The new america

Posted by: nutty

The new america - 10/23/04 08:11 AM

<br><br>Riding the subway in san francisco is now like being in a police state.<br><br>"No specific threats have been reported to BART or any other transit agency, but authorities don't want to take any chances, said BART Police Chief Gary Gee."<br><br>link<br><br>Keep the populace in fear, this keeps you in charge.<br><br>yeah america.<br><br>I would rather die free than live in fear, and without liberty.
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 11:29 AM

we have very different reactions. when a decked out police officer stepped into the DC subway/metro when I was coming home last week, I was very glad. I'd rather that they be around that not be around. Sure, it's a little unnerving to be driving if a cop is directly behind you, but you can be pretty sure that people are going to be driving reeeeal nice for that portion of the trip. I can understand your reaction, but don't share it personally.<br><br>neye<br><br>
Posted by: nutty

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 12:02 PM

when no threat has been seen why send the para military into civilian centers? I am so shocked by the accepted loss of freedoms and military state the US has become since 9/11. Yes the attack was beyond anything we have ever dealt with, but our swing to the opposite side of liberty is not the correct path, IMHO<br><br>I would rather die free than live in fear, and without liberty.
Posted by: garyW

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 12:21 PM

I see both sides of this arguement as valid, but what exactly do these armed police do that constitutes "accepted loss of freedoms" besides not being able to tag or pee on the subway?<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 12:37 PM

It's been this way in NYC ever since 9/11. Subways, buses, Grand Central and Penn stations, the airports. Frankly, I miss it in Florida. Granted, TriRail uses armed Wakenhut security guards as conductors but they're only carrying handguns, not the heavy arsenals seen in other major cities. Not that I'd expect Boca or Ft. Lauderdale to be attractive terror targets, but you never know...<br><br>A show of force is always a good deterrant, and in these cases, no one'e freedome is being compromised. In fact, it's being protected.<br><br>
Posted by: Biggerfoot

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 01:12 PM

Thanks for those that protect us as Nutty's photo illustrates. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Walrus

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 01:57 PM

Speaking of Police State...<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 02:03 PM

heya Nutty, my response is mostly consistent with GaryW's - I don't feel like any freedom is being lost by having them there, and like Steve wrote, I actually feel better. If I felt that freedom was being limited by them being there, then I'd sympathize with your POV more, but as it is, I feel like the only thing being limited is the likelyhood for bad things to be happening to me while on the subway!<br><br>neye<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 03:03 PM

I remember having lunch in a nice sunny plaza in New York one day, when suddenly the place was surrounded by people in body armor, holding assault guns, with big dogs on leashes and a military-looking helicopter hovering overhead. Everyone ignored it, except for us rubes, who felt distincly unnerved by the whole thing. I guess that if the show of force had been in response to something specific, I would feel that I was being protected, but what the people we spoke to in the plaza said was that the shows of force took place at random, and not in response to any news or incident. That makes me feel less safe, to tell the truth. It seems just exactly a show of force without the substance. It's a hard balance to strike, I guess.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 03:49 PM

What you witnessed wasn't all that random. The NYPD's anti-terror and tactical teams execute these unexpected maneuvers in what are called "sub-strategic" locations all over manhattan and other boroughs as an added deterrant. It's a way to demostrate to those with nasty ideas that the PD is also quite capable of showing up where and when you least expect them.<br><br>Yes, it can be unsettling if you've never seen it before, but it's a reliable tactic. I've seen it several times in Manhattan, and even in front of a small neighborhood synagogue in Brooklyn during a normal Saturday AM shul.<br><br>Kinda like that old joke:<br>Joe: What's that symbol on the wall for?<br>Bob: Keeps the elephants away.<br>Joe: Elephents? There ain't no elephants in Kansas!<br>Bob: SEE?<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: SlapLeather

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 04:11 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Keep the populace in fear, this keeps you in charge.<br><br>yeah america.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Early voting brings cries of bullying<br><br>According to the affidavits Fletcher released:<br><br>One woman who voted early in Boca Raton, at the Southwest County Regional Library, complained that as she stood in line, two men behind her were "trashing our president," Fletcher said, declining to identify the woman. She tried to ignore them. Then the man touched her arm and said, "Who are you voting for?" <br><br>"I said, `I don't think that's an appropriate question,'" the woman said she responded.<br><br>"Uh oh! We have a Bush supporter here," screamed the man behind her.<br><br>For the 2 1/2 hours she had to wait in line, she was heckled by the man. As they neared the voting room, someone in the rear of the line yelled, "I sure hope everyone here is voting for Kerry!" she reported.<br><br>That's when the man behind her held his hand over her head and screamed, "We have a Republican right here!" There were "boos and jeers" from the crowd.<br><br>"I felt intimidated, harassed and threatened!" the woman wrote in her complaint to the Republican Party.<br><br>Elaine Fandino complained to the Republican Party that she took her mother to vote on South Military Trail in Palm Beach County and was confronted by 25 people supporting John Kerry for president. The crowd was "very angry and used foul language," she reported. She said the man next to her said, "Where's my shotgun?"<br><br>In Broward County, at the regional library in Pembroke Pines, a voter complained that Kerry supporters used abusive language about President Bush and had signs and banners within 50 feet of the entrance.<br><br>Kerry supporters were "shoving anti-Bush propaganda at us," complained the voter, who said he shouted back "Vote President Bush!"<br><br>A woman who voted in Plantation at the West Regional Courthouse said she was offended to see five or six people with "huge stick on badges" for Kerry/Edwards, standing near the voting machines.<br><br>"Never in all the years of voting do we remember being allowed to show a badge or poster or literature while inside the area where the voters are standing ready to cast their vote," she wrote.<br><br>Juan D'Arce of Miami complained to the Republicans that he tried early voting in downtown Miami. He was wearing a Bush pin, but he couldn't stand the taunting, so he turned away and did not vote.<br><br>Howard Sherman complained about his voting experience at North Shore Branch Library in Miami-Dade County. He found a crowd of Kerry supporters blocking the door.<br><br>"They were positioned directly in front of the entrance to the library in such a manner that it would be impossible to avoid them while entering the polling place," he reported.<br><br>Sherman said he tried to slip through the thinnest part of the crowd, but a woman in a Kerry T-shirt grabbed his arm and asked if he was voting for Kerry.<br><br>"I seem to recall from civics class that this sort of electioneering is illegal," Sherman complained to the Republicans.<br><br>Republican Lawrence Gottfried, who became a poll watcher in Delray Beach after what he thought was inappropriate behavior at the polls, said the things he saw upset him.<br><br>Gottfried said that while working at the Delray poll, actor Danny DeVito and his wife, actress Rhea Perlman, showed up. Gottfried is a fan, but he didn't ask for an autograph.<br><br>"I said, `Look Mr. DeVito, I'm a big fan of yours and Rhea's, but you are blocking the entrance. You're campaigning, you've got a Kerry-Edwards button on, and it's not appropriate."<br><br>Gottfried, who used to be a Democrat, said the things he saw were "ridiculous."<br><br>"There is a time for partisanship and it's OK to have a different point of view, but don't violate the sanctity of the polling area," he said. <br><br><br><br><br>got to let your eyes adjust
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:24 PM

But of course, similar tactics aren't being employed by Bush supporters. Oh no no no no... That would never happen. <br><br>Unfortunately, it stinks up the polls no matter who does it or where it happens. But it does happen. Perhaps not as blatantly as the media would have us think after all, hyperbole ensures ratings and readership but it does happen.<br><br>But more to the point, your story has what to do with freedom? The story is about supporters of the wannabe administration hassling voters. Not quite the same thing as gov't-employed thugs intimidating voters.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:31 PM

I believe you won't find anyone here who condones, approves, or encourages the behavior described in the article. I'm not too sure what it has to do with the subject matter of the thread, though.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:35 PM

Funny thing . . . no elephants in PA either <br><br>I'll tell you one thing, I wish we had some of those folks standing guard on street corners in my town. The latest event is the aftermath of the last home invasion episode, in which one guy was shot dead by an invader. The cops actually caught one of the criminals because a man who had been in the invaded house identified him. Well, last week that same man who helped the cops was in the drive-up window of the Macdonald's just four blocks from my house, blocked in back and in front by other cars waiting in line, when six hooded men surrounded his car, and one of them shot the man dead.<br><br>It's open warfare here, folks.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:37 PM

Well, you know... ice cream has no bones, therefore the momentum of a given stenerator will almost always react in a posilute way against the Fanotney rod, provided the hierarchal levels have been synchronized.<br><br><br>Right? <br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:41 PM

If the intersection of the aporetic nonsequitur and the fallacious syllogism inscribes a discursively potent practice, then let be be finale of seem.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:42 PM

I've said this before: I felt safer in NYC than I do in Boca. No sh!t... <br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:45 PM

Heh heh... you said fallacious! <br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:46 PM

I believe it.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:48 PM

Took the word right out of my mouth <br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by yoyo52 on 10/23/04 08:50 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The new america - 10/23/04 05:56 PM

Ah yes... the Hummer's original spokesperson. <br><br>
Posted by: Pete

Re: The new america - 10/24/04 07:35 AM

Hmm...that guy riding the train looks familiar...<br><br><br><br><br><br>[color:red]C'mon...you know me.</font color=red>
Posted by: squareman

Re: The new america - 10/24/04 07:17 PM

Wow, sure does , however, it is a credited photo to a staff photographer at the SF Chronicle.<br><br>