Ever been attempted...

Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Ever been attempted... - 01/06/07 04:57 AM

I was wondering if anyone has ever attempted to use non stock liquid cooling on a PowerMac G5 dual core/dual processor setup. Or even better yet tried to use TEC/Phase Change cooling on them. I know even with the stock liquid cooling I struggle to keep my temperature low, and was pondering the idea of some extreme cooling modifications to my G5, not enough courage to tear into my Mac Pro yet.

I know this is only my first post in this forum, and I am fairly new to Macs so I am open to all critcism. I have successfully built a triple cascade phase change system for my old PC, and won several awards for case/cooling modifications. I don't belive this type of modification is out of the question. I recently got my hands on some dead dual 2.5's and checked out the water blocks used. Nothing to hard to machine on a CnC, and then possibly braze them for a phase change block.

Basically I was just wondering if anyone has attempted this. I'm looking for a project this summer and have two brand new G5 cases arriving next week, but with college starting in a week and a half I won't have time or money to work on them. I have some plans drawn up if anyone is interested in how I'm thinking about doing this, so feel free to ask questions and let me know what you think.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/07/07 03:57 AM

I would think any watercooling system would work.  I have never seen anyone do it, I doubt anyone has.  I as well of others have contemplated it, BUT, it comes down to why do it?  Nobody has figured out how to overclock them, and they are decently quiet already.  Yeah, they run hot, but they are designed to as the Power5 processor as well as the Power4s both ran super hot.  One other concern is the fans.  They are computer controlled and actually have a board within them and unplugging the computer to ramp all fans and run the system at a slower speed.  It could even shut it down.  A firmware mod would be needed I think.  One of the reasons I sold my G5 was that it was so limited in modding.  The top models are still sick ass fast even with the quad models upon us.

Here are some suggestions...Koolance cpu blocks are the easiest to mod to fit, a dual 120 radiator will fit in the front of the case, without the huge heatsinks-there is a decent amount of room for the rest of the loop.
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/07/07 04:53 AM

Thanks for the info. I search the net all day today to find nobody has attempted to liquid cool a G5. I also took apart my set of extra processors and removed the stock water block, and took it down to my dads machine shop. Tomorrow I plan on creating the exact block out of copper instead of the aluminium alloy one. As for Koolance blocks, they are overpriced, and only provide "okay" cooling power. The solid copper block alone may drop the temperatures down to a satisfying level. It is proven that processors do run faster when they are cooler and yes my G5 is fast enough, but it could always be faster.

As for the fan issue, my good friend has worked on G5's before and found the strings that control the fan settings. I don't know much in the programming aspect of Macs so I can't explain it much more than that. I will ask him exactly what he did. Yeah nobody has found how to overclock the IBM PPC processors yet, but I'm sure someone will.

I know my modifications may not be necessary, but it's always fun to try something new that hasn't been done before. It wasn't neccesary to run my PC at -100C either with a triple cascade phase change system, when a simple Vapochill would have done the same thing, but it was a good challenge and got lots of bragging rights for doing it, along with learning a ton about HVAC systems. I hope to have my website back up this coming week before I leave for college again. I will post pictures and my plans of my two G5 case modifications I plan on doing in my spare time, and when I get some more money...

If anyone else has anything to add about this project let me know. I am always open for new ideas and feedback about my work.
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/07/07 12:29 PM

There was a guy who claimed to overclock a G5 not so long ago. Could have been a fake though I guess. I think Apple clocked them as high as possible anyway. Without even more crazy cooling that is.
Posted by: TCPMeta

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/08/07 12:13 PM

It can be overclocked. Not by much but it can. Water blocks are hard to make. I made one once with a block of copper and a drillpress. Drilled out two holes on the side then drilled the top all the way though then welded two copper plates on the top and bottom. Didn't look great but it worked pretty good. I wish I kept it but it was sold with my old gaming PC. I'm still trying to find a way to make a mount for my water blocks for my sawtooths and trying to find a cheap pump.
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/08/07 05:53 PM

Yes I would imagine water blocks would be pretty difficult to make only using a drill press.  smile I have access in my fathers machine shop to a a CnC machine which with about 2 hours of programing and 15mins of cutting makes a water block that looks just as good as any professionally made block.

As for mounts what type of blocks are you using? And do you have the meaurements of the holes on the logic board or processor to mount them too? They are making universal tops now for many blocks which I have found many tof the holes in combination match up with the Mac wholes, at least on my G5 they did. Just something to look into. A cheap pump can be picked up at Danger Den, or almost any other water cooling supply store. I am partial to Ehiem pumps, but i don't know if your looking for a 120VAC or a 12VDC pump.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/08/07 06:14 PM

My favorite blocks are dangerden.  You can make your own mounts too.  I have made some for both Mac and PCs.  120v pumps are the way to go if you ask me, especially for Macs that have low watt psus (for the most part).  As you have a CNC machine, I say go for it.  I dont recommend making your own blocks as they are fairly cheap to buy, have been tested thoroughly and are based on tried and true designs.  I have only seen a couple of good blocks made by modders and those guys have incredible metal magic skills.

Post some pics of the G5 cpu bare and we can help you with design and mounting.

TCPMeta....where did you see the OC'ing G5 information?
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/08/07 10:26 PM

Yeah I already have the blocks made. I made them after the old Danger Den Maze4 blocks. I have a bunch of copper bar stock laying around so I might try a TDK or RBX design also. As for being cheaper I can get a copper bar stock for about $15.00 locally that will make 4 to 5 blocks depending on the kind. The brass tops don't cost much either. I've been making blocks for about three years and have gone through many designs until I find one thats just right. Most of my firends can't tell the difference betwen my blocks and premade Danger Den blocks. A CnC machine works wonders. Most of the cost of blocks goes into the machinery to make them.
Posted by: TCPMeta

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/09/07 03:02 AM

I made my water block back when they cost a arm and a leg. I found a way to mount my water blocks by using two peices of plexi-glass, screws, nuts and rubber washers. I'm going to try it out next week.

The G5 O/C was done at a computer refresher course class at FCCJ. Some kids were playing with a Power Macintosh G5 (Late 2005) and O/C from what i've heard. I was too busy working on my work. I did see that the CPU was running at 1.30GHz.
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/09/07 04:21 AM

Are you sure your not confusing the PowerMac G4 with the G5? After a lot of research I only found the G5's starting at 1.6GHz processors and higher. I have heard of G4's being overclocked and watercooled, but never a PowerMac G5.

As for making mounts out of plexi-glass, Danger Den has done that since about the Maze3 blocks. I swear by plexi-glass mounts. They are cheap and easy to make with a CnC machine, or even just a drill press and dremel tool. I also has use brass and copper but plexi-glass gives it the cleanest look. If you get watercooling successfully mounted on G5 processors let me know. I have run into a couple snags here and there that I am sorting through. Nothing major, but I want everything to look clean and professional. Let me know how it goes for you.
Posted by: wisdom_105

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/09/07 12:34 PM

this guy claims to have done it but it does say  much don't no if its fake or what just thought would post it http://forums.macnn.com/65/power-mac-and-mac-pro/314000/ive-overclocked-my-g5/
i hope its real lol
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/09/07 04:14 PM

I have made some mounts from carbon fiber.  i will post a pic when i get home.  it is possible to OC a G5 but no one has dont it correctly.  Best bet is to contact IBM, yeah really, it has been done before with some success.

OC or not an h2o G5 would be great!  Get some pics up!! shocked
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/09/07 08:55 PM

I'm still waiting on some more supplies to come in today or tomorrow to finish mounting my water blocks in the system. I'll have pictures up as soon as I get everything installed.

After reading the overclocking article, I'm unsure it would actually work. Seems more of just driver modification than actual processor overclocking. Not sure about it since there no quanitative data to compare, just relative geusses on times for endocoding and such. Show me some benchmark screen captures, and for it to work all the time stable, and then I might be a believer.  wink
Posted by: TCPMeta

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/11/07 12:40 PM

Might overclock the same way as the old classic macs via clock chipping. I tryed it once for giggles with a old 486PC that had a built in CPU and it did work. The CPU ran at 33MHz and I switched out the crystal that was 14.4MHz with a 16MHz one and it overclocked the CPU from 33MHz to 40MHz.

Or maybe theres a way in the firmware to overclock it. Theres so many ways theses days it's not funny.
Posted by: Waragainstsleep

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/11/07 01:16 PM

I think they got rid of crystal clocks a while back.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/11/07 02:01 PM

This is just a guess, but maybe the OCing is done with software much like a PCs bios.  We as Mac OCers are used to the hardware OC, but PC users get full control in the bios set up.  Some boards can do it with software within the OS too.

If it is hardware, we need to look at three speed versions of the G5 chips.  That is a simplest way of finding the area for moving resistors.  It may end up being different motherboards (more likely) with changes to the bus speed as it is locked to the cpu or vice versa.
Posted by: TCPMeta

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/12/07 11:47 AM

Thing is I dout apple used the same chip for all of the G5 models. Too bad you can't dump the frimware and use a hex editor to change some hardware options. Unless theres a code in OF that will overclock the CPU.

I wonder, what if you use virtual pc and use a O/C program for windows would it O/C the emulated PC CPU or will it o/c the G5 CPU.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/12/07 06:52 PM

As I have stated before, all of the chips are the same, just speed binned.  1.6-2.0 are all the same chip.  2.0-2.7 are the same too (I think they are different revisions, but I am unsure/there was a die change somewhere in the G5s.  The dual cores are all the same chip too.  I know little about OF, but there must be a way to tweak settings.  The only thing that could throw a wrench in it is differing controlling chips (like a PCs north/south bridge), which there must be with the PCI/PCIX version difference.  The G5s are just so different from anything else on the market.  We just need someone with enough money and balls to really start switching cpus around....to see what happens.

Where are the G5 cpu photos?
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/12/07 11:46 PM

Photos are on their way. Just got final parts in today to mount the water blocks to the processor. I should have them up tomorrow night at the earliest. I have a soccer tournament tomorrow morning/afternoon, in Maryland so I won't be home most of the day, then Sunday I head back to college Sunday morning, so I hope to have them up by then. I have been swamped with work and have been in and out of the hospital all week with some stupid virus I caught, mono. I try my best to get pictures later tonight when I go down to the workshop in about an hour, then download and upload them tomorrow night when I get back.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/18/07 12:37 AM

Yeah, crystals are not used anymore.  Where are the pics!!!!!!!!!!!!!!?
Posted by: Vapor @ SuperCooled.net

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/18/07 04:11 AM

Well I don't have the pictures on my computer. I went back to college and I am five-six hours away from home where I was working on everything. I told my friend to take some pictures. I got a bad case of mono last week so I really didn't do much. My friend was going to finish up installing all the new pieces and take some pictures. The next time I find my way home (month or so) I'll make sure the pictures are up, hopefully I'll get them sent to me sooner. I'll give him a call once I'm feeling better and let him know everyone is waiting for these pictures.
Posted by: maestro

Re: Ever been attempted... - 01/26/07 02:39 AM

Cant wait!