This is love.

Posted by: steveg

This is love. - 03/26/13 10:11 AM

Warning: Tissues Required.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/26/13 01:47 PM

Wow.
So sad.. and yet bittersweet.
Posted by: steveg

Re: This is love. - 03/26/13 02:00 PM

Having just given my oldest daughter away last summer, this one hit me right in the heart. I've watched it a half dozen times now, and still get wet-eyed.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/26/13 06:07 PM

Quote:
Having just given my oldest daughter away


OK, I admit this might not be the best time to voice my opinion because you are weepy.
However, I will.
I have a real aversion to that statement and all it's baggage. And I know you know better.
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: This is love. - 03/26/13 07:49 PM

.

A son is your son until he takes him a wife.

A daughter is your daughter the rest of your life.

.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/26/13 08:00 PM

Originally Posted By: Leslie
Quote:
Having just given my oldest daughter away


OK, I admit this might not be the best time to voice my opinion because you are weepy.
However, I will.
I have a real aversion to that statement and all it's baggage. And I know you know better.


?? Looks fine to me. A Dad typically gives his daughter away. In this case he clarifies which daughter by saying it was the oldest. Where's the baggage?
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: This is love. - 03/26/13 11:03 PM

The baggage comes from the old practices that underlie the common expression. Once upon a time a father in effect owned the daughter, and almost in a literal sense "gave" her to the future son-in-law. As Leslie said, that's not what Steve meant to suggest, but the connotation is still present for some, maybe a lot of people.
Posted by: steveg

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 03:52 AM

Wel excuuuuuuuuuuuse me! I had her listed on CraigsList for months and didn't get a single bite. So I had no choice but to give her away. Sheesh!

grin
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 04:41 AM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
The baggage comes from the old practices that underlie the common expression. Once upon a time a father in effect owned the daughter, and almost in a literal sense "gave" her to the future son-in-law. As Leslie said, that's not what Steve meant to suggest, but the connotation is still present for some, maybe a lot of people.


OK.. and in some sense it still means the same thing. I think a Father has more concern about the well being of a daughter than a son. Especially old school guys. He then cedes the responsibility to the new husband.
My, we sure can find the oddest things to b!tch about....
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 06:33 AM

At the beginning of the fourth act of The Tempest, after having made his future son in law, Ferdinand, struggle and work hard to demonstrate his good will, the main character of the play, Prospero, says the following to Ferdinand: "Then, as my gift and thine own acquisition / Worthily purchased take my daughter." Those lines always lead to a lot of discussion, centered on the question of the daughter's status. Is she an object to be "given" or "purchased"? From my point of view, that's not so odd a thing to b¡tch about, at least not in the play and in the historical period in which Shakespeare is writing, anyway. And that's the "baggage" that remains floating in the air.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:07 AM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
At the beginning of the fourth act of The Tempest, after having made his future son in law, Ferdinand, struggle and work hard to demonstrate his good will, the main character of the play, Prospero, says the following to Ferdinand: "Then, as my gift and thine own acquisition / Worthily purchased take my daughter." Those lines always lead to a lot of discussion, centered on the question of the daughter's status. Is she an object to be "given" or "purchased"? From my point of view, that's not so odd a thing to b¡tch about, at least not in the play and in the historical period in which Shakespeare is writing, anyway. And that's the "baggage" that remains floating in the air.


Ahem. Shakespearean era notwithstanding, does anyone in their right mind, in this day and age, actually think that Steve was treating his daughter as property or chattel?
Thought not.

If anyone wants to debate present day issues with old time mores and laws...we already have a nationwide debate going on about weapons and ownership. Leave Steve and his daughter in peace.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:08 AM

Besides, now that she's gone.. who the hell is Steve going to get to plow the acreage?
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:36 AM


Quote:
Leave Steve and his daughter in peace.

Trust me, Steve can look after himself.

I wasn't bitching I was expressing an opinion which I believe is welcomed and encouraged in this forum.

Language is a very powerful tool. I had a reaction to a statement and said so.
Also, as has been mentioned, we have some young ones who hang around here and nuance of language may be misleading.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:44 AM

Quote:
The baggage comes from the old practices that underlie the common expression. Once upon a time a father in effect owned the daughter, and almost in a literal sense "gave" her to the future son-in-law. As Leslie said, that's not what Steve meant to suggest, but the connotation is still present for some, maybe a lot of people.


Correct.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:46 AM

Originally Posted By: Leslie

Quote:
Leave Steve and his daughter in peace.

Trust me, Steve can look after himself.

I wasn't bitching I was expressing an opinion which I believe is welcomed and encouraged in this forum.

Language is a very powerful tool. I had a reaction to a statement and said so.
Also, as has been mentioned, we have some young ones who hang around here and nuance of language may be misleading.



Yeah? And I'm expressing my opinion, which I believe is also welcome on here.
Quote:
"Language is a very powerful tool. I had a reaction to a statement and said so."

Ditto.

Your statement was fine.. till I got to the chiding part.
Quote:
"And I know you know better."

Scuse me?
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:47 AM

Quote:
I think a Father has more concern about the well being of a daughter than a son. Especially old school guys. He then cedes the responsibility to the new husband.


Incorrect and just plain ludicrous.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 07:57 AM

Excuse me. I'm older and I know a lot of older guys who were more concerned about their daughters, especially in the 50's and 60's when women didn't work and the man was expected to take care of them So of course the father was concerned that the daughter would marry well.
Times have definitely changed and things are more equal today. So for here you are again dictating what others should think and calling out ludicrous because some people may feel that way.
On another note, there absolutely no way for you to prove or disprove that it is incorrect for anyone to believe in something. Narrow minded much? I didn't say I believe this, just that some fathers may have more concern for their daughters.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:07 AM

Originally Posted By: Leslie
Quote:
The baggage comes from the old practices that underlie the common expression. Once upon a time a father in effect owned the daughter, and almost in a literal sense "gave" her to the future son-in-law. As Leslie said, that's not what Steve meant to suggest, but the connotation is still present for some, maybe a lot of people.


Correct.



Giving Your Daughter Away.

The tradition of the father giving away his daughter has its underpinnings from the days of betrothals and arranged marriages. Daughters were considered their father's "property: and it was the right of the father to give his child to the groom. In some cultures, the groom "bought" his right to the bride.

Thankfully, times and cultures have largely changed, but the tradition continues a symbol that he approves of the marriage.

Not every father and daughter will want to have this part of the ceremony, although a father walking his daughter down the aisle is a well accepted and sometimes touching part of the ceremony.

Now, it will seem like you, Dad, are putting your daughter literally and figuratively into the arms and care of someone who is barely ready to accept the responsibility. But it is a wonderful gesture of confidence in your new son-in-law, and should be done graciously.
Posted by: steveg

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:08 AM

That was Daughter #1. #2 is still here. Heh heh heh.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:11 AM

I'm sure you are one proud dad.
Mine is only 4 years old.. I have a long way to go with her... sigh. crazy
She's home with me right now.. spring vacation started today.
Posted by: steveg

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:11 AM

Ok already. I just emailed her and she's agreed to leave hubby and come home if it will end this spat. Everybody happy now? smirk
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:12 AM

Being concerned that your daughter will "marry well" is a whole lot different than "ceding responsibility". Proves my point about language.

So if we are wishing our children to marry well, then I would suggest parents would want that equally for both their sons and daughters. In that regard, I found the statement incorrect and ludicrous because it gave preference to one child over another.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:17 AM

And my point is that old style mores and traditions are nothing to get up in arms about and start calling people out.
So you think a father doesn't have concern over wether a young man can take care of his daughter?
There are more ways than one to view this and that has been my point. You took it mean the lowest form and I'm saying that isn't necessarily the intent.

Is it just a tradition.. or does it also have to do with a father hoping his son-in-law can provide? Some of both I'm betting.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:19 AM

Somewhere in all of the "equality" something got lost that a father can be concerned for his daughter in a way that isn't necessarily true of a son.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:25 AM

Quote:
Giving Your Daughter Away


My visceral reaction was specifically to this wording and sentiment.

Yes, times have changed so we should stop using that phrase.
It no longer applies, that was my original point.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:27 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Somewhere in all of the "equality" something got lost that a father can be concerned for his daughter in a way that isn't necessarily true of a son.


Missed where that happened.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:41 AM

Really? Ok.
Posted by: Leslie

Re: This is love. - 03/27/13 08:43 AM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Really? Ok.


Will you show me where?