RIP Margaret Thatcher

Posted by: NucleusG4

RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/08/13 05:56 AM

Another icon has passed.... frown
Posted by: steveg

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/08/13 06:41 AM

Dayam... frown
Posted by: MrB

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/08/13 07:46 AM

Oh, no.

A classy lady

Dave
Posted by: Nana

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/08/13 07:53 AM

R.I.P.

Thought she was already dead. blush
Posted by: DLC

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/08/13 10:06 AM

Yep, sad thing. She really brought the UK from the brink of economic disaster created in the 1970s. Only someone with her strong will could have done it. She's ranked right under Churchill in the UK as far as most significant PMs in the 20th Century. Lord George is 3rd (no not W) !! wink

I still need to see "The Iron lady" blush
Posted by: carp

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/08/13 06:52 PM

I agree - she should really get more credit.

Plus I always thought - when she was younger she must have been one hot cookie laugh
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 03:43 AM

I guess I'll have to be the dissident and critical voice. I never thought of her as classy myself. Way too conservative. Though she mostly did, what apparently had to be done, she also increased overall government spending, especially on law and order. She also practiced economics very similar to reaganomics, mind you. wink
Posted by: lanovami

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 05:50 AM

Anyone remember the comeback hot by Tears for Fears called Sowinf the Seeds if Love? That song is a diatribe against Thatcher, her ideals, and her policies.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 07:37 AM

Her greatest political achievements included getting rid of Ted Heath, regaining the Falkland Islands, ending the Cold War with President Reagan, solving Northern Ireland, extending voting rights to union members, turning the economy around and telling everyone what to do. She was never abandoned by the people, only by wets and opportunists in her own party who finished up going nowhere. Beyond that she was a barrister and chemist.

km
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 07:57 AM

I am sorry that she died, as I'm sorry when most anything dies, including the fleas and ticks that my pets have and that I (reluctantly but resolutely) kill. But here's the Thatcher whose policies and politics I do not admire at all.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 08:25 AM

The article doesn't seem very objective. For example "always using the royal we" refers to a single incident when she said "we are a grandmother" which was a slip of a tongue. I could go on.

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 10:34 AM

I don't think you can still argue with the poverty and inequality graphs, Keymaker. They tell a nasty story. She also cut higher education spending, which indirectly, as well as directly, adds to the preservation of Britain's rigid class structure.

Kinda like the opposite of what Chavez did in these respects, despite his other, negative doings. :P
Posted by: steveg

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 10:37 AM

I guess you don't know hero worship when you see it. grin
Posted by: Leslie

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 10:57 AM

Two brushes, same tar; or whatever.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 11:12 AM

Sure I can argue with 'em... first of all the initial rise in so called 'poverty' would have been due to the actions of her predecessors and the subsequent fall attributable to the actions of her government. As for equality it's not even an objective.

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 11:22 AM

She was in power from 1979 to 1990. In the chart it is clearly visible how poverty started really climbing in 1985 reaching it's peak in 1990 and again in 1992, before starting to decline again. So her predecessors must've had some seriously profound, sophisitcated and long-fused poverty bombs in place.

And for equality not being an objective...it does often go hand in hand with how much money an individual has or has not in their possession, since we live in a society where everything is valued and traded in currency.
Posted by: keymaker

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 11:55 AM

Those bombs were definitely in place, no doubt about it. The 'right to buy' that her government extended to social housing tenants also stimulated the most important progress on economic equality of any post-war government.

km
Posted by: Leslie

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 12:03 PM

Quote:
As for equality it's not even an objective.

How lovely (NOT).
Another caring, compassionate politician.
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 12:11 PM

The decline she eventually managed to get in unemployment rate soon bounced back up after her leaving the office.

To the tune of this thread, Bloomberg ran this story.

Anyhow, what I found most interesting about her premiership was actually the fact that she increased social security and health spending both by 31,8% in real terms during her reign. Or that was just the direct result of other policies and effectually the criteria for social security benefits may not have changed.
Posted by: steveg

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 12:16 PM

Feathers, too? wink
Posted by: keymaker

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 12:27 PM

Quote:
How lovely...

No I mean it's not an objective of evolved democracies... only of Marxism.

km
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 12:32 PM

Now now, equality is also traditionally the objective of the Nordic model, despite the rest of the world tending to see us as snobbish besserwissers, because we like to brag about the model. laugh
Posted by: Leslie

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 01:05 PM

de·moc·ra·cy (d-mkr-s)
n. pl. de·moc·ra·cies
1. Government by the people, exercised either directly or through elected representatives.
2. A political or social unit that has such a government.
3. The common people, considered as the primary source of political power.
4. Majority rule.
5. The principles of social equality and respect for the individual within a community.

So when they "evolve", #5 is discarded?
Posted by: keymaker

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 01:30 PM

No the IFS isn't concerned with social equality but with wages, earnings and incomes. Social equality is largely what Thatcher achieved... which is why everyone kept voting her back into power.

km
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 01:32 PM

Originally Posted By: keymaker
Sure I can argue with 'em... first of all the initial rise in so called 'poverty' would have been due to the actions of her predecessors and the subsequent fall attributable to the actions of her government. As for equality it's not even an objective.

km



LOL.. we've tried that line over herewith the Bush/Obama scenario.. doesn't float here. Good luck on your side of the pond.
Posted by: Celandine

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 03:00 PM

Addressing the O.P.:

LO' on MT
Margaret Thatcher’s legacy of Socialism
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 05:33 PM

Originally Posted By: Celandine
Addressing the O.P.:

LO' on MT
Margaret Thatcher’s legacy of Socialism


I'm ok with that version.
Whichever lens you choose to view MT through.. she was iconic. I am no particular fan of MT .. or even Reagans politics, (although I liked him as a man).
Posted by: carp

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/09/13 07:10 PM

Well that statement is not really true . The government used to own many services like the bus service for example - she privatized them all. She was no more a socialist than Reagan was. Plus she had the foresight to keep Britain out of the ERUO , citing that smaller countries will fail under that system which we are seeing today with Greece , Portugal , Spain and a few others.

Mind you that her enemies, if she was in the US they would be;
Far right Conservative Republicans - Tea Party - Fox News branded media.

I heard these comments on the morning radio news.
Posted by: MicMeister

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/10/13 04:31 AM

True, can't call her socialist, although she did add to government spending, despite cutting from some areas, like higher education and housing.

To be honest, I don't think you can really blame the Euro itself for the problems today in Greece, Portugal, Spain, et al. even though some of their problems are most likely partially due to free flow of capital and goods - and all the eurosceptic populist movements (European version of the Tea Party) obviously like to blame it all on the euro and the European Union, aside from immigration, of course.

Actually, part of those countries debt is in reality money owed to German and French banks - as well as to other countries' banks, but to a smaller extent. If these debts were to be nulled immediately, they would next fall on to those banks and then on the taxpayers - again, as they already have fallen to every European Union taxpayer. The eurozone countries obviously pay more, but even those countries not in the eurozone pay a smaller share through their contribution to the EU budget. And, at the bottom of this is also the US subprime crisis when you dig deep enough.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/10/13 06:13 AM

The problems in different European countries derive from very different circumstances. In Spain, for instance, the economic crisis is almost a duplicate of the American crisis back in 2008--same banking shenanigans with the same result. The same kind of thing happened in Cyprus. So in both places the problems are a direct result of early 21st century pseudo-capitalism. In Greece the problem has a different source, a combination of really over-generous benefits to Greek citizens and an under-willingness on the part of those same citizens to pay their taxes. The benefits side of things is "socialistic," but it's not just socialism that's responsible for the problem.

From this side of the pond, it seems that the most socialistic of European nations--the Scandinavians--are doing pretty well.

edit: I put "socialism" in quotation marks because I don't really know that Greece or any other place in Europe is, strictly speaking, socialistic. If there is public ownership of the means of production, then yes--socialist; otherwise, I don't know what to call it.
Posted by: steveg

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/10/13 08:55 AM

Fear not. All is not lost.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/10/13 09:25 AM

smile smile smile
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: RIP Margaret Thatcher - 04/10/13 04:09 PM

grin