There's been another isolated incident...

Posted by: keymaker

There's been another isolated incident... - 04/05/08 11:17 PM

British soldiers are facing prosecution for another isolated incident of torture in Iraq.<br><br>If any Iraqis or other Arabs looking in think they may be tortured by British or other foreign troops I would recommend that you try to get some weapons to defend yourselves - don't worry you have a right of self-defence.<br><br>There have been quite a few isolated incidents of torture involving British troops in Iraq. On one occasion in 2003 soldiers from the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers strapped an Iraqi to a forklift trick and repeatedly drove it into a wall. This latest one of April last year is said to have involved former wrestling champion and Shia tribal leader Jabbir Hmoud Kammash. Twenty soldiers broke unto his home causing his wife and kids to all start screaming - that's not allowed - Human Rights Act 1998, ECHR Art 8, everyone is entitled to respect for privare and family life. Then they took his money - that'll be First Protocal Art 1, protection of property, not to mention theft.<br><br>Anyway, along with two sons and three of his mates he was hooded and bundled off to the British military base in Basra. Two soldiers sat on his back which caused him great pain - not allowed - Art 3, prohibition of torture. Then they started kicking him and hitting him with rifle butts until blood started gushing out of his head so he needed medical treatment but even as he lay on his hospital bed, still hooded, someone started torturing him with a pencil and after stitching up his head they dragged him out of bed for interrogation, <br><br>After that they re-hooded him and dragged him off to some open ground where they made him sit on rough gravel on his knees - Art 3 again, inhuman or degrading treatment. Every time he felt sleepy a soldier kicked his back or hit him with a rifle butt to keep him awake - not allowed, Art 3, sleep deprivation.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/06/08 07:09 AM

If these are happening so frequently.....<br><br>ah how can they be isolated ?<br><br><br>is this the same logic that water boarding is recreation not torture ? <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: keymaker

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/06/08 07:54 AM

[color:blue]is this the same logic that water boarding is recreation not torture ? </font color=blue> <br><br>That's right although because both involve water some people get confused between surfing and waterboarding. Incidents of surfing are also quite isolated because not many people are confident in rough seas with great big waves. <br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: eckhard

do I take it that these cases ..... - 04/06/08 10:29 AM

<br><br>... will be heard before a regular court?<br>Military Courts should be discontinued. They belong into a time, when the Forces truly were a nation within a nation, and a modern democratic society should hold all its citizens up to the same law.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: do I take it that these cases ..... - 04/06/08 10:59 AM

That's right, the courts have jurisdiction after a House of Lords (highest court) ruling last June in the case of Baha Mousa, who died in custody with 93 injuries, that the European Convention on Human Rights had extra territorial application to protect prisoners detained by the military in Iraq. Attorney General Lord Goldsmith had advised the government otherwise but not for the first time his advice was based upon a misunderstanding of the law. I imagine that the courts wouldn't be invoked unless there was a failure to hold a military trubunal but I'd have to check that point.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/06/08 11:01 AM

<center><br><object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ix6RHyGttpA&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/Ix6RHyGttpA&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object><br><br>Torture memo reveals tortured legal justification for Bush regime's crimes<br><br>A Top Pentagon Lawyer Faces A Senate Grilling On Torture<br></center><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Celandine on 04/06/08 02:10 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/06/08 11:09 AM

Yeah I dealt with Yoo's memo the other day - he got it completely wrong.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: eckhard

Re: do I take it that these cases ..... - 04/06/08 11:13 AM

<br>So, if I read this right, Britain (normally) does have a military justice system besides the civilian one?<br>How common is the separation of military and civilian law these days?<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: do I take it that these cases ..... - 04/06/08 12:11 PM

Yes, a soldier can be dealt with by Court Martial for summary offences and some others with his consent if they are not too serious. I don't know where the boundary is on those but as far as I can work out from online resources Courts Martial only have sentencing powers of up to 2 years detention. The ECHR can be used to prize open cases that are not being proceded with but it doesn't create criminal offences as such so there would have to be charges for an appropriate indiictable crime such as murder, as was probably the case with Baha Mousa, over which the civilian Crown Court would have jurisdiction.<br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/06/08 12:36 PM

Precisely <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: keymaker

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/06/08 11:18 PM

Thanks for the follow up BTW - I just played the video. It's encouraging to know that the media can move upwards from the mind of someone like Yoo who gets the law completely wrong to an expert like Jonathan Turley who gets it completely right. <br><br>km<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: There's been another isolated incident... - 04/07/08 02:09 AM

<br>Aye<br>but 'the World's Turned Upside Down'<br>The Church is on land, and the people are left out at sea.<br>the scoundrel is rewarded, while a Gentleman & a Scholar<br>sinks into obscurity. That's the way the game is played now.<br>The worse you are the higher you rise. Where once the cream<br>rose to the top, in this admins., only turds are allowed to do so.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>