What the hell is going on?!?!?

Posted by: steveg

What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 08:50 AM

Another shooting!
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 09:43 AM

Some kids were shot, apparently. The insanity is just too much to take sometimes.
Posted by: Mike

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 09:58 AM

In an elementary school ? Oh, for God's sake!
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 10:17 AM

.
18 to20 children killed; 26 persons killed total.


.
Posted by: Nana

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 10:22 AM

What's going on? Two things come to mind...

#1 - Ass whuppings = child abuse

#2 - Time Outs (time to think on how to improve) = Future mass serial killers


That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it!
whistle
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 10:50 AM

At this point, the subject of gun control usually comes up, with the requisite "guns don't kill people, people do" defense from the pro-gun crowd.

I noticed this morning that in China a man attacked kindergarten children, stabbing 28 of them with a knife. Death toll? Zero.

Contrast that with today's tragedy here in the US -- 28 dead, 18 of which were children -- where basically the only difference was the weapon used.

Kind of makes the point, doesn't it?
Posted by: DLC

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 10:53 AM

Aren't you glad the NRA doesn't try to make nukes legal !! crazy

Jeezus !!! mad
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 11:32 AM

Originally Posted By: Nana
What's going on? Two things come to mind...

#1 - Ass whuppings = child abuse

#2 - Time Outs (time to think on how to improve) = Future mass serial killers

That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it!
whistle



Rryan Lanza 24 killed his father in NJ. Drove or CN where his mom worked for the school.

Killed his mom in her kindergarten class room.
.

Posted by: Leslie

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 11:53 AM

This gun sh*t is sickening.
Agreed Steve, time to address this maniacal obsession with owning guns.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 12:10 PM

I'm not for outlawing guns... but stricter control needs to be exercised now.
Posted by: DLC

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 12:25 PM

I'm for stricter gun control AND limiting clip sizes to 6 shots.
ONLY 1 reason anyone needs a 30 shot clip - mass killing !
You don't need that many shots to defend yourself- unless you're fighting an army which is unlikely in the US (or you're a Davidian ! wink )
Posted by: Mike

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 12:36 PM

I read comments on the news media sites where people suggest arming teachers. They cite incidents in Florida where guncarrying citizens have prevented armed robberies etc.
Is this what it's coming to? Everyone carries a gun in ths country?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 12:39 PM

Gun carrying citizens in Florida... oh.. like the Travon Martin case.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 12:46 PM

Don't want to legislate them... just want stricter gun controls. Not outlaw them... just better discernment on who gets one. Will that stop all crazed killings...no, but it will reduce them. I'm tired of reading about people who's kids got a hold of their guns or they accidentally shot their wives or kids or themselves while cleaning it or showing it to someone...etc.....
If you can't clean a gun you shouldn't own one. There should be a requirement to take some basic courses in order to own a weapon of this magnitude.
Posted by: Mike

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 01:15 PM

There are millions of guns out there now. Do you realize how easy it is to obtain a gun in this country illegally?
Posted by: steveg

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 01:16 PM

Reasonable guidelines should not be an object of fear for law-abiding, responsible gun owners. Hunters, sports shooters, collectors, etc. should have no problem with restrictions that simply separate guns from those who don't have an arguable need to own one, or who for legal or medical reasons shouldn't. But the NRA has to get out of the way and add value, not resistance, to the debate.
Posted by: Nana

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 02:12 PM

Originally Posted By: KateSorensen
Originally Posted By: Nana
What's going on? Two things come to mind...

#1 - Ass whuppings = child abuse

#2 - Time Outs (time to think on how to improve) = Future mass serial killers

That's my opinion & I'm sticking to it!
whistle



Rryan Lanza 24 killed his father in NJ. Drove or CN where his mom worked for the school.

Killed his mom in her kindergarten class room.
.


A source told Fox News that Lanza's mother and father, who were divorced, were also killed. It's not clear whether Lanza's mother, a teacher at the school, was killed there or at another location. Lanza's girlfriend and another friend are missing in New Jersey, according to law enforcement sources.
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/12/14/pol.../#ixzz2F3qWFRF7

My previous comment still stands.
Posted by: steveg

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 02:35 PM

The report of the father being found dead in Hoboken turned out to be erroneous. However, a brother, who lives in Newtown was killed, and in fact the shooter may have had the brother's ID on him. So even the shooter's identity is still not confirmed. I think this is going to take weeks to fully unpack.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 02:53 PM

Originally Posted By: Mike
There are millions of guns out there now. Do you realize how easy it is to obtain a gun in this country illegally?


Exactly. You just made my point. It's completely out of control.
Stronger, stricter controls on getting guns legally will make for fewer on the street illegally.
Posted by: MrB

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 04:31 PM

Just how easy is it to get a gun illegally? I hear this all the time but really how easy is this.

I say this because when I was a teen, I never thought about owning a hand gun but they were available to me at the local hardware store. At the age of 16 I could walk in , put down $95 and walk out with a revolver. Not a .22 either.

Several times these days I've wondered who I would go to to get an illegal gun. I can't think of any.

Of course, I don't buy dope so I don't know any dope dealers. With the prevelance of how harmless dope is and the number of peeps who supposedly use dope often, they must have a way to obtain it illegally, so these same dealers probably would have a way of getting illegal guns.

Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 04:33 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Originally Posted By: Mike
There are millions of guns out there now. Do you realize how easy it is to obtain a gun in this country illegally?


Exactly. You just made my point. It's completely out of control.
Stronger, stricter controls on getting guns legally will make for fewer on the street illegally.



I just don't believe this. Look at Chicago


Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 04:54 PM

Two reasons why there are shootings at schools.

One) the school is the focus of many folks idea of authority. It's the first area where they are subjected to authority. From the principals to their teacher and to where they may be subjected to assumed bullying.

Two) the school is almost certainly to be free of any protection from aggression . So the shooter will know his will be the only weapons there. Elementary schools especially, will have a majority of defenseless targets with few adults and thse adults will more likely be female whose qualifications and political associations there are opposite of being a hinderence to him. Thus more targets.
Few shooters choose a bar to shoot up: good chance of other weapons and peeps to use them. Few pick police stations. Very few. Few pick court houses though very little to keep a shooter from walkin in there and firing away except that little sign saying guns are restricted. The school has no obsticals in the way

Dave
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 05:27 PM

One thing to keep in mind when discussing all of this: Columbine, Va Tech, Tucson, Aurora, and now CT -- none of the perpetrators of these horrendous shootings were criminals beforehand and they didn't go through some nefarious underworld black market to get their weapons ...

So when the discussion gets to "the criminals will always find a way to get a gun," that's kind of beside the point, because none of these people were criminals and they were able to get their guns in the same way any other law-abiding citizen is able to ...

So maybe the focus shouldn't necessarily be on keeping guns out of the hands of criminals, but keeping them out of the hands of otherwise ordinary citizens who have a mental condition or are simply pissed-off at the world ...
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 07:36 PM

That's what I saying today... if we had better rules and regulations, if people were required to take a course on the proper way to clean a gun.. on how to store a gun away from a childs curious hands or a teens angst-ridden moments.. then there would be less opportunity for this crap.
These "kids" often get the guns from their parents house or a friends...
Posted by: MrB

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 07:36 PM

Actually, the killer had choices of what instrument to use for his carnage.as an example, I live right across the street from a school. Several times a day, classes of twenty some kids walk across the street to the activity area for PE the teacher leads them. If a person was predisposed he could mow them down in a car. There would be nothing to prevent it. All that has kept that from happening is that no one has wanted to do that.

Why has this not happened that we know of. It's that we aren't rob rammed for that. In the us when one considers mass murder, we think guns. Not cars. But cars are a lot more available . It's so easy to get a car illegally. How often do we hear that about guns.

Dave
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 07:49 PM

Yeah... but males lean towards guns. Always has been.
I a guy is going to take his own life.. it's often with a gun. not so with females... they do pills and booze or other methods. Guys have always gravitated towards the sudden violent ending.

I know this was a massacre today... but it touches on guns and kids and suicide, since he killed himself.

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/research/hicrc/firearms-research/gun-ownership-and-use/index.html
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 07:55 PM

Suicide Deaths
Suicide takes the lives of about 30,000 each year.
On an average day, one person ends their life every 17 minutes.
Every 1 hour and 39 minutes an elderly person kills him or herself.
Every 2 hours and 12 minutes a teenager/young adult kills him or herself.
Overall, it is the11th most common cause of death, more frequent than homicide which ranks 14th.
Among young people, it is the 3rd most common cause of death.
There are 4.1 male deaths by suicide for each female death.
Suicide Attempts
In an average year there are 734,000 annual attempts (estimated, no annual national data available).
For every death by suicide, there are 25 attempts.
Among youth, there are 100 to 200 attempts for every death - often used as a cry for help among the young.
Among the elderly, there are 4 attempts for every death - the elderly are most often the most lethal in carrying out the attempt.
There are 3 female attempts for each male attempt - males are more lethal in killing themselves, i.e., using guns. Nearly 60 percent of all suicides are done with a firearm.
5 million living Americans (estimated) have attempted to kill themselves.
Each suicide intimately affects at least 6 other people (estimated)

Survivors (Family members and friends of a loved one who died by suicide)

Each suicide intimately affects at least 6 other people (estimated)
Based on this estimate, there are approximately 4.5 million American survivors of suicide.
Suicide Among the Elderly (for more statistics see Suicide and the Elderly)
Suicide rates increase with age and are highest among age 65 and older.
Men account for 81 percent of suicides in that age group.
Suicide rates are highest for those who are divorced or widowed.
Suicide Among the Young
Among persons age 15 to 24, suicide is the third leading cause of death, behind accident and homicide.
Persons under age 25 account for approximately 16 percent of all suicides.
People living in a household where a firearm is kept are almost 5 times more likely to die by suicide than people who live in gun-free homes.
Suicide is the second leading cause of death for college age youth, as well as for ages 15 to 19 in many states.
NHSDA Report / SAMHSA (U.S. Dept of Health) - In 2000, over three million youth seriously considered suicide in the U.S. and of that number over one million attempted suicide. That equates to over 2700 attempts each day by young people between the ages of 12-17. This averages almost 2 attempts each minute.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 08:31 PM

Quote:
Not cars. But cars are a lot more available


But not nearly as effective. Think you can mow-down 20 people with a car? Not that easy. With a semi-automatic? Child's play.

The problem I have with today's gun laws is that it makes available to literally everyone perhaps the most legally efficient method of killing as many people as possible in the least amount of time.

The point isn't that, yes, if someone really wants to kill other people they will find a way; the point is why do we as a society feel an obligation to make it so easy to do so?

Gun control in and of itself isn't going to end people killing each other -- heck, it won't even end mass killings such as we've seen today. What it *will* do is make such things more difficult -- in order to get a 100-round clip, you *will* have to go to the underground market and not some mail order catalog -- that's the entire point.

Right now, we're handing out the tools for carnage on a platter. I guess I fail to understand the opposition to making that more difficult.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 09:34 PM

If you're determined to kill someone, it's easy enough to do if, as Lady Macbeth says, you screw your courage to the sticking place. Death has many routes. The issue is not that there are many ways of killing, but as s-o-o says, the ease with which guns make it possible to kill in great numbers. The "2nd amendment solutions" perspective presupposes that at some point or other "the people" (whatever that means in this context) will be under assault from federal &/or other government forces, and so "the people" can defend themselves from their own government. That's the idea at the heart of constitutional arguments, and everything else, like arming to protect oneself from robbers or whatever, just gets folded into it. By the way, the idea of every citizen armed to protect self from other selves worked out really really well in the old Wild West, didn't it. The idea of arming oneself as a protection against the government may have made sense in the 18th century (I don't concede that point, by the way, since I'm of the school that emphasizes the "well-trained militia" part of the amendment, and a "well-trained militia," in 21st century terms, means something like the National Guard, which is an arm of the government--but forget that for the sake of argument). So how well would that work in a world where the federal government has the largest fleet, air force, and army in the world? It's hard enough to fight city hall in the courts--think about fighting the US armed forces with a rag-tag bunch of self-professed militias. And even if that idea isn't daunting, think about the result--a civil war. That worked out really really well in the 19th century--the bloodiest war in US history. And think what would be happening elsewhere in the world while the US descended into civil war. Oh yeah--arming oneself as a protection against the government makes great sense. Yes indeed.

I'm not against people owning guns. I don't and wouldn't, but if someone else wants to have a gun to shoot deer or skeet or their own feet--more power to them. Or rather, limited fire-power to them. You don't need automatic weapons to do that.
Posted by: MrB

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 11:33 PM

Seven years ago my 39 year old son walked out to the middle of Lake Tannecomo Dam and jumped to his death. In Missouri
Four years ago my extremely bright highly academically courted grand nephew put a plastic bag over his head and died in his bed. He was is mothers only child. Well loved by everyone . They had no clue. In Tennessee.

Dave
Posted by: MrB

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/14/12 11:38 PM

Haven't heard which handgun he used. The Glock or Sig. Haven't heard which models they were either or what magazine clips he used. The rifle , I heard, was found in his trunk. Not used. It's still being mention as being at the scene. Make more interesting news.

Dave
Posted by: Nana

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/15/12 11:32 AM

Quote:
The gunman forced his way into the kindergarten-through-fourth-grade school, authorities said. He took three guns into the school - a Glock and a Sig Sauer, both semiautomatic pistols, and a .223-caliber Bushmaster rifle, according to an official who spoke on the condition of anonymity. The weapons were registered to his slain mother.

Quote:
At least one parent said Lanza's mother was a substitute teacher at the school. But her name did not appear on a staff list. And the official said investigators were unable to establish any connection so far between her and the school.

http://apnews.myway.com//article/20121215/DA36BP682.html
Posted by: Lea

Re: What the hell is going on?!?!? - 12/15/12 05:34 PM


Nothing works here. The arguments veer from gun control to finally understanding the mentally ill. Neither one is a solution all by itself. We've tipped the scales, and we pay the price. Personal freedom vs. our collective safety? Sell that to somebody who's running for public office.

Try selling it to me.

I can't remember the last time I cried when I looked at the front page of my Houston Chronicle. All I can do is say my prayers and know that they are a tiny part of an infinite number.

It ain't much, but it's all I've got.

Sigh. LL