Who did what to whom?

Posted by: walzuhair

Who did what to whom? - 07/31/06 01:03 PM

I've been hesitating a lot about visiting MM again, but I did. I know I cannot and will not change anything, but I had to express my feelings.<br><br>I came to Political Soapbox to find heated discussions about the conflict in the Middle East and who hit the other first. Of course most of the opinions built based on what the media broadcasts or prints, that's how they make money. Nonetheless, that does not change the fact that people are being killed in the world... Bombs? Rockets? Blood? Pain? Tears?<br><br>Does it really matter who did what to whom? What justifies death? Take off the hat of nationality, religion, ethnic group, and we're left with people.. Doesn't that break your heart? Who gave anybody the right to take a life? Is it all about possessions? Do possessions justify taking a life?<br><br>I don't want to sound like a Buddhist, but it's not worth it.. Life is too short without all that pain. Think of relatives and friends of those who died.. Forget about history, you're not obligated to follow what the people before did. Nobody is.. Why inherit faults and fight for them..<br><br>Nothing I write would scream the pain I have inside me now.. I wish I was more eloquent..<br><br>---<br>www.waleedsgallery.biz
Posted by: steveg

Re: Who did what to whom? - 07/31/06 01:35 PM

Good to see you again. And especially good to hear a voice from that part of the world. I hope you and your family are well.<br><br>I don't think anyone here feels that there's any upside to this or any conflict. But in this case, whatever was done to whomever first happened so long ago, and is rooted in so many tangled idealogical and political aspects that I doubt it can ever be sorted out. Each side has evolved it's own history of events over thousands of years. And neither side is willing to accept even a part of the other's version. It's a senseless and murderous deadlock that has only festered over time.<br><br>Can't we all just get along? You'd think so. But the world has become to damned complex for such a simple solution. <br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Who did what to whom? - 07/31/06 02:40 PM

All are well, thanks for asking Steve.. Going back to the topic..<br><br>Discussion and debates are a healthy thing to have, it leads everybody to conclusions with options to go through.. All nice. The thing that I disliked was the anger behind it..<br><br>Going to the fact that we cannot change what's happening in the world, we can start with ourselves and children. Why should we copy other people's views and opinions and raise our children based on them?<br><br>If we see a wounded animal in the street, we'll try to help it.. Why some people cannot treat people like animals..<br><br>Oh well, forgive me for my burst in this thread, and hope things improve..<br><br>---<br>www.waleedsgallery.biz
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Who did what to whom? - 07/31/06 02:50 PM

I'm very glad to see you here Waleed. You've always have so reasonable a perspective and expressed it with so much balance and humility (something that the world is sorely in need of). As far as I'm concerned, you're absolutely right. Almost nothing is worth the destruction of life, period. On the other hand, in the case of what's going on in Israel, Lebanon, Gaza, and the West Bank right now, I can understand that people would see that their very existence is endangered by the "other side." Being naive, and not believing that people could be cynical enough to kill in order to arouse passions and therefore war, I think that at the heart of the conflicts is fear of annihilation. How to get beyond that fear, if that' possible at all, is the key question.<br><br>PS: Please don't disappear again!<br><br>. . . . . Here's lookin' at [color:red]you</font color=red> kid.
Posted by: ChrisN

Re: Who did what to whom? - 07/31/06 05:12 PM

Hello Waleed, very good to see you here again. On the contrary, what you wrote is quite eloquent and makes more sense than anything else I have read in a long time. You have described the essence of life, without all of the unnecessary baggage we humans tend to carry around with us. Some people forget that we all are different and in that we are all alike. I hope that makes sense.<br><br>Take care,<br><br>Chris <br><br><br><br><br>Light-Imagery<br><br> <br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Who did what to whom? - 07/31/06 06:41 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Is it all about possessions<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Too True, my friend.<br><br>
Posted by: Pete

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/02/06 07:41 AM

Welcome back, stick around a while...<br><br>
Posted by: Michael

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/02/06 07:59 AM

I believe it's a safe assumption that if you actually took just the top few from any warring groups and locked them in area by themselves and then ask them, You want a war? You want to crush your enemy? Well here you go. That they would come to a compromise and truce pretty dam quick. Wars continue because it's not fought by the ones who insist it go on.<br><br>***Leoville
Posted by: bird

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/02/06 08:20 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Forget about history, you're not obligated to follow what the people before did. Nobody is.. Why inherit faults and fight for them..<p><hr></blockquote><p> <br>That says it all, Cuz your thoughts couldn't be any more eloquent,,,<br>all "We" are saying is give Peace a chance Your always in my thoughts <br>Esp when I drink my first cup of coffee in the morning....and when I check the time... love you Kiddo, <br><br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/02/06 09:29 AM

Thanks for the warm welcome backs everybody.. Aunt Candy, always in our mind..<br><br>I don't why I suffer from all the killings or any type of abuse, I just put a very high price tag on life that tops anything, everything else just looks cheaper..<br><br>In Jan 1991, I was on a business trip to San Francisco and in one of the taxi rides I had a chat with the taxi driver. She said her son was sent to fight in the Gulf War (she was welling up) and if it was up to her she would put Saddam & Bush in a boxing ring to end it all... She too thought of who was responsible.<br><br>010 DECISING MAKERS<br>020-----train (media)<br>030----------MEDIA<br>040---------------inject_people (religion)<br>050---------------inject_people (school)<br>060---------------inject_people (gossip)<br>070---------------inject_people (news)<br>080---------------inject_people (war)<br>090----------MEDIA end<br>100-----train (people)<br>110----------PEOPLE<br>120---------------inject_people (hate)<br>130---------------inject_people (pain)<br>140---------------inject_people (war)<br>150----------PEOPLE end<br>160-----train end<br>170-----check_result (financial)<br>180----------if (OK) GOTO peace<br>190---------------ELSE GOTO 020<br>120----------end-if<br><br>010 PEACE<br>020 -----PAUSE n_second<br>030 -----GOTO DECISING MAKERS<br><br>So very basic, eh<br><br>---<br>www.waleedsgallery.biz
Posted by: sean

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/02/06 07:46 PM

nicely stated waleed. good to see you around here again and i wish more people in power felt like you do about the situation . . . or any conflict for that matter. <br><br>--<br>"I am mindful that diversity is one of the strengths of the country" --president bush on 9/27/05
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/03/06 01:17 PM

Well put. People like to debate about things they have never experienced. War is no different to them than a movie. CNN or PPV is the same to them, just a form of entertainment to make their miserably simple lives more entertaining.<br><br>In the end, a movie is filmed in Hollywood while CNN is a cut and edited version of reality. This reality is dark and sickening. Sons and daughters, fathers and mothers, wives and husbands are dying every day. They are no different than those of the ones watching or planning. They are humans with the same rights of living on this planet as everyone else.<br><br>Funny how an invisible barrier set between masses of land called "countries" can make a person worth more or less, better or worse, or labelled under different names of hate or love.<br><br>_________________________________________<br>Just a different kinda geek...
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/03/06 01:46 PM

of course they're not human<br>didn'tcha see rigger's rant?<br>...they're now "Hezbos"! <br><br>incase anyone missed the sarcasm:<br>thus has it always been;<br>the first step of not caring is <br>to de-humanize the other side.<br><br>It's easier to kill an object than<br>to murder a fellow human being.<br><br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Celandine on 08/03/06 04:51 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Who did what to whom? - 08/03/06 01:56 PM

<center><br><br>Us & Them<br><br> Us and them<br>And after all we're only ordinary men<br>Me and you<br>God only knows<br>It's not what we would choose to do<br>Forward he cried from the rear<br>And the front rank died<br>And the general sat<br>And the lines on the map<br>Moved from side to side<br>Black and blue<br>And who knows which is which and who is who<br>Up and down<br>And in the end it's only round 'n round<br>Haven't you heard it's a battle of words<br>The poster bearer cried<br>Listen son, said the man with the gun<br>There's room for you inside<br><br>"I mean, they're not gonna kill ya, so if you give 'em a quick short, sharp, shock, they won't do it again. Dig it? I mean he get off lightly, 'cause I would've given him a thrashing - I only hit him once! It was only a difference of opinion, but really...I mean good manners don't cost nothing do they, eh?"<br><br>Down and out<br>It can't be helped that there's a lot of it about<br>With, without<br>And who'll deny it's what the fighting's all about?<br>Out of the way<br>It's a busy day<br>I've got things on my mind<br>For the want of the price<br>Of tea and a slice<br>The old man died<br></center><br><br>