"I take responsibility"

Posted by: garyW

"I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 12:30 PM

It took Hell and high water link. Perhaps, this is what happens when Karl is not around to call the shots (he's pushing a kidney stone at the moment), or maybe a more sensitive Karen Hughes has changed the game plan in his absence. Or maybe David Gregory's persistent press briefing "Where's the accountability?" got to be a problem. <br><br>Regardless, I'm glad to hear exactly where the proverbial buck may actually stop.<br><br>Sen. Kerry agrees: "The President has done the obvious, only after it was clear he couldn’t get away with the inexcusable."<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 12:52 PM

Good to see him fess up. We can only hope it's sincere. Unfortunately, it doesn't undo the damage. From here on out, it's show us what you can do above what you can say.<br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 01:12 PM

See? Was that so bad?<br><br>It's good to see Bush finally take responsibility for something. Dare I say it shows some actual growth in his character and while we have yet to see the solutions put forth by both Republicans and Democrats, at least now we know that the Bush Administration (including the important dude at the head of it) knows that the entire system is suspect.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: Pete

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 01:26 PM

Yeah, but what I wanna know is did he pronounce 'responsibility' correctly?<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 01:47 PM

In addition to today's news of Bush "taking responsibility' for the flawed Federal Katrina response, there is this story which may explain the timing of the President's announcement. It was just yesterday that the President was again praising FEMA's initial efforts while certain media put the reponsibility squarely on the Governor.<br><br><br><br>(Text from Rawstory.com: 9/13/05)<br><br><br>Nonpartisan congressional research report finds Louisiana governor took necessary steps<br>John Byrne<br><br>The Congressional Research Service (CRS) issued a report Tuesday afternoon asserting that Louisiana governor Katherine Blanco took the necessary and timely steps needed to secure disaster relief from the federal government, RAW STORY has learned.<br><br>The report, which comes after a request by Rep. John Conyers (D-MI) to review the law and legal accountability relating to Federal action in response to Hurricane Katrina, unequivocally concludes that she did.<br><br>"This report closes the book on the Bush Administration's attempts to evade accountability," Conyers said in a statement. "The Bush Administration was caught napping at a critical time."<br><br><br>The report found that:<br><br>All necessary conditions for federal relief were met on August 28. Pursuant to Section 502 of the Stafford Act, "[t]he declaration of an emergency by the President makes Federal emergency assistance available," and the President made such a declaration on August 28. The public record indicates that several additional days passed before such assistance was actually made available to the State;<br><br>The Governor must make a timely request for such assistance, which meets the requirements of federal law. The report states that "[e]xcept to the extent that an emergency involves primarily Federal interests, both declarations of major disaster and declarations of emergency must be triggered by a request to the President from the Governor of the affected state";<br><br>The Governor did indeed make such a request, which was both timely and in compliance with federal law. The report finds that "Governor Kathleen Babineaux Blanco requested by letter dated August 27, 2005...that the President declare an emergency for the State of Louisiana due to Hurricane Katrina for the time period from August 26, 2005 and continuing pursuant to [applicable Federal statute]" and "Governor Blanco's August 27,2005 request for an emergency declaration also included her determination...that 'the incident is of such severity and magnitude that effective response is beyond the capabilities of the State and affected local governments and that supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives, protect property, public health, and safety, or to lessen or avert the threat of disaster."<br><br>The full report will be available soon on the House Democrats' Judiciary website.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 01:55 PM

Interesting. I'm sure it's gonna take quite a while for all the pieces of this puzzle to be put together. And I'm also sure that we'll see good steps and mis-steps across the board. But for now, better to get the stricken areas and people back on their feet. Then turn the hounds loose.<br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 02:03 PM

Yeah, it seems the rush to determine accountability is a lot more driven than the initial response to the disaster itself. It's easy to imagine though; those that smell blood want to take action while everyone's still up in arms about all this.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 02:11 PM

Bush is in Manhattan today for the U.N. I'm but a 20-minute walk from there. I emailed Bush this AM and asked him to stop by and help me fix a running toilet. No response yet. Some things never change. <br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 02:16 PM

I think its very important that this get resolved now, specially since we have one hurricane off the Carolina coast and others sure to follow, a quake waiting to happen on the leftcoast, and the unknown but very likely terrorist attack that FEMA will need to respond to.<br><br>If FEMA was delayed and deployment of NG resources stalled because of bureaucratic red tape and political power struggles, we owe it to ourselves to fix it asap.<br><br> <br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 02:19 PM

Nagin should have fixed your toilet years ago, but now he's living the highlife in Texas. Didn't you get the memo?<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 02:22 PM

I'm always the last to know...<br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 02:25 PM

He who fights and runs away, lives to fight another day.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: mojo_jojo

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 04:21 PM

And watch his poll numbers go up. I hate to sound jaded since I am usually a Bush supporter, but I have to think this move was PR. Poll numbers suck. "People think I hate everyone that isn't white. I better get down there and do something".<br><br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 04:58 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> See? Was that so bad? <p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah but NewK, it was "hard wurk" !!! <br><br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 05:02 PM

while he's at it- have him do a couple of loads of laundry. <br><br>while you go out for a Starbucks !! <br><br>David (OFI)
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/13/05 06:07 PM

I love it.<br>"Raw Story has leaned" as if this were some sort of super secret document.<br><br>it would be neat if you might actually read the document (posted yesterday on the web).<br><br>The most interesting section may be that the governor is required by law to request specific things. The document enumerates what she requested.<br>A very interesting list to say the least. For the lazy, busses and troops were not on the list.<br><br>Again, this isn't to say things didn't go wrong just that this specific dcoument adds little to that debate.<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Conyer's Congressional release (as stated) - 09/13/05 07:20 PM

The story states the CRS released a report TUESDAY afternoon (not yet posted on their site), how could this be a document you read on the web yesterday? Do you have a link? I do. <br><br>Today's Press release from Conyers, Tuesday Sept 13: (just as the RawStory article indicated)<br><br>http://www.house.gov/judiciary_democrats/releases/katrinacrsreportpr91305.pdf<br><br><br>Not so cynically super secret after all. <br><br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: Conyer's Congressional release (as stated) - 09/13/05 09:14 PM

"cynically super secret "<br><br>Love the alliteration there!<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:16 AM

Can You Say; <br>"SPLITTING HAIRS"?<br>SURE! I KNEW You Would <br><br>IOW<br>when someone is drowning<br>you don't stand around asking questions like:<br><br>"Do You Prefer FOAM, Or KAPOK?"<br><br>...anything OTHER than tossing a damn LIFE Preserver<br>can (...and will) be construed as Callus Indifference.<br><br>::SHEESH!::<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:40 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>It took Hell and high water link. Perhaps, this is what happens when Karl is not around to call the shots (he's pushing a kidney stone at the moment), or maybe a more sensitive Karen Hughes has changed the game plan in his absence. Or maybe David Gregory's persistent press briefing "Where's the accountability?" got to be a problem. <br><br>Regardless, I'm glad to hear exactly where the proverbial buck may actually stop.<br><br>Sen. Kerry agrees: "The President has done the obvious, only after it was clear he couldn’t get away with the inexcusable."<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>First of all THAT Is KARL ROVE:<br>His ass is to the plates, ...he was in a nose-dive!<br>DAMAGE CONTROL: Time to 'Fess Up!<br><br>Secondly: <br>"I take 'Full Responsibility'."<br>is Still a FAR Cry from;<br>"It was MY Fault."<br><br>The former implies more Blame Dispersal and a Magnanimous Gesture.<br>The Latter, admits that YOU FUKKED UP!<br><br>again..... BIG DIFFERENCE<br><br>Thirdly:<br>If y'all don't recognize the name...<br>That's the SAME Senator that Nailed His Ass with 'the DOWNING STREET MEMO'<br><br><br>And FINALLY:<br>I agree with Sen. Kerry<br><br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 03:56 AM

Talk about SPLITTING HAIRS!<br><br>"I take responsibility" not the same as "I fukked up"? PR motivation or not, it's still beats the heck out of total avoidance. And if anything, it's finally an acknowledgment that the buck indeed stops with him.<br><br>It doesn't undo the damage, but I'll take it until all the information is in. But I guess you won't be satisfied 'til he publicly disembowels himself with a rusty fork! And then you'll probably want to shoot the buzzards that snack on his carrion, too.<br><br>We all want to know who screwed up. When, how, and most importantly, why, so it doesn't happen again. Lynching before the indictments are even handed down will solve nothing.<br><br>In case you're wondering, this is an example of why I used that "H" word that you took exception to a few days ago.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 04:14 AM

1) Thats a pretty wide hair, there, Buckeroo!<br>You'd need a LOG-SPLITTER for That one. <br><br>2) I'll even offer to supply the fork.<br><br>3) He needs to just GtFOutta' Dodge<br>before he perpetrates AnyMORE Crimes.<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 04:40 AM

Ok. So he should resign immediately. And leave us with Cheney? Now there's a great option. <br><br>My point is that you are so all-consumed with your hatred of Bush that you are unable/unwilling to accept the reality that -- in the case of Katrina -- others dropped the ball, too. And that's not dispersal of blame. It's recognizing the fact that there are many actors in this tragedy.<br><br>As head of state, he has to bear the overall responsibility -- which includes blame for those areas where he's directly hands-on.<br><br>If you insist on draping all blame on him, you're turning a blind eye on others who are also culpable.<br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 04:49 AM

Yep. I would like to see GW get his come uppance as much as anyone, but laying all or even most of this particular fiasco at his feet (or even his administration's) is too much.<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: polymerase

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:16 AM

This is all political window dressing. I would like him him to admit something which actually might change something. How about, "It was a mistake to invade Iraq. I take responsibility."<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:30 AM

Who's to say he didn't plan Katrina?<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:31 AM

<br>...and THEN GtFOUT! <br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: Conyer's Congressional release (as stated) - 09/14/05 05:44 AM

http://www.opencrs.com/document/M20050912<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:45 AM

Could ya' help me out here;<br><br>I find a certain 'inconsistency' in the fact as you've previously stated; <br>that you don't have a problem trading your civil rights in return for <br>personal security, yet you continue to support the very person putting <br>your life (and security) at risk while displaying the kind of callous indifference <br>that we've witnessed during the first 5 days following a federal emergency <br>that could have occured anywhere in this country?<br><br>To quote some news reporter(?) or another;<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>If you wanna be a republican, fine. <br>You wanna vote republican, because you're a conservative? Fine- <br><br>But you have to stop viewing politics, and the fate of our nation, <br>as if it were pro football!<br><br>I have to ask all republicans, here, and now: <br>Rats have the brains to leave a sinking ship- <br>why can't you muster the same mental fortitude?<br><br>Stand with the rest of America, and demand accountability <br>from the people whom you rallied around, for so long- <br>they owe you, at the very least, that much...<p><hr></blockquote><p><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But I guess you won't be satisfied 'til he publicly disembowels himself with a rusty fork!<p><hr></blockquote><p>I'll even offer to supply the flatware.<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Ok. So he should resign immediately. And leave us with Cheney? Now there's a great option.<p><hr></blockquote><p>DICK Cheney Can Go FORK HIMSELF as Well! <br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 06:11 AM

Thanks for demonstrating that you've distorted your own reality field, and that you are so distracted by your emotions that you are not paying attention to what anyone else says.<br><br>Please show me where I have "supported" Bush or his administration in the past year. Please provide links -- even one will do -- to statements I've made in "support" of Bush. Please prove to me and anyone else reading these threads that I'm pleased with what the Bush Admin has done to this country.<br><br>Only, please spare me the "eroded civil rights" line. The world has changed. The U.S. has lost it's claim to "NIMBY", and some small sacrifices have to be made now and then. Parts of the Patriot Act are objectionable on a before and after basis. But on balance, I'd still rather live here than any place else in the world.<br><br>So then... got links? Or can you accept the fact that it's possible to be anti-Bush without imploding from pesonal hatred.<br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 06:16 AM

Am I gonna have to separate you two?! <br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 06:17 AM

this one will do (thanx)<br>as you're still doing so by <br>assisting in the blame dispersal<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 06:40 AM

I can see I'm shoveling sand against the tide. Never mind then. <br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: Conyer's Congressional release (as stated) - 09/14/05 08:45 AM

Let me get this straight about your link.<br><br>The document is a fax summary from the Judiciary lawyers to Conyers office with conclusions from the Congressional request. It is an internal memo posted by Conyers late Monday after the information was concluded that day. <br><br>The fax is dated and time-stamped Sept-12-2005 22:15 <br><br>Rawstory writes the article in the morning that the Results will be made available., and indicated what was found in that late evening memo.<br>Conyers statement is exactly as the article stated.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 09:31 AM

"The document enumerates what she requested.<br>A very interesting list to say the least. For the lazy, busses and troops were not on the list."<br><br>From the CRS document you linked, the lawyers for the CRS concluded that Governor Blanco requested full evacuation assistance from the Federal government in addition to the activating the state plan. ref: CRS-5<br><br>The Federal government complies with this emergency request for evacuation assistance. The President authorized FEMA and HS to coordinate all disaster relief efforts. ref: CRS-6<br><br><br><br><br>Note: If you want to check Homeland Security's National Response Plan , http://www.dhs.gov/dhspublic/interapp/editorial/editorial_0566.xml, I bet it says something about Federal coordination of National Guard troops and evacuation assistance.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 10:24 AM

No it doesn't.<br><br>Neither CRS-5 or CRS-6 says either of those things. Are you really reading the same document I am?<br><br>The only time the word "evacuating" (or a derivitive thereof) appears on CRS-5 is when the area of disaster is defined. Included in the definition is the parishes "accepting the thousands of citizens evacuating from the areas expected to be flooded..."<br>The second and thrid time is this sentence:<br>"A State of Emergency (my note: this refers to the governor's issued state of emergency, not the federal declaration of emergency) has been issued for the State in order to support the evacuation of the costal area in accordance with our state evacuation plan..." <br><br>And again of CRS-6 the word evacuation is only mentioned when defining the disaster area as in (paraphrasing) "the disaster area includes parishes excepting the evacuees".<br><br>It is true it says FEMA can coordinate all disaster relief efforts but that doesn't mean they are required to or must take over the efforts. A big difference.<br><br>Seriously I don't see anywhere in that document where it says "Governor Blanco requested full evacuation assistance from the Federal government in addition to the activating the state plan. ref".<br><br>Again I'm not saying things didn't go wrong or slow but this document doesn't further that debate.<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 10:43 AM

CRS-5<br>Clearly states Emergency assistance requested for New Orleans.<br><br>Blanco's emergency request also included..."and supplementary Federal assistance is necessary to save lives...""..specifically requested Federal assistance.." <br><br>CRS-6<br>The President authorized FEMA to coordinate...<br><br>I don't get it, the nonpartisan judiciary lawyers find that Blanco did things right in her requests for Federal assistance, and you still say she f*cked up. The question is whether Blanco did what was required of her, and the legal answer is yes. Fox and Mehlman and Rush can go on blaming Blanco regardless of this proof. I don't expect anything could be to be presented that may make you change your opinion.<br><br><br>FEMA screwed up. Blanco did what she was required to do, The President said the federal response was in adequate. Yesterday the president took responsibility for the Fed's failure to adequately respond. The Congressional Judiciary committee says Blanco did things right. <br><br><br>Is Blanco to blame for delayed FEMA response in Mississippi too?<br><br>to be continued.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 11:00 AM

<br><br>
Posted by: bird

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 11:25 AM

<center><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Am I gonna have to separate you two?!<p><hr></blockquote><p></center><br>He says potato and she say potaeto,<br>she likes tomato and He likes tomaeto;<br>Potato, potaeto, tomato, tomaeto!<br><br>He says either and She says eyether,<br>He says neither and she says nyther;<br>Either, eyether, neether, nyther,<br>Lol they will be fine, they may be riding different trains but both are heading in the same direction. <br><br>
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 12:04 PM

This document enumerates very specific things that were requested.<br>You seem to be under the impession that the way this whole thing works is that there is a general request for help and then FEMA just sends everything they got.<br><br>For good or bad that is not how it works and I think many are under that impession. The local goverment makes requests of the state and then the state makes requests of FEMA or other federal agencies. The delcarations of emergency on the federal and state level just legally releases these resources but doesn't give FEMA carte blanc to just start sending busses to the Superdome or troops into downtown New Orleans these things must be requested or alternatly the state signs a document saying basically "We give up, you do everything". Then FEMA takes over completely and no longer needs requests from the state. Otherwise FEMA is there to support the state effort.<br><br>Also I didn't say she screwed up the request. The request was fine but it wasn't for troops and busses. At least not the requests detailed in this document.<br><br>Saying "The Congressional Judiciary committee says Blanco did things right." is a most simplistic analysis of this complex issue.<br>Because all it really says is that the normal boilerplate requests the states make of the federal government in anticipation of a disaster were in order. No one really has disputed that fact.<br>The ongoing debate is how things were handled after the the hurricane had passed. And this document does not address the assistance that was needed for AFTER the storm haad passed.<br><br>Also the FEMA response was delayed in comparison to what, your personal feelings on how fast it should have been?<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 12:07 PM

It's just a matter of degree & direction.<br><br>I'm just not so ready to let the worm off'n the hook that easy.<br>This isn't 'Sesame Street', or 'Mr. Rogers' Neiborhood' where<br>Georgie sez "I Sohwee" and we makes like it never happened.<br><br>This is a grown up world, and people are really dead!<br>His half hearted/half assed pseudo-apology is unacceptable!<br><br>And ...must I remind you, (again) that I'm not just talking about<br>the bloated corpses STILL bobbing in the deep south;<br>I'm talking about getting lied to, and dragged into an illegal war<br>that has set us at odds with friend & foe alike. I'm still talking<br>about and the people left rotting in prisons Without DUE PROCESS<br>"rendered out" to countries where anything goes to die horrendous <br>deaths, at the hands of sadists trained by our so-called-friends.<br><br>I'm talking about millions of Americans living "on the edge",<br>without access to affordable prescription drugs or medical coverage, <br>...one major illness away from having their life snuffed out, and<br>having every thing they've ever worked for snatched away from <br>them, ...with no "safety net" to catch them WHEN they fall.<br><br>The threat of Home Heating Fuel rising by 31%-73% come Winter.<br>Mercenary Troops called in, and more being trained on American soil.<br><br>This whole administration hasn't just been "Just ONE Screw-Up" <br>~ IT'S BEEN ONE LONG UN-WAKING NEVER-ENDING NIGHTMARE ~ <br><br>...and it has to come to an end. ...It HAS To.<br><br>Hysteria? <br>What can I say, besides... <br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: garyW

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 12:40 PM

'...the states make of the federal government in anticipation of a disaster were in order. No one really has disputed that fact.'<br><br>you must be joking <br><br><br>"... your personal feelings on how fast it should have been?<br><br>Yes, as well as the President's statements that the response was inadequate. As well as the media covering the story. As well as every person I've talked with who witnessed the events on live TV. When you have hard right pundits like Joe Scarborough asking for 6 days in Biloxi "Where's FEMA?", or for days watching people dehydrate and suffer in New Orleans and the Mayor and Senators and Governors asking "Where's FEMA?" when they were told relief was coming. When I stayed up late at night listening to New Orleans talk radio and hearing from the people there what was not happening to help them, and yet the Mayor made an official announcement of S.O.S. because aid was not arriving... Yes, all that effects my personal feelings on how fast the response could have been for a known emergency in which the President said he took "extraordinary" steps to prepare for ahead of the storm. <br><br><br>"a general request for help and then FEMA just sends everything they got."<br>When authority is given to FEMA to coordinate the response, yes, I believe it is up to them.<br><br>
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 01:20 PM

I'm not joking. No one has said that the state requests of the federal governenment before the storm made landfall were not in order. The requests were in order. All the proper paper was filled out and filed.<br>Some may argue that there should have been more requests made before the storm made landfall but that is a different point.<br><br>Hard to make the request for busses to evacuate people from the Superdome on the Saturday before landfall.<br><br>As to the second point. I see, now. All you need is enough people to claim something is true in order for it to become true.<br><br>Again you have bought into the MSM meme that all this (feeding and hydrating people at the Superdome) was FEMA's responsibilty. Do you know this for a fact, a real legal fact?<br>One real fact is that the state of Louisana turned the Red Cross away from the Superdome, not FEMA. These people could have been fed and hydrated far earlier had the governor requested the proper number of troops to police NO, the superdome and the convention center.<br>What gave Scarborough the expectation that FEMA should be there within 6 days? Previous experience with a FEMA response?<br>Again, FEMA supports the states efforts unless the state gives up its rights. If the state doesn't sign off its rights and also has no effort itself to coordinate with then response will lag.<br><br>You seem to think I'm saying FEMA is blameless. I'm not, I'm just saying the stuff currently being blamed on FEMA is, as of yet, without any real foundation. Over the next couple of months we'll find out how FEMA could have responded faster.<br><br>Actually this is probably going to backfire against people again.<br>Bush is going to say, "Yes, I'm responsible and I will fix this." Then institute a sort of "Disaster Patriot Act" where by when a disaster is immenant then the Feds will just come in and take over the state, walking all over states rights.<br>Be careful what you wish for.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 01:30 PM

By "degree" you mean "decibels", yes?<br><br>What you won't slow down long enough to see is that it's all coming home to roost now. Between the recent revelations about the war in Iraq and the Katrina meltdown, the truth is starting to dog him like Pinocchio's nose. Just look at his approval rating. El Tank-O! And his new-found contrition -- act or fact -- is most certainly too little too late.<br><br>Between screaming rabidly at the neocons, and sticking your fingers in your ears and making lalalalalalalala sounds when you don't like what you hear, you're missing the wheels come off all by themselves.<br><br>I'm not promoting complacency, nor am I dismissing the global mess he's made. But I am suggesting that now is the time for reason. Now is the time to say, "See? I told you there was a problem." without getting in everyone's face. Now is the time to bolster credibility and not frighten the emerging converts away with such [here's that word again] hysterics.<br><br>What I'm trying to say in a nice way is that now you can<br>SITDOWNandSHUTUPsoWECANWATCHtheENDoftheSHOW!!!<br><br>*whew!*<br><br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:34 PM

<br><br>OK. Passes you the pop-corn.<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:35 PM

"Just look at his approval rating."<br><br>The sad thing is it took a disaster largely out of his control at home for his approval rating to take such a dive (as opposed to the slow erosion of before).<br><br>Yes, maybe people are thinking, "here we are trying to fix Iraq's wagon, when we have our own serious problems," and that contributed to the large drop, but at this point I am not sure if I can even give the average American credit for that much attention span. Baghdad and New Orleans are just too big for most people to bother thinking about at the same time.<br><br>Or maybe I don't give people enough credit...<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:47 PM

But seriously;<br><br>With the refusal to ratify the Kyoto Accord,<br>John (the Bully in the china-shop) Bolton representing us in the UN (as we speak)<br>With an avowed Bush-Bot being thrust into A Life-Time Position as CHIEF JUSTICE <br>of the Highest Court i the Land.<br>...and TWO Wars Boiling Over, while DARING several MORE Countries to get Involved<br>by threatening to Nuke them Preemptively when ever he gets around to trumping<br>up the charges against them...<br><br>I've yet to see where you're suggesting that there's enough breathing room<br>to just kick-back and "enjoy the show".<br><br>Ooops, ...there's that "C" word again.<br><br><br> <br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:47 PM

Wha...? There was a hurricane in Bahgdad? <br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:52 PM

<br><br>No, ...But Ms. Bird's getting slammed again... <br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:52 PM

Breathing room? Did I not say we can't become complacent? You're still doing that lalalalalalala thing. And hyperventilating, too (speaking of breathing)!<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:53 PM

That so Bird? I thought you were out of the zone this time.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:54 PM

<br>Ooops... I knowed I see'd that word somewhere before... <br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 02:57 PM

<br>maybe...<br>I've got so many friends & relatives in the Carolinas <br>that it's hard for me to remember which one lives where. <br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 03:01 PM

Well, the *cough* good news is that it's not that powerful yet. Still cat 1, I think. But's a slow mover and promises to be a major rain-maker. 11-ft storm surge expected.<br><br>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 03:08 PM

in response to the summary of Bush's administration:<br><br>Yes, that is all true, but the large portion of people will not respond to such a list or Bush would have never been re-elected in the first place. The more points you sling together in one place, the more people who have some respect for Bush and his office will just assume you are piling all this on because you hate Bush from the get-go as opposed to hating him for the reasons you state.<br><br>Yes, years (hopefully months) later, maybe you can feel exonerated when the wheels finally do come off, and you'll have your standing record here and wherever else you are trying to make a difference. But meanwhile, you are not winning any hearts and minds with anger and diatribe. Believe me, I constantly feel like letting off a huge diatribe against Bush et al., and I don't think I could put it all as succintly as you do, but if that is just going to cause people to discount me, what's the point?<br><br>And yes, Steve keeps himself on the fence more than most people who post here (and being on the fence with such dynamic issues can inadvertantly make one appear inconsistent at times), but he defends that position well, and it would certainly be less interesting if he were just another player firmly to the left or right, firmly hating or loving Mr. Bush.<br><br>Sorry if my two cents is out of place..<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: bird

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 03:22 PM

Yes... I'm fine. Far from the coast but as we all know nothing is a given. It is nice to see that we have some popcorn out and are having a fairly nice time. Ah, The New York connection and the New Jersey connection ,Youse guys make me <br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 03:35 PM

Well there ya go.You just got straight to the point I've been trying to make: Couching issues that affect many in personal terms can discredit the bigger importance of those issues.<br><br>Why couldn't I have said it that way in the first place? <br><br>*smacks self on forehead*<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 03:37 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>New Jersey connection<p><hr></blockquote><p>Youbetcha! Gots to have that third-world representation, y'know. <br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:28 PM

<br>NJ is not as "out in the sticks" as you'd think.<br><br>I live just across the Hudson, in a cluster of big cities,<br>Right outside of Newark where I attended Art School<br>and just west of Jersey City and Elizabeth (also large).<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:51 PM

Still a matter of direction & degree.<br><br>I don't care for people that take the <br>safe way out "The Fence Strattlers"<br><br>[color:white]. . . . .</font color=white><br><br>because it's easy to point and say; <br>"See? I was right all along!" when you<br>never take a stand in the first place.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 05:56 PM

I know from Joizy. I have a client in Englewood Cliffs, friends and colegues in Hoboken and Jersey City. Family in Bridgeton. And I graduated from Cherry Hill HS in 196... well, a few years ago. <br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 06:06 PM

And I know NuYawk<br><br>I managed a Disco there during the late 60's<br>and also lived everywhere from Harlem, to Soho.<br>I used to live 2 doors down from The Electric Circus<br>on St.Marks Place. and also did a stint in the Bowery<br>living in "The Diggers FreeStore" between Abbie Hoffman<br>upstairs and The EastSide Aliens downstairs.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 06:10 PM

You can call it fence sitting. I think of it as recognizing that the world isn't just black and white. Every issue has 2 sides, and it's not a given that one side is wrong and the other right. Good people sometimes do bad things, and bad people can even do good things once in a while. It's called being open-minded. It's called being willing to evaluate a situation and form an opinion without polarization. It allows me to take varied but considered positions on different issues. And more important than saying "I was right...", it allows me to say "Maybe I was wrong."<br><br>Best of all, up on that fence, you get a little better view.<br><br><br>BA-A-A-A-A-A-A-A-A...<br><br>
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/14/05 09:06 PM

Bridgeton, NJ. I lived in Millville and we played Bridgeton in Football. It is just up the road a piece from where I lived on Cedar Street.<br><br><br><br>KateMate
Posted by: JonnyCat

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/15/05 12:11 AM

HAHAHAHAHAHAH<br><br>It must drive you nuts, that despite all the bolded letters and capitilization, you still can't form a compelling opinion.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/15/05 12:16 AM

I'm incredibly open minded<br>...but not about this.<br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: lanovami

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/15/05 12:48 AM

Incredibly? So much that you don't believe it yourself?<br><br>We are what we repeatedly do. -Aristotle
Posted by: steveg

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/15/05 03:38 AM

Well thanks for clearing that up...<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: "I take responsibility" - 09/15/05 04:03 AM

<center><br><br><br> ...anytime... <br><br><br></center><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>