Fitna, the movie

Posted by: walzuhair

Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 02:58 AM

If you were following the news lately, the 15-minute movie "Fitna" have been causing rage in Islamic communities. To get a brief, a link on wiki explained it:<br>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fitna_(film)<br><br>The narrower the thinking, the more raged people become.. To borrow a thought from The Matrix' Merovingian, it's all cause and effect. Not to mention how the local cultures were disguised with Islam (like what happens to females of all ages in places like Sudan and Afghanistan is culture and NOT Islam).<br><br>As I was upset with the international reactions from the Danish cartoons, I'm now more upset with the reactions from this movie.. I was relieved to see more peaceful (non-violent) reactions on both occasions here in Saudi Arabia, I know the world is looking at us with a microscope.<br><br>Ok, going back to causality, what caused the misunderstanding?<br>- Hidden political and economical agendas of certain individuals, lead those individuals to plot the steps to achieve their goals.<br>- To achieve their goals, they've selected violence, as they have criminal minds and cannot think with other methods.<br>- The easiest way to recruit sheep is to appeal to them personally, and the fastest path to touch anybody personally is religion, with a blend of local cultures.<br>- In our region, Islam is the most common religion, thus it's the religion of choice to recruit as many people as possible. If they cannot be recruited, they'll at least be supporters.<br>- The plots were made and the violent spree began: assassinations, bombings, mass murders, militia, ... etc.<br>- The sheep wearing the cloak of Islam, started doing whatever their leader told them to, and since it was religious it was unquestionable.<br>+ Backfires: local cultures were exported/imported.<br>+ Backfires: the world's powers were not busy licking their wounds, but stood up.<br>+ Backfires: taking much longer than original plotted for, and new players started popping up.<br><br><br>The rest was bad history, and most of us witnessed it and it emotionally scarred us.. Among the scarred people are those who drew the cartoons and made the "Fitna" movie.. But did we, in the nations of Islam, try to heal the scars? No.. And for that I sincerely apologize for not making an effort in clarifying the bad picture those criminals painted of Islam. <br><br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: Inverted_Flag

Money is the root. - 03/28/08 02:54 PM

prayer<br><br>is that what this is all about?<br>and which people prey on which folks?<br><br>perhaps nothing is hidden anymore<br>I've seen old friends buy 30ish round clips for their glocks?<br><br>guess to defend against all the UNEDUCATED (highly skilled in cheating) vermin that's sure to come to a LCD/TV/Monitor near you; I mean corner.<br>blame so and so' policies<br>down to the families that could not afford to keep their young alive<br>to the young that become tools of big biz<br>not even free parks for them to bike, skate or race in...<br><br>just be patient they say<br>over. over. cough cough . over<br>it's...<br><br>[color:green]Cleansed by the grassroots hardcore.</font color=green>
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 05:01 PM

I am so sorry, Waleed. I had to go find the movie to understand what is happening. You're right. It's very inflammatory, and even I can see that it does not represent Islam, but the factions of violence which move under Islam's broad cloak. And yet it does speak some truth, too. Those pages are in the Koran, and it's up to Islam to desensitize them, if not remove them. Of course, removal will never happen, and those who preach to ignore those passages, or to interpret them symbolically, not literally, will be labeled heretics and demonized. <br><br>In other words, we're all in one big heap o' trouble. I don't know how to fix it; do you? I'm more angered and sorrowful that our very own Oval Office Occupant, Dubya, has unleashed forces of which he has no conception. His ignorance, however, was willful, and therefore is evil. The thousands of innocent lives lost to this illegal, immoral war can never be replaced or compensated for. It is beyond any reckoning. Neither Jihad, nor apology, nor atonement of any sort can ever set this right again. I think there is only one possible way to bring our nations, religions, and peoples back to peace: forgiveness. Everyone on both sides will have to forgive, unconditionally, and start again. Each side will have to police their own, because any attempts to defend ourselves or yourselves will only result in more violence. <br><br>Forgiveness is the only way to wipe the slate clean and put all people back on an even footing. Forgiveness is supposed to be built-in to Christianity, but I assure you it's not practiced broadly. Many of our fundamentalist sects actually DO understand the concept of forgiveness. Our problem is the every-day Christian who goes to church on Sunday, and for 2 hours after church feels very repentant and morally superior, then forgets all about religion until the wife drags him to church again the next Sunday. These are the people who are least likely to understand and practice the concept of forgiveness. These are the ones most likely to react to this film with "nuke 'em." Come to think of it, no need to make this a holy war. Our problem isn't just that every day Christian, but everyone who acts before they think. Anyone who can't forgive, anyone who can't say "calm down; let go of your anger," will be our problem. All our problems. Both sides. <br><br>This is a huge issue. If Islamists -- whether they are authentic or just using the cloak for their own ends -- push the right buttons in the West, I fear that they will indeed find themselves vaporized in a desert of vitreous sand. That's not a threat; I certainly do not mean to perpetrate the imagery of war. It's just the way our people will ultimately deal with something that threatens their very existence (in their minds). Such a reaction of course would be suicidal on our part, too, as it would touch off World War III, and the cockroaches would inherit New York City.<br><br>If that's the best the human race can do, then so be it. Maybe evolution will come up with better creatures next time around. But I would like to believe that humanity could learn to forgive before committing self-immolation in an atomic flash. <br><br>I sincerely hope we can look back at this in 20 years and breathe a sigh of relief that this path toward the flash-point was averted and healed. <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: mojo_jojo

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 05:09 PM

Wow. I just finished watching Fitna on YouTube. I cannot believe for one instant that rational, fellow human beings would ever have hatred for others to that degree. Those that do are not part of the brotherhood of man and need to be exposed and eliminated as a cancer. <br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Money is the root. - 03/28/08 09:06 PM

I couldn't understand your post, as English is not my native language..<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: Money is the root. - 03/28/08 09:12 PM

I don't know if anyone can really claim to "understand" the messages of inverted flag. We read them and absorb the vibrations. <br><br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 09:23 PM

I have friends who embrace different faiths and religions, and a couple who do not.. Still, we have a common denominator and that's humanity, which can never change no matter what. People are judged by their actions, not by the actions of other people with the same T-shirts..<br><br>I cannot hold a Jewish person responsible for everything that happens in Palestine.. <br>I cannot hold a British or an American person responsible for everything that happens by their governments.<br>I can, however, try to defend my religion when it's misrepresented with cold-blooded criminal acts like that.<br><br>Oh well... I doubt this turmoil will fade away in 20 years... 3 to 4 centuries see more like it..<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 09:34 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And for that I sincerely apologize for not making an effort in clarifying the bad picture those criminals painted of Islam. <p><hr></blockquote><p>There's certainly no need to apologize for anything. I think most of us here are above such things, certainly you are. As someone who's had many Muslim friends from Pakistan his whole life, I know better. We all know we have differing beliefs, and I think most of us respect each others faiths, or for some of us, non faiths. Yeah, we razz each other here, but hey what are friends for, right? After all, ultimately religion should be a personal thing. <br><br>Unfortunately, as always it seems, it's the few that are ruining it for the many. I just have to shake my head and wonder how long the many are going to put up with those few. Personally I don't think it will be much longer.<br><br><br>Hey I'm an F'n Jerk!
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 09:45 PM

Like in most holy books, they contain document history and highlight the moral of the stories.. Certain passages of historical documentation (NOT instructions) were linked with actual terrorist events and local acts from Sudan (female genitals), Afghanistan (female murder), and the Shi'aa (head bleeding with swords)..<br><br>Exactly how the sheep were trained to be "Muslim martyrs".. They are all criminals and Islam is not a faith of crime..<br><br>Here's something I found on YouTube that explains the history of Islam, if anybody is interested:<br>- Islam 1 of 5<br>- Islam 2 of 5<br>- Islam 3 of 5<br>- Islam 4 of 5<br>- Islam 5 of 5<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: Lea

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 10:02 PM

You shouldn't feel as though you have to clarify anything, Waleed. This kind of thing no more represents Islam than our Ku Klux Klan represents American Christianity. It all brings to mind one of my favorite quotes ~<br><br>"We are not enemies, but friends. We must not be enemies. Though passion may have strained, it must not break our bonds of affection. The mystic chords of memory will swell when again touched, as surely they will be, by the better angels of our nature." ~ Mr. Lincoln, from his first Inaugural address. <br><br>Sadly, our country went on the fight the Civil War, but to this day, those words still inspire hope.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:white]xx</font color=white>[color:blue]I always deserve it. Really.</font color=blue><br><br>
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 10:07 PM

Many of us have Muslim friends. But this is so far beyond friends and people of good will. Who can stop this tide? <br><br>Waleed, you probably know that I'm very critical of our leaders. I'm not one who hates authority. I'm just one who hates the abuse of power. Our current president abuses power for the benefit of his group of friends and associates. A lot of people don't like that I'm so critical of him and his staff, but the way I see things, it is my responsibility as a patriotic American to strongly voice my dissent when our president wages war on people illegally and kills innocent people, even if he gets his targeted enemy in the process. <br><br>I can only hope that more people join me over time -- and that has happened, but not because of me. It's just that others have gradually seen what I see, and now they are critical, too. At least we are now forming a mass of people who can be seen and heard just about anywhere you turn in the USA. On the internet or on tv or radio or in concerts or in books and magazines and newspapers -- you hear our voice now. 6 years ago, we were called traitors, and accused of treason. Now we are the majority.<br><br>I can only hope that in your part of the world you all will do the same. Criticize the evil criminals who are committing such horrible crimes in the name of Islam. Bring together masses of people who normally are not heard. Let the world hear you. Let everyone know that Islam is NOT for murderers and cruelty. If you don't, the world will believe that film. <br><br>It's going to take thousands, then millions, of voices of Islam, all singing out the message "we do not tolerate murderers. Allah does not tolerate murder." The world must see this. The murderers must see it and they must be outcast from their own society. If the USA has go go after them, or England or France or Russia or any other country, it will only be used as fuel to recruit more members. But if young Muslims know that those people are evil and must be shunned, then you stand a chance to turn the tide from within, as it should be turned. <br><br>I think it's the only way. Well... the only way short of wars.<br><br>I've never met a Muslim in person that I didn't like. I hope I can always say that. <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Shooshie on 03/29/08 01:23 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 10:26 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Who can stop this tide? <p><hr></blockquote><p>Well to be frank, it'll probably be athiests like Poly, Sean and myself.<br><br>Because as long as there is religion, this stupid [censored] will be going on.<br><br><br>Hey I'm an F'n Jerk!
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 11:35 PM

Actually, it may not be the tide we think. There is good news:<br><br>Fitna not causing the stir that was feared. It seems that the movie is only saying what has been said. Many of those pictured in the movie are being prosecuted in their own countries. Maybe the world isn't so impressionable as we feared. <br><br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/28/08 11:45 PM

This current situation indeed seems to be a rift between the West and the Islamic world and it does bother me too. Kind of ironically in a perverted way, here in Finland for instance, it has come to a point where some native Finnish-born [middle-aged] converts to Islam decided to start an Islamic political party with among others, promoting to get Sharia incorporated into Finnish law. (Well, there's a saying about converts being the most eager in their beliefs and actions) Not sure if they've gained that many followers though, even or especially from the immigrant moslems here. And never mind that they have apparently been involved in whatever small-time grassroots political movement has been in fashion at a given time.<br><br>What I see and am afraid of and even witnessing on discussion forums for instance, what is happening is pretty much what others also said. That is, the ones most vocally opposing Islam do not even know one single Moslem or have even read much about it, except the extreme ones they see in the media, yet they claim they now know Islam. Sure they do...they know the propaganda being fed to them daily. This just happened when a radical Dutch imam was interviewed by a Finnish paper about that movie and quite soon after its release now there are already comments basically stating all Islam is that same extremist stuff. Yet, at the same time, similar atrocities and other deeds can directly be attributed to christianity also. And not even that long ago.<br><br>Personally, I don't know any moslems to my knowledge, but I really do not want to jump the bandwagon condemning an entire religion just because it doesn't happen to be the same one my own culture instilled on me while growing up, though I did shed it off at a rather young age. Also the whole hypocrisy by people claiming they are religious -- any religion -- sickens me time after another as people might insist on their supposedly superior moral values yet in the same sentence condemn more than two thirds (at least) of this planet's population -- which I thought to be my and their fellow brethren -- only because they do not share the same creed. Naturally, I've seen people claiming their christian faith doing this all my life as that is with all its sects or factions or whatever, the dominant religion in the West, and at the same time I've been fed images of radical Islam whenever there has been a conflict involving westerners and Islamists.<br><br>No matter how secular the West claims to have become, religion and religions are still being used as a vehicle of propaganda, message of propaganda and means of propaganda in conflicts by the ruling elite. Not to mention how religions are most often being used as one rather efficient way of controlling the masses of population by the elite. As a civilization, we are eons away of advancing to a level where faith should be ultimately just a personal thing and nothing more, like Sarge for instance mentioned.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/29/08 09:00 AM

<br>Thank you.<br><br>That was the most Enlightening 45 Minutes I've spent in a long long time.<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: mojo_jojo

Re: Fitna, the movie - 03/29/08 01:14 PM

I whole heartedly endorse your post. You are right on the money. It is our freedoms in the US that welcome dissenting opinions and criticisms of our leaders. In order for the Muslim world to dissent against the outrage in the name of religion will only come with freedom. I don't believe that the west can seriously impose our views of freedom on the Islamic world. Somehow, they have to find their own way. I imagine that as long as oil is in the mix, tyranny will reign. Easy money begets corruption and oppression. <br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by mojo_jojo on 03/29/08 04:25 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: eckhard

storm in the tea-cup - 03/29/08 03:07 PM

<br>Encouragingly, many of the European Islamic associations have responded very calmly. One - I believe the Dutch - even offered to air the film on their network, as long as the director - Wilders - would be prepaid to appear for an interview, which he declined.<br><br>The "Film" is truly poorly made, nothing new in it, and one can only hope that the more moderate Muslims will take this opportunity to point out that some things aren't worth fighting for. Wilders is a stupid jerk and doesn't deserve the clicks.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/29/08 06:42 PM

Well, it wasn't a total waste of time.<br>For one thing, I got to watch Waleed's links<br>that was definitely worth the time, I suggest others may want to check them out as well<br><br>Then I searched for the movie, but couldn't locate a copy (in truth dint search too hard)<br><br>but what I did find was interesting: <br><br><object width="425" height="355"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/PJqvVlwy1Us&hl=en"></param><param name="wmode" value="transparent"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/PJqvVlwy1Us&hl=en" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" wmode="transparent" width="425" height="355"></embed></object><br><br>Zionism versus Judaism Pt 1/6<br><br>Zionism versus Judaism Pt 2/6<br><br>Zionism versus Judaism Pt 3/6<br><br>Zionism versus Judaism Pt 4/6<br><br>Zionism versus Judaism Pt 5/6<br><br>Zionism versus Judaism Pt 6/6<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: eckhard

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/30/08 01:16 AM

<br>Yes, very interesting links.<br><br>The fact that Judaism, Christianity and Islam are really first cousins, makes their mutual hate all that much greater. <br>Thus, the fundamentalist, power hungry factions of each, provide food for their counterparts on the "enemy" side.<br>Idiotic!<br><br>Religion should really be relegated to the home.... <br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/30/08 04:54 AM

<br>Well, my point was rather that there's mischief afoot<br>in that the two faiths are not cousins, but brothers by another mother<br><br>and that Christianity & Zionism are the two at odds that hijacked BOTH <br>and set them at each other's throats for their own purpose: CONTROL.<br><br>It kind of begs the question, again, of exactly WHO are the 'TERRISTS'?<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green> [color:green]. . . _ _ _ . . .</font color=green><br>
Posted by: eckhard

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/30/08 05:50 AM

<br>It's a ruse. <br><br>AQ has killed some 4000 people - fewer than die from drunk drivers in any given year - compared with hundreds of thousands in "retaliation". A similar means of accounting takes place between Palestine and Israel<br>Something is truly askew here.<br><br>Meanwhile, terrorism has served to undermine civil rights throughout the westen world and to generate Billion$ windfalls for the arms manufacturers. No wonder the concept needs to be kept alive.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Centercentaur

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/30/08 10:05 PM

I only watched the first video, but that was enough. It reminded me of why I so much admired Jews when I was young. That rabbi talking to hostile listeners is a just, and a very brave man, the best that Judaism has to offer, the wonderful Judaism that is reflected in such human idealism and martyrdom as we have seen in people like Michael Schwermer and Andrew Goodman.<br><br>I heard this morning from NPR a segment on how it was when they came across Dachau, and I've heard these things 1000s of times. The very word "holocaust" has been taken over by the Zionists, to the exclusion of every other holocaust ever witnessed by this sad world, even to the exclusion of the WWII Jews' fellow victims, the gypsies, the gays, the communists, and the Slavs. "Hitler killed the Jews" is all we ever hear.<br><br>Will Washington DC ever eventually have, maybe around the year 2080, another "Holocaust" Museum to commemorate the deaths (and crushed lives) of so many contemporary Palestinians? Will there ever be, in Washington DC, a monument for the sacrifice of such people as the American young woman Rachael Corrie?<br><br>I'm glad I saw that rabbi. Things aren't completely bad. Maybe, when I get a chance, I'll go down to Brooklyn, and visit Williamsburg and seek out, like Diogenes, more of these (seemingly rare) just men.<br><br>As far as the Dutch politician who made this film is concerned, he is a demagogue. There is a lot of truth in his film, but much more dishonest, biased, cherry-picking against Islam. Better there were no religions at all, anywhere, for anyone: no Pat Robertson, no Osama bin Laden, no Meyer Kihane.<br><br>
Posted by: Shooshie

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/30/08 10:35 PM

You know, some day the world is going to have to accept what rational people already see: religion is the poison of the world. If you want to practice it in private, with no effort to involve anyone else, I guess that's one's civil liberty. But to use a religion as a group for political power, ultimately launching wars against other religions, then it's absolutely evil. Likewise, mutilating women, and using religion to control anyone else in any way, is also evil. Perhaps we can work out a way to make religion possible for individuals while prohibiting and eliminating all group-actions by religions, starting with the act of funding the churches. Cut off the money supply, and most religions would die a quick death, since that's basically what they're all about. <br><br>Shooshie<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pictures and things</font color=green>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/31/08 01:16 AM

Most religions have started with a person taking a stand against skewed social behaviors. The person is called a prophet or messenger when divine miracles empower the person as proof to help strengthen their convictions.<br><br>Most skewed social behaviors were against the poor, weak, or minorities; That's why they're the first followers of those taking a stand for them. But they all call for a better society and type of life: no killing, no stealing, be honest and truthful, care for others as you care for yourself, be kind, ... etc.<br><br>It can only be poisonous when the purpose is changed..<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: eckhard

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/31/08 01:29 AM

<br>The greatest problems stem from the three monotheistic religions, because mono implies "only, best, true" and thus contains the basic elements for exclusion and judgement, because - clearly - only those believing in one's own god can be correct.<br><br>It is truly absurd that through three semitic religions, which are so incredibly close to one another, we have been fighting a Middle East crisis for two millennia.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/31/08 08:39 AM

Once we reach the clarity of thought, that the choice of religion is as personal as choosing what to eat at a restaurant, then most hate would fade away.<br><br>A side question: is the young lady in your avatar your daughter Katarina (spelling)?<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: eckhard

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/31/08 01:14 PM

<br>Indeed, that's Katrina.<br>I'm a single Dad since 2005, when she decided to stay with me in Berlin, instead of going back to Canada. She's almost 14 now.<br>Nice that you remembered!<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/31/08 03:56 PM

They grow up fast, don't they.. My daughter, Alhanoof, is 16 and I remember it like yesterday when we were teaching her how to walk :)<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 03/31/08 07:38 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Once we reach the clarity of thought, that the choice of religion is as personal as choosing what to eat at a restaurant, then most hate would fade away.<p><hr></blockquote><p>A wonderful sentiment but as we all know, right now, very much wishful thinking. All people who riot in the streets or force their governments to act in outrageous demeaning ways to support a religion have got to realize what a screwed up thing it is to riot, and kill people becaues of some insult to their religion. All religions have done this at one time or another but right now Islam is under the microscope because of government sanctioned repression in Iran, Saudi Arabia and other countries. It may look separate but from the outside it is all about Islam. <br><br>The hate will fade away when religion is just a personal choice not connected with governments or clergy or politicians or armies or rioters. But until that time I believe all religions are a poison upon this world. Each and every one of them is a cancer on this earth that infects the minds of the young and turns them into zombies that react in pathetic ways. Rioting about cartoons and movies or flying planes into buildings. <br><br>If the religion of Islam wants to be a real religion that can grow and prosper without people getting angry they have to somehow divest themselves of all the vileness which is being preached in the name of Islam. Good luck with that.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: eckhard

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 04/01/08 12:37 AM

[color:blue]If the religion of Islam wants to be a real religion that can grow and prosper without people getting angry they have to somehow divest themselves of all the vileness which is being preached in the name of Islam. Good luck with that.</font color=blue><br><br>If the religion of Christianity ....<br>If the religion of Judaism ....<br>Good luck with that! The "Three Sisters" aren't likely to divest themselves of anything soon. <br><br>Used to be really easy before: Conquer a neighbour, give him some of your gods and take a few of his .... then everybody party.<br>It also allowed religion to preserve a much needed sense of humour. Look at the Greeks or Romans or Germans. Their gods had a blast.<br>Is there even one single joke in the Torah/Qran/Bible? The only stories coming close are that "go up the mountain and sacrifice your son" thing with Abraham, or the story of Job. But they are hardly the "laughing is the best medicine" kind. <br><br>When the first Christians were sentenced in Rome, by the way, it wasn't because they prayed to the wrong god, but rather that they "only" prayed to one. They left the judiciary really no choice, even though some judges were suggesting to just go and buy the required chicken for whomever and then get on with life ..... but no, so much better, to die as martyrs instead. <br>"Better dead than red", eh? ;)<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 04/01/08 03:52 AM

All three of the monotheistic religions are in the same boat though I seem to be picking on Islam because they are taking their turn being violent these days and we did start this thread with the movie pointing out that violence and the violence or at least the presumed violence which will spring from the showing of said movie.<br><br>We always seem to be talking of violence whenever we discuss any of these three. Here in the states we end up discussing the difference between from of religion and freedom from religion. If we end up accommodating all religions we will end up with a pretty trashed out commons.<br><br>But I see a new thread with my favorite atheist ... <br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: storm in the tea-cup - 04/01/08 01:21 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If the religion of Islam wants to be a real religion that can grow and prosper without people getting angry they have to somehow divest themselves of all the vileness which is being preached in the name of Islam. Good luck with that.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Sad, but true... <br>With the help of the world's media, only the bad and violent is heard.. The good efforts don't spread for people to realize the alternatives.. To make others happier.. To welcome with a hug, instead of pushing away with a weapon..<br><br>[color:blue]flick</font color=blue>[color:red]r</font color=red>