Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800

Posted by: rhythmsickness

Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/09/07 05:36 AM

hi,
I am currently rack-mounting a G4 1 Ghz FW 800 into a rack case. Main reasons for the mod are to contain it a little more and also so it can be rack-mounted for easier lugging about, and also because I want to eventually have a rack of macs.
Does anyone know whether this model has any temperature sensors built in? The reason for asking is that in an earlier install I am sure some thing gave me a processor temp gauge. And as I am currently deconstructing it, I would like to know if I have removed this functionality inadvertantly.
Also not knowing what the temperature of the processor is, I'm a little wary to do much more than test boot the system now its out of its tower. Not being able to tell if its overheating until it shuts down.
tia
Posted by: oojacoboo

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/09/07 02:27 PM

I was under the impression that most all the g4 chips had temp sensors.  There are a couple apps out there that can access that data as well.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/09/07 05:27 PM

Actually many G4s do not have temp sensors in them.  I cant say exactly which, but, your MDD G4 does and you can use Temperature Monitor.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/09/07 05:33 PM

Yeah I downloaded Temperature Monitor, and its picking up both the processor board and the hdd on my fw800. have to agree with maestro as well as my Gigabit Ethernernet G4 comes up a blank with TM.
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 01:18 AM

I'm only going by old memories, but I believe that even the G3s had temp sensors. Its just that TM cannot read them.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 02:12 AM

hi again,
I have further questions and thought it was better to put them here than start a new thread.
In order to keep the rack size reasonably small (4U) I am going to have to relocate my optical drives to a second enclosure, probably a 1U dedicated rack. currently these drives sit on my ata 33 bus, but obviously if they are going to be moved out of the case to another case, I am going to have to connect them in another way. Ideally I'd like them to be self powered and hot-pluggable, as well as being interchangable, being able to be plugged into any of the three macs I have. All of which have both firewire and usb 1. The drives themselves are a cd/dvd combi drive and a dvd-ram drive.

I have seen ide to usb 2.0 bridge devices in maplin, but as I only have the fw800 with usb 2 atm that seems a bit of a none starter, as it would make the drives unusable by the other two macs until I installed usb 2 in them as well. So what would I need to do to hook them up to a firewire connection? Is it just as simple as getting the relevant firewire enclosures for the drives and cannibalizing them for the parts?
Ideally eventually this will lead to a dedicated 1U 5.25 rack device with three 5.25' bays in it for optical drives. Would I have to put every drive onto it's own firewire lead? (resulting in three leads) Or would I be able to chain them a la the ATA bus? (master and slave setup)
I am just brainstorming atm so all feedback is welcome.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 03:04 AM

Ok so I know now that firewire devices can be chained, so that would cut down on my leads. Looking at the comparative prices of 5.25" fw enclosures and 3.5" enclosures that have usb 2 combined it seems to be much cheaper to actually get the 3.5" enclosures, as they're only going to be hacked up for parts anyway. Would there be a difference in the firewire to IDE bridges in the devices? Does anyone know of a reason why the devices for 3.5" drives wouldn't work with a 5.25" device?
Posted by: zenstate

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 05:15 AM

Originally Posted By: "maestro "

Actually many G4s do not have temp sensors in them.  I cant say exactly which, but, your MDD G4 does and you can use Temperature Monitor.


thats right.  only the 7450 and 7455 have temp sensors.  so this means no portables or desktops before either the quicksilver and maybe some of the higher end digital audio models.
Posted by: iBookdude458

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 05:46 AM

just use a serial ATA card to hookup all internal drives to the motherboard than ntwork all your macs and everyone of them will have access to the drives
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 07:06 AM

uh I dont have a SATA card. and the drives wont be internal anymore, either. and SATA cards cost like 200+
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 09:50 AM

Ok so temps are averaging about 32-33C for an idle system. (This is an open board remember)
Running UT2K4 put me up to about 42C, I'm thinking these are pretty good temps.

Does anyone know the operating temperatures for the standard apple drive? Thats giving me a readout of about 42 at idle.
Posted by: zenstate

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 06:45 PM

Originally Posted By: "rhythmsickness "

Ok so temps are averaging about 32-33C for an idle system. (This is an open board remember)
Running UT2K4 put me up to about 42C, I'm thinking these are pretty good temps.

Does anyone know the operating temperatures for the standard apple drive? Thats giving me a readout of about 42 at idle.


42c for a HD is more than OK.  HD's need to get up to 60-70c before there is a need to worry.  Is your system a single or dual MDD? 
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 07:01 PM

ah its the single 1GHz version
Posted by: zenstate

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/10/07 08:10 PM

for a single as long as you keep the temps below 50c on the cpu you will be golden.  my dual idles around 40-42c and with improved cooling and chud combined it never goes above 52-54c.

you should use chud..

link:  ftp://ftp.apple.com/developer/Tool_Chest/Testing_-_Debugging/Performance_tools/

you need version 3.5.2 for the mdd.  anything newer won't work and anything older isn't very tiger-friendly.  I use the nap feature in chud 100% of the time and have no issues or slow downs..

more info on chud: http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/feedback/MDD_CHUD_feedback.html#storytop


I bet chud would lower a singles temp by at least 5-7c.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 02:47 AM

ah zenstate, many thanks, thats what gave me the temp readout before, through the processor prefs pane, which must have been from a later version of chud that came with the dev tools in 10.4.6.
That seems to have worked wonders, my initial bootupstate of 28.73C drops to 25.2C while idle.
I'll run fuller activities for it later.

Yeah I think that once the boards in its new enclosure and has its new thermal paste all should be gravy.
Posted by: TCPMeta

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 04:38 AM

Just remember to mod the front button pannel for the case sensor or it will think the case is open and you can't use sleep mode.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 04:46 AM

Originally Posted By: "TCPMeta "

Just remember to mod the front button pannel for the case sensor or it will think the case is open and you can't use sleep mode.


ah cant use sleep mode anyway due to my soundcard. Case sensor is in the power button / audio jack thing off the front right?
Posted by: zenstate

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 05:00 AM

cool stuff man.  did you get or make the script to enable chud when you boot?

if not here is a link:  http://www.gourmetcookies.iinet.net.au/images/napmode.zip
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 05:06 AM

ah zenstate, I did not, again thanks, it has to be set every time even though its a pref setting?
or is it just for when the system hard resets?
Posted by: zenstate

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 06:46 AM

just put the script in applications.  its a .app script.   go to accounts pref pane and set the script as a login item. 
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 07:50 AM

My dual 1.42 at work is currently at 57.4C. It does have 5HDs in it though.

5.25" devices will work just fine with the hardware from 3.25" enclosures. Its no different really. Its the pre-built ones which tend to have restricted firmware and will not allow the use of other makes or models of drives in them.
If this thing is going to end up as a 4U box, surely thats enough room to fit expansion cards without the need for risers?
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 07:59 AM

Originally Posted By: "Waragainstsleep "

If this thing is going to end up as a 4U box, surely thats enough room to fit expansion cards without the need for risers?


Ah yes this one doesn't need risers hence the 4U, because mainly I'm not sure how to alternately cool the chip in some more compact fashion, and the heat sink is just shy of 3U.

However, this is merely the first one thats being done. Shortly I should have enough logic boards to make three of these, so it's more of an evolving project if you will.

Its good to know where I can get them from for the subsequent versions, and also if I can get a much smaller heatsink solution then they will very likely be adapted into this one at a later stage.
Posted by: oojacoboo

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 09:37 AM

heatsink....watercooling?
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 12:28 PM

Watercooling might be overkill. Or it might not. The G4 Xserve also uses the exact same CPU modules as the MDD, its just that they only shipped with 1GHz or 1.33GHz single and dual chips.
My point is the Xserve had a much smaller heatsink. Though it has much faster fans. And they never got to 1.42GHz for a good reason I suspect.
My (currently) single 1GHz Xserve is only transferring files from the network to its drives, but its at 29C. Thats pretty cool. I reckon it'll be happy with its new dual 1GHz module. It should be practically freezing going by the noise of the wretched thing.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 12:59 PM

So, if I fitted an xserve heatsink and stepped up the fans instead I could lose some height? How much smaller are they? I can find the part listed but no actual photographs / dimensions.
To be honest I'm really wary about introducing watercooling. Its not like the system really needs it
as it is, its not overclocked or anything, and I know very little about it to boot.
more research needed I think
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 01:11 PM

sorry penny just dropped, it must be tiny its a 1U server isn't it. Doh!
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 02:23 PM

smile
There you go.

It is pretty small. It also has a blower right beside it and a plastic air duct over the top. And blowers are loud.

I don't know how quick you want those risers, but I need to order some other bits, and it would save on shipping if you want them ordered this week.
Feel free to iChat me. just use my forum name as an AIM account or .mac. Always happy to hear from fellow modders.
Posted by: zenstate

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/11/07 07:36 PM

Originally Posted By: "Waragainstsleep "

My dual 1.42 at work is currently at 57.4C. It does have 5HDs in it though.


57c isn't that bad at all for a dual 1.42
Posted by: Protocol6v

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/12/07 03:48 AM

My Dual 1.25 usually hovers around 135f (around 56c).
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/12/07 12:57 PM

It hit 58.4C before I went out today around 11. I should add it runs distributed.net's RC5-72 client, so both CPUs are at 100% 24/7 (It won't wake up if I sleep it due to a USB 2 PCI card, and for some reason it takes up to an hour to boot, but runs just fine once it has).
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/13/07 01:20 AM

My dual 1GHz was running 59C this morning. I decided to give it a break.
Posted by: rhythmsickness

Re: Apple Rackintosh G4 FW 800 - 04/21/07 06:09 PM

Just an update, if you're looking to do a rack mount mod, http://www.penn-elcom.com/ has a nice range of parts. I will give further info on them when I actually manage to order some.