It just keeps getting better

Posted by: iMacsoontobe

It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 07:59 AM

now he would have left? which is it BHO...lieve this guy?<br><br>from the seagull<br><br>
Posted by: Lea

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 08:09 AM

I don't believe MrO's assertion that in all the years he attended Rev. Wright's services, he was clueless about this stuff. I do believe this interview demonstrates that he's just another pol. Stupid venue, though.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 08:16 AM

We have an Iraq War which has killed thousands and an economy flushing itself down the toilet. Record high foreclosures as people eat cat food to make balloon payments while the Fed bails out the culprits. Yet we spend endless hours discussing a preacher who spoke while a candidate was in attendance. No, I can't believe it. It is pure and unadulterated insanity.<br><br>And let's not forget Mrs B Hussein Obama hates America. <br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 08:20 AM

I'm not very happy with this. I thought Sen. Obama had done more than enough to explain his association in his speech and should have just left it at that. But he's now succumbing to the will of people who will never be satisfied. I mean, isn't it a blatant side-show when people are talking about what Rev. Wright said about Israel instead of looking at what Sen. Obama has done with Israel?<br><br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: newkojak

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 08:24 AM

To a great extent, the loudest people demanding the most of Sen. Obama also have shown how little they demand of other politicians. Any news commentator could have taken a look at what Brigham Young had to say about race and ask Mitt Romney why the Mormon faith honored him so well as a prophet, but it would have been ridiculous to do so.<br><br>This is a matter of guilt by association and sadly, it passes for political discourse instead of issues.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: polymerase

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 08:45 AM

When Chelsea Clinton was asked the other day if the Monica Lewinsky scandal showed a weakness in her mother's character. She replied it was "none of your business".<br><br>I wish Obama and others would have similar replies to nonsense questions. His reply to a "your preacher is a racist" question should be, "Is that what you feel is the most important question you can ask me?"<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 09:08 AM

Dude!<br><br>First of all he wasn't just a candidate in attendance! This was his spiritual mentor, what don't you get? <br><br>Are all those others issues more important? Of course they are, but how can a they ask those questions when the man has no experience!<br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 09:15 AM

Rev. Wright says he wasn't a spiritual mentor to Barack, fwiw.<br><br>
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 09:28 AM

but how does obama view him?<br><br>he probably said that our of being humble, or trying to be.....<br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 09:38 AM

WHO cares? I don't care what BOs preacher says- he's NOT running for President ! and BO has clearly rebuked the Preachers words saying HE doesn't believe that trash. What more does anyone want? This is McCarthy "guilt by association".<br><br>I was raised Baptist and I surely didn't agree with a bunch of ideas they had...<br>like evolution doesn't exist... dancing with your date is a sin, .. drinking is a sin... all non-believers are sinners and heathens and are going to H.... yada, yada, yada... and I eventually left ! But some of their beliefs were good, it wasn't all negative or bad. I think that fits BO and probably 50% of the rest of the country who were raised in churches but don't attend much any more.<br><br>The BIG questions are:<br>what do the 3 candidate propose to DO !<br>What do they Stand For ??<br>As a voter, which do I agree with most ?<br>As a voter, what can they do for the country, and my future ?<br><br>"More of the Insane", McCain... isn't the answer.<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: newkojak

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 09:42 AM

Most of the punditocracy wants to talk about Sen. Obama's former minister because it is something that fits their preconceived notion. They need a hook, however irrelevant to the issues of the campaign.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: polymerase

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 09:48 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>but how does obama view him?<p><hr></blockquote><p> I can only repeat, Why does it matter? My priest and pastor while I was growing up had zero say in how I would comport myself as President of the United States. God forbid any preacher has that power over anyone. <br><br>I would not believe Senator McCain should be sullied by his friendship and endorsement by Catholic hating Pastor Hagee even though McCain called Hagee “the staunchest leader of our Christian evangelical movement,” and praised his pro-Israel stance.<br><br>Now he is stupidly trying to distance himself from Hagee just as Obama is doing with Wright. "I repudiate any comments that are made, including Pastor Hagee's."<br><br>It is a stupid stupid topic. <br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 10:34 AM

"It is a stupid stupid topic. "<br><br><br>NOT, if you're a religious fruit-cake ! <br><br>I don't believe iMac fits that mold, so I have no clue why it matters to him.<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: newkojak

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 10:50 AM

No no no... it has nothing to do with religion. It has everything to do with sorry attempts to dish dirt. I have yet to hear a theological argument from the same gasbags that condemn Rev. Wright in one breath and coddle Rev. Robertson in the next. Can anyone say with a straight face that this has anything to do with Sen. Obama's actions as president?<br><br>No.<br><br>-- Cee Bee Double-U
Posted by: garyW

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 11:00 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>what don't you get?<p><hr></blockquote><p>So every churchgoer who was in attendance for Wright, at anytime, is equally morally corrupt, lacks judgement and hates America? Every child who might have heard Rev. Wright's sermons can never grow up to be president of the United States?<br><br>Any follower of Haggard is a lying homosexual meth user?<br>Any follower of Pat Robertson advocates assination of foreign leaders?<br>Any follower of any church who's clergy has abused young boys is also a pedophile?<br><br>and on and on. <br> <br><br>
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 11:05 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>We have an Iraq War which has killed thousands and an economy flushing itself down the toilet. Record high foreclosures as people eat cat food to make balloon payments while the Fed bails out the culprits. Yet we spend endless hours discussing a preacher who spoke while a candidate was in attendance. No, I can't believe it. It is pure and unadulterated insanity.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p>This is exactly what I've been saying. I wish I could tell Obama to do a Dubya when answering future questions about this: "I already talked about that. If you missed it go back and watch it. It's all over the internet. Now, let's talk about something worthwhile. We're not electing a preacher; we're electing a president." <br><br>I can't believe this discussion continues. WHO FUC[i][/i]KING CARES? If this is so important, why not go after all the white politicians who've lectured at Bob Jones University? <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 12:05 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>all the white politicians<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>You give the answer with the question. Not that I necessarily think of the response as "racist"--a word too often used, IMHO. It's just that for once the dominant majority gets to hear what the usually marginalized voices of the minority have to say, and it sounds different and shocking precisely because if comes from a normally marginalized voice. The kind of thing that Wright says is not news to most African Americans, particularly to older African Americans. That's one of the things that Obama said in that wonderful speech. It is news to most of the rest of us. And you know, even if the emperor is in fact wearing clothes, if he hears someone say that he's not wearing clothes it's going to disconcert him.<br><br>I won't express my opinion about the sartorial status of the emperor--done that elsewhere.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 02:40 PM

Well, Reverend Wright's statements do not surprise me at all. Where I grew up, slavery was alive and well, and I was often called "massa" by black people who were being completely respectful, not using it sarcastically as anyone today would have to be. White people may have paid them money for their labor, but it was less money than any white person could have lived on, and "they" were expected to go back to their quarters after work and stay there. You didn't see any of "their kind" in town after dark. By the time I was in 5th grade, I was positively mortified by all this. I felt helpless to change this gigantic evil which was simply more than I could take in. Most of my elders were super-racists. My teachers, coaches, preachers, police, politicians, storekeepers... they were all racist. We had the signs that said "no colored people allowed." We had "colored entrances" and drinking fountains. Needless to say, our schools were segregated. Most blacks worked at the sawmills, which usually owned the houses their employees lived in. Their days were timed by whistles which told them when they should get up, when they should go to work, when they could break for lunch, when they got off work, and when each shift would do the same. My parents were not racist, thank goodness, at least not so much as others. We were all racist; you were born into that society, and that's what you were until you consciously rejected it. To this day, I call myself a recovering racist, for even what I was by default for my first 10 years has to be consciously pushed back. I cannot forget what it was like and how horribly wicked I felt when I realized what we were, but to forget it might enable the hypocrisy we see in racial politics these days. There were a few lights in our community such as my family doctor, who was the first white doctor in the area to hire a black nurse. She gave shots to patients; that meant she touched them. For most, it was the first time they had ever touched or been touched by a black person. That forward-thinking doctor became my father-in-law. His nurse was like part of the family by that time. But I can take you to people who still think the world has not changed from those days. <br><br>It matters not that black people in the little town in which I grew up had been emancipated -- like all other American towns -- by Lincoln, 90 years before I was born. We had slavery, pure and simple. And Reverend Wright, who is much older than I am, saw far worse in his life, but he could not simply reject it, as I could. He was forced to live it. Just as some of the old white people still believe in their racist past even secretly, many old black people still believe they are living in that same society. That is exactly the challenge that Obama faces. We've got to extinguish these lingering embers of that wicked fire. On both sides. Anyone who thinks it's just one side is contemptibly stupid. <br><br>That world was never officially laid to rest. It's time we really and truly made a partnership of this nation. Time to collaborate, cross sides, dissolve "sides", pull down walls. I want this. I want it so badly. I want our people all to come together and to forgive, to forget the old ways, even if we remember them in history. <br><br>I want to see the conscious rejection and abolishment of the "N" word by all people, both black and white. I'm with George Carlin about all words but that one. That one word has so much evil, so much wicked power, that I just want to see it go away for a generation or two. Let it return after we've all forgotten it, and then it will be only a word. Maybe a "bad" word, but perhaps at least it won't carry the evil and wickedness that it now carries. For each one of us who grew up in that society has a dark spot in our hearts, and that word is the key to that spot. I would love to know that the dark spot in my 10-year-old heart, up to the time when I consciously rejected it, could heal and grow light again, and that all access to it is gone forever. I like to believe it is so; but when I hear that word, I remember it all too clearly. <br><br>I want Obama to be our president. I believe that will be the beginning of true healing. To know that the world looks up to a black man as its most powerful leader, and that mere words can't hurt him, that will be a day for rejoicing for all of us, I believe. <br><br>It is time. <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: mojo_jojo

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 04:36 PM

You can't be serious? Obama gets slobbered on by the media ad nauseam. Brigham Young's opinions 200 years ago have absolutely no equivalence today to Rev Wright's views. It is racists like Rev Wright that keep wrenching us backward while time, (which heals all wounds), continues to march on.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 05:06 PM

Yep. Ii remember the days of Jim Crow pretty well. When we moved to Miami in 1960, it was a sleepy little southern town with all of the Jim Crow laws in place. To get to my elementary school, I had to take a city bus to the bus depot, and then walk a couple of blocks to the school. The depot had the usual signs of the Jim Crow south. Colored and White bathrooms for men and women, colored and white water fountains. Blacks were required to sit in the back of the bus. The restaurant in the depot had a sign proclaiming<br><br><b style="color: black; font-size: 900%; font-family: 'Verdana','Helvetica',serif;">NO NEGROES[/b]<br><br>And although I was a fairly early part of the wave of Cuban refugees who ultimately helped transform Miami, I got the opportunity early on in life to appreciate the sentiments that someone had thoughtfully scrawled in magic marker under the printed message,<br><br><b style="color: black; font-size: 900%; font-family: 'Verdana','Helvetica',serif;">NO CUBANS[/b]<br><br>I have to say that the Cuban context I came from was profoundly racist--and the word did apply, as you say it applied where you were growing up. But the experience of being one of the ones denoted by the scrawl surely opened up my eyes very quickly. I still remember the result in my school of the Civil Rights Act of 1964. Suddenly the segregated school I'd gone to was no longer segregated. I had black kids sitting next to me, black teachers--it was great. They helped me to see why I had to join the Civil Rights movement of the mid sixties. It was a great time to stretch consciousness.<br><br>And you're absolutely right that racism hasn't died. But still I'm not sure that every single response that sounds like it might be racist is actually racist.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 05:27 PM

Here's the deal. The Rethugicans have nothing concrete to offer on any of the really important issues that confront us, so they have to throw mud hoping that some might stick. Do we want to try to change things or simply succumb to four more years of GW's policies (or lack thereof)? <br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 05:37 PM

That's my take- more of the Insane McCain offers NOTHING NEW !!<br><br>how can 72% say they're unhappy with the country's direction and vote for McCain ?? <br><br>the Polls don't make sense.<br><br>Considering the Dem turnout in the primaries, the race should be about 60-40%.<br><br>I wonder sometimes if the media Knows the truth... but doesn't want to spill the beans least everyone tune them out and there goes their "cash cow" !! so they skew the data to make the average Joe think it's horserace... Seabiscuit (D) vs an ole junk yard nag (R). <br>they get $$ hyping nothing !! who wants to kill the goose who lays golden eggs?<br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 05:49 PM

As long as we're telling personal experiences, I might as well bring in that other race that has all but been forgotten: Indians. Most of us don't like that term "Native Americans," because it sounds pretentious and because what we're native to wasn't called "America." It was just "the world." Ours was a strange kind of racism. The white men wanted to kill our men and marry our women. Then, their offspring were taught never to mention their Indian mother, who would agree to anything if her children got to live. A generation later, we thought we were white. Then we found out we were Indians. So what the heck are we? Both, I guess. Or neither. I have three lines of Indian ancestry. My kids have 5. But they also are descended from George Washington's chief Geographer, a British loyalist who only slowly warmed up to the new American Republic, so blue was his blood. <br><br>It was sure strange growing up with John Wayne movies where one of the Duke's bullets killed 40 of our kind. And our best couldn't hit him from point-blank range. At the turn of the century (1900) they didn't bother with "No Indians Allowed." They just shot 'em. <br><br>Maybe the problem in this country is that everyone belongs to SOME race, and EVERY race is reviled by some other race at some point in history, if not the present. And maybe it hurts a little when you look outside your windows and realize that there's someone standing out there looking in who is of another race, who happens to hate you for your own race. "Why the nerve! Don't they realize that WE'RE the good guys?<br><br>OH well... Lots of healing to do in this country. We're all guilty on some level or another, and it's time to cross the threshold, apologize for the past, and forgive for the future. <br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/28/08 08:36 PM

Oh yeah on Indians and on reconciliation. Again, that's why I think that saying "racism" about so many things isn't useful. The accusation shuts off discussion. That's one reason I thought Obama's speech was so powerful. He recognizes his grandmother's hurtful language as well as Wright's, but doesn't dismiss either one as simply "racist." There's room then for understanding.<br><br>[color:red]&#63743;</font color=red> [color:orange]&#63743;</font color=orange> [color:yellow]&#63743;</font color=yellow> [color:green]&#63743;</font color=green> [color:blue]&#63743;</font color=blue> [color:purple]&#63743;</font color=purple>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/29/08 04:49 AM

Wait a minute! Are you people saying that Obama's NOT a Muslim? Barack HUSSEIN Obama? Come on, I heard he was a Muslim!<br><br>AND, according to a Pew poll, 10% of Americans still think Barack's a Muslim! Their vote counts too, you know! As much as yours!<br><br> <br> <br><br>Winston Churchill said: "the best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter."<br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/29/08 06:00 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>You can't be serious? Obama gets slobbered on by the media ad nauseam.<p><hr></blockquote><p>the Saturday Night Live faux media, perhaps.<br><br>the rest of the media is choosing to stay on the Wright story despite 3 major speeches, including 2 on economics, by Obama since the race speech. the media makes decisions on what they'll cover and present to their audience. staying on Wright is not "slobbering" on Obama, fwiw.<br><br>
Posted by: FSM

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/29/08 06:03 AM

i have been using "Indians" for over a decade now and that's what i've taught my kids even though the schools here use, "Native Americans." when i lived in Lawrence back in the early 90s, we had a local college that changed its name to Haskell Indian Nations College, so i figured that's what i'd use as well.<br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/29/08 09:13 AM

"10% of Americans still think Barack's a Muslim!"<br><br>well the right wing talk show hosts are hopeless anyway... I wrote them off years ago ! <br><br>those 10% still believe the world is flat, evolution doesn't exist, the tooth fairy, Easter Bunny, and Santa Claus ! <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: It just keeps getting better - 03/30/08 01:07 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>i have been using "Indians" for over a decade now and that's what i've taught my kids even though the schools here use, "Native Americans." when i lived in Lawrence back in the early 90s, we had a local college that changed its name to Haskell Indian Nations College, so i figured that's what i'd use as well.<p><hr></blockquote><p>You're in good company. Go online to any of the Indian forums, and the users refer to themselves as Indians. Others are non-Indians. Or whites. Etc. My Choctaw newspaper talks about Indians, not Native Americans, though I think I've seen both. Mostly it talks about Choctaws. The only Native American I've seen who consistently ranted about the correctness of "native American" was that college professor guy who always went around with eagle feathers in his hair and carrying rattles, who was finally fired by his college. I don't remember his name, nor where he taught "Native American Studies." He wasn't Indian at all. He'd been given honorary membership in some tribe like the Kickapoos. I've got all the facts wrong, but you probably remember the guy. We talked about it over at MC when he was fired and went to court and lost that, too. <br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>