumption by the regular US media. If the guerrillas weren't paid off and the whole thing not an elaborate cover up to conceal that a ransom had been paid what I want to know is what happened to the arrested FARC members?<br><br>But let's just say that the account is accurate word for word. I said that the selected passage "gave the impression" that someone was judge, juror and executioner or alternatively was party to a non-fatal assault when I said that a cameraman "is not supposed to start duffing people up or murdering them".<br><br>Of course we would have some assurance that no-one was duffed up if there had been continuous filming but what you've got is a gap. There is filming inside the helicopter but no sign of the arrested FARC members, so my question is - where are they?<br><br>km
Posted by: Mike

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 06:17 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>There is filming inside the helicopter but no sign of the arrested FARC members, so my question is - where are they?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Quite obviously the 'camera man' (a Colombian Special Forces member) was much more interested in filming the reactions of the liberated hostages when they were told that they were free. That -and only that- was the major good news item of the hour! I don't think anyone gave a rat's a$$ about the two FARC members!<br><br>[color:blue][/b]Hodie mihi. Cras tibi.</font color=blue>[/b]
Posted by: RedStudebaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 07:20 AM

20 million bucks made sure the 'operation' went well for the cameras.<br><br>The colombian military? Now there's a bastion of human and civil rights. Not brutal and repressive at all. Great PR. <br><br><br><br>A Collection of Documentaries <<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by RedStudebaker on 07/06/08 07:59 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 09:21 AM

C'mon Mike, you know perfectly well that from now on, every single military action (the FARC is the Frente Armado Revolucionario de Colombia . . . the Armed Revolutionary Front of Colombia), as well as every single arrest by the civil authorities, not to mention every single legal action, following arrest, from booking to arraignment to inquest to trial to sentencing to the long span of incarceration ifit comes to that--all of it needs to be on film because otherwise it is clearly an act of duplicitous violence disguised as the joy of sudden freedom.<br><br>Or, alternatively, the point is culturally biased, a profound mistrust of anything that any Latin American nation does. But then, Britain has has nothing by contempt for any nation that has a history in the Spanish rather than the British Empire. Oh . . . wait a minute . . . that's true of the US as well. So I guess km is on the side of the US after all.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 10:45 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>.... all of it needs to be on film<p><hr></blockquote><p>yeah but only if there's a camera already rolling and it would help to identify missing persons. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Britain has has nothing by contempt for any nation that has a history in the Spanish rather than the British Empire.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Well, we don't wanna keep going on about the Spanish Armada... don't forget Spain is part of the EU as well so they want to clinch this deal as much as anyone.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>So I guess km is on the side of the US after all.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Well, yeah, that goes without saying...<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 01:31 PM

First it was "some nobody cameraman" shirking his duty who actually was a Columbian soldier carrying out his mission ...<br><br>Then it was "duffing or murdering" people when it actually was a bloodless operation ...<br><br>Now apparently somebody is missing?<br><br>Sure wish you'd make up your mind ;-)<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 01:33 PM

Hmmmm . . . I wonder. . . could km and Dubya be one and the same man?<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 02:13 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Sure wish you'd make up your mind <p><hr></blockquote><p>My God some of you guys over the pond are so impressionable you'll believe anything. All I'm doing is asking questions which is what you lot should be doing because you were involved in the operation and too many things about this story don't quite fit together. <br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 03:09 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>too many things about this story don't quite fit together<p><hr></blockquote><p>They take off and only FARC is standing in the field below. Why do they not shoot them all? FARC and the army are too tied together possibly? That FARC and the army personnel may have staged the whole thing? <br>And don't say it is because they have to make sure that the captors are in the clear. All one needs is a military helicopter circling twenty miles away. It could have popped up and wasted everything on the ground after the captor helos are clear.<br><br>I've got a whole list of things that do not make sense but the FARC payoffs and bribes within the Columbian military makes this whole thing look like a publicity stunt. FARC will just go and kidnap 20 more people tomorrow. <br><br>If I was of the elite in Columbia I would double my bodyguard count starting today. Example number 7,291 why a drug war is stupid. As stupid as a "war on terror".<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 03:55 PM

See? Now those points I can digest, because they don't rely on some mangled interpretation of a news report, and because you are in fact asking questions based on the narrative provided rather than making stuff out of whole cloth ;-)<br><br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: polymerase

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 05:00 PM

I also have relatives in Columbia with bodyguards and they are screaming conservative Republicans because they have to.<br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 05:33 PM

[color:blue]Example number 7,291 why a drug war is stupid. As stupid as a "war on terror".</font color=blue><br><br>Well drugs ruin people lives and or addicts commit crimes that kills people - talking about HARD dugs like crack yada yada<br><br>War on Terror - Well they are just murdering "Mercenaries" with their on political agenda financed by spectors who want to manipulate the markets <-- remove the money and the terrorist will be back working at Burger Kings across the world<br><br>
Posted by: Lea

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 05:38 PM

Yeah, but then going to Burger King could get really weird. Probably even weirder than this thread. <br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 05:47 PM

Yep I have had food orders that were terrorized like I ordered a #2 but drove away with a #6 instead <-- so maybe them terrorist are already there <br><br>
Posted by: Lea

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 06:34 PM

I think you're right. I mean, think about how they disguise their voices with that garbled take your order stuff. Pretty clever disguise and dispensing all that fat heart pluggin' food to us Americans ~ that's like shooting fish in a barrel. We're doomed. <br><br>Well, damn. Now I want a Sourdough Jack. Good thing I should be working right now. <br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 07:30 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Well drugs ruin people lives<p><hr></blockquote><p> I would argue that drug wars ruin many more lives than drugs. If you controlled them and taxed them then the crime you mention does not occur nor does a lot of the rest of it. Marijuana has ruined many lives because of the people arrested and jailed. Has marijuana ever injured anyone? Has it ever in recorded history killed someone? Never unless you count killings because it is illegal.<br><br>Our illegal drug trade in cocaine has ruined a country, Columbia. The part that ruined their country is the fact that cocaine is illegal. Don't condone it but tax it. Making it illegal is just stupid. The FARC would not exist without drug money. It's just another type of gang. Why are gangs ruining major cities in the United States? Drug money. Don't spend multi billions catching kilos. Make it legal and tax it. The gangs then have no reason to exist. <br><br>Drugs don't ruin lives. Drug laws ruin lives. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/06/08 11:08 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I don't think anyone gave a rat's a$$ about the two FARC members!<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah well just as I said by my 'sinister' comment it seems that the camera stopped rolling to conceal what then took place. The Observer article quoting Betancourt says that 'they had their job to do' meant duffing up the suspects and stripping them naked. That's a humiliating assault that it is. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights Article 5 provides that "no one shall be subjected to cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment" but I notice that no one's talking about due process for that.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: Geetaro

Re: That Rescue Operation... - 07/07/08 05:57 PM

how many 10's of millions did they pay the 'rebels'?<br><br>hrmmm....<br><br>seen the movie Salvadore?<br>check it and freak!<br><br>Nature is always ready to humble us. Actually every day.