The Bible Unearthed

Posted by: yoyo52

The Bible Unearthed - 09/30/13 09:32 PM

That's the name of the bedtime book I've been reading. It's pretty devastating, both to the historical accuracy of the Hebrew Bible and, therefore, to the validity of the Christian Bible. Specifically, the authors (both important scholars, one Israeli and the other Belgian) present very thorough archaeological evidence that the story of the Exodus is fiction, and that the narrative of the unification of the kingdom of Israel under David and then Solomon is equally fictitious. But if that's the case, then the whole Christian recapitulation of the Israelite wandering in the desert for forty years is pointless, and the business of "the root of Jesse" is irrelevant, and the story of Jesus as the sprig of that root also becomes irrelevant.

Anyway, a very interesting book, if a bit repetitive from time to time.
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 01:18 AM

Sounds interesting. The History channel, those bastions of historical accuracy , whistle, have a program on the military aspects of the Bible. In that they claim that the Israelites were not so much Enslaved in Egypt and that they did not just wander around in the desert those 40 years, lost, but that they took that time to build up their military might to to evade the "promise land"

I've always thought it interesting that God told the Hebrews that the land of Cannon was promised to them but somehow didn't inform the cannonites that He was promising it to them.

Rather like He promised Oklahoma to the Cherokee, I suppose

Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 01:23 AM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
?...the narrative of the unification of the kingdom of Israel under David and then Solomon is equally fictitious. But if that's the case, then the whole Christian recapitulation of the Israelite wandering in the desert for forty years is pointless, and the business of "the root of Jesse" is irrelevant


Oh my! I suppose that means that Mr Cox and I should be named Nebakanezer ?

Dave
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 08:36 AM

What the authors say is that it is literally impossible for the story of the Exodus to be true. They conclude that the "historical" books of the Hebrew Bible, basically The Pentateuch, Judges, and 1 and 2 Kings, are all cobbled together in the 7th century BCE, under King Josiah of Judah, in order to . . . wait for it . . . wait for it . . . justify Josiah's imperial ambitions. The whole cyclical turn of Israelite "history," as repeatedly the nations' sinfulness leads to expulsion and loss until a cleansing of the nation takes place and its restoration follows--all of that is political spinmeistership by Josiah's PR offices. To my mind, that's the greatest challenge to both the Hebrew and the Christian Bible since loss and recovery marks Israel as God's chosen people on the one hand, and defines the foundation for Christian redemption through Jesus on the other hand.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 08:38 AM

Originally Posted By: MrB
Originally Posted By: yoyo52
?...the narrative of the unification of the kingdom of Israel under David and then Solomon is equally fictitious. But if that's the case, then the whole Christian recapitulation of the Israelite wandering in the desert for forty years is pointless, and the business of "the root of Jesse" is irrelevant


Oh my! I suppose that means that Mr Cox and I should be named Nebakanezer ?

Dave

Why?
Did you see that Written on the Wall somewhere? blush
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 08:48 AM


I've always been the Problem Child
who'd question authority at every turn
(I'm of the opinion that RESPECT MUST BE EARNED)

Even as a child I used to question what most
people automatically took for granted, asking;
"Who Died and made You king?" smirk ...even of KINGS..

So it naturally followed that I asserted,
"Of course 'you're God's Chosen People'!
...YOU WROTE THE FLIPPIN' BOOK!...
Had I written it, all short, cute chicks
with big bazzooms would be God's Chosen People!" laugh
"
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 09:31 AM

Hey Yoyo ... BUT they did verify creation and the Garden of Eden with Adam and Eve didn't they ! wink . . . . Texas needs to know !! laugh


What many forget or ignore is this information was passed down for centuries by word of mouth- i.e. story telling.... it wasn't written down until much later in the Bible. Even the Dead Sea Scrolls were written but from the verbal stories! SO how much fact was adulterated ? (Guess that makes the story tellers adulterers !! laugh ) Seriously, and even when written and passed down during the Dark and Middle ages... how much was changed , tweaked, played up and moderated ? ANY one who thinks the King James Bible is really the literal word of God is a fool ! It has some good lessons in it and some good messages... but they're far from actual events and facts. I see them as a series of parables... just get the message and forget the details. The meat is in the message.

I loved how William Jennings Bryan asked the Biblical scholars at the Scopes trial, if the sun really stopped (means the earth stopped rotating) at the battle of Jerico, Why did we all not go flying off in space ? Musta been those aliens and their gravitational force field that saved the Israelites ! wink



Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 01:12 PM

Not disagreeing with you, but from what I read is that in th oldendays, the narration give from elders to youngins was stated pretty much from a stated memory with little paraphrasing. Hard to imagine in the curent era but then is was treated as fact. For example my grandad tells a story exactl as his told him and exactl as I wil tell mine

At least as what I've learned. They realized the importance of repeating verbatim

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 05:16 PM


ssssssooooooooooooo...
one person lies & everyone swears to it works for you?
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 08:33 PM

This book takes it for granted that much of what is reported in the historical books is legendary and has an oral source. What makes the book especially interesting is the argument that in the 7th century BCE Josiah's spinmeisters deliberately worked over those legends and oral stories in order to justify Josiah's imperial desires. A really really interesting book!
Posted by: drjohn

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 10:07 PM

fI'm about to chuckle...and go to bed. ;]-=-='
Posted by: drjohn

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 10:08 PM

I'm caught in a loop so fusk it!
Posted by: drjohn

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 10:11 PM

It's about a bad day and.........................
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/01/13 11:42 PM

Did they say anything about the historical existence of Moses? That would really bum me out if he had never been..
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 04:36 AM

There's no evidence at all for Moses or for the Exodus, which they say is a historical impossibility. They go into detail about really common sense points. First of all, the Egyptian Empire does not stop at the Red Sea. There were Egyptian fortified outposts all up and down the Negev, particularly along the coastline but inland as well. Second, there are no archaeological remains in the spot where the Israelites are supposed to have camped for some 30 of the 40 years wandering in the desert. There are no references to a sizable group of people in any of the other records of the period. There's no archaeological evidence for the supposed conquest of Canaan--apparently Jericho didn't have walls at the time! And so on.

I'm not a biblical scholar, so all I can do is report what these guys say, but as far as I can tell it's a really thorough analysis of the evidence in contrast to the biblical account.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 06:08 AM

The story of Moses, like the story of the Ark and many other bible stories is based off of earlier myths.

The stone tablets with the Ten Commandments for example, are likely fashioned off the Code of the Hammurabi code of Hammurabi
Posted by: DLC

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 07:08 AM

So the story of Jonah was just a "big fish" story !! laugh
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 08:01 AM

Ah, now it's getting really interesting? So what are detractors going to respond "oh, just a little glitch in the small details"

Very, very interesting

Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 08:05 AM

So, if no conquest of Canaan, as told, how do they say the Hebrews become to be in Canaan? Was there an area called Canaan at all?

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 08:29 AM


Joseph Campbell - "the Power of Myth" <<WIKI>>

Joseph Campbell - "the Power of Myth" <<YouTUBE>>
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 08:36 AM

Originally Posted By: MrB
So, if no conquest of Canaan, as told, how do they say the Hebrews become to be in Canaan? Was there an area called Canaan at all?

Dave


Looked up "the Bible Unearthed", and think I found the answer to my question as to how the Hebrews became in Canaan

They were already there. They were Canaanites . They just developed a distinct culture.

Dave
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 01:15 PM

Oh yes, Canaan is historically attested by all the folks of the area. The book treads a little lightly on what "Israelite" means, but the sense I get is that the Israelites are just another Canaanite tribe. The authors go through all of the typical archaeological evidence. The early towns and villages look just like the earl Canaanite towns and villages. The later larger cities are architecturally identical to Canaanite cities. The decorative motifs on pottery are identical to the motifs on Canaanite pottery. The difference seems to be geographical. The Canaanite towns and cities tend to be on the coastal plain, but the "Israelite" sites are invariably in the highlands.

There's a really fascinating chapter on what seems to be the first archaeologically attested actual major kingdom that also shows up in the Bible. It turns out that it's the kingdom founded in the 9th century BCE in the north, in Israel rather than Judah, by Omri and Ahab--Ahab is the guy who marries Jezebel. The Bible treats these folks as evil, and the book suggests that the reason for that is (1) that it is an Israelite rather than a Judahite kingdom that they found, whereas Josiah wants to assert the primacy of Judah and the theoretical superiority of the Davidic kings; and (2) the Omrite kingdom is not self-consciously exclusive of peoples who identify themselves as "Israelite." Jezebel herself is a Philistine, for instance, and yet Ahab marries her. So the Omrite kingdom is not just northern, but also inclusive rather than exclusive. From the point of view of Josiah, the authors say, both of those things have to be nipped in the bud. Another way of putting it is that the exclusivity of "Israel" as a nation is really a political move on the part of Josiah to cement his claims to political authenticity.

Let me say it again--a really interesting book!
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 01:46 PM

Well, of course, the Pentateuch is supposed to have been written by Moses. It always seemed plausible because he shows himself in a quite favorable light minus a few foibles. The story of Moses, his origins and background and subsequent deeds are about the only thing I found palatable in the Old Testament.

RIP Moses, it was fun while it lasted.
Posted by: Pirate

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 05:23 PM

To the victor goes the right to write the history, while the other side has its version that version does not count
Posted by: lanovami

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/02/13 05:40 PM

Indeed.
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/03/13 01:53 AM

Okay, you did it.

I just purchased this book for a friend who seemed interested in my discussion with him. I haven't purchased a paperback in three years

Dave
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/03/13 06:48 AM

Originally Posted By: SgtBaxter
The story of Moses, like the story of the Ark and many other bible stories is based off of earlier myths.

The stone tablets with the Ten Commandments for example, are likely fashioned off the Code of the Hammurabi


By Krackey, You're Right! shocked
I knew they were related, and have read the Laws
according to the Bible, but never having read The
Code of Hammurabi (until a 1/2 hour ago) I never
realized how closely the one mirrored the other.

Code of Hammurabi - Translation.pdf
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/03/13 07:29 AM

Now I feel responsible. I hope he likes it MrB!
Posted by: Celandine

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/03/13 07:56 AM


LOL
...and here I assumed recommending reading to
further enlightenment was in your job description.

(I'm sure he'll enjoy it, or MrB. wouldn't
have passed along the recommendation. smile )
Posted by: MrB

Re: The Bible Unearthed - 10/03/13 08:52 AM

My friend, John, likes discussing biblical topics. We can get into it sometimes. He will find this interesting, I have no doubt. I got it from Amazon for a bit under $11 in paperback withe no shipping because of Prime.

Dave