Small measure of satisfaction...

Posted by: DaddyMac

Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 01:27 PM

In a follow-up to my post here, I was just made aware that the response for this product has been horrible- much lower than in past years...<br><br>Not that I want this company to lose money, but I would like the f*ckin' non-creative types to take a step back from now on...<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 01:36 PM

Just make sure you don't strut about it. That'll just harden his resolve. Instead, say, "Ok, here's what I suggest we do next." Don't assign blame, just offer a good solution.<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 01:47 PM

I'm never one to gloat about anything to anyone's face, so he'll never hear a peep out of me...<br><br>Not that I know the design I created would have been that much more successful, but it makes me smile a little to know that the idea HE had is currently in the marketing toilet. <br><br>The way things run in my department, I'm basically my own designer, pre-press coordinator and art director when I get a project such as this. Everyone else is either an editor or on the marketing side...<br><br>Not that I don't care for a dissenting opinion now and then- in fact, I welcome non-creative input sometimes. The way I see it, they are the type of person who will be buying the actual product. As the old saying goes, they 'don't know art, but they know what they like'...<br><br>The thing that really cheesed me off in this scenario was that the layout had been approved at EVERY stage and was wholeheartedly endorsed by everyone who reviewed it. Until, that is, it came across the desk of the owner. From what I was told, he like his idea so much he proclaimed himself a 'genius' when he saw the new final layout...<br><br>It's that type of ego I can't help but be disgusted with- and also be a little smug towards when that person's ideas tank.<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 03:25 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> The way things run in my department, I'm basically my own designer, pre-press coordinator and art director when I get a project such as this. Everyone else is either an editor or on the marketing side... <p><hr></blockquote><p>Same exact thing here. My boss is practically just the editor. The big problems start when the boss of my boss (director of the company) gets to see a project. The trick it to never show the director the final copy. If he says something once it's printed, just reply that he was away or busy during the final checks and you had to send the project out for print. <br><br>Sorry to hear that about your cover! Keep it in your portfolio and you can use it later on a better project! :)<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 03:39 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>It's that type of ego I can't help but be disgusted with<p><hr></blockquote><p>And you say you wanna get into the agency business?! LMAO! This guy is just practice for what you have to deal with in an ad agency.<br><br><br><br>*walks away, shaking head & chuckling to self*<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 03:42 PM

LOL, so true! <br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 04:09 PM

C'mon, though...I've been on both sides of the ball- I've been the client and I've been the vendor, and this guy just takes the cake.<br><br>It's one thing in an agency setting where you have to deal with clients who have stubborn non-creative types who 'want what they want', but this situation is just unlike any I've dealt with in my life.<br><br>Did I tell you about the time he wanted me to put a picture of one of his old female limousine drivers (who everyone told me he had the hots for) on the cover of one of our marketing tabloids? This is an item that goes out to a quarter of a million people, and he's treating it like his personal love note.<br><br>Let me clarify my last statement about the 'ego' that I was disgusted with. It's the type of ego who constantly rests on his laurels, and firmly believes that ideas that worked in the past will work over and over and over (and OVER) again. He has this reputation in the business of relying on his employees for his ideas, and there have been countless magazine & newspaper articles trumping up this notion. However, when you corner some of my co-workers, they'll tell you a different story. <br><br>If he didn't already have the idea floating in his demented mind, it won't go any further than the 4 walls of the room. There's a long-standing record of that type of behavior where I work, and I only know this because the people in my department tried to point out that I wasn't the only one going through this frustration.<br><br>I'm not so thin-skinned that I can't take rejection, because I'm always trying to improve my skillset & my way of thinking. But this is like dealing with Mr. Burns from the Simpsons. <br><br>(insert 'Excellent' sound clip here)<br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 04:28 PM

With people like that you can't allow them to feel they're out of the loop. Ask for their input along the way. When they suggest something that you know won't work, explain the reason why it won't work (educating them) and then ask them if they can think of another way to do it. Drive them crazy asking them for their input until they get sick of you and tell you to just do whatever you want. <br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 04:30 PM

All I can tell ya dood, is that what you're experiencing ain't unique. Doesn't matter if it's a client of a co-worker or a boss or a CEO. And if what you say a/b the guy is in fact the book, then you probably should've expected it anyway.<br><br>Bottom line, you gave it your best effort. Be satisfied with that, and as long as this guy doesn't blame the poor results on you, fuhgettabout it. <br><br>Today my account exec and I won a small battle with an inexperienced and very stubborn client. Yay us. Tomorrow, we will lose another battle to someone else. And so it goes...<br><br>Welcome to the soap opera aka "Careers" <br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 07:05 PM

All I can say is trust me, you haven't been in THIS situation before...The guy's had 2 strokes, and I swear he should not be still running this company...He can barely make it around the office.<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 08:05 PM

Give him some Hight cholesterol food with the next project! :)<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/11/03 09:25 PM

At the very least it sounds like you have a strong piece to show in your next interview...should you find yourself in that position.<br><br>Thankfully, a strong piece of work speaks volumes of the designer regardless whether or not the client had the good sense to actually publish it. Meaning, "Publishing does not equate legitimacy"...<br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 03:19 AM

Amen. Your book is a reflection of how you think which is what any creative director is looking for in a candidate. A good idea is a good idea even if it was never produced.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 03:27 AM

*still chuckling to self* I'm in this business for over 30 years big agencies, small agencies, client-side, and freelance. I'll see you meshugenah CEO and raise you half a dozen loonies, cross-dressers, drama queens, droolers, and outright thieves! And I don't dare say I've seen it all yet at least not until I hang up my t-square for good. <br><br>Oh, and lest I forget why, when I was your age, I used to walk 8 miles to work in 3 feet of snow. In July! <br><br>
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 04:58 AM

Research it and use the results of the research to prove your point.<br><br>[color:blue]Your unsolicited Apple authority</font color=blue>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 07:33 AM

I'm sure you've seen a LOT more than I have in your time in the biz, but every situation's unique- and this company reeks of abnormalcy. But I can't complain because 99% of the time, I can do no wrong...but that's also on the production end.<br><br>Anyone ever REALLY good at something they don't really like doing? <br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 07:41 AM

I always feel self-conscious about putting things that haven't been published or distributed in my book- I feel like the person on the other side of the table is judging me solely on what's been 'put out there', and maybe feels that I sit home and do all this stuff in my free time.<br><br>I'd really like to get some ad stuff in my book, just to mix up the pot a little. Right now it's a lot of web & publishing projects- something that's obviously not getting me any jobs besides some freelance web jobs and publishing positions...<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 08:50 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I feel like the person on the other side of the table is judging me solely on what's been 'put out there', and maybe feels that I sit home and do all this stuff in my free time.<p><hr></blockquote><p>I cannot stress to you enough how totally wrong you are about that DM. Most (if not all) creative directors will WANT to see "Spec Work" - even if it's an ad for a company that doesn't exist for a product that it totally off the wall.<br><br>CDs are looking for "how you think" more so than "how you produce." Of course it's always nice to show off a great piece of work that a client actually approved and produced, but that just doesn't happen too often. The problem is that by the time the client makes his/her changes and approves the design, it's so watered down that it rarely has the same impact as the orginal design.<br><br>If you really want to get into an agency, start putting together a dozen or so ads, a brochure or two, a billboard or two and maybe a poster for a product or client, then do the same thing for two more clients. <br><br>Any jackass designer can come up with ONE decent ad for this, and another one for that, but you need to be able to come up with a concept, and impliment it across a variety of mediums. By doing what I said, it will show them that you can come up with a great idea and use it "across all audiences." (that's our slogan at R&R Partners).<br><br>If you need help getting started, I would suggest just going through some magazines, picking out a product, and then come up with ways to "concept" it for use with outdoor, advertising and collateral.<br><br><br>Visit Me!
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:06 AM

i totally agree with MG and I would also consider a self promo<br><br>[color:blue]Your unsolicited Apple authority</font color=blue>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:07 AM

If you really want to get into an agency, start putting together a dozen or so ads, a brochure or two, a billboard or two and maybe a poster for a product or client, then do the same thing for two more clients.<br><br>Well see, this is the problem- I have nothing besides college work that even remotely resembles an ad campaign...<br><br>Anyone got anything I can help out with, that I can leech off of and put in my book? j/k<br><br>But thanks for the reassurance about my stuff that hasn't been published/released. I guess I'm still in that mode of thinking from when I first got out of school. <br><br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:22 AM

I have a great idea. We should build a website where we could put all the rejected work and we could put it all up for sale. Some clients do not like to wait, and therefore could use some of the work already done and maby just personnalize it a bit. In other words, since the rehect work is already made, it could be sold! <br>What you think?<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:29 AM

joking right?<br><br>[color:blue]Your unsolicited Apple authority</font color=blue>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:37 AM

I know it's a crazy idea. But if it is well advertised, it could work just fine. It would be simmilar like ELance.com but with the work already done. The custommer could browse through low-res copyrighted previews, and for a fee they could buy the work. Once the work is bought, it would be sold as a single original and taken off the website. The corporation with the website would get a certain % of the money and the artist would get another %. Many artists could put up their work and if sold only they would get paid. <br>Also, we would charge for personallizing the work. <br>Anything could be put on the site from logo design to poster and magazine layouts. Even flash templates. <br>It sounds like a joke, but I have seen crazyer sutes before that made good $.<br>I mean, the work is there, it's done and waiting to be sold. Why keep it in a lost folder on some corner of your hard drive?<br><br><br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:39 AM

What's to stop someone from simply viewing the idea and creating it on their own? Since it hasn't been published or copyrighted, it'd be kinda hard to cry foul when they wind up stealing it...<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 09:52 AM

1- Everything on the site would be copyrighted. (that can always be argued.)<br>2- They would have to create it, therefore paying someone to create it.<br>3- All the custommers would have to log-in with a password.<br>4- If they want to copy something, they just need to go to the grocery store, buy a magazine, and copy a few ideas from it while changing a few colors.<br>5- Any project has pictures in it which would be sold as well. Where would they copy the pictures from?<br><br>Only compannies would be able to sign up, and we would be able to track all the projects they look at which would serve as proof in case they would try to copy something.<br><br><br><br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 10:03 AM

But how would someone know if they wanted to sign up and be a customer without seeing any of the work first?<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 10:27 AM

Marketing and advertisement my friend. <br><br>- Advertising the site would be one of the biggest problems, specially with a budget close to 0$.<br><br>- Signing up would be free.<br>- We would include some previews before signing up, pretty much like on porn sites and such.<br>- We would also put in the previews a few testimonials from different companies that had full satisfaction. (Testimonials do not always have to be real :)<br><br><br>E-lance is making millions $/year. There are hundreds of thousands of graphic designers world wide who have lots of unpublished rejected work. Many companies also look for a fast job, and if they can get a preview they would like, custummizing the project for the company would take no time at all and they would have a project ready for whatever their quick deadline is.<br><br>Most companies have a problem with trust as they do not know what the graphic designer will come up with for them. Here, we would offer the work already 90% done, therefore, they would be able to see what they will get. <br><br>Also, we could make a Royalty Free website just like iStockPhoto.com from where they would buy credits for projects and would have to personnalize themselves. The projects would always remain on the site though for anyone's use. A % of the credit sale would go to the graphic designer as well. The only problem with this idea is that money would not be as great and storage space would be huge.<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 10:29 AM

You are describing exactly the concept that exists as a solution to a contradiction in the design field:<br><br>- Client: I'm going to need an ad but I don't have content. Designer, you "go first". I'll edit.<br>- Designer: How do I design something for no content?!? It's not "my business". I have no context! I can't possibly "go first". <br>- Reality: Unless the focus of the project is a newly discovered element (earth, air, fire, water, "TOOTHBRITE!"), the context/framework always exists for the designer to "go first". The designer most of the times just has to suck it up and be prepared for yet another project to be whittled away at by the client. Key here: divorce yourself from the project as a personal inspiration, study the peers of the focus piece and use the constraints of the predefined parameters as something to rebel against/be creative. Contrary to popular belief...working in a vacuum is NOT creative. Finding ways to swim while weighed down with 120lbs of bacon on your back...that's creative.<br><br>The rejected piece/stock campaigns site is actually a brilliant idea because it cashes in on the addage "One Man's Trash Is Another Man's Treasure". An ad for a tech-consulting firm rejected because the client had no b@ll$ does not mean the campaign wouldn't find a home with a more daring financier.<br><br>Go for it DJStefan.<br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 10:38 AM

Eh, I still don't trust that someone wouldn't just go on, look at the concepts and then just borrow certain elements and make it their own.<br><br>It would be serving essentially the same purpose as a design magazine or Communication Arts publication, IMO...<br><br>Now, if someone wanted to start a MM freelance agency- where we would all put our contact info and a few samples on the site or something, that's a different story...<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 10:50 AM

With all due respect...it sounds like you are saying you want your cake and eat it too.<br><br>I hear what you are saying, but If enough time was spent on the concept, there would be certain ways to prevent (casual) swiping...registration, login and activity logging would be one way...but there are other ways.<br><br>I work for DoD...we have certain techniques to prevent swiping classified materials through the browser, disable keys, disable right-click, disable drag...the model can be applied to any content. <br><br>You're basically dealing with the same problem faced by any piece of intellectual property on the internet so you have to accept the fact that there will be SOME losses.<br><br>You'd be working from the standpoint that your ideas would be a loss-leader, while the true goal would be to build relationships with the people who do business on the site.<br><br>If I can go so far as to make a prediction...here goes: Applications will become the next loss-leader. Companies will produce them on shoestring budgets to give away in order to collect information and get the ball rolling with potential customers. This will happen once corporate america learns how to tame the IT-Geeks and force them to work within budget. And it WILL happen...<br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:05 AM

As Seven explains, there are some losses. Then again, you do not really lose anything because of plagiarism. Someone can copy the idea from your website or from millions other on the world wide web. What you are offering is work partially done. <br>An example: The owner of a small company with about 5 employees and about 1 million $ in annual sales needs a professionnal flyer or pamphlet to be done. He can not afford to hire a graphic designer and having the project done from scratch and paying about 300-500$ while not even being sure of satisfaction at the end. So he goes on the website and looks through different layouts of pamphlets and flyers till he finds one that would match his needs. The owner sends in the text and we put it in the flyer for him. Total cost of lets say about 250$. The graphic designer who did the flyer for us takes his % which lets say is 40% or 100$. The graphic designer is happy beccause he got 100$ for something that was rejected trash to him in the first place. We are happy because we made 150$ for almost no work.<br>The custommer is happy because he knew in advance what he was getting and he got it for a cheaper price then having it done from scratch.<br><br>It's a 3 way win situation which translates into a perfect business strategy. :)<br><br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:07 AM

With all due respect...it sounds like you are saying you want your cake and eat it too.<br><br>I didn't want anything- it wasn't my idea!!! <br><br>I was just pointing out what I thought might be some flaws in the idea...<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:12 AM

Any idea has flaws, and any flaws can be corrected. A project of this size would probably have a minimum of 20-50 page description and strategic thinking related to it. It is not an overnight project or a 1 person project. <br>At the same time, collecting and selling usefull trash has always been a profitable business! <br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:18 AM

My bad for mindreading...I interpreted what you "want" as some line items from the bratty designer manifesto:<br><br>1.) The ability to design without any constraints<br>2.) Unquestioning patronage / acceptance of the item produced<br>3.) Sole credit for the item produced since it's guaranteed not to suck: see item #2, and a guarantee that nobody will ever reproduce the item anytimeanyplaceinthewholewideworldgalaxycomsos.<br>4.) Candy & cake at every meal<br><br>Not personally directing this at you DM...I worked in a studio for a few years and this was my general experience with my peers. It made me give up on the industry cause I felt like the TRUE focus of design as a career was self-help.<br><br>;o)<br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:32 AM

You forget, however, that deep down all designers are artists- and therein lies the conflict which we must deal with every day:<br><br>Creating something that is pleasing to look at, while at the same time making it 'marketable' for everyone who may be a candidate to buy the product...<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:34 AM

Yeah...that's why I switched careers a while back. Got into software development instead so I can emphasize function over aesthetics. Not to exclude...just emphasize. You can debate the logic of function, you cannot debate the logic of aesthetics. <br><br>I'd rather be an inventor, not an artist.<br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:41 AM

In marketing, you have to get into the skin of your clientelle. Feel what they feel and try to have the same needs. If you mix that with an artis't creativity, you have a professionnal advertising candidate.<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 11:50 AM

Aha, but you also need someone to design your software's logo, its packaging, its GUI, etc, etc...<br><br>Otherwise you have someone like Gizmo calling it an ugly, steaming POS...<br><br>So what are you saying, that designers are a bunch of whiners who need acceptance all the time?<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 12:08 PM

No actually I do that stuff as a personal "loss-leader" for any project. Thinking about it in those terms forced me to shed any self-importance I put on my designs. My point is to emphasize function over aesthetics and let function dictate the logic of aesthetics. NOT exclude aesthetics.<br><br>I did design for over eight years, three in a studio. I realized that, personally, I wasn't happy designing anymore because it wasn't a challenge. I felt like I was doing stuff in my sleep. I helped write a book on Photoshop for Hayden books. My peers sucked because each AIGA meeting was full of group hugs about "the client HATES us! why don't we ever get to BLAH BLAH BLAH". And the early days of the dotcom bubble whet my appetite for software development. <br><br>When that happened, I got tired of developers using my ignorance as a leverage for not working to my specs, so I taught myself development (and it turns out the developers WERE being manipulative).<br><br>I'm very lucky that things have turned out the way they have...<br><br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 12:18 PM

Thinking about it in those terms forced me to shed any self-importance I put on my designs.<br><br>I don't look at it as self-importance...I look at it as I'm proud of my design and I want it to be used as the final product. There's nothing wrong with that, is there?<br><br>I don't think I ever implied that I thought my design was the only solution to the problem, and I don't see myself as someone who tries to force my ideas on anyone. <br><br>If that's the types you've been dealing with, then I do sympathize...<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... *DELETED* - 11/12/03 12:24 PM

Post deleted by S3V3N
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 12:36 PM

You know, the only reason I love my work here is that whatever I design, no matter what the final design is, I see it published in thousands of copies. There is no better feeling than seeing your work come in printed in piles of 10 000 pcs and knowing that thousands of people will be seeing it. I always feel my heart beating faster and faster when I see my work published and there is not better feeling than that. :)<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 05:46 PM

Oh great. Stock ads. <br><br>Let's see, we have the proliferation of stock photography that has made it at best very difficult to sell a client on doing an original shoot. The audio industry has "needle-drops" and canned music. Even the film & video biz has stock footage. And now you wanna commoditize advertsisng creative?<br><br>C'mere, sonny. *SLAP!* <br>Now get outta here and go play in the back yard. Sheesh!<br><br><br>BTW, genius, even the creative the client rejects is still the agency's intellectual property no matter which individuals developed it. You can't just take a concept rejected by client A, and sell it to client B.<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 07:37 PM

I am talking about a world-wide business here. Let's face it, all the way from the audio business to the graphic design and photography business, they are all crashing. The competition is high out there and I am just proposing on making a few million $ off off it. <br>I am just using the most simple marketing strategy here:<br>- find a need/problem<br>- find a product/solution<br>- find the clientelle<br>- find the producer<br>- advertise the product/service<br>- sell the product/service<br><br>- become the next bill gates! <br><br>We are talking about hundreds of thousands of possible producers world-wide, and hundreds of thousands if not millions of possible clients world-wide. <br><br>I am not talking about being a single free lance graphic designer working out of a basement and designing logos for 50$ for the rest of my life. <br>I am talking about selling trash for 50$. <br><br>Remember, every company that made millions started with a crazy and not 100% ethical idea. <br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 07:40 PM

So far, all I see is a lot of entrepreneurial rhetoric, and very little practical ideas...<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 07:46 PM

Sorry Daddy Mac, I don't really see your empty pocket as a good investor, therefore I will not write a 50 page proposal on it just for you! :)<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 08:55 PM

Ouch! Apparently this thread has hit some nerves... <br><br>@Steve - I agree "stock" anything does connote cheap, but you probably aren't going to lose any fortune 500 clients to canned solutions...those clients are more likely to be found shopping for more personalized solutions.<br><br>Just think though, it might make panic junky PR firms might go away...<br><br>@Stefan - it's probably very far-reaching to think that a stock campaign site would rake in MILLIONS...given the fact that the crowd you are appealing to wouldn't be shelling out the bucks in the first place...they know what they are buying and the reason why they are buying it. <br><br>Realistically, the personal benefits of doing something like a stock campaign site would be an exercise outlet for creative muscle, while pulling down cash at a nickels and dimes pace.<br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/12/03 10:07 PM

Agreed, millions is exagerated. But you know what the chinese way is? 1 penny at a time makes a dollar! <br>When I had the comp. store, I used to try to make a minimum of 10% profit on it if not 20%, when the chinese dude down the street was selling computers for a 2-5 % margine. <br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 03:31 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I am just using the most simple marketing strategy here:<p><hr></blockquote><p>Got it, chief. <br><br>Now we need a kick@ss ad campaign to make everyone aware of this 2nd-hand creative service. I know... I think I have some concepts that Acme Septic Service rejected back in '94! I bet they'll work just fine. Perfect! Now... a name. We need a name. How about Morgan Admorial? Oh, and a positioning line, too. Got one right here: "Babies are our business. Our only business." Hey, Gerber hasn't used that line since 1972. No one will remember! <br><br>Yeah. I'm all over this now. It's The Real Thing, baby! <br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 07:45 AM

WOW! Youre really taking this up to the heart! Look at it this way, someone will do it someday soon anyway. So you have no choice but to take it, eat it and .... :)<br>Just joking! <br>you can say whatever you want, but if I would find an inverstor, I would do it no questions asked. Most likely I will not be able to find one, so I will be stuck doing pieces of art for nothing for the rest of my life while some rich mofo will do this project in the near future and become even richer. <br>Does this answer make you happier?<br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 08:05 AM

It just seems like there's too many legal and logistical obstacles to be met with here...<br><br>Like Steve said, the intellectual property of an unused ad campaign still belongs to the agency- most likely in case they want to revisit the concept someday...maybe put a new twist on it for the future...<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 09:08 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>WOW! Youre really taking this up to the heart!<p><hr></blockquote><p>Please, don't flatter yourself. While I admire your enthusiasm, I have to tell you that swiss cheese has fewer holes than this idea. And I will never get behind any idea that cheapens the creative process.<br><br>But that's just my .02. So, go for it, and maybe some day you can sneer at me from halfway up the Fortune 100. <br><br>
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 09:34 AM

i still don't get how you prevent somebody to just copy the idea and recreate it? the reasoning that you can do that anyway by copying an ad from a magazine, doesn't stand because you can't come up with a campaign that is similar to what has been done already.<br><br>i can see it working for low end logos, but not for campaigns or any promo material, because they are way too personalized to be able to use a stock creative.<br><br>also, i think stock photography is more expensive than getting it shoot by a photographer in most cases, because you have to make up or all the never used images that were shot.<br><br>in a creative stock library you would have the same problem, you'd need to do tonns of stuff and most of it will never be used.<br><br>if you would use trashed concept as a library than you'd end up with a library of creative like those free photo stock sites. lots of useless pictures. i never managed to find anything that i actually used in a real job on a site like this one: http://stock.d2.hu/<br><br>[color:blue]Your unsolicited Apple authority</font color=blue>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 10:20 AM

best of luck with that venture... and when it fails miserably, I promise not to say "I told you so!"<br><br><br>Visit Me!
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 10:39 AM

It's official...I'm outta this thread. <br><br>===================<br>[color:blue]"Does This Hole In The Ground Make My Ass Look Fat?"</font color=blue><br>----<br>S3V3N<br>Washington, DC USA
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 10:43 AM

I have only one more thing to say to all your put down comments:<br><br> [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img] [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/laugh.gif[/img] [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img] <br><br>___________________________________________<br>I'm just another Mac user at an 8 hour day Dilbert style cubicle job....<br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/13/03 10:56 AM

Not to mention that the best advertising is an idea that only the given brand can truly own. If you can apply an idea to any old brand, it's not unique. And if it's not unique, it's weak.<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/14/03 12:44 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> I think I have some concepts that Acme Septic Service rejected back in '94!<p><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, does that come with flashing GIFs and a MIDI theme song? <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Small measure of satisfaction... - 11/14/03 03:10 AM

No... but it's click-n-sniff if you have the right plugin. <br><br><br><br><br>Ewwwww... <br><br>