Kill Them All in Custers Memory

Posted by: Anonymous

Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/18/05 07:48 PM

It was the 29th day of the Moon of Popping Trees (December) in 1890. Peace was sleeping within the warm winter wind under the murderous eyes of Gatling and Hotchkiss guns, dug into the ridges surrounding the Lakota encampment. Chief Spotted Elk ("Bigfoot" was the name soldiers gave him), flying the flag of truce within his encampment, was dying from pneumonia. <br><br>His people were dying from fear of the white soldiers who had come to take revenge for the defeat of their unit, the 7th Cavalry, at Little Bighorn in The Moon When the Chokecherries are Ripe (June) in 1876. All the soldiers needed was the smallest excuse to begin the massacre.<br><br>A single shot, according to a reporter on the scene, was fired from the soldiers, and with that, the smallest excuse was manufactured. When the rain of ammunition ceased, over 300 Lakota people lay dead from gunfire, cannon fire, or manual butchering within the encampment and within adjacent ravines up to two miles away. <br><br>The dead were Lakota men who had been disarmed before the weapons fire began, women, many with babes in arms or waiting to be born, and children The soldiers walked away from their crime against humanity and left the dead where they lay. That night, the sky cried snow and the warm winter wind of peace was supplanted by the cold winter wind of grief. For four days, the dead laid where they were, frozen into grotesque shapes of lifelessness. <br><br>Finally, the soldiers came and loaded the dead like cordwood in wagons, and hauled their loads to hastily dug mass graves, where the dead were thrown in - the bodies of men, women, and children whose spirits walked the encampment and ravines, wailing. <br><br>The mass graves were filled and the soldiers left. Twenty-seven Congressional Medals of Honor [sic] for "bravery" were awarded to the soldiers who participated in that heinous murder for their parts in fighting the allegedly hostile "war parties" attacking them that day.<br><br>The spirits of the slain continue their walking and wailing. Red Willow in great profusion, grown from the blood of all those who fell along the banks of the creek that day, still grows thickly along Wounded Knee Creek. Peace never again slept within the winds that blew along Wounded Knee Creek.<br><br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/18/05 08:10 PM

And your point is?<br><br>I mean, I could post excerpts from the Diary of Anne Frank if you want. <br><br>
Posted by: newkojak

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/19/05 11:46 AM

I think both of you would be doing a disservice to those who died in the American Indian genocide and the Holocaust, should you attempt to get into a contest to see who had it worse. The point of stories like that about Little Bighorn is to give another view (perhaps more accurate) than that given in grade school textbooks all around this country that rationalize and even worse moralize these shameful conflicts.<br><br>The lesson learned here is not necessarily that modern Americans, generations removed, are responsible or guilty for the slaughter of American Indians, it's that we can't ignore these attributes in our shared history. When we look the other way on any kind of abuse, during any period of time, we're making it okay to happen again.<br><br>...and it did happen when America turned away boatloads of Jewish refugees before World War II. It happened again in Rwanda. It's happening again in Darfur, Sudan. The point isn't that we feel bad or guilty about what happened before, it's that we do something about what's happening right now.<br><br>-- Charlie Alpha Roger Yankee Whiskey
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/19/05 03:59 PM

Thank you, that is exactly the point. Education<br><br>No one can change the past but we can learn from it and maybe not<br>make the same mistakes again.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/19/05 10:29 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The point isn't that we feel bad or guilty about what happened before,<p><hr></blockquote><p>That's exactly his point. Why else would he mention it? There's not a single person alive today responsible for or affected by the slaughter of Native Americans. It's an attention-getting ploy to transfer victim status from one generation to the next, and I called him out on it. <br><br>
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 06:27 AM

Read CrazyEye's reply. Although the constant barrage can be annoying, the point is if we don't learn from history, we are doomed to repeat it.<br><br>You are free to disagree, but then again, ask yourself, what's the point of posting anything in the political soapbox. Most of the time we don't know the people involved, so why bother?<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 06:49 AM

he says his point is education and he agrees with NK's point saying as much. why would you want to change his intent?<br><br>EDIT: i hadn't hit refresh since early this morning. i guess hayesk already said as much. <br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by sean on 02/20/05 09:51 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 06:56 AM

With all due respect, if the purpose of these posts are to educate in the name of preventing future debacles, then a more balanced presentation of information is important. CE's posts are presented from one POV only as if only his words have any relevance. We all know that every story has two sides, and the truth is usually somewhere in the middle. So post a link. Name a source. Point people toward additional resources. Not that it's that hard to do your own research, but it's a way of showing some confidence in your own information.<br><br>I don't think that's too much to ask. Jeez, even TGD does that much!<br><br>
Posted by: TheGreatDivide

Educate them all before the future falls. - 02/20/05 07:02 AM

I feel generous in blogging today...<br><br>http://www.google.com/search?q=american+indian+death+toll+1800<br><br>generation x generation<br>that's how this datamined game is played<br>read into Choicepoint and realize the plastic lie<br>the loophole and weak link<br><br>http://www.google.com/search?q=subcultures<br><br>No body seemed to have been warned properly during these past few decades...<br>of man's incompetence to coexist as kings shedding blood only on ball fields<br>no child's blood on their hands<br>female queens symbols of beauty and earth<br>suffer you evangelicals<br>the swords are raised <br>we are fire-proof now as you sink to your knees<br>up to your knees in lies and bills<br>yah heard <br>now come clean<br>stop disrespecting where you came from<br>her hand our food<br>Earth rights<br>her heart beats the loudest<br>hear it booming from above?<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 08:13 AM

Well, Crazy Eye is as free to post his drivel as we are ours. By taking issue with it I don't mean he should be silenced, I'm just forcefully disagreeing. <br><br>My point is this: no one should feel the least bit of guilt or shame toward anyone over the slaughter of Native Americans during the conquering of present-day America. We had nothing to do with it. So telling us to 'not let it happen again' is a waste of time, because we didn't let it happen the first time. <br><br>For months, people have ignored Crazy Eye's and The Great Divide's posts....time to jump in and let the fur fly!<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 08:24 AM

then the response should provide a different perspective on the story or scenario that CE presented rather than attacking his intent. <br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 09:12 AM

I agree, but as Sean said, the content should be discussed, not his reason for posting.<br><br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 09:58 AM

Honestly, I don't see any reason why motive should be off-limits. If a post is driven by an agenda good or bad that agenda is as valid a discussion point as the content of the post itself. And in what voice or spirit a reply is rendered is also fair game. Proof that ya can't please nobody not none of the time, dangit! <br><br>
Posted by: Zapata_

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 10:04 AM

Reminds me of Falluja<br><br>How The U.S. Murdered a City <br><br>Fallujah: The Truth at Last <br><br>Doctor Salam Ismael took aid to Fallujah last month. This is a report of his visit.<br><br>02/17/05 - "SW" - IT WAS the smell that first hit me, a smell that is difficult to describe, and one that will never leave me. It was the smell of death. Hundreds of corpses were decomposing in the houses, gardens and streets of Fallujah. Bodies were rotting where they had fallen-bodies of men, women and children, many half-eaten by wild dogs. <br><br>A wave of hate had wiped out two-thirds of the town, destroying houses and mosques, schools and clinics. This was the terrible and frightening power of the US military assault. <br><br>The accounts I heard over the next few days will live with me forever. You may think you know what happened in Fallujah. But the truth is worse than you could possibly have imagined.<br><br>more <br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 10:15 AM

Oh yah. The ONE AND ONLY truth, right? Convenient.<br><br>Collateral damage is wrong and terrible. Civilians ordinary men, women, and children being cut down like that is unacceptable. I think we agree on that. So why not post pages of gruesome photos of more innocents blasted to dust by the insurgents in Iraq? Why not post pics of unsuspecting citizens being cut down or vaporized by terrorists all over the world? <br><br>Oh wait a minute! You're educating us. And here I though I smelled one of those agenda-thingies. Silly me. <br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 10:54 AM

nice sarcasm, but any "education" he/she is preaching is falling on deaf ears it appears.<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> So why not post pages of gruesome photos of more innocents blasted to dust by the insurgents in Iraq? Why not post pics of unsuspecting citizens being cut down or vaporized by terrorists all over the world? <p><hr></blockquote><p>i can't tell you if she/he was trying to educate or inform or complain or what, but the reason i tend to focus on our actions is not for simple education; rather, it's because our gov't that we elect can control our military actions -- we don't control the decision being made on the other side of the battle.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 11:58 AM

Sarcasm? Sean, I asked a legitimate question. It has nothing to do with who controls the actions of whom. I don't condone the non-combatant/civilian deaths we've caused in Iraq or Afghanistan, either, for that matter. But it seems there are those that are quite content to pardon whatever the insurgents or terrorists do as long as it provides a chance to proclaim how thoroughly evil the U.S. is.<br><br>The actions of the U.S. military may seem heavy-handed to those of us far-removed from the battle field, but I dare-say the actions of the insurgents have been overtly murderous and without any regard whatsoever for human life. In fact, I'd love to hear MacTeak's take on this.<br><br>Deaf ears. Blind eyes. Whatever is convenient, eh?<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 12:48 PM

While we strive to educate ourselves so that these events will never happen again<br>the fact is that while we are "educated" and we have said it will never happen again<br>these events are still happening, case in point, the story of Wounded Knee did not<br>end in 1890, it is still going on today. The heavy handed government is still<br>committing acts of terrorism against the Native Peoples.<br><br>Chronology of Oppression At Pine Ridge<br><br>Pamphlet: Victims of Progress, Early Fall 1977, p. 8-9.<br>Author: Anonymous<br>Re: Reign of Terror 1973-1976<br><br>December 1890<br>Massacre of 350 women, children and men near Wounded Knee on the Pine Ridge Indian Reservation, considered the last "official" massacre of Indians by U.S. forces.<br><br>January 1972<br>Raymond Yellow Thunder, a dignified older man, was harassed, beaten, tortured and humiliated before a crowd at an American Legion Dance and finally murdered in Gordon, Nebraska.<br><br>January 21, 1973<br>Wesley Bad Heart Bull, knifed in chest after an earlier fight with the same man and after a bartender in Buffalo Gap put a bounty on his life. His killer was charged with second-degree manslaughter and finally acquitted.<br><br>April 1973<br>Glen Three Stars, a known goon, and Tote (John) Richards, also a goon, assaulted Hobart Keith, member of the tribal council, active in the impeachment effort.<br><br>April 17, 1973<br>Frank Clearwater (47, from Cherokee, N.C.) was sitting in the church building during the Wounded Knee Liberation; he was unarmed. A bullet crashed through the wall and tore out a substantial part of his skull and brain. He died April 25th.<br><br>April 27, 1973<br>Buddy Lamont, forced from a bunker in Wounded Knee, coughing and choking because of CS gas, was slammed with a heavy burst of machine gun fire and killed.<br><br>June 1973<br>Clarence Cross and his brother Vernal were shot by BIA police while they slept in a car parked by the side of the road. Clarence died, and Vernal, who was also injured, was charged with his murder. For over a year, he was followed, harassed and attacked by BIA police, goon squad and FBI.<br><br>July 29, 1973<br>At Manderson, Pine Ridge - Curtis Ghost struck with a club by off duty BIA policeman, Jonathan Twist. Minutes later 2 BIA policemen arrived, grabbed Ghost and put him in a car. They also knocked down and beat Leo White Hawk. Cathy Eagle Hawk (8 Months Pregnant) was maced in the face by Twist. Harassment because of their identification with AIM.<br><br>August 31, 1973<br>Hearing confirmed the fact that WKLD/OC had been under constant surveillance since its National Meeting Memorial weekend at the Imperial 400 Hotel in Rapid City. 48 out of a total of 54 S.D. FBI agents were in Rapid City at that time.<br><br>October 12, 1973<br>Jailing of James Romero and the Miguel family of Phoenix, Arizona--racist move by FBI to brainwash American public that AIM is a plot to disrupt matters in the local community. <br><br> <br><br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 01:07 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Sarcasm?<p><hr></blockquote><p><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> Oh wait a minute! You're educating us. And here I though I smelled one of those agenda-thingies. Silly me. <p><hr></blockquote><p>who is condoning the actions of the insurgents and terrorists? terrorism is always wrong and i don't even try to compare our actions with theirs. i don't think the U.S. is evil, but i also think that our "go it nearly alone" and "bring em on" actions are pretty easy to have interpreted as evil by people in the middle east, which is crummy when we're trying to win hearts and minds. i want us to succeed and i want to see iraq turn out as an ally instead of as a friend of iran (though, this doesn't bode well given the guy who is likely to be the next prime minister of iraq) . . . in any regard, i don't see anyone defend the terrorism around here. <br><br>i think we'll see republicans and democrats support the efforts in iraq from this point forward. of course we all want success in iraq, but that doesn't mean that we won't speak out against those actions that can hamper our efforts at success.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 01:41 PM

Ah yes, hearts & minds. Tell ya what, as far as the Iraqi people are concerned your average citizen I think we have won some hearts & minds. The relative success of the elections is an indication of that. There would have been no such thing had we not taken Saddam out of power. Forget the BS about WMD and ties to 9/11. Removing him from power goes on the plus side of the column even if we didn't go in under the most credible of reasons.<br><br>Was Fallujah overkill? Maybe. I'm in no position to judge. But how many civilian lives have been lost to the indescriminate attacks of insurgents who are largely NOT Iraqis? The hearts and minds that we've absolutely not won are those of the hardline muslim extemists who have yearned for decades to destroy everything the U.S. embodies! And I doubt we ever will short of swearing off Wall Street and totally embracing their doctrine.<br><br>But nobody wants to add the slaughter rought by the terrorists the the balance sheet. And I'm not even talking a/b U.S. casualties. I'm talking about Iraqis fer chrissakes!<br><br>No, I'm not accusing anyone of being a terrorist cheerleader. But I'm sure as hell saying that the refusal by some to admit that there are two sides contributing to the current conflict is as good as excusing terror.<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 02:16 PM

i largely agree with that. i think the only thing that is really unknown is who the enemy is . . . whether it's insurgents who just want us gone or mostly outside terrorists is not really common knowledge; though, i think the chatter tends to point to sympathizers of saddam and iraqi nationalists. i wonder whether average iraqis think that the insurgents and terrorists are merely wreaking havoc because we're there (thus, they see us as a negative) or whether average iraqis think that the insurgents and terrorists are worse than the U.S. i have no idea, but no perceptions would surprise me.<br><br>--<br>Straw-man rhetorical techniques are the practice of refuting weaker arguments than one's opponents offer. 2 "set up a straw man" or "set up a straw-man argument" is 2 create a position easily refuted, then attribute that position to your opponent.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/20/05 02:55 PM

I have no doubt that there are Iraqi's who want the insurgency over. And just as many that want it over but blame our presence there for it. Probably some that support the insurgents unconditionally, too. But concerning the nationalists and former supporters, my guess is that the "out-of-towners" have done a very good job of exploiting their desire for payback, and used it to further their own cause.<br><br>It's a freakin' mess over their because of our actions. But had we stayed out, it would just be another kind of mess, and thousands would still be dying.<br><br>
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: Kill Them All in Custers Memory - 02/21/05 10:40 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>While we strive to educate ourselves so that these events will never happen again<br>the fact is that while we are "educated" and we have said it will never happen again<br>these events are still happening,<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Educated in everything except human nature, it seems.<br><br>