?Why not an angry black

Posted by: yoyo52

?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 04:50 PM

Watch Moyers' interview with Douglas Blackmon, who wrote Slavery by Another Name.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 05:09 PM

If you were black and could not prove that you were employed you would be arrested and imprisoned for vagrancy. Today, if you are black and you buy or sell drugs you are arrested and imprisoned.<br><br>But if you are white and even get caught stealing drugs for your drug habit you do not go to jail. Even if you steal drugs from a charity you do not spend one night in jail. You are invited onto the Today Show to tell of your sorrow and confess.<br><br>That would be Cindy McCain. The Cindy who has always loved her country. Of course she loves her country. The rich white country club country she was born in and protects her from any justice in this world.<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 05:19 PM

nice segue.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 05:29 PM

I just learned of Cindy's drug habit yesterday and her stealing from the charity she worked for to support her habit. She was writing out prescriptions to herself for 500 pills at a time. Serious jail time offenses.<br><br>But then as I watched Moyers I realized, serious jail time only if you do not have a lawyer or connections. Serious jail time if you are poor and black.<br><br>SlaveryByOnotherName dot com Check out the photographs. See Cindy? How about John McCain's grandpa or father who was an admiral in a Navy who allowed blacks to work in the galley. Only the galley.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 06:28 PM

There's an interesting conversation from that same show between Moyers, Orlando Patterson and Glen Loury that you can watch here. It ends up being political, considering the racial issues that Obama's candidacy raises. Much more sophisticated that usual.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 08:56 PM

I had a conversation with one of my mother's friends about 15 years ago and it got off to a fairly dull start. But then she mentioned that she and her husband were stationed in the late 1940s at an army base in South Carolina. I said, how did you like it there? "I didn't," she said. "I couldn't stand the way black people were treated." She said that when she and her husband would walk down the sidewalk and black folks were coming the other way, the blacks would get off the sidewalk and down into the street to let the white people go by. She said that one very hot July day and old black man came up to the takeaway window of this diner they were in and begged for some water. The proprietor asked them, as white people, if they would MIND---if they would MIND--- if he gave that old black man a glass of water. She had lots of experiences like that, and they offended her sense of justice. Why? Because she was human.<br><br>It really enrages me that I was starting school at the same time that these conditions still actually existed, and I never heard one single word from ANY teacher I ever had about this stuff. Nor about the slave ships, either. Nor about the conditions of actual institutional slavery. Or any of that horrifying disgrace. Not one word in all those years.<br><br>And as far as what I saw of the forced labor conditions described in Blackmon's book, that reminded me a lot of Nazi Germany. It didn't really look a whole lot different. But, of course, it WAS America, and we don't EVER want to say we're not 110% proud, all of the time, of America. People who aren't, are not worthy, and should get out.<br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 09:43 PM

[color:blue]Today, if you are black and you buy or sell drugs you are arrested and imprisoned.</font color=blue> <-- well it is illegal, so whats your /their point ?<br><br>[color:blue]But if you are white and even get caught stealing drugs for your drug habit you do not go to jail.</font color=blue> <-- Complete Bullshiit !!<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/23/08 09:59 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>But if you are white and even get caught stealing drugs for your drug habit you do not go to jail. <-- Complete Bullshiit !!<p><hr></blockquote><p> Really? Look up what punishment Cindy McCain got for stealing drugs. Then eat your words please. While you're at it look up the jail time for Rush Limbaugh. But stick with Cindy. She's more fun since she was caught red handed stealing from her charity. <br><br>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 03:28 AM

And yet your implication is any white person who steals drugs would be let off. I very much doubt that would be the case. More correctly if you have money and can afford the attourney then you will get off lightly.<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.
Posted by: mojo_jojo

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 03:28 AM

By any other name it's called white guilt. And the only solution is to cleanse one's soul by voting Obama. After all the messiah is promising absolution if you do. <br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 04:41 AM

Yes it is white guilt and certainly Moyers has it as he plays the repentant southerner who did not know, was not taught, and now is horrified by what his southern neighbors did.<br><br>But the "slavery happened 200 years ago" just does not wash when you realize what the book that started this thread is describing. It is describing de facto slavery up through World War II. If Moyers feels guilty it is because he is acknowledging his ignorance of facts which occurred in his lifetime and resonate today more than people who want to ignore it realize. <br><br>You can call it white guilt and declare racism dead and gone. The sins of a very remote and past generation. Ronald Reagan did that and it worked for him. He helped Republicanism become the most racist party in America relieving the Democrats of that job as Reagan and Republicans took ownership of the southern racists.<br><br>Hopefully that attitude will come to haunt the Republicans for generations as they are prohibited from the White House. One can hope. <br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 04:53 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And yet your implication is any white person who steals drugs would be let off. I very much doubt that would be the case. More correctly if you have money and can afford the attourney then you will get off lightly.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm implying no absolutes. And yes, one can justify the black white incarceration rates by ignoring everything but access to a good lawyer and blame it all on that and not the color of one's skin. But when you are caught red handed with your hand in the till and it is proven you have been stealing for years to support and gain access to drugs to support your addiction most people would be forced to do something a little bit more than to repay the cost of the stolen drugs. Maybe a few months of community service?<br><br>No, Cindy McCain was country club white and she got her date on the Today Show instead. Now if Michelle Obama did the same thing there would be even better lawyers on the job. Since it didn't happen no one knows what her punishment would be. Don Imus might say, "She's black, explains it all."<br><br>I haven't listened to the tape of what Imus actually said but his explanation seems very reasonable and plausible. He agrees with me.<br><br>[color:blue]"Warner and I were talking about 'Pacman' Jones being arrested six times," Imus said this morning, "and obviously they are picking on him. So I asked Warner what color he was. Obviously, I already knew what color he was... And I said there you go, that's the point. What people should be outraged about is they arrest blacks for no reason. There was no reason to arrest this kid six times."</font color=blue><br><br>If you are black you are much more likely to be rousted by the cops. To be arrested. To be incarcerated. To not understand that and chalk it up to "white guilt" is owning the same set of blinders that Moyer's neighbors owned when denying their culpability in perpetuating slavery in the south up through World War II. <br><br>Imus's explanation makes perfect sense.<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 08:36 AM

I moved to Miami in 1960 and recall very clearly the institutional racism of the place, down to the separation of white and black water fountains and toilets and so on. Restaurants proclaimed "No Negroes." Busses were segregated just in the way that Rosa Parks challenged. Schools were all-white or all-black.<br><br>And I'm old, but not that old.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 08:55 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Today, if you are black and you buy or sell drugs you are arrested and imprisoned. <-- well it is illegal, so whats your /their point ?<p><hr></blockquote><p> Watch the initial video of Moyers. Vagrancy was illegal. But being black in the south it was very difficult to prove that you were not a vagrant. You had to have a pay stub or you were arrested. Jobs that blacks could find in the south prior to 1940 very rarely came with a pay stub.<br><br>Yes I completely equate today's drug laws to this type of law. Marijuana is illegal but anyone in my town caught smoking it, all the way back to the 60s was dropped off at their parent's house. Not so fast for the inner city black. An arrest of that white kid in the suburbs could ruin his chances to getting into college. So it was very rarely done. Arrest a black kid in the inner city? Who cares? Snort some coke in the suburbs, not a big deal. Smoke crack in the projects, go to jail. For a long time. It's written into the code and into the activity of the police. If you do not think there is a difference in your chances of being rousted, of being arrested, or once arrested, being found guilty because of the color of your skin you don't have your eyes open.<br><br>What is the difference between Cindy McCain stealing from a charity to supply herself with opiates and the kid in the inner city supporting his habit by breaking and entering? The answer: One goes on the Today Show, the other goes to prison.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 10:43 AM

And yet for motoring offenses it can work the opposite. If you're a white guy in a late model sedan making some moving infraction the cop is more likely to pull you over than if you're an hispanic in a 1990's Toyota Tercel.... because you're more likely to be able to afford the fine and won't accuse the cop of racial profiling.<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.
Posted by: newkojak

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 12:36 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And yet for motoring offenses it can work the opposite. If you're a white guy in a late model sedan making some moving infraction the cop is more likely to pull you over than if you're an hispanic in a 1990's Toyota Tercel.... because you're more likely to be able to afford the fine and won't accuse the cop of racial profiling.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm a little bit curious to know which United States you are talking about here. There are plenty of functional examples of racial (tied to economic) inequality in our criminal justice system that give racial minorities and the poor the short end. I'm not sure why you would need to make up a barely plausible scenario to the contrary unless you just don't have anything else.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: lanovami

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 01:00 PM

I understand the inherent inequalities in the justice system by color. I think most people do. I think this is one reason so many black people were elated when OJ Simpson was found not guilty (the 1st time around anyway). I think deep down inside, everyone knew he did it, but it was nice to finally see a black guy get off.<br><br>We are STILL what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: newkojak

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 02:45 PM

There are certainly those same bitter feelings out there. You could probably find an identical 'man on the street' interview on some local nightly news cast regarding the R. Kelly trial.<br><br>The trouble is that there has never been a serious attempt made at fixing the situation. I remember back during the 2000 presidential debates, one of the questions thrown at both Al Gore and George W. Bush was what they could do to address racial inequalities in the United States. One (it doesn't really matter which) said that he would look at the sentencing guidelines between crack and powder cocaine. The other agreed.<br><br>That's what we got. The best solution, idea, or at least rumination on race during a presidential debate was cocaine. I am not sure if I am more saddened that this was what happened, or because I cannot think about anything said since then.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 07:56 PM

Because I've been on the receiving end of such a citation and have friends with similar stories. Cops arrest a black guy driving downtown in a luxuary sedan, and they pull white guys over in new vehicles when they're after funding (fine revenues). When they're after revenue they target one aspect of the populous and when they're after arrests they target other "easy" groups.<br><br>The same is true in the UK, you drive an affluent car you will be pulled for a spot fine over and above the 20 guys driving the small family sedan at the same speed. When you're after a fine you target the vehicles which would indicate that the owner can afford the fine (and there's possibly an aspect of jealousy involved), and in countries with means tested fines, you go from the BMW driver over the Toyota Corrola driver, because your revenue will be more.<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Llewelyn on 06/24/08 10:59 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 08:16 PM

So if your anecdotal evidence of you and your friends is true:<br><br>1) If you are rich and drive a late model sedan you risk being pulled over for an expensive citation when the police in your area need the money.<br><br>2) Otherwise, if you are black and driving an old crappy car you are more likely to be rousted and searched for drugs, arrested and incarcerated.<br><br>Gee, my white guilt says number one is such a burden.<br><br>But think what would happen if you were black and were driving that nice BMW. Hard to believe but it happens.<br><br>In my neighborhood the Boston Celtics live in suburbs around me. They know not to drive their expensive late model cars through Wellesley and a few other towns or else they may end up being pulled out of the car and it's face down on the sidewalk while they explain how a black person could possibly own such a nice car.<br><br>(Google Dee Brown Celtic arrest altercation sidewalk)<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/24/08 10:04 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>hink what would happen if you were black and were driving that nice BMW<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>We had a dean once who fits the bill. A black man, ex-b-ball player from Northwestern, tall, thin, elegant, owner of a Mercedes. Driving from here to DC one day, he and his wife are stopped by a cop in MD for no apparent reason, get frisked, the car searched, he harassed and threatened with jail.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: ?Why not an angry black - 06/25/08 05:47 AM

Pretty much yes. I don't see it so much as racism but more prototyping/stereotyping.<br><br>If the police want to get some sobriety arrests, they go to the common route between a bar and the residential neighbourhood - in the US south, that's typically an hispanic neighbourhood, in the UK that's the council housing - poor people who typically drink as entertainment.<br><br>If the police want revenue they turn to speeding motorists. If you're driving at 130mph they'll pull you no matter who you are or what you're driving. But if you're in generally flowing traffic that's 5mph over the speed limit, then you're a higher profile target if you're driving a nice car - Jaguar, Porsche will get pulled over a Ford Focus or Honda Civic.<br><br>If they just want more general arrests then they'll roust a few black kids, because stereotypically they'll get more hits - UK white skinheads are also a good target.<br><br>Maybe it does have a political bent, police departments are being judged more on results than they are on doing a good job - if they can improve arrest counts (regardless of underlying crime) and increase revenue then the politicians can report that the police are doing a good job - under their regime. Face it, it's easier to get a lazy arrest than it is to solve a crime - less man hours, more returns.<br><br>2 years back the Dallas police hit the hotel bars and arrested hotel guests who were over the drink/drive limit. Basically have you had a drink, blow into this, ok you're under arrest - but I'm a guest here, look here's my key, I don't plan to drive. The patrons spent the night in the drunk tank, more than a couple wives were arrested too. Needless to say that the hoteliers went ape at the council and that practice was quashed. There had been no prior complaints indicating that drunkeness in hotels was a problem or that drink driving was an issue - it was an easy arrest and the police could show "we're doing something about drunkeness".<br><br>I used to think it was terrible that life was unfair. Then I thought what if life were fair and all of the terrible things that happen came because we really deserved them? Now I take comfort in the general unfairness and hostility of the universe.