Clinton has issues

Posted by: garyW

Clinton has issues - 05/04/08 04:26 PM

Indiana residents received this mailer yesterday. Clinton has jumped the shark and is campaigning exactly like the GOP. As Obama said (and was misquoted), wedge issues like guns are used to divide when people are bitter about elected officials unable to make their lives better.<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: VarmintBlubber

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/04/08 06:17 PM

Clinton is apparently intent on taking this all the way to the bitter end. I fear it will end badly for Democrats. The longer she and Obama fight, the more resources they deplete, the more precious political capital they expend for the sake of one candidate coming out 'on top.' Gawd, and what a long and drawn-out process it is. No wonder you have to be a zillionaire to run for office!<br><br>Republican forces must be delighted by all of this ongoing aggravation and disorder in the Democratic house.<br><br>[color:red]_________________________</font color=red><br>[color:white]Max </font color=white><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/04/08 07:49 PM

Geez... is Carl Rove now her advisor ??<br><br>she's digging deep isn't she ?<br><br>next thing she'll be telling us is Charlton Heston endorsed her !! <br>{who could prove otherwise now ?}<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/04/08 07:58 PM

I do not presume to speak for anyone else<br>but she's certainly put me off the feed.<br>Wheras I started out open to either, her<br>tactics have made it damnear impossible<br>for me to toss her my vote.<br><br>But that's what she's counting on...<br>...that we detest McBush even more than her<br>and will vote Democratic come what may.<br><br>What SUX is that she'll be rewarded for <br>being a total ( )itch (you fill in the blank.)<br><br>So much for "Voter Reform" <br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/04/08 08:00 PM

eerrrrr ... witch ? <br><br>ah... ha, ha ha.... I'll get you my little "pretty" ...<br>and your little Obama too !! <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/04/08 08:05 PM

What sux even more is someone like<br>her as PotUSA for at least 4 years. <br><br>GOOD LORD! DO WE EVER NEED CHANGE!<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: eckhard

is it an issue for people? - 05/05/08 01:48 AM

Wedge or not ..... it would appear that Obama has been playing both sides of an issue here.<br>If he does it on guns (and he already has shown a similar attutude in respect to NAFTA) what could that say about him?<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: is it an issue for people? - 05/05/08 06:05 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Wedge or not ..... it would appear that Obama has been playing both sides of an issue here.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Really? Have you done any research on his positions on this issue?<br><br>As for this particular mailing, it really does take a set of brass to wildly mischaracterize the "cling to guns" snippet in a mailing specifically targeted at people who do, in fact, cling to their guns as an issue ... kind of proves Obama's point in spades, doesn't it?<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: FSM

Re: is it an issue for people? - 05/05/08 06:10 AM

<a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm">http://www.ontheissues.org/Domestic/Barack_Obama_Gun_Control.htm</a> -- that's Obama on the issue of guns. he has fought to reduce violence in inner cities and even agreed that the D.C. gun ban was okay, but he didn't fight to have that ban enacted in hunting communities as well. Clinton is trying to make it seem like Obama wants Indiana to have the same gun regulations as the south side of Chicago when he doesn't and hasn't ever made that claim. moreover, <a href="http://www.ontheissues.org/2008/Hillary_Clinton_Gun_Control.htm">Clinton has a record of flipping around wildly</a> on this issue that makes Obama look like an NRA candidate. <br><br><br>--<br>[color:red] Kansas Jayhawks -- 2008 National Champions </font color=red>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: is it an issue for people? - 05/05/08 06:54 AM

The more I look at this mailing, the more impressed I am with the sheer audacity of it:<br><br><br>- cover with a photo of a [color:green]hunting rifle and cammo gear</font color=green> ... (probaly would have had a different impact if it was, say, a shot of a Glock or a MAC 10, and some black leather gloves) ...<br> <br>[color:blue]"This mailing applies to YOU, fellow American hunter person!"</font color=blue><br><br><br>- while on the inside, a reference to Obama's supporting [color:red]handgun</font color=red> regulation ... (no mention, of course, that such regulation was a response to inner-city and school violence and had pretty much zero to do with rifles/hunting)<br><br>[color:blue]"Obama wants to take away YOUR guns, fellow American hunter person!"</font color=blue><br><br><br>- a second bullet citing Obama's general support for the Second Amendment "in order to get ... votes" (with a footnote citation right next to the last part, because you *know* the AP had that bit in their reporting ;-)<br><br>[color:blue]"Don't believe Obama when he says such things -- he just fishing for votes! He really DOES want to take away YOUR guns, fellow American hunter person!"</font color=blue><br><br><br>- a wild mischaracterization of Obama's words and intent in the final bullet, ironically designed to inflame they very people Obama was talking about ...<br><br>[color:blue]"Obama says you 'cling to guns!' What an insult!! But don't vote for him, because he'll take YOUR guns away from your clinging hands, fellow American hunter person!"</font color=blue><br><br><br>All, of course, reducing a fairly reasonable and nuanced position into a few easily-digested chunks of words that bear no resemblance to the original thought ...<br><br>Really, really ... just a wonderful - almost brilliant - example of political pandering/manipulation at it's worst ...<br><br>It's no wonder voters are tired of the "old way" of politicking ...<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Celandine

Re: is it an issue for people? - 05/05/08 10:03 AM

Yeah;<br>...and about Hillary Alternately Backing & Backing OFF NAFTA<br>depending on the direction the wind's blowing @ any given moment.<br><br>not even going to play this round of volley-ball<br><br>it's all pure kaka<br><br>and I'm getting tired of playing<br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: MrB

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 03:13 PM

I was thinking this morning as she was talking that I wouldn't be surprised to see a sound bite showing her at a gun range practicing. And she would if she thought it would help.<br><br>dave<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Clark

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 07:48 PM

[color:blue]"I wouldn't be surprised to see a sound bite showing her at a gun range practicing. And she would if she thought it would help."</font color=blue><br><br>She is the very best at pandering that I've ever seen.<br>Her gas tax gambit is a perfect example. She knows it is a one trick pony that will only hurt the consumer. She knows people are upset with the price of gas and she is pandering to their desperation. <br>The worst part is she has an ad that starts out by saying, "What has happened to Barack Obama? ... He is attacking Hillary’s plan to give you a break on gas prices because he doesn’t have one."<br>She's the one selling snake oil and then she has the audacity to try to show Obama as being the bad guy. <br><br><br>
Posted by: Clark

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 07:53 PM

psst... (b) or capital (B)<br><br>Good Margaret Hamilton there, David <br><br><br>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 08:12 PM

David Letterman, or somebody, said "Hillary is lying when she says she likes guns. If Hillary liked guns, Bill would be DEAD."<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 08:39 PM

<br>and the Centeur SCORES!<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 09:07 PM

Well, I think Obama ought to use that line for an ad against Hillary. Would he get in trouble for that? Because, actually, even though it's funny, it makes at least some sense. In fact, it makes more sense than her ad against Barack.<br><br>Well, I guess it's too late now. I sure hope he wins. I really have lost all of my fondness for Hillary! Ten times over.<br><br>
Posted by: MrB

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/05/08 11:15 PM

as was mentioned on CNN tonight, Folks are thinking they need it right now or this summer and, of course, that jsut ain't going to happen so her saying this is just crap. it really is a new low for her. IMO<br><br>dave<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/06/08 03:26 AM

NO kiddin Center ! ....or at least severely wounded.... <br><br>nevertheless ...one of his appendages would be a little shorter !! <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/06/08 05:19 AM

<br>Hillery's "TWISTERS" would Spin it as,<br>"Obama endorses homicide as a permanent cure for 'wandering husband syndrome',<br>and as the ultimate solution for solving domestic disputes and familial difficulties." <br><br>or whatever <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Pandering - 05/06/08 07:04 AM

I liked where she was riding in that huge white pickup truck that just happened to need refueling at a gas station where there just happened to be cameras waiting. You could make a whole pandering instructional video from Hillary's recent activities. And if she wins, you could also make a very alarming and dispiriting anthropological study of NC/IN voters who, instead of being insulted, went out and voted for her.<br><br>
Posted by: Lea

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 07:10 AM

I think they'd be insulted by the idea of being the subject of an anthropological study, simply because they choose to vote for her instead of MrO. Your dislike of Clinton supporters is obvious. And, just a tad insulting.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 07:58 AM

But the gasoline tax "vacation" ISN'T just a tad insulting?<br><br>Incidentally, I don't give a rat's ass if they'd be "insulted" by an anthropological study or not. They OUGHT to be insulted by the ads, and the phony, irrelevant "issues." What concerns me is whether or not they fall for the phony bait, and if they do, THAT really pisses me off, because (as Hillary almost-tearfully put it in NH) it's important. <br> <br> It IS important, all right, and she has proven that she has no honor whatsoever. I don't trust her. I don't like her, and I never will again. She has put her own ambition in front of party and country, and if the folks out there in Indiana will enable her, well, screw 'em. Socrates said the greatest sin is ignorance. I only ask for common sense, and paying a little attention to what's really happening out there, that's all I ask. <br><br>
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 08:01 AM

Now Lea-- don't be insulted. For you know God damned well that there are morons on any side of any aisle. <br><br>Now, instead of being insulted, care to comment on the gas tax issue? Though I haven't been keeping up on the forum as rigorously as I usually do, it seems I've missed any support that Hillary supporters have given her here.<br><br>
Posted by: Lea

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 08:34 AM

Now Jashue ~ don't be insulted, but you've been here just long enough to know there are probably only two Hillary supporters here, but obviously not long enough to know that I'm not one of them.<br><br>When you belittle the gas tax holiday, you belittle the people to whom it will make a real difference. Consider: You're trying to support a family of four, you have to commute to a low-paying job so every nickel counts. Let's see. Save 30 cents a gallon x a 20 gallon fillup = saving $6 per fillup x 2 fillups per week = about $50/month. $50 buys groceries. <br><br>A vast number of families make or break on that extra $50, so no, I don't have a problem with it.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: Lea

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 08:37 AM

So, when ODude goes bowling or sissy sips a beer, he's not pandering? That's not phony?<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 08:50 AM

gas holidays in the past have seen gas stations and oil companies just increase prices so the consumer didn't see the supposed benefits. this is also money that the feds lose coming off a year where we saw a major bridge collapse in the twin cities (I-35). <br><br><br><br>moreover, the gas tax holiday would have to make it through a dem controlled congress (more and more in favor of Obama, fwiw) in the next few weeks to be ready for labor day -- assuming Bush would even sign it.<br><br><br>--<br>[color:red] Kansas Jayhawks -- 2008 National Champions </font color=red>
Posted by: Lea

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 08:53 AM

I didn't say it would pass. He asked my opinion, and I gave it.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: Jashue

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 08:55 AM

Two fillups aweek? What percentage of the electorate goes through two fillups a week? My commute is 17.5 miles each way-- and most people ooo and ahh about it. But I fill my tank only about once per week and often times less. Now, I understand that those in places like Atlanta and LA have a different conception of the norm-- but I would be inclined that I am more in alignment with the national average.<br><br>Anyway... lets keep in mind with what would be lost by diverting funds away from other things with the gas tax... <br><br>What's the idiom? "Penny-wise and pound-foolish?" <br><br>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 09:01 AM

Two 20 gallon fillups per week= 40 gallons/wk x 20 mpg = 800 miles a week divided by five days equals 160 round trip commute, 80 each way. OK, subtract some incidental driving and you get 70 each way. I wouldn't take a low pay job 70 miles away; either that, or I'd at least move closer. That's a pretty far-out example. Besides, don't you know that the federal gas tax isn't 30 cents a gallon, but 17 cents? If I drove 1400 miles a month (as the average driver does) the gas tax vacation would save me about $10 a month. Meanwhile, the highway infrastructure (not in too good shape now) gets neglected, the people who would have maintained it get laid off from their jobs, and because of now-increased usage/oil company machinations, the price goes back up 17 a a gallon anyway. So now you have the same price as before, people laid off, roads neglected, and Hillary the nominee.<br><br>People ought to be mad. Even crazy about this type of [censored]! <br><br>
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 01:53 PM

Why are you assuming 2 20 gallon fillups is one car? Don't you know what happens when you assume? Most families have two people driving to different destinations so 2 fillups is more likely the norm.<br><br>I drive 35 miles one way, though I don't use 20 gallons in the week, usually about 13 to 15 if I'm the one driving for lunch. Won't save me much, but it will save me enough to buy coffee at the local shop 2 more days a week.<br><br>Obama's right about a "holiday" being a gimmick. What needs to be done is windfall profit taxes slapped on the corporations and you could eliminate state and federal tax on gas altogether.<br><br>And the Federal tax is not 17 cents. It's 18.4 cents. If you're going to harp on Lea about facts, shouldn't you care enough to get them straight?<br><br><br>Hey I'm an F'n Jerk!®
Posted by: DLC

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 03:11 PM

I think the gas tax cut is bad for several reasons...<br>(1) short term answer ... we have long term problems...<br>(2) Bush will never sign it... not with oil Cos paying for it.<br>(3) it's damm too little... too late.<br>(4) it will encourage others to be continue to be wasteful... <br><br>there are ways to save that amount or more on gas.<br>Plan "errand" trips to minimize unnecessary driving, drive 55-60, car pool, van pool, <br><br>the silver lining to this gas crunch is it will force many who have not, to look at their driving habits... we did 2 years ago !!<br>It will spur innovation and conservation.. which has badly been needed for many years.<br><br>People can be pissed, but we all brought it on ourselves... <br>now the gouging No, but our wasteful habits sure set it up for them. Congress needs to kill speculation in the oil futures.<br>That would do 10 X this pissy amount that will never get passed.<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Celandine

Something Ann would say - 05/06/08 04:23 PM

[color:white]. . . . . . </font color=white><br><h1>She's a “Controversy Slut”</h1><br>Why in God’s name the left falls for it and why the right <br>then feels the need to respond is absolutely nuts! This is <br>what she wants. She is playing us like a violin – right & <br>left. And the fact that this despicable woman then gets to <br>sit at home and laugh at all of us makes my blood boil.<br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: mojo_jojo

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 04:36 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>What needs to be done is windfall profit taxes slapped on the corporations and you could eliminate state and federal tax on gas altogether.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>And what industries are to be targeted? Oil companies? With an average profit margin of less than 9%? Or do we target Microsoft and or Apple that both have a 20+% profit margin? Both industries provide a necessity in today's society. Neither should be constrained or manipulated by legislation. <br><br>
Posted by: electricron

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 04:41 PM

Well, that's what you get from populist candidates in an election year.<br><br>Propose programs to lessen the pain of increased prices on anything, this year it's gasoline.<br><br>Note, McCain is for it too. <br><br>If you check the financial health of the Highway Trust Fund, it's much like Social Security, with surpluses today. It's the States that are having a difficult time raising their share for new highway projects.<br>You'll be surprised how much of the Highway Trust Fund eventually finds it way into General Funds. And cutting gas taxes will hurt other projects than Highways more.<br><br>Besides, 18 cents per gallon is so small the total of the price of gasoline today.<br>In Granbury, in oil rich Texas, the price for unleaded is $3.60 a gallon today.<br><br>Some math: 18/360 = .05, or 5%.<br><br>And that percentage will fall more if gasoline reaches $4 per gallon later this summer.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 10:54 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And what industries are to be targeted? Oil companies? With an average profit margin of less than 9%? Or do we target Microsoft and or Apple that both have a 20+% profit margin? Both industries provide a necessity in today's society. Neither should be constrained or manipulated by legislation<p><hr></blockquote><p> That is just hilarious! Please Google "oil industry lobbyist' and take your pick.<br><br><br>July 27 (Bloomberg) -- Oil and utility companies such as Exxon Mobil Corp. and Southern Co. spent $367 million over the last two years pushing the U.S. Congress to pass energy legislation. For many, the money was a good investment: lawmakers are poised to pass a measure providing about $11.6 billion in taxpayer subsidies.<br><br><br>When was the last time Microsoft or Apple lobbyists were able to jump onto this gravy train? <br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: Pandering - 05/06/08 11:08 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>that's what you get from populist candidates in an election year.<p><hr></blockquote><p>So now with Indiana and NC unmoved by the pander, you think starting tomorrow Hillary's going to keep fighting for that Summer Gas Tax Holiday? She's still going to sponsor a bill for it?<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Pandering - 05/07/08 04:02 AM

<br>ANOTHER "Controversy Slut"<br><br>She didn't want the Gas-Tax Holiday either <br>she just wanted to Paint Obama AS NOT WANTING IT.<br><br>Sorta like not intending to vote for EITHER Candidate, <br>but dripping poison into conversations just to spice things up.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/07/08 04:23 AM

exiting polling from Indiana:<br><br><br><br>another tidbit:<br><br><br><br><br>--<br>[color:red] Kansas Jayhawks -- 2008 National Champions </font color=red>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/07/08 05:20 AM

<br>The reason I don't consider demographics<br>is because I've yet to find my supposed niche<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/07/08 05:52 AM

if you can't find a niche that shows up in polls then there is no politician who is ever going to pander to you. <br><br><br>--<br>[color:red] Kansas Jayhawks -- 2008 National Champions </font color=red>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Clinton has issues - 05/07/08 08:46 AM

<br><br>damn <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>