Lost innocence? Really?

Posted by: Lea

Lost innocence? Really? - 11/22/13 01:46 PM



Feel free to kick this over to the Box, but ~

This being the 50 year mark of Kennedy's assassination, it's everywhere. Living in Texas all my life? Over. It.

I had to mute the remote earlier today because I heard this one way too many times this week ~ " . . marked a loss of innocence for our country . . ."

Right. Let's just skip over slavery, the Civil War, Lincoln's assassination. Forget any flash forward to the Dust Bowl and the Great Depression. Don't worry about WWI or 2. Just flipping' blips in our history. Those bodies stacked up again the carnage of Viet Nam . . . the brutality of the Civil Rights Movement . . . Anybody want to talk about Sept. 11?

JFK's death was a loss of innocence to those who still worship a guy who was morally bankrupt and bought his way into the Oval. Thank goodness they're old.

OK. Over, done with, gone.

LL



Posted by: DLC

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/22/13 05:05 PM

I agree with much, but what politician doesn't BUY his/her place into office.... far too few do not.

Yeah that loss of innocence is way overplayed. I think we lost innocence when we started killing Indians and running them off THEIR land... the Indians had a piss poor immigration policy dealing with all those white illegal aliens !! wink

BUT Kennedy did show one thing, you could be a cad at home-womanizer, and STILL be a great leader. They are 2 separate things that the GOTP still does not recognize today!! Look at Nixon... good father and husband - f-ed up President !! Dirty politician as they come !! Look at W - loyal husband but a f-ed up President !! These 2 issues are totally independent !! Look at Clinton, more like JFK; but a helluva better POTUS than Nixon or W !!! grin
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/22/13 09:46 PM



+1

Pulling "A ZIMMERMAN" = Blaming the Victim
Posted by: MrB

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/22/13 10:55 PM

We've never had any innocence. But then neither did anyone else. The American experience is no better or worse than any other group when it comes to innocence.

Slaves, yes we went through that phase but then other countries did also. Some worse then us.
Aboriginal people. We treated ours the same as other groups had done when they moved into new lands. The Aboriginal Americans treated others if not exactly the same, at least as bad.
Part of the mystique of Kennedy was that he was young, had a posh wife and was rich.

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/22/13 11:23 PM

Originally Posted By: MrB
We've never had any innocence. But then neither did anyone else. The American experience is no better or worse than any other group when it comes to innocence.

Slaves, yes we went through that phase but then other countries did also. Some worse then us.
Aboriginal people. We treated ours the same as other groups had done when they moved into new lands. The Aboriginal Americans treated others if not exactly the same, at least as bad.
Part of the mystique of Kennedy was that he was young, had a posh wife and was rich.

Dave

+1
Posted by: steveg

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 02:35 AM

Well, really, calling a politician any politician a skank is kinda like calling a duck water-proof. grin And at least, unlike a certain sibling, he didn't literally drive off a bridge, drunk, and leave his passenger to drown and then somehow qualify for sainthood.

Yeah, Ted left behind a legacy of positive policy I'll give him that. But as a human being, he never should have been allowed to remain in a policy-making position. Self-contracdictory? Maybe. But the man matters as much as the work done, IMHO.
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 05:55 AM

JFK was a good person and did not deserve to die like that.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 06:31 AM

Originally Posted By: musicalmarv7
JFK was a good person and did not deserve to die like that.
Nobody deserves to die like that Marv, but I think you missed the whole point of her post.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 08:54 AM

I think it's less a case of actual innocence and more of how society perceived itself in the 50s and early 60s -- post WWII the rose-colored glasses were definitely on. Having come through the Great Depression and WWII as the most prosperous and (arguably) most powerful country in the world, much of American society saw Kennedy as the embodiment of the optimism, vitality and infallibility it saw in itself. His assassination took a chunk out of that illusion if not signaling its destruction altogether.

The "loss of innocence" was the recognition that we weren't as infallible or invulnerable as we had let ourselves believe.

And of course, over the decades, many people have put the rose-colored glasses back on when waxing nostalgic about the way "real America" was before November 1963. Regardless of wether you buy into that delusion or not, though, Kennedy's assassination did mark a turning point in how the country saw itself and the world.
Posted by: steveg

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 09:00 AM

Not to put too fine a point on it, but we really lost our innocence when Lenny Bruce got the mic! blush
Posted by: DLC

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 09:36 AM

Originally Posted By: steveg
Not to put too fine a point on it, but we really lost our innocence when Lenny Bruce got the mic! blush

LOL !! yep that contributed heavily !! laugh
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 11:17 AM



+1

Very well put.
Posted by: MrB

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 12:55 PM

The part about the rose colored glasses is right on target. I believe everyone looks in the past for ways to judge the present. But were the days or yore any better. Mostly not. I wonder how many of us would want to return to those days. I know there are parts of my life I wouldn't want to repeat.

Before running water. Before interior rest rooms and ones that flush. Before restrooms that allowed all ethnic groups (this is a major one). Before handicap ramps. Before automobiles( can we think about the horse crap in the streets). Before electricity.

I remember as a 13 year old, having to bathe in the kitchen sink. Not fun. We got a propane heating stove when I was about 14 or 15. Before that we cut our heating would from hedge (Bois d'arc )trees .

And do we really want to go back before the Internet or , God forbid, iPads

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 01:27 PM

Posted by: Nana

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: MrB

I remember as a 13 year old, having to bathe in the kitchen sink.
Dave

I bathed my daughter in the sink till the age of three. At age five, I would fill the bathtub to the brim & taught her how to doggie paddle. It was how she learned how to swim. blush
My daughter did the same with her children up until the same age. Except at age 5 she sent them to the YMCA to learn how to swim. laugh
Posted by: Nana

Re: Lost innocence? Really? - 11/23/13 01:55 PM

I remember JFK as a handsome very young prez with a pill box wearing wife. I wasn't into Jackie until she married Onassis.
It wasn't until I was in my 30's that I realized JFK had a back disease which caused him to sit down most of the time which had gotten worse all the while he was the prez.

Now I do remember watching this on TV!


shocked