[bleh!]

Re: London bombings, today's great moments in broadcasting<br><br><br>Fox News host Brian Kilmeade: I think that works to our advantage, in the Western world's advantage, for people to experience something like this together, just 500 miles from where the attacks have happened. »<br><br>Fox News contributing correspondent Simon Marks: "[T]hese people are, if necessary, prepared to spill Arab blood in addition to the blood of regular -- of non-Arab people living in London. »<br><br>Fox News Washington managing editor Brit Hume: "my first thought when I heard" about the attack "and I saw the futures this morning," was "Hmmm, time to buy. »<br><br>Fox News host John Gibson: echoed previous day's comments that if IOC had picked France, terrorists would "blow up Paris, and who cares?" »<br><br>Limbaugh on London attacks<br>Limbaugh downplayed London bombings, claimed "40 people dead" is "not a successful terrorist attack" »<br>"It's like I said -- 40 people dead, 150 seriously wounded, 1,000 wounded out of over 1 million people in that transit tube. It's not a successful terrorist attack, folks."<br><br>Limbaugh's response to London: Durbin, NYT, Gitmo critics are "aiding and abetting" the terrorists; bin Laden "sounds like John Kerry" in 2004 »<br>"When bin Laden talks about the 'evils'of the United States and why it must be attacked, it sounds like John Kerry and his 2004 presidential campaign.<br><br><br><br>

Eh...<br><br>Partisan "media watch" organizations don't impress me. You never hear the context of what was said, only the context in which they want to present it. <br><br>

Media matters does a pretty good job of context on their website with providing comprehensive transcripts and long video/audio clips. Brock gets really ridiculous sometimes. He was complaining a while back that the NPR ombudsmen was advancing the myth that the ombudsmen at CPB were on the left and right (they're both pretty conservative). I read the column he was complaining about and the tone of the whole thing ranged from conciliatory to sarcastic to disappointed, he was certainly not being some Tomlison shill.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>

I'm not surprised to see that kind of crap from people who can only conceptualize things based on their own political advancement.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>

QT link<br><br>The correct context to make them sound like idiots? Brit Hume's first thoughts were of futures trading? Or does he share the same insight as Rush that not enough people were killed or maimed to make this a real success of a terror attack? <br><br>It's really okay to step out from your little bubble for brief moments of insanity like this and say "yes, FoxNews sucked." <br><br><br><br>

Shepard Smith of FoxNews is an idiot too (.wmv link) <br><br>Please read the "Fox Facts" that appear on screen while he goes on his attack <br><br><br><br>

George Soros backed "Media Matters" is so highly partisan it's laughable. "Media Matters" as long as it's focused on one cable news outlet.<br> <br><br><br>

highly partisan.... well doh!<br><br>And somehow Shepard Smith (a link not found on Media Matters) contradicting his own network and spinning his own made-up conclusions is not worthy of criticism? <br><br>Brit Hume's comment is not worthy of criticism? The clip sure gave a lot of breathing room before and after the comments as not to change their context.<br><br><br>So why attack Media Matters? Please clear things up for me if any of this, as shown in the two clips, is taken out of context and edited for partisan attacks.<br>As you are a champion of honest media, please explain how any of these comments are worth your praise? I thought you might even agree with me that FoxNew's and Rush's comments were lame.<br><br><br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Brit Hume's comment is not worthy of criticism? The clip sure gave a lot of breathing room before and after the comments as not to change their context.<p><hr></blockquote><p>And what exactly was Hume saying that was "worthy" of criticism (other than his comments were made on FOX NEWS!)? Out of 1,440 minutes (of a 24 hour news story), we get a snippet of Hume talking about the stock market . . . OMG!<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>As you are a champion of honest media, please explain how any of these comments are worth your praise?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Other than tugging, pulling, pushing, dragging the leftist party-line bogeyman shrieking of FOX NEWS! FOX NEWS! FOX NEWS!, what was so "bad" about these comments ... snippets, really, gleaned from an all consuming 24 hour news story. <br><br>

<br>QT ~ouch!~<br><br>Talk about Bias!<br>Dubin calls a spade a spade<br>and you'd think he'd shot their<br>faverit huntin' dawg... <br>but these guys get flipped off again<br>as *Ho-Hum* "just comments" <br><br>Dare I say it?<br><br>It just goes to fit<br>(...letz all say it together...)<br>"THE NEO-CON TEMPLATE!"<br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Sadly, Rush's comments are close to being correct. Though most Brits don't remember the blitz, the national identity of Britain hasn't moved much beyond that. During the Battle of Britain 30000 Londoner's were killed, yet every day it was business as usual.<br><br>The point of a terrorist attack is to strike fear into the common people (that was also the aim of the blitz - to demoralise). It is to make people change their normal routine through fear. With Britain once the initial shock of the attack has gone (usually a matter of hours), the emergency services move in the clean up and investigate. The rest of the people will open their shops and offices for business as soon as the police allow them to get to their front doors - business as usual.<br><br>The tube system was shut down for 1 day, it reopened the next day apart from areas where structural safety is in question.<br>Buses were still running.<br>People were working (just wondering how they were going to get home that night - or maybe sleeping in the office under the desk)<br><br>The only effect that is left to run its course is will the British Government change any of its policies in the area of the War on Terror. If they don't then this attack could be said to be a strategic failure.<br><br>(Please note that this is not meant as a commentary on the deaths caused, merely the Britiish National Identity when it comes to being attacked).<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And somehow Shepard Smith (a link not found on Media Matters) contradicting his own network and spinning his own made-up conclusions is not worthy of criticism?<p><hr></blockquote><p>By the way, Fox News isn't a network. It's just one cable channel. On the other hand, CBS is a network. ABC is a network. NBC is a network.<br><br>

Well I will say one thing... the 50-60 Londoners killed is very SAD, however Iraqis have been enduring that amount almost every day or 2!! Remember one week a month or so ago >300 Iraqis were killed...in 1 single week ! The world will morn the London tragedy but don't shed as many tears for the innocent Iraqis caught in Bush's vice...Bush "broke Iraq" and now he can't put it back together!! Furthermore, if he'd stuck ON TASK and gotten OBL, destroyed AQ more thoroughly, and left Iraq OUT of this - the London and Madrid bombings may have never happened!<br>Although he didn't DO it - he bears much responsibility for making the situation WORSE.<br><br>David (OFI)<br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Furthermore, if he'd stuck ON TASK and gotten OBL, destroyed AQ more thoroughly, and left Iraq OUT of this - the London and Madrid bombings may have never happened!<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>You don't really believe that do you. Were we in Iraq in September 2001? How about any time during the 1990's? These people plan attacks for years, then they put them into action and to give our media something to beat their chests over blame it on a recent act performed by a western nation.<br><br>They will continue to attack us until "the zionists are put to death" (I think ObL put it recently). So give up your freedoms, convert to Islam, and they might leave you alone. Though Zaqawi has declared that it is ok to kill Muslims in this cause, so even that might not be enough to satisfy them.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> You don't really believe that do you. Were we in Iraq in September 2001? <p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes I do, and you're correct we were NOT in Iraq but had built permanent bases in S Arabia and some surrounding countries like Kuwait -... many Muslims did NOT like that.<br><br>It all has to do with our heavy handed involvement in those Muslim countries, Llew.<br><br>I still ask this question- WHY do we feel it is our "charge" to control the Middle East. Now we all know the REAL reason - OIL ! but we can't admit that .. oh no it's "free people", ...it's WMDs, ....he broke sanctions, ...Sadam was a bad egg (we helped create).... its every excuse but the real one - economic addiction to oil. <br><br>I still maintain if we got out of the ME all together... MOST the Muslim extremists would care less about us or our lifestyle. Sure some might still be POed about Israel, again we need to adopt a more "balanced" handling of that foreign policy... but the threats would be FAR, FAR much lower than what Bush's (I and 2) policies have created and Clinton maintained (he's not excused either).<br><br>Why can't we buy oil on the world market just like 95% of the rest of the world ?? (instead of trying to control the region and meddle in their affairs?)<br>That's all I'm asking Llew. Why wouldn't this approach work?<br>It would be FAR, FAR less costly in LIVES and $ due to military costs. Also consider the Billions having to be spent to pump up and maintain much more security than we ever have. By saying that I'm NOT suggesting we ever go back to pre-9/11 levels, but we won't have to maintain a "high or very high alert" forever. Think of all that cost- it factors into the cost of every barrel of oil we buy... you know the bottom line is the oil and it's availability, and our huge appetite for it to maintain our extravigant life styles.<br><br>I just don't think the current COST is sustaiable NOR desirable. It's a smarter way of doing business. Lower costs (both human and $)!<br><br>David (OFI)<br>

In the words of everyone at this point in the 'crusades' v.05<br>"F_ck the media" <br>Tiz like smoking cigarettes in the name of abstinance instead of healthy PROTECTED sex, like burning your life at both ends. Like not listening to airforce pilots around the world that wanna testify in regards to St.Pertersburg Russia 1997 and Belgium in 87 me thinks...<br><br>payce!<br><br>- Peace & Love.

So you are of the opinion that the extremist islamists are not out to establish a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world?<br><br>These people have declared that their goals are the goals of the crusades of the 11th century - that being to convert the known world to their faith, through conflict where they deem it necessary. If that is their goal then having or not having bases in the Middle East will not alter the fact that they will attack us.<br><br>Now I am not declaring that this is an holy war (and I don't think President Bush has said as much either), however, ObL sees this era as such. So I will not accept his statements at anything less than face value. This is a war against an idealistic fundamentalist organisation, and while President Bush's motives may be for the oil, to ObL this is a war for ours and his survival.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Some thoughts by a terrorist<br><br>And some other interesting reports from England<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

<br><br>'He said they were targeting the US because of their foreign policy in Israel and Palestine. And I understood that if these foreign policies did not change, then attacks would continue.'<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

What a bunch of racist crap!<br><br>Um, sure! Let me know when Muslim peoples invade and occupy our lands! <br><br>And it's not like you or anyone else know exactly who carried out the attacks on London. Yes, we're SUPPOSED to think that it's "The Secret Organization of Qaedat al-Jihad in Europe", but that's a little too obvious don't ya think?<br><br>Here read this:<br><br>How to Stop bin Laden<br><br>http://www.j-n-v.org/AW_briefings/JNV_briefing077.htm<br><br>Now we all know that the mujahideen (later named al qaeda by the U.S.) was created, trained, funded and armed by the U.S. back in the '80's. UBL is likely long dead. Whose interests are being served?<br><br>[shakeshead]<br><br>

.<br><br>NOT THE ONLY ONE...<br><br>The Same Conclusion was reached by a [color:red]Top 27year Veteran CIA Analyst.</font color=red><br><br>.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

ok. So what you're saying it that though ObL says that his goal is a pan-Islamic Caliphate throughout the world - that he is lying and it's a hook to bring in recruits, who do believe that is his goal.<br><br>Well thanks for clearing that up.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Keep listening to the same lies <br>that have been proliferating for <br>the last few thousand years. <br><br>That should change things. <br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

I'd like to know where your idea of racism in my comments comes from. My comments are about radical fundamental muslims - no differentiation between black, white, arabic or oriental. If you paid attention to all of my commentary you would come to understand the problem I have is with radical fundamentalists - muslim, christian, anti-abortionist, liberal, conservative, animal welfare, environmentalist - I'm an equal opportunity when it comes to me attacking radical fundamental idealism. I am not, and have not, said that this is a problem instigated by Islam as a whole - it is a bunch of crazies seconding a religion to their cause to give it some essence of validity.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Did you have some particular lies in mind?<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

You're so smart, You figure it out. <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

I can only surmise that you have no specific lies that I seem to be listening to, and that you're referring to anything said by anyone except your own close associates. So excuse me if I file your comments under - rantings of a wild eyed faerie who doesn't have a clue about what she's talking about or what it is I actually believe in.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Think what you wish.<br><br>You responded to posts<br>obviously you didn't even read them<br>or you would know what we were both talking about.<br><br>I'm a wild-eyed fairy?<br>How 'bout you're a senile old fuk?<br>It's as easy for you to dismiss people out of hand<br>by calling into question their mental acuity, see how YOU like it. <br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Well I don't know about you, but I'm here for political discussion and debate, which is why I hadn't bothered to reply to most of your comments to date. All I have seen from you so far are sniping comments at those you do not agree with, a round of back slapping for those you do agree with, and a bunch of vapid comments with no substance. If you want to discuss something concrete please bring it up so it can be discussed - and if the subject interests me, I may provide some personal opinions and insights.<br><br>But for now, I can see that your nickname of the Toxic Faerie is well placed. Have a nice day.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

<br>And here you prove it AGAIN<br>Parroting other people's labels.<br><br>You're quick with the name calling<br>...but you don't like it, do you? <br><br>There's no discussion here,<br>All you do is parrot the party line<br>If I wanted The O'Riley Factor<br>I'd watch it. I don't.<br><br>talking to you would be<br>a waste of time<br><br>Thanx. <br>have a nice day<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Maybe this will clear things up for you.<br><br>http://observer.guardian.co.uk/worldview/story/0,11581,845725,00.html<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Full text: bin Laden's 'letter to America'<br><br>Online document: the full text of Osama bin Laden's "letter to the American<br>people", reported in today's Observer. The letter first appeared on the internet<br>in Arabic and has since been translated and circulated by Islamists in Britain.<br><br>Observer Worldview<br><br>Sunday November 24, 2002<br><br>In the Name of Allah, the Most Gracious, the Most Merciful,<br><br>"Permission to fight (against disbelievers) is given to those (believers) who<br>are fought against, because they have been wronged and surely, Allah is Able to<br>give them (believers) victory" [Quran 22:39]<br><br>"Those who believe, fight in the Cause of Allah, and those who disbelieve, fight<br>in the cause of Taghut (anything worshipped other than Allah e.g. Satan). So<br>fight you against the friends of Satan; ever feeble is indeed the plot of<br>Satan."[Quran 4:76]<br><br>Some American writers have published articles under the title 'On what basis are<br>we fighting?' These articles have generated a number of responses, some of which<br>adhered to the truth and were based on Islamic Law, and others which have not.<br>Here we wanted to outline the truth - as an explanation and warning - hoping for<br>Allah's reward, seeking success and support from Him.<br><br>While seeking Allah's help, we form our reply based on two questions directed at<br>the Americans:<br><br>(Q1) Why are we fighting and opposing you? Q2)What are we calling you to, and<br>what do we want from you?<br><br>As for the first question: Why are we fighting and opposing you? The answer is<br>very simple:<br><br>(1) Because you attacked us and continue to attack us.<br><br>a) You attacked us in Palestine:<br><br>(i) Palestine, which has sunk under military occupation for more than 80 years.<br>The British handed over Palestine, with your help and your support, to the Jews,<br>who have occupied it for more than 50 years; years overflowing with oppression,<br>tyranny, crimes, killing, expulsion, destruction and devastation. The creation<br>and continuation of Israel is one of the greatest crimes, and you are the<br>leaders of its criminals. And of course there is no need to explain and prove<br>the degree of American support for Israel. The creation of Israel is a crime<br>which must be erased. Each and every person whose hands have become polluted in<br>the contribution towards this crime must pay its*price, and pay for it heavily.<br><br>(ii) It brings us both laughter and tears to see that you have not yet tired of<br>repeating your fabricated lies that the Jews have a historical right to<br>Palestine, as it was promised to them in the Torah. Anyone who disputes with<br>them on this alleged fact is accused of anti-semitism. This is one of the most<br>fallacious, widely-circulated fabrications in history. The people of Palestine<br>are pure Arabs and original Semites. It is the Muslims who are the inheritors of<br>Moses (peace be upon him) and the inheritors of the real Torah that has not been<br>changed. Muslims believe in all of the Prophets, including Abraham, Moses, Jesus<br>and Muhammad, peace and blessings of Allah be upon them all. If the followers of<br>Moses have been promised a right to Palestine in the Torah, then the Muslims are<br>the most worthy nation of this.<br><br>When the Muslims conquered Palestine and drove out the Romans, Palestine and<br>Jerusalem returned to Islaam, the religion of all the Prophets peace be upon<br>them. Therefore, the call to a historical right to Palestine cannot be raised<br>against the Islamic Ummah that believes in all the Prophets of Allah (peace and<br>blessings be upon them) - and we make no distinction between them.<br><br>(iii) The blood pouring out of Palestine must be equally revenged. You must know<br>that the Palestinians do not cry alone; their women are not widowed alone; their<br>sons are not orphaned alone.<br><br>(b) You attacked us in Somalia; you supported the Russian atrocities against us<br>in Chechnya, the Indian oppression against us in Kashmir, and the Jewish<br>aggression against us in Lebanon.<br><br>(c) Under your supervision, consent and orders, the governments of our countries<br>which act as your agents, attack us on a daily basis;<br><br>(i) These governments prevent our people from establishing the Islamic Shariah,<br>using violence and lies to do so.<br><br>(ii) These governments give us a taste of humiliation, and places us in a large<br>prison of fear and subdual.<br><br>(iii) These governments steal our Ummah's wealth and sell them to you at a<br>paltry price.<br><br>(iv) These governments have surrendered to the Jews, and handed them most of<br>Palestine, acknowledging the existence of their state over the dismembered limbs<br>of their own people.<br><br>(v) The removal of these governments is an obligation upon us, and a necessary<br>step to free the Ummah, to make the Shariah the supreme law and to regain<br>Palestine. And our fight against these governments is not separate from out<br>fight against you.<br><br>(d) You steal our wealth and oil at paltry prices because of you international<br>influence and military threats. This theft is indeed the biggest theft ever<br>witnessed by mankind in the history of the world.<br><br>(e) Your forces occupy our countries; you spread your military bases throughout<br>them; you corrupt our lands, and you besiege our sanctities, to protect the<br>security of the Jews and to ensure the continuity of your pillage of our<br>treasures.<br><br>(f) You have starved the Muslims of Iraq, where children die every day. It is a<br>wonder that more than 1.5 million Iraqi children have died as a result of your<br>sanctions, and you did not show concern. Yet when 3000 of your people died, the<br>entire world rises and has not yet sat down.<br><br>(g) You have supported the Jews in their idea that Jerusalem is their eternal<br>capital, and agreed to move your embassy there. With your help and under your<br>protection, the Israelis are planning to destroy the Al-Aqsa mosque. Under the<br>protection of your weapons, Sharon entered the Al-Aqsa mosque, to pollute it as<br>a preparation to capture and destroy it.<br><br>(2) These tragedies and calamities are only a few examples of your oppression<br>and aggression against us. It is commanded by our religion and intellect that<br>the oppressed have a right to return the aggression. Do not await anything from<br>us but Jihad, resistance and revenge. Is it in any way rational to expect that<br>after America has attacked us for more than half a century, that we will then<br>leave her to live in security and peace?!!<br><br>(3) You may then dispute that all the above does not justify aggression against<br>civilians, for crimes they did not commit and offenses in which they did not<br>partake:<br><br>(a) This argument contradicts your continuous repetition that America is the<br>land of freedom, and its leaders in this world. Therefore, the American people<br>are the ones who choose their government by way of their own free will; a choice<br>which stems from their agreement to its policies. Thus the American people have<br>chosen, consented to, and affirmed their support for the Israeli oppression of<br>the Palestinians, the occupation and usurpation of their land, and its<br>continuous killing, torture, punishment and expulsion of the Palestinians. The<br>American people have the ability and choice to refuse the policies of their<br>Government and even to change it if they want.<br><br>(b) The American people are the ones who pay the taxes which fund the planes<br>that bomb us in Afghanistan, the tanks that strike and destroy our homes in<br>Palestine, the armies which occupy our lands in the Arabian Gulf, and the fleets<br>which ensure the blockade of Iraq. These tax dollars are given to Israel for it<br>to continue to attack us and penetrate our lands. So the American people are the<br>ones who fund the attacks against us, and they are the ones who oversee the<br>expenditure of these monies in the way they wish, through their elected<br>candidates.<br><br>(c) Also the American army is part of the American people. It is this very same<br>people who are shamelessly helping the Jews fight against us.<br><br>(d) The American people are the ones who employ both their men and their women<br>in the American Forces which attack us.<br><br>(e) This is why the American people cannot be not innocent of all the crimes<br>committed by the Americans and Jews against us.<br><br>(f) Allah, the Almighty, legislated the permission and the option to take<br>revenge. Thus, if we are attacked, then we have the right to attack back.<br>Whoever has destroyed our villages and towns, then we have the right to destroy<br>their villages and towns. Whoever has stolen our wealth, then we have the right<br>to destroy their economy. And whoever has killed our civilians, then we have the<br>right to kill theirs.<br><br>The American Government and press still refuses to answer the question:<br><br>Why did they attack us in New York and Washington?<br><br>If Sharon is a man of peace in the eyes of Bush, then we are also men of<br>peace!!! America does not understand the language of manners and principles, so<br>we are addressing it using the language it understands.<br><br>(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you<br>to, and what do we want from you?<br><br>(1) The first thing that we are calling you to is Islam.<br><br>(a) The religion of the Unification of God; of freedom from associating partners<br>with Him, and rejection of this; of complete love of Him, the Exalted; of<br>complete submission to His Laws; and of the discarding of all the opinions,<br>orders, theories and religions which contradict with the religion He sent down<br>to His Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him). Islam is the religion of all the<br>prophets, and makes no distinction between them - peace be upon them all.<br><br>It is to this religion that we call you; the seal of all the previous religions.<br>It is the religion of Unification of God, sincerity, the best of manners,<br>righteousness, mercy, honour, purity, and piety. It is the religion of showing<br>kindness to others, establishing justice between them, granting them their<br>rights, and defending the oppressed and the persecuted. It is the religion of<br>enjoining the good and forbidding the evil with the hand, tongue and heart. It<br>is the religion of Jihad in the way of Allah so that Allah's Word and religion<br>reign Supreme. And it is the religion of unity and agreement on the obedience to<br>Allah, and total equality between all people, without regarding their colour,<br>sex, or language.<br><br>(b) It is the religion whose book - the Quran - will remained preserved and<br>unchanged, after the other Divine books and messages have been changed. The<br>Quran is the miracle until the Day of Judgment. Allah has challenged anyone to<br>bring a book like the Quran or even ten verses like it.<br><br>(2) The second thing we call you to, is to stop your oppression, lies,<br>immorality and debauchery that has spread among you.<br><br>(a) We call you to be a people of manners, principles, honour, and purity; to<br>reject the immoral acts of fornication, homosexuality, intoxicants, gambling's,<br>and trading with interest.<br><br>We call you to all of this that you may be freed from that which you have become<br>caught up in; that you may be freed from the deceptive lies that you are a great<br>nation, that your leaders spread amongst you to conceal from you the despicable<br>state to which you have reached.<br><br>(b) It is saddening to tell you that you are the worst civilization witnessed by<br>the history of mankind:<br><br>(i) You are the nation who, rather than ruling by the Shariah of Allah in its<br>Constitution and Laws, choose to invent your own laws as you will and desire.<br>You separate religion from your policies, contradicting the pure nature which<br>affirms Absolute Authority to the Lord and your Creator. You flee from the<br>embarrassing question posed to you: How is it possible for Allah the Almighty to<br>create His creation, grant them power over all the creatures and land, grant<br>them all the amenities of life, and then deny them that which they are most in<br>need of: knowledge of the laws which govern their lives?<br><br>(ii) You are the nation that permits Usury, which has been forbidden by all the<br>religions. Yet you build your economy and investments on Usury. As a result of<br>this, in all its different forms and guises, the Jews have taken control of your<br>economy, through which they have then taken control of your media, and now<br>control all aspects of your life making you their servants and achieving their<br>aims at your expense; precisely what Benjamin Franklin warned you against.<br><br>(iii) You are a nation that permits the production, trading and usage of<br>intoxicants. You also permit drugs, and only forbid the trade of them, even<br>though your nation is the largest consumer of them.<br><br>(iv) You are a nation that permits acts of immorality, and you consider them to<br>be pillars of personal freedom. You have continued to sink down this abyss from<br>level to level until incest has spread amongst you, in the face of which neither<br>your sense of honour nor your laws object.<br><br>Who can forget your President Clinton's immoral acts committed in the official<br>Oval office? After that you did not even bring him to account, other than that<br>he 'made a mistake', after which everything passed with no punishment. Is there<br>a worse kind of event for which your name will go down in history and remembered<br>by nations?<br><br>(v) You are a nation that permits gambling in its all forms. The companies<br>practice this as well, resulting in the investments becoming active and the<br>criminals becoming rich.<br><br>(vi) You are a nation that exploits women like consumer products or advertising<br>tools calling upon customers to purchase them. You use women to serve<br>passengers, visitors, and strangers to increase your profit margins. You then<br>rant that you support the liberation of women.<br><br>(vii) You are a nation that practices the trade of sex in all its forms,<br>directly and indirectly. Giant corporations and establishments are established<br>on this, under the name of art, entertainment, tourism and freedom, and other<br>deceptive names you attribute to it.<br><br>(viii) And because of all this, you have been described in history as a nation<br>that spreads diseases that were unknown to man in the past. Go ahead and boast<br>to the nations of man, that you brought them AIDS as a Satanic American<br>Invention.<br><br>(xi) You have destroyed nature with your industrial waste and gases more than<br>any other nation in history. Despite this, you refuse to sign the Kyoto<br>agreement so that you can secure the profit of your greedy companies<br>and*industries.<br><br>(x) Your law is the law of the rich and wealthy people, who hold sway in their<br>political parties, and fund their election campaigns with their gifts. Behind<br>them stand the Jews, who control your policies, media and economy.<br><br>(xi) That which you are singled out for in the history of mankind, is that you<br>have used your force to destroy mankind more than any other nation in history;<br>not to defend principles and values, but to hasten to secure your interests and<br>profits. You who dropped a nuclear bomb on Japan, even though Japan was ready to<br>negotiate an end to the war. How many acts of oppression, tyranny and injustice<br>have you carried out, O callers to freedom?<br><br>(xii) Let us not forget one of your major characteristics: your duality in both<br>manners and values; your hypocrisy in manners and principles. All*manners,<br>principles and values have two scales: one for you and one for the others.<br><br>(a)The freedom and democracy that you call to is for yourselves and for white<br>race only; as for the rest of the world, you impose upon them your monstrous,<br>destructive policies and Governments, which you call the 'American friends'. Yet<br>you prevent them from establishing democracies. When the Islamic party in<br>Algeria wanted to practice democracy and they won the election, you unleashed<br>your agents in the Algerian army onto them, and to attack them with tanks and<br>guns, to imprison them and torture them - a new lesson from the 'American book<br>of democracy'!!!<br><br>(b)Your policy on prohibiting and forcibly removing weapons of mass destruction<br>to ensure world peace: it only applies to those countries which you do not<br>permit to possess such weapons. As for the countries you consent to, such as<br>Israel, then they are allowed to keep and use such weapons to defend their<br>security. Anyone else who you suspect might be manufacturing or keeping these<br>kinds of weapons, you call them criminals and you take military action against<br>them.<br><br>(c)You are the last ones to respect the resolutions and policies of<br>International Law, yet you claim to want to selectively punish anyone else who<br>does the same. Israel has for more than 50 years been pushing UN resolutions and<br>rules against the wall with the full support of America.<br><br>(d)As for the war criminals which you censure and form criminal courts for - you<br>shamelessly ask that your own are granted immunity!! However, history will not<br>forget the war crimes that you committed against the Muslims and the rest of the<br>world; those you have killed in Japan, Afghanistan, Somalia, Lebanon and Iraq<br>will remain a shame that you will never be able to escape. It will suffice to<br>remind you of your latest war crimes in Afghanistan, in which densely populated<br>innocent civilian villages were destroyed, bombs were dropped on mosques causing<br>the roof of the mosque to come crashing down on the heads of the Muslims praying<br>inside. You are the ones who broke the agreement with the Mujahideen when they<br>left Qunduz, bombing them in Jangi fort, and killing more than 1,000 of your<br>prisoners through suffocation and thirst. Allah alone knows how many people have<br>died by torture at the hands of you and your agents. Your planes remain in the<br>Afghan skies, looking for anyone remotely suspicious.<br><br>(e)You have claimed to be the vanguards of Human Rights, and your Ministry of<br>Foreign affairs issues annual reports containing statistics of those countries<br>that violate any Human Rights. However, all these things vanished when the<br>Mujahideen hit you, and you then implemented the methods of the same documented<br>governments that you used to curse. In America, you captured thousands the<br>Muslims and Arabs, took them into custody with neither reason, court trial, nor<br>even disclosing their names. You issued newer, harsher laws.<br><br>What happens in Guatanamo is a historical embarrassment to America and its<br>values, and it screams into your faces - you hypocrites, "What is the value of<br>your signature on any agreement or treaty?"<br><br>(3) What we call you to thirdly is to take an honest stance with yourselves -<br>and I doubt you will do so - to discover that you are a nation without<br>principles or manners, and that the values and principles to you are something<br>which you merely demand from others, not that which you yourself must adhere to.<br><br>(4) We also advise you to stop supporting Israel, and to end your support of the<br>Indians in Kashmir, the Russians against the Chechens and to also cease<br>supporting the Manila Government against the Muslims in Southern Philippines.<br><br>(5) We also advise you to pack your luggage and get out of our lands. We desire<br>for your goodness, guidance, and righteousness, so do not force us to send you<br>back as cargo in coffins.<br><br>(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our<br>countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us<br>alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.<br><br>(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual<br>interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and<br>occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this<br>will result in more disasters for you.<br><br>If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the<br>Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and<br>fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the<br>words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you<br>are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands<br>and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of<br>believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah<br>accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise."<br>[Quran9:13-1]<br><br>The Nation of honour and respect:<br><br>"But honour, power and glory belong to Allah, and to His Messenger (Muhammad-<br>peace be upon him) and to the believers." [Quran 63:8]<br><br>"So do not become weak (against your enemy), nor be sad, and you will<br>be*superior ( in victory )if you are indeed (true) believers" [Quran 3:139]<br><br>The Nation of Martyrdom; the Nation that desires death more than you desire<br>life:<br><br>"Think not of those who are killed in the way of Allah as dead. Nay, they are<br>alive with their Lord, and they are being provided for. They rejoice in what<br>Allah has bestowed upon them from His bounty and rejoice for the sake of those<br>who have not yet joined them, but are left behind (not yet martyred) that on<br>them no fear shall come, nor shall they grieve. They rejoice in a grace and a<br>bounty from Allah, and that Allah will not waste the reward of the believers."<br>[Quran 3:169-171]<br><br>The Nation of victory and success that Allah has promised:<br><br>"It is He Who has sent His Messenger (Muhammad peace be upon him) with guidance<br>and the religion of truth (Islam), to make it victorious over all other<br>religions even though the Polytheists hate it." [Quran 61:9]<br><br>"Allah has decreed that 'Verily it is I and My Messengers who shall be<br>victorious.' Verily Allah is All-Powerful, All-Mighty." [Quran 58:21]<br><br>The Islamic Nation that was able to dismiss and destroy the previous evil<br>Empires like yourself; the Nation that rejects your attacks, wishes to remove<br>your evils, and is prepared to fight you. You are well aware that the Islamic<br>Nation, from the very core of its soul, despises your haughtiness and arrogance.<br><br>If the Americans refuse to listen to our advice and the goodness, guidance and<br>righteousness that we call them to, then be aware that you will lose this<br>Crusade Bush began, just like the other previous Crusades in which you were<br>humiliated by the hands of the Mujahideen, fleeing to your home in great silence<br>and disgrace. If the Americans do not respond, then their fate will be that of<br>the Soviets who fled from Afghanistan to deal with their military defeat,<br>political breakup, ideological downfall, and economic bankruptcy.<br><br>This is our message to the Americans, as an answer to theirs. Do they now know<br>why we fight them and over which form of ignorance, by the permission of Allah,<br>we shall be victorious?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>There is a key fundamentalism you left out. Fundamental Zionism.<br><br>http://www.palestineremembered.com<br><br>Who benefits from these attacks?<br><br>http://www.newamericancentury.org/RebuildingAmericasDefenses.pdf<br><br>

So while my commentary was simplistic, it was in essence correct. Having missed out the why they attacked us:<br>1) We support the jews.<br>2) We support the governments in the middle east - preventing ObL from overthrowing them and forming them into an Islamic Caliphate.<br>3) Placing bases in the middle east.<br>4) and a few more, but those are enough for now.<br><br>To repent and prevent further attacks, we must:<br>1) Go home and leave the jews to be killed.<br>2) Let ObL and cohorts overthrow the middle eastern governments - uniting into a single nation.<br>3) Convert to Islam<br>4) Give up or debauchery - including homosexuality, fornication, gambling, and intoxications.<br>5) Stop exploiting women - keep them locked up at home and arrange their marriages for them.<br><br>That pretty much covers the major points - and I liked the bit about letting Bill Clinton get off scot-free - my first thought was ObL's a Republican <br><br>Either way, I would have thought that in most peoples view - be it Christian, Jewish, Agnostic, Buddhist or whatever - there's one or two of those requirements to call off the attacks which are going to be a bit of a sticking point. I know I don't intend to convert to Islam, and I'm probably not the only one here.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Thanks. Clears up a lot, actually. Except for one remainig question:<br>Do you keep his photo in your wallet, or taped to your locker door? <br><br>

Bloody Infidel!!! <br><br>

**yawn**<br><br>

Past your bed-time is it?<br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>1) We support the jews.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Do you support ethnic cleansing?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>2) We support the governments in the middle east<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes the U.S. supports, props up, trains, arms dictatorships, despotic regimes, etc. when it suits it's interests, including Saddam Husseien and Osama bin Laden<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>preventing ObL from overthrowing them and forming them into an Islamic Caliphate.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Your twist just isn't there.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>3) Placing bases in the middle east.<p><hr></blockquote><p>U.S. strategy. Military control of the entire planet. Weaponizing space. China is the end game. Faked U.S. satelite imagery got the bases in Saudi Arabia. (There were NO Iraqi tanks and 250,000 Iraqi troops massed along the Saudi border)<br><br>And since the rest of your post is a bunch of unsubstantiated crap. Especially this world must convert to islam crap! I'll leave it there.<br><br>What ever you do, do not deal with the roots of the problems, including it's associated history.<br><br><br><br><br>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>(Q2) As for the second question that we want to answer: What are we calling you to, and what do we want from you?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Sorry I was assuming that the reponses to this question was basically what does America need to do to stop the fundamentilist from attacking us. What did you think it meant?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>(6) Sixthly, we call upon you to end your support of the corrupt leaders in our<br>countries. Do not interfere in our politics and method of education. Leave us<br>alone, or else expect us in New York and Washington.<br><br>(7) We also call you to deal with us and interact with us on the basis of mutual<br>interests and benefits, rather than the policies of sub dual, theft and<br>occupation, and not to continue your policy of supporting the Jews because this<br>will result in more disasters for you.<br><br>If you fail to respond to all these conditions, then prepare for fight with the<br>Islamic Nation. The Nation of Monotheism, that puts complete trust on Allah and<br>fears none other than Him. The Nation which is addressed by its Quran with the<br>words: "Do you fear them? Allah has more right that you should fear Him if you<br>are believers. Fight against them so that Allah will punish them by your hands<br>and disgrace them and give you victory over them and heal the breasts of<br>believing people. And remove the anger of their (believers') hearts. Allah<br>accepts the repentance of whom He wills. Allah is All-Knowing, All-Wise."<br>[Quran9:13-1]<p><hr></blockquote><p>And the entire subtext of this is that they want to replace the corrupt leaders of the Islamic world.<br><br>But then again I could be way off base. Care to provide your read on this? Or were you just concentrating on the reasons rather than their proposed solution?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>There is a key fundamentalism you left out. Fundamental Zionism.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>And there were many key fundamentalisms that I left out, so feel free to add more to my list as you discover them. Or are you just fixated on the one yourself?<br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Llewelyn on 07/12/05 00:12 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>

.<br>Isn't anyone allowed seek understanding into the reasons<br>behind what's been going on? To hear the OTHER SIDE of<br>the argument ----without your slimeball accusations?<br><br>"You're either with us or agin us!<br>CommiePinkoFaggot! <--alloneword <br>You muss be onea "THEM"!<br>Try upping your dosage!" <br><br>Thanks. Your Comments Clear up a lot, actually. <br>Except for one remainig question: <br>Do you keep your Sharon phallus in the medicine chest <br>next to the K-Y, or in the night stand beside your bed? <br><br>Bloody Infidel!!! INDEED!<br><br>.<br>Love- <br>"The Toxic Faerie" <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Isn't anyone allowed seek understanding into the reasons<br>behind what's been going on? To hear the OTHER SIDE of<br>the argument ----without your slimeball accusations?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Just following the outstanding example you set us all.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

<br><br>owowowow that hurt<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Can you possibly get any more disgusting? You slam everyone else about lack of civility, intolerance of other opinions, and inappropriate remarks, and then this kind of garbage falls out of that bilge pump you call a mouth?<br><br>Go fix yourself a peanut butter and K-Y sandwich.<br><br>

<br>AH! Don't like eating your own words either<br><br>Typical<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Not eating so much as a comma, dearest. But you're free to take it any way you want to (which might explain your K-Y reference).<br><br>

Stay on point shyte breath!<br><br>You IMPLIED that someone supported ObL<br>for posting a link in answer to a question,<br>as a cheap-shot to INTIMIDATE other members <br>from considering even reading the links.<br><br>I just get tired of your cheap tricks...<br>...but I never get tired of telling you so. <br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

I doubt it was just the link(s), that created that implication.<br><br>So far Zappy has accused me of being racist - I'm not clear where I actually made a racist statement of if Zappy doesn't understand the term. He has implied in his posts that ObL is entirely justified in sponsoring bombs on trains and crashing large planes into tall buildings - because it's all US/Britain/Spain/etc fault.<br><br>We've had a post of a letter from ObL that supports his contention that ObL believes that USA foreign policy is the reason that he (ObL) is attacking the US and corrupt followers. Yet he ignores the entire answer to the second part of ObL's letter - or doesn't understand it, or has a different interpretation to it than some of the rest of us (still waiting to hear on this one too).<br><br>Taken at face value Zappy could be construed to be an ObL fan-boy. I'm guessing he might not be, but his choice of language makes that assumption unclear too.<br><br><br><br>We all do what we do for the same reason: because it seems like a good idea at the time.

Oooooooooooh! An IMPLICATION? My bad indeed. How treacherous of me. And look at all those poor intimidated sissies that won't read the links now. Me big bad bully! Yup yup yup. Busted I am! <br><br>How about you stay off the crack before you tell anyone else what to stay on.<br><br>

<br><br>LOL Ah how refreshing<br>ANOTHER Karl Rove Moment<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

0<br><br>

You possibly made the most sense of anyone in this thread, with that statement.<br><br><br><br><br>Peace <br><br><br>but where will we be when the future comes?

I pay no attention to the, "you're either with us or you're with the terrorists"<br><br>It's pure garbage.<br><br>

<br>I'm well aware of that, but it's still a shabby ploy <br><br>It's just so typical. <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Just as typical as the vulgarity you just can't abandon. Same old same old from you. I may not buy Zappy's line, but at least I don't have to wade through hip-deep verbal waste to find his point. You might wanna try following the example of some of the "poor victims" you've come back to rescue. You might even earn some credibility from those you oppose.<br><br><br><br>And then again...maybe not. <br><br>

[censored] never told you WHY it happened.<br>It was all there in black and white, it's all still there now.<br><br>But did you look?<br><br>Nup... you fell right into calling me names and taking your<br>belittling little cheapshots.<br><br>I'm vulger?<br><br>Hey, you find t so amusing when FattMatt calls members<br>all manner or crap... you laugh and praise and defend him.<br>SkullDrugery <br>(look at his NAME itself... Skullduggery=Sneaky Troublemaker)<br>Oh you HOWL with delight as he heaps insults on me.<br><br>YOU ASS! He's been doing that all along, but you weren't<br>here to see it!<br>The day you came back, he went into that SICKENING Suck<br>up routine he goes through (like he did just this morning<br>DAMN! Makes you ...well... ME wanna gag! )<br><br>So, what?<br>Because I'm a WOMAN??? <br>I have to live up to MASTER STEVE-O'S EXPECTATIONS?<br><br>OH! BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD BAD ME! *runz away crying!* (NOT)<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Anytime you come down off that crack high of yours, I'll be waiting for you to substantiate just half of your claims. But something tells me it ain't gonna happen, because IMHO you're just too happy to keep the hate bubbling inside. I think you actually take comfort in your loathing. It's familar, and warm and quite possibly the only thing you have. Enjoy it. It's all yours.<br><br>

Look for yourself<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Hey, you find t so amusing when FattMatt calls members<br>all manner or crap... you laugh and praise and defend him.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I'm not FATT! . . . I'm just . . . big boned . . . <br><br>Anyway, not-too-slim-your-fatass-self, Steve has never "defended" nor found name-calling "amusing." I'm not speaking for Steve, but I tend to think it drives him away. Should I stop? Should I knock it off? Perhaps. But when your skanky self comes oozing in slingin' mud ... well, call me old-fashioned, but what's good for the Goose is good for the Gabby . . . <br><br>Now, you can either continue to be a fat chick with an attitude .. nah .. you'll always be a fat chick with an attitude, macjacattack.<br><br>

Stll waiting... *tapping fingers*<br><br>

Cheap Remarks STEVE-O?<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

I have to start cooking dinner.<br><br>If you care (really care) other than just taking cheap shots<br>it's up to you. You and Matt and Shrumrill all got roped<br>into a fight between me and SkullJob over him attacking<br>Cherry over the course of weeks.<br><br>I got angry when you started making nasty little digs<br>every time I'd make a post. <br><br>If you care, it's all there... Search back to when GOPMachine<br>joined using at least 5 sockpuppets.<br><br>I gotta go rattle potz & pans.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Looks like someone's needle is stuck-O.<br><br>

Good excuse. Pots, pans, sabres or cages. You rattle them all, but nothing palateble ever comes of it.<br><br>Bon Apetit...<br><br>

<br>Yep, still with the cheap comments.<br>looks like my needle isn't the only one stuck-o <br><br>OFF TOPIC:<br>If you have Turner Classic Movies<br>"It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World"<br><br>the 3 hour version<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>

Still ducking & dodging, eh? Well, I went back and took a look at a few of those threads you referred to -- cuz, I care, I really really care -- and STILL didn't see any support for your victimization claim (no surprise there). So unless you're busy watching Mad Mad Mad World (or were you just giving me your address?), maybe YOU could dig up some of that dirt you say is there. Or is this WMD II?<br><br>

"DAMN! Makes you ...well... ME wanna gag!"<br><br>Couldn't hurt. Maybe you'd lose a few. <br><br>And by the way, I won't refute we knocked heads, but I don't play hardball without being smacked around first. So, you can play your Miss Innocent all you want and point at me like I'm some kind of monster. <br><br>It doesn't change anything. You are indeed, a nasty, hate filled, poison hearted person. And you're one of the few people I will kick ass on sight. <br><br>I'm done now. You can go back to killing baby seals for your amusement.<br><br>