Remind us ....

Posted by: Zapata_

Remind us .... - 06/02/05 02:24 PM

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Posted by: Bryan

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 02:28 PM

To answer the first question of why we invaded Iraq....<br><br>Because everyone believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. It's a revisionist fantasy of the left that it was only George W. Bush. <br><br>Try again!<br><br>
Posted by: Mississauga

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 04:53 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Because everyone believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction.<p><hr></blockquote><p>That's one of the funniest/saddest statements I've read in quite a long time! Isn't that wool itchy yet?<br><br>- alec
Posted by: DLC

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 05:54 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> <br>Because everyone believed Saddam Hussein had weapons of mass destruction. <p><hr></blockquote><p>no only the neocon pinheads did !! or acted like they did.<br><br>did you see Russia, Germany, or France believe it ?<br>hell many Americans didn't .. their evidence was circumstantial and flawed from the beginning... that's why Bush never went back to the UN for approval... most of them didn't either.<br><br>sorry it was his flawed decision and I know for a fact (no guesses Bryan) he knew better and planned it from the fall of 2001 !! <br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 06:20 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>sorry it was his flawed decision and I know for a fact (no guesses Bryan) he knew better and planned it from the fall of 2001 !!<p><hr></blockquote><p>Ah yes . .the "secret inside CDC documents" that no one knows about ... Think of it: all our intelligence services had to do was drive to Atlanta and Dave could lay the whole thing out for them! <br><br>The fairy tale goes like this: Bill Kristol and his Dad, Irving, were having lunch with Prescott Bush and Hitler at the secret neocon bunker. It was 1991 and they were planning the overthrow of United States ... <br><br><br><br>****************<br>
Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 06:52 PM

Don't forget about those forged documents about the yellowcake from Niger! Or those balloon inflaters ... oooops, I mean mobile bio-weapons labs.<br><br>Because, hey, the whole world knew Iraq was brimming with wmd. Just fix the intelligence around the policy.<br><br>Who cares about 100,000+ dead Iraqi's - liberated from their lives. Or about the 8,000+ dead U.S. soldiers<br><br>60,000 imprisoned Iraqi's can't be wrong<br><br>No wonder 6,000 U.S. soldiers have deserted<br><br><br>But, hey, bushy is the messiah and you must, as a faithful follower, keep your head up his ass. Must be hard to breath, Of course the lack of oxygen to your brain does explain a lot.<br><br>So go ahead, bonehead, demonstrate once again that you have zero moral integrity. Period.<br><br>
Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 07:00 PM

The only revisionism is that one going on inside that little head of yours. Too bad your world is so tiny. You just can't deal with the reality.<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 07:10 PM

C'mon .. breath deeply Rx .. Yes .. that's what you think it is .. the sweet, sweet smell of a November reelection vic-tor-eeee ... A wholesale rejection of your Michael Moore, George Soros negative-spin machine.<br><br>There are plenty of liberals who don't like Geroge Bush and are able explain their points of view in thoughtful conversation .. then, there are liberals like you who give them a conspiritorial black-eye. What a shame. <br><br>Liberating the people of Iraq was the right thing to do. <br><br>****************<br>
Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 07:37 PM

I know you think you're god, but you are not.<br><br>Destroying Iraq was not the right thing to do.<br><br>Like I said, the lack of oxygen to your brain has once again been clearly demonstrated.<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 07:46 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I know you think you're god, but you are not.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Really? I never considered it .. Hmm .. Hmm .. Really? <br><br>This is easily strangest thing you've ever posted ... Entertaining .. but strange<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Destroying Iraq was not the right thing to do.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Recently, mass graves containing over 5,000 more Iraqi people were found. Yeah, freeing the people of Iraq was the right thing to do. Putting Saddam in the slammer was the right thing to do and exterminating his murderous sons .. yep .. the right thing to do. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Like I said, the lack of oxygen to your brain has once again been clearly demonstrated.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Interesting that you mention this. I've had a bout of bronchitis and was just in for a Doctor visit. We checked oxygen levels ... Perfect .. unfortunatley for you and your smallish theory .. <br><br><br><br>****************<br>
Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 08:10 PM

I don't doubt mass graves have been found. By both Saddams hand AND U.S. bombs. ~250,000 were bombed to death by the U.S. in '91, ~1,000,000 Iraqi's died as a result of the sanctions put in place by the U.S., 100,000+ Iraqi's have been killed by U.S. bombs, in this latest round. Plus, the Iran-Iraq war, which the U.S. armed both sides (with chemical weapons too!). So there is no doubt there are mass graves as a result of the policies of the good ol USA.<br><br>Yes sir, devastation is the new freedom <br><br>Anyway back to your delusions of grandeur, Yup, a real legend in your own mind you are.<br><br>Have a nice day! <br><br>
Posted by: Michael

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 09:51 PM

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Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Remind us .... - 06/02/05 11:14 PM

2001 - Powell (February 2001) and Rice (July 2001) declare Iraq has no WMD and is not a threat<br><br><EMBED SRC="http://personal.nbnet.nb.ca/sveniot/powell-rice-no-wmd-2001.mp3", WIDTH=100, HEIGHT=15 CONTROLLER=TRUE AUTOPLAY=TRUE loop=true><br><br>Let alone, the band of liars have been around since the other bush admin. They don't just die, when they are out of office and many remain in important positions within the gov.<br><br>And what about those forged documents - yellowcake/Niger? Now if the case was sooooo solid, why would there be a need to forge documents? Or cherry pick data from intelligence, with no qualifiers? Etc.<br>.........<br><br>http://www.downingstreetmemo.com/<br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 03:41 AM

For those of your who haven't read my posts before - I have 3 friends at CDC in a special unit- they were told in the fall of 2001 to be ready for an invasion of Iraq in 2003. They were working on biological tests that could be critical if they were needed. They were told the exact date of the invasion. One of them eas a GOPer and strong Bush supporter in 2000. All 3 independently told me this, and each didn't know the other had confided in me.<br><br>The point is like the UK memo also states and the myriad of evidence of all the hyped BS before the war about WMDs (yellowcake, Al tubes, bioweapons trucks, drone planes, and on and on which all turned out to be FALSE) that W had decided long ago to invade Iraq and take Saddam out.. all the rhetoric and BS leading up to the invasion in 2002-3, and his repeated remarks "I haven't made a decision" were all LIES and coverup.<br><br>So YES- it's real - it's true - but there is so much evidence under everyones noses... it's obvious they preplanned this to anyone but the most lock step lemmings of the neocon section of the GOP. THAT fact will be further validated in the future just like the Deep Throat revelation a few days ago.<br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: TheGreatDivide

straight in the face, blunt, no deals - 06/03/05 05:50 AM

I have a newspaper that states on stardate (not mandate) Sept. 28, 2001<br>"Vice Pres Chey stated there is no connection to Saddumb and the WTC destruction... "<br><br>dugh, unless Saddumb and his playboy minions were making dough off the WTC like the costranosa's 2mil a year from waste management...<br><br>that's another story<br>something tells me in my soul<br>all souls true need not cheat<br><br>X
Posted by: DLC

Re: straight in the face, blunt, no deals - 06/03/05 06:06 AM

but yet they tried to float that connection during all the BS build up to the invasion..<br><br>that's what's so obvious... if you examine ALL their statements (From 9/11/2001 until the invasion and after it was apparent no WMDs were going ot be found) they're one contradition and lie after another... <br><br>only neocon stooges can not see that by now.<br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 10:34 AM

So if I understand you correctly, you have three friends who leaked insanely sensitive and top secret information to you about an upcoming invasion, putting at risk thousands of American lives?<br><br>Nice tratiors you got there. Good to know our men and women in the armed forces can rely on their lives being risked by these A-holes. <br><br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 10:42 AM

"Destroying Iraq was not the right thing to do."<br><br>Zap, where have you been?<br>According to a UNICEF report at the end of 2003, more than 3 1/2 million children had been immunized.<br><br>UNICEF says that as of April, 2004, more than 2,500 schools have been renovated with the goal of 4,000 being completed by the end of the year, but 10,000 more need repair.<br><br>In a November, 2003 interview on National Public Radio, Andrew Natsios of the U.S. Agency for International Development said that the port at Umm Qasar, Iraq's largest, is modern and functioning for the first time in 20 years.<br><br>Because of disrepair and looting, it took a lot of work to get hospitals back up to speed but according to James Haverman, the Coalition Provisional Authority Senior Advisor to the Iraqi Ministry of Health, all 240 hospitals in Iraq as well as 2400 primary health care clinics were operating as of December, 2003.<br><br>On March 8, 2004, an interim constitution that defines Iraq as being "federal, democratic and pluralist" was signed by members of the Iraqi Governing Council<br><br>According to Human Rights Watch, Iraqi girls and women have enjoyed comparatively more rights than in some of the other countries of the Middle East.<br>The Iraqi Constitution of 1970 included women's rights for voting, attending school, owning property, and running for office.<br>Still, the status of women in Iraq has not always been the best because of other cultural and economic factors such as the aftermath of the 1991 war and economic sanctions.<br>School attendance for girls has not been prohibited although more boys than girls have been enrolled, especially in rural areas.<br><br>Not only are U.S. soldiers demonstrating field sanitation and hand washing, but UNICEF is conducting an active health education program to improve personal hygiene and promote more hand washing<br><br><br>Zap, you are so typical of this 'Sky is falling' crap. Iraq is so much better now than before we went there. But because Bush is sooooooo bad, that means that NOTHING America does can be good. (rolling eyes)<br><br>The truth of the matter is that we are doing a good job over there and it makes you crazy. Sorry buddy. Sucks to be you.<br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 10:54 AM

Leaving behind your criticism of Zap, I agree with your point about debating the Iraq War. America has done some great things in Iraq, but the argument nearly always centers between partisans on some irrelevant scale between the good and bad things that have happened in the country.<br><br>That's really an unproductive argument to have people some people are bound to ignore the condition of any particular group of Iraqi citizens depending on whether they are doing well, or deceased. Iraq as an issue is so much more than just some sick game between good and bad things.<br><br>I am personally disappointed (polite for pissed off) with the Bush Administration's behavior regarding Iraq. Nonetheless, I have friends who have been there whom I worry for and am kind of proud of. They have the difficult job of trying to make good of an effed up situation. So it's a tough position to sit in because the military is doing good things as good as they can, but they should have never been put in that situation.<br><br>Anyhow, I suppose that my point is that a debate about whether or not America is trying to, or accomplishing good things in Iraq (with the exception of Abu Ghraib) is not a debate at all because we are probably agreed all around. But a debate about the conditions, purposes, and comparative virtue of our entrance into Iraq, or the Bush Administration's management of the whole process is the real barn-burner.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 11:00 AM

Thanks for your even tempered response. <br><br>I'm pretty touchy about supporting our men and women over there and don't like it when something minimizes their sacrifice.<br><br>But to your last statement, it's a never ending debate, really. Nobody has changed their position on it, that I know of. As for me, the deed has been done. Debating about it after the fact won't accomplish much. It's just a passtime.<br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 11:16 AM

No problem... I'm always looking for common ground.<br><br>As to the ongoing-ness of the debate though, I think it is still relevant today. Sure, a lot of it is just people like me still pissed off and wanting to complain, but there have been a lot of administration actions to fan our fires. Look at the promotions and retentions of Alberto Gonzales, Donald Rumsfeld, and Condi Rice, and John Bolton. None of these people have been held responsible for some indefensible failures in the administration, but instead got promotions. I think that's something worth getting upset about.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 11:29 AM

There we part ways. I won't white wash (I'm not racists ) the things that have happened that I disagree with, but considering what's been accomplished while putting up with the Dems, Libs, and out right lies of the slanted media, I belive the administration did a great job. <br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 11:40 AM

You have to remember that Iraq did have WOMD. And the US knew they had them becaue they kept the receipts from the time of sale. Interestingly enough, Saddam was able to dispose of those weapons before the inspections who knows where. Maybe he gave them to the Russians? Well, that doesn't really matter. The idea is that the US sold them the WOMD and then blamed them for having such weapons. Interesting strategy....<br><br>_________________________________________<br>Just a different kinda geek...
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 11:44 AM

that's a twist. <br>Haven't you said in other posts Iraq never had WMD's?<br><br>Now you're saying they did have them? <br><br>Smoke'n those Moose hair cigs again, huh?<br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 11:56 AM

I don't mean to belabor the point here, but really?<br><br>Let's start from the top. The Bush Administration initially took money away from Afghanistan (where special forces were chasing Osama bin Laden) to prepare for Iraq in contradiction of Congress's budget supplement. Then they relied heavily on mis-information from Ahmed Chalabi and sent in too few American troops, against the advice of Colin Powel (the only senior Administration official with military command experience) and General Shinseki, resulting in a violent occupation. Donald Rumsfeld later infamously declared you "go to war with the army you have" in response to complaints that the military was under-prepared. They awarded out millions in contracts to companies (such as Haliburton) who either pocketed or "lost" the money.<br><br>I'll just stop there because I think it makes my point. All in all, our men and women in Iraq have had to deal with all this. I would never argue that they do a bad job. I would however decry the administration for putting them through all of this so poorly and avoiding responsibility for their disastrous decisions.<br><br>Ughhhh.... I'm getting all worked up now. Let's talk about something else. <br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey<br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 12:13 PM

no, skul - they told me this last summer, a few months before the election - the invasion was well over with then - NO one was at risk.<br>If they'd told me before the invasion we all could be in Federal Pen.<br><br>Don't know if they still could get in trouble - probably so with as vindictive and tyrannical this administration is. But they know I'll never divulge their names.<br><br>BTW there were a few dozen here at CDC who were told - their jobs required it.- they had deadlines to meet. That is why they were told.<br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 12:30 PM

"Ughhhh.... I'm getting all worked up now. Let's talk about something else"<br><br>I just got my first batch of DVD's from Netflix. Took darn long enough! I rented the animated Clone Wars because of the good reviews other gave here, but I wasn't all that impressed. It was mostly battles and light saber fights. eh...<br><br>I also rented Formula 51. I could tell they wanted it to be like Snatch or Lock Stock and Two Smoking Barrels. They missed the mark by a loooooooong shot.<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 01:00 PM

Good clip!<br><br>****************<br>
Posted by: DLC

Skul...... - 06/03/05 02:01 PM

no comment about those knowing 18 months befiore the invasion it was "On" ?<br><br> Skul... I swear it's true... <br><br>one was a Bush supporter in 2000. I didn't ask how he voted in 2004. Not my business.<br><br>kinda blows GW's excuses doesn't it! ?<br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 03:01 PM

The question is, where have you been?<br><br>Daily living conditions in Iraq dismal, UN survey finds<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>12 May 2005 Daily living conditions in Iraq are dismal, with families suffering from intermittent water and electricity supply, chronic malnutrition among children and more illiterate young than ever before, a new report by the United Nations Development Programme (UNDP) and the Iraqi Government shows.<p><hr></blockquote><p>http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=14255&Cr=Iraq&Cr1=<br><br><br>Living conditions in Iraq 'tragic'<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>2004 Survey reveals 85% of Iraqi households lack stable electricity, 54% have access to clean water.<p><hr></blockquote><p>http://www.middle-east-online.com/english/?id=13481<br><br><br><br><br>Conditions in Iraq Are Worse Than a Year Ago<br>Published July 2004<br><br>http://www.larouchepub.com/other/2004/3125iraq_firsthand.html<br><br><br><br>And you talk about the sky falling, back up to 2002-2003. Don't tell me you've forgotten already. Yup real good job, alright. Just stay in your bomb shelter! <br><br><br>http://www.informationclearinghouse.info<br><br>
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 09:17 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> Liberating the people of Iraq was the right thing to do. <br><p><hr></blockquote><p><br>I agree with you there.<br><br>But please answer this: if it was the right thing to do, why didn't Bush sell that as the reason to invade Iraq? Why were the lies about WMDs and threats of terror used as the sales pitch instead?<br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Remind us .... - 06/03/05 10:10 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But please answer this: if it was the right thing to do, why didn't Bush sell that as the reason to invade Iraq?<p><hr></blockquote><p>He did. On September 12, 2002, at the United Nations, Bush told the world:<br><br><blockquote>"If the Iraqi regime wishes peace it will immediately end all illicit trade outside the oil-for-food program. It will accept UN administration of funds from that program to ensure that the money is used fairly and promptly for the benefit of the Iraqi people. If all these steps are taken, it will signal a new openness and accountability in Iraq, and it could open the prospect of the United Nations helping to build a government that represents all Iraqis."</blockquote><br><br>Weren't you listening? I was. Of course, this won't be found on michaelmoore.com. It doesn't fit in with the conspiracy theories. <br><br>But Bush also continued with the more urgent message, which started rolling out of the White House under Bill Clinton, that Saddam Hussein had to be removed. In March '03, Bush said:<br><br><blockquote>"We are now acting because the risks of inaction would be far greater. In one year, or five years, the power of Iraq to inflict harm on all free nations would be multiplied many times over. With these capabilities, Saddam Hussein and his terrorist allies could choose the moment of deadly conflict when they are strongest. We choose to meet that threat now, where it arises, before it can appear suddenly in our skies and cities."</blockquote><br><br>I agree. I agreed then and I agree now. I agreed with Clinton when he said it in '98.<br><br>****************<br>
Posted by: DLC

Re: Remind us .... - 06/04/05 04:15 PM

Funny how the far right demonize Clinton on one hand - he's beelzebulb in the flesh and when it convenient - use him as a credible source on the other..<br><br>are you saying Clinton was a good President ?<br> <br><br>the truth is Matt - 5 - FIVE whole years had transpired when Clinton said that and when we invaded - <br>PLUS Clinton didn't have access to the latest intelligence like W had... so using that quote is about like citing a 1968 quote from George Wallace on racism and saying that was his belief before he died.... times change and so do people's perspectives.<br><br><br>David (OFI)<br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Remind us .... - 06/04/05 07:13 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Funny how the far right demonize Clinton on one hand<p><hr></blockquote><p>Demonize? I'm not demonizing Clinton. I'm saying he shouldn't have lied to a Federal Grand Jury. That's demonizing him? I'm saying that his taking advantage of a 22 year old intern (then lying about it) offended millions of people in this country, and that they had every right to be offended, no matter how much sneering and jeering liberals do to them. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>are you saying Clinton was a good President ?<p><hr></blockquote><p>I voted for Clinton. I liked Clinton on a lot of issues ... His character sucks. He fscked up and still, to this very day, blames in on everyone else. Sure, in one breath he'll admit he made a mistake, but it's always followed by a seething comment of how others were out to get him. Always. Uh-huh. <br><br>****************<br>