eMac HD upgrade?

Posted by: DodgeMan

eMac HD upgrade? - 01/14/09 10:50 AM

I work of a school system that has for the most part all Mac computers! I do all repairs on the computers. I am working on a eMac (USB 2.0) it has a bad HD and I have tried 3 different new 7200 RPM 80GB HDs with no luck.It came with a 5400 RPM 40GB HD. I was told buy one of our suppliers that there head Tec repair person said that you can only use a 5400 RPM HD in these. Is that true and if so where is a good place I can find these cause I can not find them at a reasonable price. If not how can I make it work in my computers? confused
Posted by: TonimusMaximus

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/14/09 09:01 PM

The 7200 rpm drives should work great in an eMac. If the drives have been tested good, then I suspect something is amiss with the bus. How does it boot from CD?
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 08:34 AM

I have not tried to boot from a CD we image all of our computers! I put the new 7200 RPM 80GB HD in to the computer and target booted it installed the image fine and then restarted it and it shows the "?" like it can not see the HD. I tried this with 3 new out of the box HDs. I then found a used 5400 RPM 40GB HD like what came out of the computer and installed it and imaged it the same as the others! This time it started fine and runs with no problem. My problem is I am having a hard time finding 5400 RPM HDs and I need to use the 7200 RPM HDs if I can get them to work some how.
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 08:40 AM

Also I have tried to install this in 3 different eMacs that I think have the same problem " a bad HD" so i think I am on the right track but I'm not sure. I am learning to fix these on my own they are just coming out of the 3 year apple warranty and I am having to fix them as I learn!
Posted by: krusher117

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 09:03 AM

I can't imagine why you couldn't use a 7200 drive. It does sound like the HD is in question of maybe your boot image has been corrupted?
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 09:25 AM

You should try Option booting to see if the drive is available in the list, and has an OS X icon next to it.

You may want to check the formatting on the 7200 drives. Try Zeroing one out, and reformatting it as Mac OS Extended (Journaled). Then image over it, and try booting again. I've had issues with drives exactly how you're describing, and a Zero + Reformat = Success.

Good luck!
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 10:41 AM

The thing I guess I really need to know is if for sure a eMac (USB 2.0) with a 1GHz pro. will will be able to use the 7200 RPM 80GB HD? All of the spec. sheets and info don't see anything about the speed of the HD. I can't find and good info either way. I know these HDs work fine in the newer eMac (2005) models we have. If it matters these are education eMacs they only sold the eMac (USB 2.0) with a 1GHz pro. to education buyers I have found that out looking up info on them.
Posted by: krusher117

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 11:20 AM

try giving the guys at ifixit.com a call. They may be able to help you out with a 5400 RPM drive at a reasonable price. Tell them you heard about them from MacMod and they might even give you a discount.
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/15/09 11:24 AM

There's no reason whatsoever that the 7200RPM drives won't work, unless it's a firmware issue. Systems normally don't bias against drive speed, only drive firmware. And even then, rarely. (I wrote an article about it... http://lowendmac.com/ed/herlihy/08ph/upgrade-options.html)

Try what I suggested on one of the drives, and report back.

http://discussions.apple.com/thread.jspa?messageID=6237789

No mention of eMacs biasing against drive speed.

http://lowendmac.com/imacs/emac-2004-1.25-ghz.html

This also affirms that 7200 RPM drives are compatible.

I'll put money it's your drives formatting. Follow what I suggested.
Posted by: sinirsire

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/16/09 03:02 PM

have made sure the hard drive was set as cable select or as a slave should set to cable select. I have a emac that I have upgraded to a 250 gig HD and works perfectly.
Posted by: TCPMeta

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/17/09 04:10 AM

Well if you're set on getting 5400RPM drives heres a link.
5400RPM drives from pricewatch
Posted by: oojacoboo

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/17/09 10:57 AM

drive speed does NOT matter!
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/20/09 07:02 AM

I'm not set on using the 5400 speed HDs but I can get them to work in the computers I am working on and I can't get these new 7200 speed HDs to work in the same computers! I have tried 6 different HDs in 4 different computers and get the same result every time! I did try to zero them out and I can not get one to zero out! They either stop half way or error out! Do you think i just have a bad batch of HDs?
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/20/09 07:13 AM

That's very fishy. What OS are you using when trying to zero them?

6 HDs all being bad is extremely unlikely. But I wouldn't put it completely out. Where did you source the HDs from?
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/20/09 07:51 AM

Well I have tried 3 different ways to zero them out! I tried to zero them out first by hooking them up externally with a kit that I have to do that on my MacBook. Then I tried putting it into a Dell PC and zeroing it there with the same result. Then I put into our Logicube that we use to clone PC HDs end zero it there and it erred out there also. I hate to take a eMac all the way apparat just to replace the HD in it and not know if it will work or not or I would try that way too.
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/20/09 12:08 PM

By putting the new 7200 RPM HD into a eMac and zeroing out the HD and putting a good image on it seems to be working. I don't know why I could not zero them out any other way but I can get it working this way now and I guess that is all that matters. Thanks for all the help guys!
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/20/09 12:14 PM

Glad to hear you were able to get it running. Good luck with the rest of 'em!
Posted by: sinirsire

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/20/09 02:12 PM

I said in the last post you need to make sure that they are set on cable select or it will come up as a bad HD. There are several brands out there that say they are mac computable but are not. I stuck with seagate put tab on cable select and booted right up not a problem wiped drive formated and walla. I looked at apple build to order info on this machine when coming from factory custom installs could take a 160 GIG HD. Apple broke through there HD size limitations on the Mirror Door serious so size is not the problem or speed of the HD it is the pin out setting that are critical in order to work properly. My eMac is a ATI series so I know that that machine is newer and can handle it no problem. Now depending on the operating system you are installing on the HD will also affect if it will see the HD properly. RPM rates shouldn't matter at all due to the fact through the system upgrades this is fixed in operating systems boot CD's. Would recommend staying to seagate due to the fact clearer instructions and a higher success rate working on Apple. When this machine boots it is critical setting of the pin outs and makes a big difference on how the hard drive works with the machine it self.

Here is the spec page on this
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP85

Below is a great site with lots of info This also has a section in it that is for hard disk drive Here it states clearly that the HD's need to be set to cable select and states why.
http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/eMac/eMac-upgrade.html

The BootROM of Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors), Xserve, Power Mac G5, and any other model introduced after June 2002 can accommodate these larger drives.
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 06:11 AM

Originally Posted By: "sinirsire"
I said in the last post you need to make sure that they are set on cable select or it will come up as a bad HD. There are several brands out there that say they are mac computable but are not. I stuck with seagate put tab on cable select and booted right up not a problem wiped drive formated and walla. I looked at apple build to order info on this machine when coming from factory custom installs could take a 160 GIG HD. Apple broke through there HD size limitations on the Mirror Door serious so size is not the problem or speed of the HD it is the pin out setting that are critical in order to work properly. My eMac is a ATI series so I know that that machine is newer and can handle it no problem. Now depending on the operating system you are installing on the HD will also affect if it will see the HD properly. RPM rates shouldn't matter at all due to the fact through the system upgrades this is fixed in operating systems boot CD's. Would recommend staying to seagate due to the fact clearer instructions and a higher success rate working on Apple. When this machine boots it is critical setting of the pin outs and makes a big difference on how the hard drive works with the machine it self.

Here is the spec page on this
http://support.apple.com/kb/SP85

Below is a great site with lots of info This also has a section in it that is for hard disk drive Here it states clearly that the HD's need to be set to cable select and states why.
http://www.lbodnar.dsl.pipex.com/eMac/eMac-upgrade.html

The BootROM of Power Mac G4 (Mirrored Drive Doors), Xserve, Power Mac G5, and any other model introduced after June 2002 can accommodate these larger drives.


Good Info. Bookmarked those.
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 06:24 AM

Anybody have any idea why zeroing out theses HDs is the only way I can make them work? Just curious to know why I have to do that to make them work.
Posted by: DodgeMan

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 06:34 AM

They are Seagate Barracuda 7200.10 80GB HDs. They are the HDs my supplier said they sell as a HD for this model eMac so I would think they would work with no trouble.
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 07:07 AM

Zeroing hard drives destroys all the data from front to back on the drive. It'll kill the boot records and create new blank ones, and remove recoverable bad sectors. (If they exist) It's pretty much a clean slate. So something on the drive was affecting the Disk Cloning process that's now gone.
Posted by: sinirsire

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 11:06 AM

Boot driver depending on the os system being installed on the do you know how new the os cd you are using is?? Dose it have the latest version of firmware information on it? Nothing wrong with zeroing out data best clean slate to work from removing anything that most manufactures have on the disk. The other question is the eMac firmware up to date???? This is important when making sure you are loading a fresh install.I know that eMac has a firmware update reset memory while using the power button.. Trust me sounds weird but it works. What I recommend doing is reading on every machine u upgrade on before installing any new hardware or software. This time you are lucky in that you where able to load software but some of the apple products that are out there is no repercussions to fixing things if upgrades are not performed without doing the firmware updates. perfect example, Quick silvers and some blue and white G3's and powerbooks. I know learned the hard way. Apple service source cd's if this is a school thing should be somewhere around the school or call there customer care. Apple usually will leave this with someone with in the school district. Probably by now it is on the access of VIA internet. If not you call apple explain to them this is a school thing they will lead you in the right direction. If this is a school with nothing but Apple computers Apple usually leave a source for contact to help in these kinda matters. Reason why I know I use to work for apple computers within the customer care center here in beaverton when they where here, and there is a protocol for schools to call and get any help they need with minimal and or no cost at all
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 11:21 AM

^^ The Education Resource CD. That thing was awesome, always repaired all the funky issues with my Edu-OS 9.x Macs. Boot Driver is a good point, but is always installed if necessary by Disk Utility since OS 9.

Same with the Firmware, there were no Firmware updates for the eMacs because they booted OS X out of the box. Firmware updates were mainly for OS 9 - OS X boxes. All of the models you listed are dual-booting models, and thus required that update.

Incompatible boot records will cause the issue you're referring to. The boot record is empty or does not contain the correct pointer information, during the low-level format (aka, disk zeroing) that information is deleted. Open Firmware will dynamically reassign to the OS that's available on the drive when it detects a fresh drive. Hence why I suggested Option booting to see if the drive is available with an OS X icon. Sometimes that's all it takes. Couldn't have hurt to do an NVRAM flash to erase pre-existing system parameters as well.
Posted by: sinirsire

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/21/09 03:37 PM

Yes there is firmware updates to this machine need to look closer

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/firmware_hardware/superdrivefirmwareupdate.html

just because it is out of the box means nothing. Why they are called firm wear updates.

FYI : just to let you know sometimes thing that say they are dose not really mean they are. Look at this link below think you might want to look into this if you fixing thing and doing admin stuff at your school.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/secretfolder.html
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/22/09 01:43 AM

Everyone is right, there is no issues with 7200rpm drives in eMacs. They are prone to unfathomable jumper issues however. Check the jumper settings on the old (OEM) drives and if possible one of the optical drives. If the old HDs are set to cable select, then it might be worth changing them to a master/slave configuration. I'm not sure which way around works best, you may have to try both. I know they are a pain to rebuild but sometimes its the only way, and once you have worked it out you won't have to work it out again.
Since they work in target mode for you to install onto, what Mac are you installing from? If you are using a Leopard image from an Intel Mac its not going to work. You need to do it from a PPC unit.
Posted by: flippy10

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/22/09 07:05 AM

Originally Posted By: "sinirsire"
Yes there is firmware updates to this machine need to look closer

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/apple/firmware_hardware/superdrivefirmwareupdate.html

just because it is out of the box means nothing. Why they are called firm wear updates.

FYI : just to let you know sometimes thing that say they are dose not really mean they are. Look at this link below think you might want to look into this if you fixing thing and doing admin stuff at your school.

http://www.apple.com/downloads/macosx/system_disk_utilities/secretfolder.html


Firmware: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Firmware

That update is for the Firmware on the Superdrive in those models. And also, there's a good chance his machine is pre-USB 2.0 because it's an ED model. But don't quote me on that. Unless there was a fundamental issue with the Superdrive that would prevent booting from another drive in the chain, I severely doubt that Firmware update applies.

When I said out of the box, I was referring to the fundamental Firmware update that applies to machines that ran OS 9.x before running OS X.
(http://support.apple.com/kb/HT1395)

The eMac does not have a machine Firmware update, only an update to the Superdrive which (most likely) doesn't apply to his model.
(http://forums.macworld.com/message/110839)

That's all I meant, not trying to be a jerk. 8)
Posted by: sinirsire

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/23/09 12:16 AM

Sorry trying not to come off like a jerk just simply giving you the facts to help to do your thing faster so you can do what you are doing faster correctly with what I know from personal experience. I own one of these for three years sold it a friend with 250 GIG HD and look every which way to make sure I was doing right. For dissembling a eMac is not the most favorite thing to do for those who own one or have had to work one. I am only working off what I see and really no major hardware info. I have now purchased a second one these machine and just upgraded it with a new 300 GIG HD and replaced the ram 1 GB and just installed a pioneer Super Drive. Then I replaced the back fan with a faster and quieter fan.

Firmware update are always good thing to just test to see if it will load into the machine if you do not know your hardware profile. Apple firmware updates for the hardware will either load or it will not because it dose look at hard profile info before installing. I am not trying to make you mad but trying to help you and give you what I find on my own time. If you look up earlier there is a person who quoted my comment and information trying show you that you need to make sure that this is set right, and meaning by check pinout means that every company has different place they have there cable select,slave,master settings in different places and sometimes rechecking this simple over looked thing can cause allot of headaches most the time it is what you are talking about. I hope that is not mean or hurt full. Just trying to help with makes a correct and fast installation that can be enjoyed. shocked :-X
Posted by: legomactrumpet

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 01/26/09 05:06 PM

i tried upgrading the hard drive on my emac a long time ago,
it did not work because the jumpers were not in the right place,
but the information was on the manufacturers website,
so much fuss over a little piece of plastic
Posted by: maestro

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 03/09/09 03:29 PM

Have you tried formatting the drive in another Mac? In the past I have had to do that. Its worth a shot. I plan the same upgrade for the eMac I just got today.
Posted by: maestro

Re: eMac HD upgrade? - 03/16/09 06:02 PM

If you are still having difficulties, I am going to be putting a 7200rpm Western Digital in my eMac. We can walk through it together if you like...