I don't care

Posted by: skuldugary

I don't care - 08/05/05 10:24 AM

First, Newsweek pulled a Dan Rather on us, running a fabricated story, just because they wanted it to be true. They told the world that an American guard at the Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, detention center had ripped pages from a prisoner's Koran and flushed it down a toilet. As a result, innocent people died when practitioners of Islam rioted in protest in Afghanistan.<br><br>Oops, said Newsweek, it seems we can't back up our story. Oh well, it's probably true; we just can't prove it. (Isn't it convenient for Newsweek that the media now have "Deep Throat" to talk about so they can revel in their glory days and divert our attention from their criminal negligence.)<br> <br>The lie heard round the world about the flushed Koran has caused convulsions in the Bush Administration and forced the Pentagon to launch an investigation of unfounded allegations contained in an unsubstantiated story. The results of said investigation are now in, and it seems there are at least five incidents of "mishandling" of the Koran at Gitmo. <br><br>Well, guess what? I don't care!<br> <br>Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?<br><br>Were people from all over the world, mostly Americans, not brutally murdered that day, in downtown Manhattan, across the Potomac from our nation's capitol. And in a field in Pennsylvania? Did nearly three thousand men, women and children die a horrible, burning death that day, or didn't they? And I'm supposed to care that a copy of the Koran was "desecrated" when an overworked American soldier kicked it or got it wet? <br><br>Well, I don't. I don't care at all.<br>I'll start caring when Osama bin Laden turns himself in and repents for incinerating all those innocent people on 9/11.<br><br>I'll care about the Koran when the fanatics in the Middle East start caring about the Holy Bible, the mere possession of which is a crime in Saudi Arabia.<br> <br>I'll care when Abu Musab al-Zarqawi tells the world he is sorry for hacking off Nick Berg's head while Berg screamed through his gurgling, slashed throat.<br> <br>I'll care when the cowardly so-called "insurgents" in Iraq come out and fight like men instead of disrespecting their own religion by hiding in mosques.<br> <br>I'll care when the mindless zealots who blow themselves up in search of nirvana care about the innocent children within range of their suicide bombs.<br> <br>I'll care when the American media stops pretending that their First Amendment liberties are somehow derived from international law instead of the United States Constitution's Bill of Rights. <br><br>I'll care when Clinton-appointed judges stop ordering my government to release photos of the abuses at Abu Ghraib, which are sure to set off the Islamic extremists just as Newsweek's lies did.<br><br>In the meantime, when I hear a story about a brave marine roughing up an Iraqi terrorist to obtain information, know this: I don't care.<br> <br>When I see a fuzzy photo of a pile of naked Iraqi prisoners who have been humiliated in what amounts to a college hazing incident, rest assured that I don't care.<br> <br>When I see a wounded terrorist get shot in the head when he is told not to move because he might be booby-trapped, you can take it to the bank that I don't care.<br> <br>When I hear that a prisoner, who was issued a Koran paid for by my tax dollars, is complaining that his holy book is being "mishandled," you can absolutely believe in your heart of hearts that I don't care.<br><br>And oh, by the way, I've noticed that sometimes it's spelled "Koran" and other times "Quran." <br><br>Well, Jimmy Crack Coran and -- you guessed it I DON'T CARE!!!<br><br><br><br>I care about those two people. I care about not letting that happen again. Ever. If you do anything to get in the way of stopping terror, you're as good as pushing those people out the window. Yeah, it's a raw statement, but I won't forget 9-11. I won't let the memory dim. I won't let those 3000 deaths become just another part of history. <br>That's why I support our country, our troops, and our President. Because without those last two, we won't have a country.<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:33 AM

i had to laugh at your jimmy crack comment. <br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I care about those two people. I care about not letting that happen again. Ever. If you do anything to get in the way of stopping terror, you're as good as pushing those people out the window.<p><hr></blockquote><p>i am curious to learn why you think the terrorists attacked us and continue to hate us. care to share you thoughts on this?<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:40 AM

Again, skul, I share your sentiments in raw form. But here's my problem:<br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Are we fighting a war on terror or aren't we? Was it or was it not started by Islamic people who brought it to our shores on September 11, 2001?<p><hr></blockquote><p>The original war on terror was launched in Afghanistan, and we hear very little about that battlefield these days. But we hear about Iraq 10 times a day, and Iraq has little or nothing to do with the original mission.<br><br>Not that terrorism isn't burning out of control in Iraq now, but we can't afford to blur the lines as much as the Admin has attempted to do. I do support our troops in Iraq, and I am sickened by the bloodlust of the insurgency. But the war on terror is supposed to be about Bin Ladin & Co. , and that seems to have taken a back seat.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:44 AM

Ohferchrisakes... Its's all our fault. We're the Devil and we made them do it.<br><br>There. That oughta cover it. *rolls eyes*<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:59 AM

i'll let me signature do the talking here.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 11:04 AM

Somebody should. <br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 11:11 AM

I don't think it's right to throw anyone under that idiotic stereotype. Half of what partisan commentators do is try to convince their choir that the other side is blaming them/America for whatever. It's just so tiresome.<br><br>We all better believe that America's foreign policy is a source (not necessarily a justification, but a source) of terrorism since many of the people entering Iraq and participating in the mayhem there have never been involved in terrorism previously. So now we have a nice little terrorist factory over there turning them out by the boatload. Now we have to really worry if they connect with some kind of revenue source like Osama bin Laden had.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 11:34 AM

Y'know, I agree that it's wearing thin -- but only as far as the war in Iraq is concerned. I'd have to be totally sensory-deprived not to see that our actions there (or at least the BS that brought us there) have fanned the flames of Islamic extremism.<br><br>But this innuendo that we had 9/11 coming to us is also tired. Tired and a poor excuse for extremist apologists. As wrong-headed as our foreign policy may have been, you will never convince me that it justified those attacks.<br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 11:50 AM

That's the nuance. I don't think anyone is saying that anything justified those attacks. Excuses, yes. Reasons, yes. But a justification assumes that those who orchestrated the attacks were seeking justice. To accept that would be to accept that killing regular people is right under any circumstance.<br><br>I don't think you will find disagreement but in the most warped schools of fundamentalist thought where justifications for horrible acts are manufactured from absolutist philosophies. So, so long as you can avoid those kinds of people, you'll find yourself in sympathetic company.<br><br>I think when we talk about terrorism, we need to be as pragmatic as possible. I don't take comfort in the alleged abuses of Muslims at Guantanamo Bay or Abu Ghraib for two reasons. They don't reflect the freedom of religion that makes the United States great and more importantly to some, they don't accomplish anything. I'd really hate to meet someone who thinks that is what's getting the job done against terror. We're America. We're supposed to be that much better.<br><br>We can be mad and want revenge on our own. But as a country, we need to seek justice above all.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:09 PM

"America's foreign policy is a source"<br><br>Then why are the terrorists killing Japanese, French, etc, etc? It's time to stop beating the horse named America and see the bigger picture.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:11 PM

Absolutely we're supposed to be above what we decry in our enemies. By the same token, you sometimes have to resort to more extreme and/or distasteful measures to accomplish an important goal.<br><br>Now, allow me poke holes in my own statement. I see these alleged abuses as the product of frustration. Not so much on the part of the individuals accused, but of the Admin. And I see that frustration as the result of the failure (thus far) to catch Bin Ladin. We can't nail the big dog, so let's kick the little ones instead.<br><br>Had Bin Ladin been captured or dead by now, would these other events have occurred? Would we have ever invaded Iraq? And if so, what rationale would the WH have offered?<br><br>Fact is, we are seeking justice. But like Marc Almond wrote, "... in all the wrong places."<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:19 PM

uh, they hate them because of their freedoms? <br><br>all kidding aside, i think a little research would reveal much. why do you think japan and france have been attacked (and, i can't remember the specifics of either country being attacked by terrorists, though it's possible). i think a little research might reveal that each of those countries being attacked has, as a source -- not necessarily the only source, their foreign policies.<br><br>for example, i did a quick google search using 'terrorism japan' as my search terms and found this right near the top from the japanese government's website: Campaign against Terrorism - Japan's Measures.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>1. Diplomatic Efforts to Strengthen International Solidarity<br>Diplomatic efforts have been stepped up to strengthen international solidarity towards the prevention and eradication of terrorism, through such means as the dispatch of special envoys, and official letters from the Prime Minister, as well as bilateral, multilateral meetings and telephone talks.<br><br>2. Anti-Terrorism Special Measures Law<br>Based on the Anti-Terrorism Special Measures Law, which was passed by the Diet on 29 October, Self-Defense Force (SDF) vessels are providing supply of fuel to U.S. and U.K. ships, and SDF aircraft are implementing transportation support as cooperation and support activities.<p><hr></blockquote><p>the article details 4 more points on how japan is fighting against the terrorists. my guess is that these efforts are going to cause a reaction from the enemies they are fighting. <br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: newkojak

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:21 PM

I'm sorry if I'm a bit self-centered by nature. I mention America foremost because I am a citizen and thus share responsibility for our actions. The whole west is really in the driver seat here and together we don't need to find out how to placate terrorists, but we do need to all work together to find out how get those bystander countries like Turkey and Jordan to help solve this problem. That's what I think is the bigger picture.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: newkojak

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:23 PM

If I look like I'm in pains to agree with you it's because you're absolutely right and I'm really sick of fighting with other Americans. <br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:25 PM

Then become a Jew. We're really good at fighting amongst ourselves! <br><br>
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 12:48 PM

"i am curious to learn why you think the terrorists attacked us and continue to hate us."<br><br>Because we are not an islamic nation. Because we promote freedom of choice around the world and freedom of choice is the LAST THING the islamists want.<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 01:05 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Because we are not an islamic nation<p><hr></blockquote><p>saudi arabia has also been attacked. <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Because we promote freedom of choice around the world<p><hr></blockquote><p>so, to take this full circle back to skul's post:<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I care about those two people. I care about not letting that happen again. Ever. If you do anything to get in the way of stopping terror, you're as good as pushing those people out the window.<p><hr></blockquote><p>can this be reconciled without implicating our foreign policy as at least a partial cause?<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: AfterTenSoftware

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 01:26 PM

I know, our foreign policy is to blame. A policy of promoting self-rule and freedom. Also our policies of protecting our self-rule and freedom.<br><br>Any why was Saudi Arabia attacked?<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 01:45 PM

i think all countries should have democracies in place. i don't like seeing american lives (nearly 1,800 in iraq alone) being used to help other countries reach self-rule. there are a heck of a lot of countries in the world that don't have self rule (e.g., china is over 1 billion people under something besides self-rule), so i'd hate to think of the cost of trying to change the whole world.<br><br>i tend to agree with former U.S. Senator Warren Rudman (R-N.H.), he chaired the President's Foreign Intelligence Advisory Board from 1997 to 2000, and co-chaired a bipartisan commission on national security that issued its findings January 2001. he said (and, i included the question):<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The question is: Is there something about our policies that have been politically untouchable? We need oil; we need to back Israel. It's hard to raise these issues, because people want low gasoline prices, or people want absolutely support for whatever government is in Israel.<br><br>Answer: Are you telling me there are people who disagree totally with our foreign policy? You bet there are. You bet there are. And is it a potential contributor to this problem? You bet it is.<p><hr></blockquote><p>link to frontline (pbs) here<br><br>waleed might better be able to answer why saudi arabia was attacked, but i think it's largely because the ruling family of the house of saud has been an ally of the US in the war on terror (reluctantly, but they were one none-the-less). i think saudi arabia was (perhaps is) on the verge of a civil war given that they have a big portion of the population actually more conservative than the ruling family. i don't know much more than that, though.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: newkojak

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 02:02 PM

I wish that was true, but if you look at the kind of regimes we propped up as lately as the 1980s, you can see we don't have a very good track record of "promoting freedom".<br><br>Iraq<br>Chile<br>Nicaragua<br>Iran<br>Afghanistan<br>Venezuela<br>etc...<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 02:44 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>waleed might better be able to answer why saudi arabia was attacked, but i think it's largely because the ruling family of the house of saud has been an ally of the US in the war on terror<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Waleed could certainly answer better, but I believe Saudi Arabia is also not the type of ruling state the extremists want?<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 03:38 PM

i alluded to that in the next sentence, i believe.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 03:47 PM

Not that I agree at all with this rant, but it's a powerful statement for sure.<br><br>I read your post with a sense of deja vu, because about a month ago there were portions the exact same text in a "letter to the editor" in my local paper. That person signed their name to it. Just a few weeks ago, another signed letter to the editor also lifted some of this exact text.<br><br>Credit where credit is due (thank you google):<br>"Ask me if I care about 'mishandling' of Koran"<br>By Doug Patton <br>Published: Jun 6 by GOPUSA<br><br>I think I'll drop my newspaper a line and let them know. Because when I read it all here again, those signed letters now start sounding like a propaganda effort.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: bood

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 04:19 PM

When someone else, Soviets, with a different set of principles from ours, set out to establish their system in the world, we objected. Why should others not object when we--and by we I mean the freedom loving peoples of the world--try to do the same thing?<br><br>I'm not making biblically-derived democratic individualism equivalent to marxism, but I am wondering why we should be surprised that there's resistance to our system, based as it is on three or so thousand years worth of very specific cultural evolution, from people who have a very different tradition and a very different sense of the relationship between self and the state and the cosmos. AFAIK, Islam translates as "submission," not "freedom." "Freedom" sounds terrific to my ears. I don't have a hard time imagining that it sounds terrifying to other ears. Hell, I don't have to imagine an Islamic response, just what my very fundamentalist Christian next door neighbors would, indeed do say regularly about freedom.<br><br>I'll be very very interested to see how our (again, not just the US) governments respond when the new Iraqi constitution makes the nation an Islamic state, with Islamic law as the fundamental underpinning of its polity.<br><br>None of this is an excuse for terrorism, by the way, although I'm sure it'll be understood that way by some readers. A sense of world history also does not constitute an excuse for terrorism, although it's usually reduced to that stereotype too. Still, I find it fascinating that when Pres. Bush spoke of the wars we're fighting as "crusades," the reaction in the Islamic world issued from an understanding of history that we seem either to lack or to forget or to repress. The same thing happens in the Islamic world. Last night on the Lehrer news hour there was a fascinating discussion among four Islamic scholars and religious types, one of whom made the astonishing claim that Islam spread peacefully throughout Asia. By that same set of criteria, European-American power also spread peacefully. Right.<br><br>Another point, again not an excuse for terrorism, but surely misrepresentable that way. The boundaries of a country like Iraq are obviously the product of the post-WW II collapse of European empires. All of those middle eastern countries, along with African countries, are still struggling with borders that make no sense at all, and that were established in lots of cases specifically to benefit the European "parent." Kuwait, for instance.<br><br>One last point. Islam began to spread in the 7th century. Think of what Christianity was like in the 14th century.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 04:52 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I am wondering why we should be surprised that there's resistance to our system, based as it is on three or so thousand years worth of very specific cultural evolution, from people who have a very different tradition and a very different sense of the relationship between self and the state and the cosmos.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Though there are still sharp cultural differences in the world, McCluhan's "Global Village" has evolved yet again, softening the edges between many cultures. Islam and Christianity may still be very different animals, but the exposure of each to the other by the media explosion of the past several decades has presented a much greater opportunity for mutual understanding, and subsequently, less culture shock. That holds at least for the mainstreams of each culture, IMHO. But for the extremists, the rift is still immense. Not because they can't understand other cultures, but because they refuse to do so.<br><br>So it's not surprising that resistance to western culture and religion -- aka non-Islamic -- is present. But not because of ignorance or lack of awareness.<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 05:44 PM

First let me say that I come here to read what people think. Not what people copy and paste and plagiarize from other sources.<br><br> bullshheet revisited multiple times on the net as GaryW pointed out.<br><br>Why do you sit here and debate powerful (to some) statements from skuldugary that are not statements from skuldugaray? Why do you not "out" him as a someone posing as someone else? Someone with half a brain? Because to steal someone else's words he has less then half a brain to plagiarize someone else's work is the lowest of the low.<br><br>Plagiarists pisss me off. Especially when their message is so stupid.<br><br>And Skul, don't give me any bullshiit about how you did not mean your post to be taken as verbatim "skul". You have been doing it all along it just seems that sometimes you get smart for a minute or two.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 05:56 PM

Oopsie! <br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 06:09 PM

&[censored] who should not be listened to ever again", my salutatations to your "oopsie".<br><br><br>pps: calling skul a piece of shiit is breaking the first rule of chatboardomatics but plagiarism just pissses me off so much I never want to here from them again. Mike Barnicle of the Boston Globe is finally off the airwaves around here in Beantown. It took a while.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 06:21 PM

I'm disappointed in skul. But I'll leave it at that. You can interpret my "oopsie" anyway that pleases or displeases you.<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 06:34 PM

Well I was hoping for you to kiss and make up with me after you came to skuls defense a few months ago when I ripped him a new one. <br><br>Blowing a kiss from 1000X will do. Do you know there is a Smith an Wolensky in Boston now? Friggin sacrilege. As if you could do it up here.<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 06:56 PM

Oh good lord! Would you calm the f*sck down already? Christ, you act like someone took a shiit in the middle of your bed. <br><br>Yes, Skul copy-n-pasted-n-didn't-give-credit. Bad move and he shouldn't have done it. <br><br>But you. What the hell?<br><br>OHMYGOD!! OHMYGOD!! OHMYGOD!! SOUND THE ALARM! THE WORLD IS ON FIRE!! DEATH! DESTRUCTION! DOOM-GLOOM!<br><br>Give it a rest, you Jackass. <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 06:57 PM

I accept that political debate on this forum in most cases has content appropriated from news items and commentary that passes through one's own filter. I've pointed out many times where posts of outrage (at the Liberal Media, Democrats, etc.) on this forum are in fact the daily outrage from Newsmax, Powerline or Drudge. I can listen to Rush in the morning and later read here the same outrage verbatim. It's pretty easy to spot when the exact language is used in those arguments. <br><br>But that's the forum. And in the spirit of this thread, I Don't Care. The point of the forum is to provoke some kind of meaningful and worthwhile discussion. Skul's post did exactly that. <br><br>When I see 'Letters to the Editor' do this same thing, that pisses me off because there is no discussion. When I see the same reference source being lifted with different signatures to each, then I become suspicious. How many other newspapers is this this happening to? <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:00 PM

Listen, you get the blindfold . . . PolyPol can bring the smokes . . . I'll scout out a nice brick wall . . . Someone can notify the firing squad.<br><br>There, everyone feel better now?<br><br><br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:00 PM

hmph! i wouldn't have responded in the first place had i known it was just a copy-and-paste. damn!<br><br>and here i thought that jimmy crack line was clever for a thought that just popped into a message boarder's post. not for a pro who gets paid to deliver clever commentary. <br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:09 PM

Kiss and make up?<br><br>Awwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwwww <br><br><br><br><br><br>Nope.<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:11 PM

You don't actually read what I've written, or you're just expecting me to have said something different? <br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:18 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> I accept that political debate on this forum in most cases has content appropriated from news items and commentary that passes through one's own filter. I've pointed out many times where posts of outrage (at the Liberal Media, Democrats, etc.) on this forum are in fact the daily outrage from Newsmax, Powerline or Drudge. I can listen to Rush in the morning and later read here the same outrage verbatim. It's pretty easy to spot when the exact language is used in those arguments. <br><br>But that's the forum. And in the spirit of this thread, I Don't Care. The point of the forum is to provoke some kind of meaningful and worthwhile discussion. Skul's post did exactly that. <br><br>When I see 'Letters to the Editor' do this same thing, that pisses me off because there is no discussion. When I see the same reference source being lifted with different signatures to each, then I become suspicious. How many other newspapers is this this happening to? <p><hr></blockquote><p>I accept the political debate here in this forum as you do but I do it to a point. one can listen to Rush on the radio and hear the same arguments espoused here in this forum a day later. That's OK. And I say "that's OK" not as some friggin' forum police but just as trying to explain what happens. one can listen to an energetic speaker and because they are so persuasive their words become your own. That is how we communicate. <br><br>But when someone verbatim steals someone else's thoughts and work, then someone should call them on it as you did. I have often complained on boards here and there of a copy paste with no acknowledgment of the author. But virtually all of those are delineated by a paragraph or a line or something which says, "these words are not mine". That kind of non credit is irritating but this is different. Skulugary posted this as his own missive as he has done numerous times. When many people posted to his thread he did not mention the mistake. "Uh, I got these brainy statements from elsewhere".<br><br>Not a peep. He posted again. Real short not to give away his brain size. That makes him a steaming piling of donkey shiit<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:23 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>one can listen to Rush on the radio and hear the same arguments espoused here in this forum a day later.<p><hr></blockquote><p>When?<br><br>Where?<br><br>By who?<br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:39 PM

Usually any argument that uses the phrase "seething liberal" will do. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 07:41 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>When?<br><br>Where?<br><br>By who?<p><hr></blockquote><p> <br>Shiit MattMac112 I dunno. Hard to look up because what you quote I am describing someone who listens then writes his own thoughts. That is hard to track. I can easily take a sentence off of Rush's website and see if it is appearing here but what you ask is impossible. But that's OK.<br><br>People can listen to Rush and formulate their life structure. They can then come here and espouse it. That is perfectly fine and dandy. I have no qualms about it. Don't make my complaint into that. It is not. I might accuse you of creating a "straw man". HAHAHAHAHHA<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 08:00 PM

You threw out the charge. I'm just asking you to provide an example or two. [censored], didn't realize it was too hard for you to back up your claim. <br><br>The only ones I read bellyaching about listening to Rush are the house liberals . . . FWIW.<br><br>Incidentally, the same thing can be said . . . <br><br><blockquote>I can easily take a sentence off of Rush's website and see if it is appearing here</blockquote><br><br>. . . of the raging anarchists around here. Go to any BUSHLIEDPEOPLEDIEDWARFOROILWEREALLGOINGTODIE blogs, print it off, come back and hold it up to the monitor and you've got a damn near perfect match. Any "faux" outrage left in you about that? Hmm? Whazzat? No, didn't think so. <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 08:08 PM

I didn't "throw out a charge". I basically said, "people hear stuff and then the say stuff". I would confess people may do that to Air America as well as Rush. But since only three people listen to Air I figure it would not make a terrific example.<br><br>Again you may be straw doggin" it here. What has this one sentence have to do with the price if sheep shiit in Iraq?<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 08:42 PM

I only bellyache over Rush when he lies and the house conservatives repeat it as fact <br><br>Or when he mocks torture, blames Hillary and the feminazis for all our problems, blames the Hollywood Elite, uses the word "seething", or acts as a media conduit for the White House. Other than that he's entertainment that allows me to laugh at the elitist & divisive conservative mindset. <br><br><br><br> <br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 08:58 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I didn't "throw out a charge".<p><hr></blockquote><p>You sure as hell did . . . <br><br><blockquote>I accept the political debate here in this forum as you do but I do it to a point. one can listen to Rush on the radio and hear the same arguments espoused here in this forum a day later.</blockquote><br><br>. . . no need to vacillate, Paul. All I was doing was asking you to do was point to the outbreak of Rush Limbaugh "espousing" that goes on here (so you claim). <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 09:18 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I only bellyache over Rush when he lies and the house conservatives repeat it as fact<p><hr></blockquote><p>Where? Who? When? <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Or when he mocks torture, blames Hillary and the feminazis for all our problems, blames the Hollywood Elite, uses the word "seething"<p><hr></blockquote><p>Listen, you're much, much more of a listener of Rush Limbaugh than any conservative voice in this forum. So I'll just have to take your word on it. I do have a week of vacation left. Maybe I'll listen to his show then. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Other than that he's entertainment that allows me to laugh at the elitist & divisive conservative mindset.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Gosh, you're so right Gary. If only conservatives were as . . .<br><br><embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/barnett112/.Music/middler.mp3" width=320 height=25 controller="true" autoplay="false" type="video/quicktime"><br><br>W-W-W-WHAAAT?! . . . HEY!! Did Bette Middler just call Rush . . . **GASP** u-n-A-m-e-r-i-c-a-n? I didn't think people were supposed to do that. To liberals, challenging someone's patriotism is right up there alongside murder, isn't it? <br><br>Better turn to the leader of the Demos and hear what he has to say . . . <br><br><embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/barnett112/.Music/HowardDean.mp3" width=320 height=25 controller="true" autoplay="false" type="video/quicktime"><br><br>Damn it! I wish conservatives were as "undivisive" as Howard Dean or Hollywood elitist Bette Middler. <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 09:19 PM

Add the next sentences:<br><br> accept the political debate here in this forum as you do but I do it to a point. one can listen to Rush on the radio and hear the same arguments espoused here in this forum a day later. That's OK. And I say "that's OK" not as some friggin' forum police but just as trying to explain what happens. one can listen to an energetic speaker and because they are so persuasive their words become your own. That is how we communicate. <br><br><br>I was not throwing out a charge or arguing anything over that point. What point are you arguing? That I think people listen to Rush and form really strong opinions? Holy Shiit!<br><br>What are you arguing exactly? I only used it as an example of how we communicate. We ingest ideas and then we espouse them. Last I looked that is how the world spins on it's axis.<br><br>Now if you want to argue about someone reading Rush's website then pasting his exact words into their own post then I have a problem with that. It is called lying, cheating and stealing. Also known as plagiarism. But I have no idea what bee is in your bonnet. Could you go back and re-read the entire thread? I think you skipped over something.<br><br>I have a feeling you skimmed and thought I took a shot at Rush or people who listen to Rush. I did not.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 09:21 PM

wouldn't paul have to listen to rush limbaugh first? the way he wrote it, he could easily be speaking of future tense (though, he wasn't making a charge). one *can* listen to limbaugh (some day) and then come here and find similarities. i wouldn't be surprised if this were true, but i have no intention of going through the agony of listening to limbaugh. <br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 09:27 PM

Actually, Paul repeated my comment "I can listen to Rush in the morning and later read here the same outrage verbatim. It's pretty easy to spot when the exact language is used in those arguments."<br><br>There have been times I've called you or Bryan on this (I know, you tell me you rarely listen to Rush, and please, do not bother doing a search of all my threads to shoot me down) Well, the language is the same, so I guess Rush's influence spreads very far. I see it as stereotypes of "Liberals" that Rush has coined into the culture. Whether it's comments made the same day on Ward Churchill, Sen Durbin or the phantom Liberal Uproar Against John Roberts...<br><br>How common are the Drudge or Newsmax headlines repeated here? Pretty damn often. That's an easy mouseclick to spot. For the few times each week I may hear a portion of Rush's show, it's easy to spot when the filtered version may appear in a thread. Even from the viewpoint of a foaming-at-the-mouth seething liberal.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:05 PM

It's the same tired old (and incorrect) charge that liberals like to make when talking about conservatives . . . That they repeat what "Rush tells them." <br><br>And, what a surprise, you repeated that charge here. I'm just saying step up and point to the people who do this. Who specifically in this forum, the Political Soapbox, does this? <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:08 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>wouldn't paul have to listen to rush limbaugh first?<p><hr></blockquote><p>One would think. I'm just asking him to point it out.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>the way he wrote it, he could easily be speaking of future tense<p><hr></blockquote><p>So in other words, he's making a baseless charge. If:<br><br>1). He's not listening to Rush and making this charge, and<br><br>2). Speaking of the future tense and not now, then he's just making a baseless charge based on what? Supposition? <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:15 PM

i don't think he made a charge, but i have <a href="http://www.macminute.com/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/showthreaded.pl?Cat=&Board=politics&Number=203116&page=&view=&sb=&o=&vc=1#Post203116">seen garyw point out</a> when he's seen an article or headline at the drudge report being echoed here without credit going to drudge. drudge, limbaugh . . . same difference in the grand scheme of things.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 10:15 PM

In all the liberal websites and forums I read, never are Bette Midler, Sean Penn, Susan Sarandon, Barbara Streisand or Whoopi Goldberg ever mentioned or discussed. What's your (and Rush's and Ingraham's and Hannity's and Drudge's..) obsession with them? They have political beliefs that no one could give a f*ck about, but they are able to use their celebrity status to talk on camera about themselves or to raise tons of money for Democratic fundraisers. That's why I believe they are in the crosshairs of conservative talk shows, because they raise money. If I ever quote Bette Midler on this forum, just shoot me.<br><br><br>As far as Dean soundbite (Meet The Press, 5/22):<br><br>"MR. RUSSERT: <br>Do you really hate Republicans? Do you consider them evil?<br><br>DR. DEAN: I don't--well, actually that was a little out of context. But I don't hate Republicans as individuals. But I hate what the Republicans are doing to this country. I really do. I hate deficits, as you know. When I was governor, I really was very tough on fiscal responsibility. Deficits in the long run aren't good for the country, and they do lower our standard of living. Every American family knows that you have to pay your bills. I hate the dishonesty, you know, the idea that you'd put a program through Congress without telling people what it costs, I think that's wrong. Some of the things that the president said on our way into Iraq, they just weren't true, and I don't think that's right. So..."<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 11:41 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>i don't think he made a charge<p><hr></blockquote><p>I do. I'm just asking to show me where. Show me when and show me by whom. <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/05/05 11:52 PM

No need to be an apologist for the self-important Hollywood crowd, GDub. These people like to walk around and spout off their political points of view (not saying they shouldn't) and, as far as I'm concerned, they're not "hands off." I do find it interesting that these liberals, along with political figures like Harry Reid, go around screaming and crying and demanding that they're "patriotism not be questioned", yet . . . Well, I'll let Bette speak for herself.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>That's why I believe they are in the crosshairs of conservative talk shows<p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm not a conservative talk show. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>As far as Dean soundbite (Meet The Press, 5/22)<p><hr></blockquote><p>As far as the Dean soundbite, he got his nuts in a wringer with his dumbass comment and then backpeddles on Meet The Press. Oh my! <br><br>That hasn't kept him from being less "divisive"(your word) on down the road, now has it?<br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: drjohn

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 01:03 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>. . . of the raging anarchists around here.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Anarchists? Come on now...just the opposite.<br><br>From wikipedia:<br><br>Anarchism is derived from the Greek &#945;&#957;&#945;&#961;&#967;&#943;&#945; ("without archons (rulers)"). Thus "anarchism," in its most general meaning, is [color:blue]the belief that rulership is unnecessary and should be abolished. All forms of anarchism oppose the existence of a State and favor what they percieve to be voluntary relations between individuals.</font color=blue> Various types of anarchism devise particular organizations of society and economic systems that they believe are most consistent with the lack of "rulership" and most conducive to the maximization of freedom.<br><br>My emphasis in [color:blue]blue</font color=blue>.<br><br>I believe you are referring to what are commonly called liberals...as in the annoited class.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:27 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>...the belief that rulership is unnecessary...<p><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, I get it. Teenagers! <br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:48 AM

Gee sean, for a second there it looked like you're defending Paul. You know, like what you, in a SNIDE moment of your own, accused me of doing for Matt.<br><br>Funny, ain't it, how it's ok for you to support your like-minded comrades, but when someone on the other side of the ping-pong table does it, you're right there with back-handed criticism. I guess that's no surprise, either.<br><br>So... talk to me about straw men, eh?<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 06:37 AM

looked like it? of course i was. but more than that, i enjoy engaging matt in debate and discussion and i liked the perspective i brought to that discussion.<br><br>EDIT: the difference is that i am proud of my contribution to the exchange. you appear to be a bit self-concious of yours.<br><br>do you understand the straw-man concept?<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sean on 08/06/05 09:56 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 06:59 AM

*sigh* Yes, sean. I understand the straw man concept. It also happens to be an effective tool in the selling of creative concepts to advertising clients. Taking a definition of it as your signature does not make you the guardian of the idea.<br><br>Glad to see you're proud of your defense of someone else's position. Just wondering why you find it a problem when someone else does the same.<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 07:02 AM

When I say "They have political beliefs that no one could give a f*ck about", you interpret that as me being an apologist for them. I asked earlier in this thread, do you read or just paint your stereotype so you can attack? <br><br>As far as Dean's comment, I guess it is more truthful and newsworthy when you tell us what Dean meant rather than him answering the charge directly. Oh my! <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 08:11 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>As far as Dean's comment, I guess it is more truthful and newsworthy when you tell us what Dean meant rather than him answering the charge directly. Oh my!<p><hr></blockquote><p>Dean made his comments, was busted over it, does a tap dance on Meet The Press, then goes out an promptly ups his rhetoric. Golly GDub, maybe I'm just being too unfair. <br><br>NOT!<br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 08:53 AM

That's fair enough, but from my point of view you are still telling me what you want to hear, not what is actually being said by the man who said it. The man stated he 'hates' what Republicans stand for, clearly not the best choice of words to see in print, but have you now become so PC that the word is to be banished from our vocabulary? Oh, the (fake) outrage. <br><br>Twice in this thread you interpreted what I've said to something you wanted me to say, not what I said. But your interpretation helps with your 'looney hateful foaming-at-the-mouth Liberal' arguments, so be it.<br><br>And for a long while you and Bryan like to to use 'GDub' or "Dubya" as an insult to me, well, I Don't Care . Funny, that you think that somehow relating my username to the President's nicknames is a put down. I think it's just a bit juvenile, your little mindf*ck you like to play. Meanwhile, I bet that others reading this are just laughing at you too.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 08:57 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> So in other words, he's making a baseless charge. If:<br><br>1). He's not listening to Rush and making this charge, and<br><br>2). Speaking of the future tense and not now, then he's just making a baseless charge based on what? Supposition? <p><hr></blockquote><p><br>(one last time trying to explain myself)<br><br>You're right!!! It was totally baseless because I made no charge. I don't listen to Rush and it was present pluperfect tense. It could be past, present or future. Because I was making no accusation. I was simply stating how one can come to this forum and read stuff that was probably discussed somewhere else. Which is OK as long as it is not a perfect copy as Skul did. To achieve my point I could and should have used a hundred other names other than Rush so your undies wouldn't get in such a bunch.<br><br>But now you can say I am back-pedaling from my charge that I did not make. You likely have gotten your wish which is derailing any valid discussion of anything of importance. Is that an accusation? Yes, it is. You do it to threads all the time here interjecting nonsense into threads you do not like. It is successful ploy which drives people away from this forum. That is an accusation too.<br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 09:19 AM

That seems to be the general pattern here lately.<br>twisting words beyond all recognition then belittling <br>and ridiculing the members to shut down the debate.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 01:39 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>eanwhile, I bet that others reading this are just laughing<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Right you are! <br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 02:11 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>That's fair enough, but from my point of view you are still telling me what you want to hear<p><hr></blockquote><p>Am I? Let's let Howard say it . . .<br><br><embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/barnett112/.Music/HowardDean.mp3" width=320 height=25 controller="true" autoplay="false" type="video/quicktime"><br><br>Hmmmm . . . Now, I'm clearly hearing Dean say:<br><br><blockquote>"I hate the Republicans and everything they stand for"</blockquote><br><br>Good God! You're telling me I'm . . . now let me get this straight . . . You're telling me that I'm telling you I'm hearing Dean say he hates Republicans because it's only what I want to hear? Now . . . let's be clear . . . Dean actually says "I hate the Repubicans" and then "and everything they stand for." But according to you, that's not what he said. Is that right?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>not what is actually being said by the man who said it.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Wow. So Dean says he hates Republicans, but you say that's not what he said.<br><br>Whoo Boy GDub. That's some f*cked up thinking you have going on. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And for a long while you and Bryan like to to use 'GDub' or "Dubya" as an insult to me<p><hr></blockquote><p>What? GDubya is an insult? Really? Aren't those your initials? GDubya? Am I mistaken? Why would this be an insult to you?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Meanwhile, I bet that others reading this are just laughing at you too.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Only JohnR, but then, who gives a sh*t what JohnR/OSXaddict is laughing at? <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 02:25 PM

HAHAHAH I'm glad you don't give a [censored] Matt, because I don't either. <br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 02:33 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>HAHAHAH I'm glad you don't give a [censored] Matt, because I don't either.<p><hr></blockquote><p>HAHAHAHA Well obviously you do because you posted in the first place. HAHAHAHA <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 02:42 PM

Well, the same could be said about yours.<br><br>And if you noticed, I cut the part off where it said "at you" because I wasn't laughing at anyone in particular, just in general at the silliness of this thread.<br><br>But hey...if you take offense, no skin off my back.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:04 PM

squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak squeak *<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>*sound of back-pedaling.<br><br>
Posted by: garyW

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:11 PM

"What? GDubya is an insult? Really? Aren't those your initials? GDubya? Am I mistaken? Why would this be an insult to you?<br><br>You answered that question yourself:<br><br>"Not anywhere near the pettiness of dumbasses who refer to Bush as "dubya", for example. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:15 PM

Backpeddling? confused<br><br>I see now why I don't come in here very much because you guys read something else other than what's posted.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:22 PM

Oh sure. Right. 10-4.<br><br><br>BTW, I said back-pedaling. Backpeddling would be something like reverse retail. I see why you're confused.<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 03:24 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>"Not anywhere near the pettiness of dumbasses who refer to Bush as "dubya", for example.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>But we're not talking about Bush. We're talking about you. <br><br>* * * * * * * * * * * * * *<br>I [censored] bigger than you.<br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 08:04 PM

It's refreshing to see you do a little self commentary. Keep up the good work. <br><br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/06/05 08:23 PM

&[censored][censored]" That's why I'm better than you. Sure, argue to the contrary until your blue in the face. It won't change a single thing. <br><br>You're words are right there for all to see and realize what manner of person you are. What you said makes me a little sad, though. I expected better of you. Not to say you hurt my feelings, no. What I mean is that it's too bad when I find a man so lacking in character. It's a shame, really. <br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 12:35 AM

In that case, <br>let me second Poly's astute assessment.<br><br><br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 09:02 AM

Ah, isn't that nice, but you didn't have to prove that I'm better than you, too. I already knew that. Now, rather than being a bitter, dried up, manless, overweight cow, why don't you get the fork out of your ever open hole, and go to the gym. <br><br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 09:06 AM

Poly, what's up? No reply? At least I responded when questioned about the dreded missing quotes. Coward.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 10:56 AM

Sweety,<br><br>The only thing you're forking<br>is YOURSELF deeper in everyone else's esteem.<br><br>I agreed to try to be civil<br>but you're still on your self destructive downward spiral.<br><br>real smart <br><br>There are several members here that know I'm telling the truth<br>I PMed more than just MikeB to try to get them to intervene<br>between you and Cherry, before I stepped in to try to stop it.<br><br>You're really in need of therapy. Please get some before you kill <br>someone that rejects your attentions again.<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 11:32 AM

You had your chance to show you could be an honest and thoughtful person and turned around and knifed me. So don't give me this sweetie crap. <br><br>I don't care if you spend the rest of your life being civil. You don't mean it. It's because I bought in to believing you really were that I found out how two faced you are. I don't expect anyone to take my side, support my view, join my camp. This isn't a popularity contest. You're a user and a liar. And lets not forget the time someone else sent you personal information via a private message, which you then published for all to see. <br><br>I'm not running around desperatly trying to convince anyone of what happened, unlike you. I don't need to. It happened to me. That's good enough. Those who know me to be fair and honest, although I admit I can be a bit zelous, will accept my word. So F you and your manufactured civility. <br><br>Stop your whining and own up to your betrayal, or take the kick in the butt I dish out to you. <br><br>You're my dog. Say, 'woof!' <br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 12:23 PM

Would you please stop dropping hints about some imaginary slight<br>and [color:red]kindly shyte or get off the pot</font color=red>?<br><br>You FukSake; DON'T YOU THINK EVERYONE SAW YOU ABUSING HER <br>FOR CHRIST SAKE, JUST LIKE YOU'RE NOW DOING TO ME?????<br><br>WHAT???? DO YOU HAVE A SCREW LOOSE OR SOMETHING????<br><br><br>I was willing to make peace, and suggested that you apologize <br>to Cherry but as soon as your buddy came home, you went right <br>back to bullying other members and lying about it.<br><br><br>Sorry, but that negated the deal as far as I was concerned.<br><br> wouldn't abide stinking bullies then I still won't.<br><br>So I became the new focus of your seething hatred of women.<br><br>WHATEVER<br><br>But for KriseSake <br><br>[color:red][b]CEASE & DESIST IMPLYING THAT THERE'S SOME HIDEOUS SECRET!!!</font color=red><br><br>[b]If You Persist With These Accusations <br>I WILL be FORCED To Defend Myself by Offering The PMs As EVIDENCE <br>That These HORRENDOUS "STABS IN THE BACK AND BETRAYALS" <br>Are A PRODUCT OF YOUR SICK MIND![b]<br><br>GEEZE! I DETEST Your little school-girl tactics!<br>You have some guilty need to be hated???<br><br>EGAD! GO GET HELP! <br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 01:00 PM

<br>GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! <br>GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! <br>GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! <br>GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! <br>GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! GO GET HELP! <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 01:23 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>Stop your whining and own up to your betrayal, or take the kick in the butt I dish out to you. <br><br>You're my dog. Say, 'woof!' <br><p><hr></blockquote><p> <br>YOUR DOG??????<br><br>YOU SLIMEY MOTHER_______!<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 04:24 PM

You're just now seeing that? Guess I need to teach you how to listen first.<br>Guess it's true about old dogs and new tricks.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 04:29 PM

Don't worry;<br>Just like tossing aside any deal with you when it was you <br>that broke the peace last time as well, and then cried foul.<br>I do not value peace so much that I will suffer your insults.<br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 05:14 PM

That means a lot coming from someone as guiltless as you. Steve only has to show his face and you desend on him with a crap storm of biting insults. He's not alone. Anyone that does not see eye to eye with you, you find justification to slam them. <br><br>It was nice and peaceful before you came here. You proclaimed that you were leaving. To our surprise, you stayed. I'm guessing the other forums kicked you out and you have no place else. That says a lot about how other places can't tolerate you. <br><br>Roll over! Sit up!<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 05:27 PM

read this please<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: I don't care - 08/07/05 06:57 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> That means a lot coming from someone as guiltless as you. Steve only has to show his face and you desend on him with a crap storm of biting insults. He's not alone. Anyone that does not see eye to eye with you, you find justification to slam them. <br><br>It was nice and peaceful before you came here. You proclaimed that you were leaving. To our surprise, you stayed. I'm guessing the other forums kicked you out and you have no place else. That says a lot about how other places can't tolerate you. <p><hr></blockquote><p><br>What is the forum job you have designated for yourself skul? To drive people away from this forum? You initiate a thread shooting up bottle rockets because Dissenter has been driven away as if you are proud of that. You want to drive off Celandine. Celandine thinks you drove off Cherry. No idea but is that another feather for your quill?<br><br>Do you want to end up with a forum of extremely like minded individuals? Because if you do I can imagine it being a very lonely place.<br><br>Nobody wants that. Riotous calamity is what we want in the political soapbox. Or at least I would hope everyone wants that. If you don't, check your pulse because you are a rotting corpse.<br><br><br><br><br>