Upgrade advice

Posted by: BrainMan

Upgrade advice - 02/26/05 11:19 AM

Greetings! Judge Wapner is on at 5, so I have to be quick.

I have a G4 quicksilver 733, and I am planning to upgrade the processor and graphics card. I hope to use DVD Studio Pro and Motion at an acceptable performance level, (rocket speeds not necessary).

So, does anyone have any recommendations regarding Graphics cards and Processor Upgrades. I was thinking about on of the ATI cards and an OWC Mercury Extreme G4@1.4GHz.
Posted by: KnifeLord

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/26/05 12:11 PM

How much ram? I would go for AT LEAST a radion 9000, but a newer one would be far nicer...

-Knife
Posted by: BrainMan

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/26/05 02:03 PM

Knife;
Thanks. Yeah, I figured on a 9000 series. Any one in particular?
As far as ram goes, I've got 1.12 GB.
Posted by: oojacoboo

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/26/05 03:15 PM

the fastmac upgrade that krusher did the review on is very nice. I would take that route for the processor upgrade. As for the video card, I must say that I am lacking in that arena. :silly:

http://macmod.com/content/view/227/79/

Reason for Edit: Forgot to add link

Post edited by: oojacoboo, at: 2005/02/26 23:16
Posted by: BrainMan

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 09:16 AM

Thanks.
I see some new postings and maybe I should dig through the archives.

Re: Processor Upgrades. I hadn't heard of that processor company. I read the review and although it certainly sounds like the author acheived an improvement, it's not really surprising considering what he was comparing it to. Duh, a Ferrari is faster than a 1967 Beetle. I would be more interested in a head to head comparison of several comperable processors. I think MacWorld did such a thing but I can't find the article. I remember the author of that article compared issues like documentation, ease of instalation, overclocking (is that the opposite of under dishwashing?) price to performance and stability.

Re: Graphics Cards
I've done some reading and research and I think I have learned some things. The cards are somewhat OS specific or dependant. It shouldn't have surprised me but I'm sort of a dope sometimes. My problem is I still use certain apps in OS 9.2.2 I guess I'm too cheap to upgrade everything at once. So short term, I need to be able to run both OS 9.x and OS 10.3. What I gather from ATI's web site is that 9200 is the newest I can put in. Am I wrong?
Posted by: whitlock

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 09:53 AM

You can check out the comparison to the Sonnet upgrade card here as well. There may be some future ones coming.

Link :: Sonnet Upgrade
Posted by: maestro

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 10:57 AM

I myself would look into the 9800. Motion needs that kind of juice. If you are on a tight
budget pick up the 128mb version of the 9000 or try to find a Nvidia 4ti 128mb. As for the
processor, go with a dual of lesser speed than a single fast card. I would go with a dual 800 or
1gz. Video work needs power and I think the 9000 128/dual 800 would make you happy and
productive. Good luck.
-maestro
Posted by: BrainMan

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 11:11 AM

Thank you Mr. Maestro.
I agree about getting as muscular of a graphics card as one can, when anticipating the use of Motion. Everything Apple writes certainly give that impression. However, if I am not mistaken I would not be able to continue to use OS 9 for other applications (if I install the 9800). Right? I'm sorry to say it but I still switch between 9 and 10.

Re: Processor Upgrades, why do you suggest a slower dual. I'm not a tecnophyle.

Post edited by: BrainMan, at: 2005/02/27 19:13
Posted by: krusher117

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 11:44 AM

Off the record, I would HIGHLY recommend the FastMac processor

And yes, there is a pending review of the upgrades from all the other manufaturors as well and a round up article on which one I select as the best in class.
Posted by: Edgefox

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 12:47 PM

Maestro, I think those are valid ideas but If I remember right you can't run Motion on anything slower then an 867 so you'd be better off getting a dual 1gig not a dual 800 (like the one I have)
Posted by: BrainMan

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 01:08 PM

Krusher:
Regarding the FastMac, I went to their site -
http://store.fastmac.com/product_info.php?cPath=13&products_id=74
and found this disclaimer:

"For PowerMac G4 AGP Graphics (Sawtooth), Gigabit Ethernet, Digital Audio & QuickSilver 2001 Only. 3 Year Warranty."

So not being entirely clear what I have, I went to Apple to help me figure it out.
Apparantly I have a Quicksilver introduced after 2001 but it's not a 2002. So it's a 2002 that is not called a 2002. HUH!! If anybody can explaine this to me, please help me out.

Here's the Apple doc that explains (not) it.
http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=42739

So if I understand correctly the FastMac won't work for me.
Posted by: maestro

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/27/05 02:22 PM

Okay, I would guess you have a 2001 model. It may have been built in 2002, but is not a 2002
model. This is because of the CPU you have. You could go with the Fast Mac. I cant tell you
if that is a good choice though. Buzz over to XLR8 your mac and check their CPU upgrades
to see how well received they are.
-maestro
Posted by: BrainMan

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/28/05 06:59 AM

To those who have offered suggestions, thank you.

Re. Processor Upgrades:
It seems that from within the inner circle of Modders, the FastMac processor is your choice.

Re. Graphics Cards:
No one has really addressed my issues, so I will recap in hopes of a parting shot before I consider other alternatives.
I'd like to run Motion on OS X but also continue to run legacy apps which I haven't upgraded on OS9.
Is there any card which will work with both OS9 and OSX but is also capable of working with Motion. Apple lists minimum graphic card requirements for Motion which do not state compatibility for OS9. Perhaps cards which are compatible for both OS9 and OSX will work with Motion. Slower is okay for me. If someone can clear that up it would be nice. Maybe that's all I need.
So to conclude, the cost of upgrading all my OS9 apps and buying a new Motion compatible video card is greater than the cost of buying a new G5 simply to run Motion.
Posted by: maestro

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/28/05 07:32 AM

You can run Motion on a slower processor, its just how effective it will be. A dual processor will be up to %60 faster than a single. I have seen tests where a dual 533 killed a 867 single on video tests. Go with a Radeon 9000 128mb if you want to go cheap and spring for a 9800 if you can. Video memory is critical for motion (and video in general).
I just CANT say to buy a single processor for video, I am sorry to say you would probably
regret that. My overclocked 1.25G4 dual(now 1.42) beats the sh!t ouf of all single processor g5s. That says ALOT. Good Luck and keep us posted.
-maestro

Post edited by: maestro, at: 2005/02/28 15:34
Posted by: BrainMan

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/28/05 01:38 PM

Maestro:
Yep, as I messaged personally I'll let this end with your comment.

The only thing I have to add is what I learned at the ATI site. To wit:

The Radeon 9200 (price at about $130) is the last or numerically highest card which will support both Mac OS 9.x and OS 10.x for a machine like mine (Quicksilver).
The 9800 (price at about $350) is for OS 10.x only. But . . .
ATI will let you trade in the 9200 and purchase the 9800 for about $100 less, or $250 after a $50 credit when you give them your old 9200.

So once you don't need to run OS 9 for legacy applications anymore, you can make a reasonable trade up. The only caveat I would add is; who knows the how long the trade-in pricing for those items will last.
Posted by: maestro

Re:Upgrade advice - 02/28/05 02:08 PM

Brainman, I had to reply one more time to clear ati's claims. A 9200 is PCI only (your QS is
AGP. You can run a 9000 128mb with both OSs as far as I know-I run a 9000 64mb and I run
both OSs on my MDD 2003 (the last dual boot Mac). You can now get the Mac edition 9800 for
$250 at OWC. I would check around and see for sure that the 9000 128mb is not dual boot.
Hope this is helpful.
-maestro
Posted by: Edgefox

Re:Upgrade advice - 03/01/05 01:25 PM

I'm not sure if anyone cares, but I have jsut installed a ati 9800 in my dual 800 quicksilver and it appears to run os 9.2.2 just fine. So I don't know if it's just a support thing or if I have a magic computer but it would appear the best graphics card you can get to run both would be the ati 9800 (then you don't have to worry about trading in!)
Posted by: Anonymous

Re:Upgrade advice - 03/01/05 07:24 PM

Karma;
that's very interesting. I care. I spent about a couple hours on their site, reading and comparing cards. And trying to get definetive responses from the forum. Nothing was stated on the 9800 giving any indication that it would work with OS 9.x Whereas the 9000 and the 9200 said it would work with both.

On the other hand nothing was specifically stated that it would not. So either you are lucky, or I can't read. Or maybe there is some legal agreement between third party developers and Apple that requires the third party developers to "ixnay on the OS nineay" after a certain point in the OS product marketing cycle. Geeze, listen to me. Before you know it I'll be spouting off theories about JFK and multiple gunmen.

Your information was the very thing I was trying to illicit from the peanut gallery. Now what am I going to do about that 9000 that is in a delivery truck headed to my house.
Posted by: maestro

Re:Upgrade advice - 03/02/05 12:41 AM

Keep the 9000, I think you will be happy with it.
-maestro
Posted by: Edgefox

Re:Upgrade advice - 03/02/05 04:11 AM

The software came with an OS9 patch (in the box) so maybe the very first 9800's weren't os9 compatible and then someone took care of it. TO be completely honest I don't think you need anything more then a 9000 on a quicksilver CPU. I'm looking forward to upgrading my proccessor (after I get my taxes paid off, and get out of debt) because I believe that will make a bigger difference in the whole production suite bundle, but I won't know for sure until I get past the fater proccessor.