The Hobbit

Posted by: Celandine

The Hobbit - 10/12/13 08:54 AM


Tonight on HBO 8PM EST



BE WARNED: This is only Part 1
Peter Jackson is taking every bit of care
that he took in the making of The Lord of the Ring
...and that meticulously beautiful attention to Detail
TAKES A GREAT DEAL Of TIME!
(I got Pt 1 for last Chistmas... IT'S GORGEOUS!)
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/12/13 11:17 AM


I'm looking forward to Pt2 for THIS Christmas

The Hobbit Part II:
"The Desolation of Smaug"
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: The Hobbit - 10/12/13 12:58 PM

Me too!
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/12/13 03:27 PM

I came in with great skepticism when I watched the first Hobbit movie. I read the Hobbit at 12 and waited 2 years or so before reading the rest of the books. The Hobbit has always been my favorite largely because of Bilbo - the reluctant hero in Bilbo always fascinated me more than Frodo. It is the only of the books I read more than once.

Anyway, the blaspheme that they would divide the book into 3 movies did not sit well with me. However, I saw the first one a while back and I have to admit it was pretty good. I do indeed look forward to the next installment.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Hobbit - 10/12/13 03:57 PM

The films incorporate a lot of stuff from the Silmarillion and other Tales, so it's not that Jackson is inventing the material.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/12/13 04:39 PM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
The films incorporate a lot of stuff from the Silmarillion and other Tales, so it's not that Jackson is inventing the material.


Yup Yup
The Silmarillion & more in order to both
make the tale more detailed & complete
and to make it more appealing to Adults.

I read Hobbit & The Lord of the Rings @ 15
and every year following that for the next
15 years or so... plus every other Tolkien
book including poems, songs, short stories
then The Silmarillion edited by Christopher.

I was sorry to have seen Jackson take out
Tom Bombadil, and replace him with Radagast
the Brown... for whatever reason...?

Even the Songs... both whimsical and heroic,
words AND TUNES are taken straight from
the books, or collections of poems & tales.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/12/13 05:48 PM


...ummm...

Should Bilbo Baggins look vaguely familiar
perhaps you'll recall seeing him in another
epic tale... only in that one, rather than
running off without a pocket handkerchief...
...he was leaving the Earth with his Towel.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/13/13 10:13 AM

.
Bored of the Rings (A Parody)
by Harvard Lampoon

"...When Dildo's eyes became adjusted to the pale light, he found that the grotto was almost filled by a wide, kidney-shaped lake where a nasty-looking clown named Goddam paddled noisily about on an old rubber sea horse. He ate raw fish and occasional side orders to travel from the outside world in the form of lost travelers like Dildo, and he greeted Dildo's unexpected entrance into his underground sauna in much the same way as he would the sudden arrival of a Chicken Delight truck. But like anyone with boggie ancestry, Goddam preferred the subtle approach in assaulting creatures over five inches high and weighing more than ten pounds, and consequently he challenged Dildo to a riddle game to gain time. Dildo, who had a sudden attack of amnesia regarding the fact that the dwarves were being made into chutney outside the cave, accepted...


...Stumped at last for a riddle to ask, he cried out. as his hand fell on his snub-nosed .38, "What have I got in my pocket?" This Goddam failed to answer, and growing impatient, he paddled up to Dildo, whining, "Let me see, let me see." Dildo obliged by pulling out the pistol and emptying it in Goddam's direction. The dark spoiled his aim, and he managed only to deflate the rubber boat, leaving Goddam to flounder. Goddam, who couldn't swim, reached out his hand to Dildo and begged him to pull him out, and, as he did, Dildo noticed an interesting looking ring on his finger and pulled it off. He would have finished Goddam off then and there, but pity stayed his hand. "It's a pity I've run out of bullets", he thought as he went back up the tunnel, pursued by Goddam's cries of rage..."
Posted by: Nana

Re: The Hobbit - 10/13/13 02:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine

Tonight on HBO 8PM EST



BE WARNED: This is only Part 1

HBO: Sunday, October 13 6:05 PM
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey

Same version that comes on at 8?
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/13/13 02:37 PM

Originally Posted By: Nana
Originally Posted By: Celandine

Tonight on HBO 8PM EST



BE WARNED: This is only Part 1

HBO: Sunday, October 13 6:05 PM
The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey

Same version that comes on at 8?


Yup smile

The First Part is "An Unexpected Journey"
The Second Part, "The Desolation of Smaug"
won't hit the Theater (& DVD) until 12/13/13
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Hobbit - 10/13/13 03:48 PM

Why would I want to watch that after watching the Orcs in Congress all week ?? whistle

laugh
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/13/13 04:30 PM

Originally Posted By: DLC
Why would I want to watch that after watching the Orcs in Congress all week ?? whistle

laugh

Silly Wabbit...
'cause you get to see 'em cutting the heads off the Orcs grin

jest sayin' whistle
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 06:54 AM

My understanding was that among a few other things, and entirely new female character was developed by Jackson's girlfriend.

Yes, I knew Martin somebody, from the British Office, Sherlock, and Hitchhiker's among other things was Bilbo - and a very good Bilbo indeed.

I really should learn his full name as much as I like him.

So, I suppose you are a big Hitchhiker's fan too Cel (the books not just the movie)? Our tastes in movies and comics are eerily similar, so.

edit: Looked it up: Martin FREEMAN Gotta remember that
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 06:57 AM

Just to remind myself I wasn't imagine the new female character (it was months and months ago I read about it) I looked it up.

here she is

I am not saying I am totally against it, but there you go.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 07:02 AM

She wasn't in the first of the films. So many elves, so little time!

Tolkein was not very big on females. If you leave aside Eowyn, who really wants to be a man, there are no human females in the four books, from The Hobbit to Return of the King. That says something about the sexual universe of mid-20th century Oxford, I guess.
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 07:39 AM

I read the books ages ago. My friends who read them more recently complain about the discrepancies more. As long as they are decent and don't depart overly much from the books I am happy.

Tolkien wasn't very big on darker "races" being anything but incontrovertibly evil either. I never really thought about that until the movies came out.
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 09:49 AM

Well you DO have a point ! Orc rally demolition !

Can't wait for the 2nd installment this December !!
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 10:04 AM


No, I wasn't a "HitchHiker" Fan no more than A "Dr. WHO" Fan
(I know them rather incidentally as Paulette IS (...a fan of both...)
Paulette (who I'm always "on" about and indeed tried to introduce
to the MacMinute Forum ..by proxy.. since she still doesn't own a
home computer is a fascinating character in her own right...

One facet of which is her unsurpassed ability To Relate A Story...

She'd watched "Mary Hartman, Mary Hartman" and even though I
never saw a single episode, I was able to "get" (fully appreciate)
the "Waxy-Yellow-Build-up" schtick as if I'd seen the entire program
start to finish.

ANYWHO:
Paulette was a Douglas Adams fan since "HitchHiker" as a Radio Play,
& the TV version. I didn't come onto it until years later watching the
Film version on PBS.

From that It was easy to recognize the Arthur Dent character from
the moment he got the Demolition Notice (just as they were about
to Bulldoze His House.. and Ford Prefect showed up, & convinced
Arthur to grab his towel & nip-off for a pint, before the Earth was
...well...you know...

What struck me was the remarkabe similarity and the initial reaction
between the two situations.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 10:15 AM


Also says something about our American obsession
with inserting in "A Love Interest" into every
movie ...whether the author intended to or not...

You also need to consider that it was initially
A) written as a bed-time-story for his kids
B) that grew into an ANTI-WAR Epic once his sons
got old enough to serve in combat during The War.

AFAIC:
It's no big flip that they introduced a female
from the order of Lesser (Sylvan) Elves to bring
more of Legolas's background to bear.

After all, Elves don't self-generate, no more
than do Dust-Bunnies develop into living Mice. wink
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 10:29 AM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
After all, Elves don't self-generate, no more
than do Dust-Bunnies develop into living Mice. wink

Are you telling us the Theory of Spontaneous Generation is bunk ? blush

Funny that's what Uncle Louis said !
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 11:02 AM


Even though it's never stated as such,
I'd always assumed that the "Southern Folk"
(accompanied by their 'oiliphants') were the
ancestors of what's become black African.


Yoyo is quite right in stating that there are what
seems to you to be gaping holes in the story...
...mainly because The Lord of the Rings is still
only a fragment of the Epic Saga of Middle Earth.

The Silmarilian describes the world as it was before
the Age of Man...even before Wizards. It fleshes out
the mere glimpses of their Mythology, you catch hints
of sprinkled throughout all four books.

It tells their Creation Mythology, of ancient wars &
alliances, ...Wars between 'Good & Evil", including
the story of how the Dark Lord made the RingS
of Power that he tricked the Kings of every other
Race of Being into accepting & wearing... about
how THE One Ring was forged in secret, to bring
them all together under HIS Domination.............

wtf...
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 11:06 AM

Originally Posted By: DLC
Originally Posted By: Celandine
After all, Elves don't self-generate, no more
than do Dust-Bunnies develop into living Mice. wink

Are you telling us the Theory of Spontaneous Generation is bunk ? blush

Funny that's what Uncle Louis said !



"Uncle Wouie"?
Wasn't that Elmer Fudd's uncle? crazy


Whoa! now THAT was a reach into the vaults of kid-dom! smile

*jest giving it a tug wink
or as Treebeard sez:
"Pull the Other One.. it feels better"
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 12:43 PM

LOL ! Yep that's Uncle Wouie ,da wraskel ! eh..eh..eh..eh..egh. grin
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 12:51 PM

Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 04:27 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine

Also says something about our American obsession
with inserting in "A Love Interest" into every
movie ...whether the author intended to or not...

You also need to consider that it was initially
A) written as a bed-time-story for his kids
B) that grew into an ANTI-WAR Epic once his sons
got old enough to serve in combat during The War.

AFAIC:
It's no big flip that they introduced a female
from the order of Lesser (Sylvan) Elves to bring
more of Legolas's background to bear.

After all, Elves don't self-generate, no more
than do Dust-Bunnies develop into living Mice. wink


I wasn't thinking love interest, but rather an independently functioning female heroine of some sort. The love interest is certainly there in Eowyn, want-to-be-man though she is.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 04:31 PM


I meant the addition of a
'ladyfriend' for Legolas.

It had never occurred to me that Eowyn,
'wanted-to-be-man' as wanting to "As-Good"
as a Man...worthy of being the King's Ward.
But as "A Shield-Maiden" which is seen as
acceptable & honorable among the Nordic races,
..which (to her mind) would be seen as desirable
to Aragorn (since she had no idea of his preference
for the hyper-lady-like Arwen Evenstar.)
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 04:35 PM

Eowyn had to be a woman because a Ringwraith can be killed by no man - no man. Wonder if Tolkien thought he was being ahead of his time when he done thunk that one up.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 04:44 PM


I don't think so...
...I have a fuzzy recollection of a similar
device being used somewhere in Greek Mythology

Not into looking it up right now
I'm due for a lie-down.
I'm still battling that infection. frown
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 05:58 PM

I'll settle for a love-interest elf.. enny day.

Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 06:39 PM

Liv Tyler, I think she's pretty hot too, it just freaks me out that Mr. Tyler is her Dad. He's so, you know, large mouthed and Aerosmithy.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/14/13 08:34 PM



No Man of Woman Born

"...when it is prophesied that no man can defeat me, I will keep in mind the increasing number of non-traditional gender roles."


A character receives a prophecy or curse of the form "X cannot happen until Y," where Y is seemingly impossible. X is frequently (but not always) the character's death or defeat.

Of course, Y ends up happening somehow, usually through some trick of wording or a loophole, with X promptly following.

Over-reliance on this phrase by the baddie usually leads to a delicious Oh Crap moment. It often involves a Eureka Moment, followed by the newly minted Magnificent Bastard drawing his sword and Cutting the Knot. Macbeth met his end at the hands of a man "born" via C-section, for example.

A subtrope of Prophecy Twist and Double Meaning; compare Prophetic Fallacy. Can be a form of False Reassurance. For some other instances of impossible conditions being met, see Impossible Task and Engagement Challenge. For when condition Y isn't really fulfilled but a half-assed excuse is used to justify X happening anyway, see Metaphorically True.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/15/13 10:44 PM


LOL Great line from the script!
...when the dwarves invite themselves
to Bilbo's dinner at "BagEnd"...


A dwarf walks passed Bilbo wiping a dish with
a scrap of cloth(?)
Bilbo snatches it out of his hand grumbling;
"That's a DOILY... not a Dish Rag!"
The dwarf mildly protests, "but it's full of holes!"
and Bilbo hisses, "It's called "Crochet!"

Only to be miss-heard by another dwarf walking
passed him ...smiling pleasantly & chiming in;
"AYE! Lovely Game!
...if you've got the balls for it.."

LOL gotta luv the Aussie sensaumma
when it comes to the LotR script writers! grin
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/15/13 11:16 PM

For some reason, Bilbo's quiet life in the shire and their little houses under little hillocks were fascinating to me. I was actually quite glad to see a lot of shire scenes in the first movie - so I guess I should be glad they have stretched things out to 3 movies.
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Hobbit - 10/15/13 11:18 PM

The Hobbit was my first extensive exposure to British English and British things in general. I actually thought Tolkien made up all those British spellings (hey I was 11) just to make the book feel more fantastic. He actually did make up a lot of words though like eleventy, etc. I also though shires etc. were something made up by Tolkien just for Hobbits to live in. blush
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/15/13 11:40 PM


In both movies, the Shire scenes were necessary
First and foremost, it's where both books begin:
""An Unexpected Journey" in "the Hobbit", and
"The Unexpected Party" in the LotR ("Fellowship")

...and to set the scene for establishing the
pastoral nature of Hobbits, that play against
their bravery that leads to saving MiddleEarth.

Isn't THIS Adorable? A Hobbit Bonsai! grin


BTW
if you haven't seen "The Making Of" videos
All the Scenes from both The Hobbit & The LotR
are entirely real! It was filmed entirely in
New Zealand.. and all the mountains, glaciers,
and forests (including those enormous trees)
are all very much real! Even Rivendell:)

They built the buildings, and interior scenery,
but when it came to The Shire, they found a
suitable scene, (including The Tree and Hill
atop "BagEnd" landscaped it, returned a year
later to trim the lawn and hedges, inserted a
Round Door and began filming.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Hobbit - 10/16/13 12:01 AM

Originally Posted By: lanovami
The Hobbit was my first extensive exposure to British English and British things in general. I actually thought Tolkien made up all those British spellings (hey I was 11) just to make the book feel more fantastic. He actually did make up a lot of words though like eleventy, etc. I also though shires etc. were something made up by Tolkien just for Hobbits to live in. blush


It was never established that MiddleEarth has
any relationship with England... it's more or
less an entire world unto itself that existed
long before man ever crawled out of the caves.

If you read the Silmarilian, it goes into more
detail about The very first beings, the Earth
Spirits (One of which is Tom Bombadil) who
existed even before Wizards, or the High Elves.

...but no, it was more than the whimsical
invention of a single writer (Prof Tolkien)
Tolkien was a professor of antiquities, I
believe, @ Cambridge who specialized in olde
writings... The Runes & Elvish-style script,
for instance, and very much real...
...and they follow an actual grammar and set
pronunciation... which Tolkien used as a basis
to create an entire highly detailed world,
that became so complete that it became almost
entirely believable.

...but yes, "Shires" really exist, even today.
Peter ("Treebeard") lives in a Shire in NSW. smile
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Hobbit - 10/16/13 07:13 AM

OH that bonzai is really cool !! Love it !! grin

But where's Mr. Baggins ?? whistle