SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT*

Posted by: MikeSellers

SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/19/05 07:36 PM

I was going to post this in Sam's thread but realized there may be some spoilers so I didn't want to PO anyone.<br><br>Some observations and questions (not necessarily about Episode III either).<br><br>I posted previously about being confused by the politics of SW so now it seems clearer. Palpatine engineered everything to bring about a war so he could build his clone army and take power. I'm still not sure how the politics of the first one played into that so I'll have to watch it again to see how it fits in.<br><br>Looking back to Episode V, Vader obviously knew Luke Skywalker's name but didn't know he was his son until the Emperor pointed it out. What, is Skywalker like Smith in their world?<br><br>Also, in Episode V, Yoda says to Obiwan "there is another" (potential savior), meaning Leia. Obiwan obviously knew about Leia so why did he have to be told?<br><br>They still didn't explain why Vader doesn't have the lightning zap like Sidious and Dooku and it wasn't because of brain damage like Pete suggested. Maybe it requires "real" hands and fingers. <br><br>I'm assuming the Storm Troopers from IV-VI are the renamed and still going Clone Army, but in white armor. Bobba Fett had to feel a little weird around them, knowing they (as well as he) were all cloned from his "dad." Maybe they opened up the gene pool later and cloned other guys.<br><br>3PO's memory was wiped but not R2's? Why not?<br><br>They wanted to hide Luke and Leia from the Emporer and Vader, so they put her with a high-profile Senator and he with family on Vader's home planet using the Skywalker name. Obviously, their witness relocation program needed some fine tuning.<br><br>In Episode V, when Vader realizes Padme gave birth, he also had to realize that Sidious lied to him when he claimed Vader had killed her. <br><br>Senator Organa's first wife must have died a couple of years later because the mother Leia claimed to remember in Episode VI obviously wasn't Padme. Unless the Force allows you to remember your own birth.<br><br>Boy, Obiwan could have saved the galaxy a lot of grief by finishing the job instead of walking away. Probably been more merciful to Anakin too. Maybe Sidious' new disciple would have been even worse.<br><br>They should have aged MacGregor more and made him look mid-40s. Otherwise the 20 years between III and VI weren't kind to him or Luke's Aunt and Uncle.<br><br>Yeah, I know it's asking a lot to think Lucas would have all the details worked out 25 years ago but it's still fun asking the questions.<br><br>
Posted by: Optimus_George

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/19/05 09:18 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Looking back to Episode V, Vader obviously knew Luke Skywalker's name but didn't know he was his son until the Emperor pointed it out. What, is Skywalker like Smith in their world?<p><hr></blockquote><p>No explanation other than the fact that Tatooine is a very distant planet and wasn't governed by the Republic. Perhaps far enough away that it didn't need to be hidden. Perhaps Vader's own feelings of Tatooine caused him to hide it's existence from himself.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Also, in Episode V, Yoda says to Obiwan "there is another" (potential savior), meaning Leia. Obiwan obviously knew about Leia so why did he have to be told?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Obi-Wan didn't realize that Leia was force sensitive like Luke was.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>They still didn't explain why Vader doesn't have the lightning zap like Sidious and Dooku and it wasn't because of brain damage like Pete suggested. Maybe it requires "real" hands and fingers.<p><hr></blockquote><p>While imposing, Vader lost most of himself and became a mere shell of the Jedi/Sith he could have been.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I'm assuming the Storm Troopers from IV-VI are the renamed and still going Clone Army, but in white armor. Bobba Fett had to feel a little weird around them, knowing they (as well as he) were all cloned from his "dad." Maybe they opened up the gene pool later and cloned other guys.<p><hr></blockquote><p>"Normal" people did join the Empire. I'm guessing the cloned troopers would have to be pushing 50 years old by Luke's time, so that makes no sense to have an army of aging men. Maybe that's why the Stormtroopers had such bad aim though.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>3PO's memory was wiped but not R2's? Why not?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Part of the plan, man. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>They should have aged MacGregor more and made him look mid-40s. Otherwise the 20 years between III and VI weren't kind to him or Luke's Aunt and Uncle.<p><hr></blockquote><p>He did look in his early to mid 40s...<br><br><br>The more I think about it, the more I like this movie. Not for the content as much as for the idea of everything behind it.
Posted by: carp

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/19/05 09:59 PM

[color:blue]They wanted to hide Luke and Leia from the Emporer and Vader, so they put her with a high-profile Senator and he with family on Vader's home planet using the Skywalker name. Obviously, their witness relocation program needed some fine tuning.</font color=blue><br><br>IMO;<br>Vader knew about Leia but he did not know about the twins separated at birth scenario. Simply Leia was the first born and eldest to Luke. So it makes sense to hide Leia with a powerful Senator that can protect her = Luke was hidden with a Uncle with the same family name as Skywalker <-- if I remember that correctly ?<br><br>[color:blue]Looking back to Episode V, Vader obviously knew Luke Skywalker's name but didn't know he was his son until the Emperor pointed it out. What, is Skywalker like Smith in their world?</font color=blue><br><br>Same reason above - plus yes with space travel so available to different planets them Smiths can really get around - sure hate to see the size of the Phone Books<br><br>[color:blue]Also, in Episode V, Yoda says to Obiwan "there is another" (potential savior), meaning Leia. Obiwan obviously knew about Leia so why did he have to be told?</font color=blue><br><br>If I remember the scene correctly ?<br>Obiwan knew about Leia but he did not know that the "Force was with her"<br>Yoda knew that Leia was capable because he could feel her in the "Force" for some reason Obiwan could not and to him that meant that she was not a potential savior<br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/19/05 10:36 PM

We are close to agreement.<br><br>However;<br>[color:blue]"Normal" people did join the Empire. I'm guessing the cloned troopers would have to be pushing 50 years old by Luke's time, so that makes no sense to have an army of aging men. Maybe that's why the Stormtroopers had such bad aim though.</font color=blue><br><br>Sorta like todays labor force, nobody wants the low paying jobs.<br>So makes sense the old "Storming the Castle" jobs were "cloned out" honestly who would wanna do that job ? Management was all volunteers.<br><br>[color:blue]3PO's memory was wiped but not R2's? Why not?</font color=blue><br><br>Simply 3POs was a Intel processor running a no name drive<br>R2s was a Power PC G5 running a Seagate warp drive <br><br>
Posted by: alAnonymous

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/20/05 08:40 AM

Uhhh... saw it last night. Didn't Luke make it outta the womb first? So technically HE was firstborn and oldest, not Leia.<br><br>How do you get that Vader knew about Leia and not Luke? <br><br>How do you get that Vader "figured out Palpatine lied to him about Padme's death"? She died on the table.<br><br>-------<br>Aren't you a little old for post-modern nostalgic irony?
Posted by: hayesk

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/20/05 07:48 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>3PO's memory was wiped but not R2's? Why not?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Vader built 3PO. Who knows if he could access his memory? Also, 3PO might blab. R2D2 can't talk.<br><br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/20/05 08:11 PM

Also, don't forget C3PO is gay, where as R2D2 is straight. <br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/20/05 08:15 PM

[color:blue]How do you get that Vader knew about Leia and not Luke?</font color=blue><br><br>The episode opens with the capture of Leia first - the attack on Luke's uncle farm was much later. Still Vader did not make the twin connection at that time, he was just hunting down all Jedi, hence the attack on the Skywalker Farm - ever wonder why Storm troopers simply did not steak out the farm until Luke showed up ? Besides at that time Luke was not yet trained as a Jedi, just had the family heritage.<br><br>Did I remember that correct or do I need to Rent the Frigging episodes again ? ?<br><br>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/21/05 06:24 AM

Vader suspected that the plans to the deathstar were loaded into a droid. The ST's checked out the escape pods and discovered one with droid tracks. They followed the droid tracks which lead them to the big Jawa Dune Crawler. Not sure if they destroyed the Skywalker Farm or Dune Crawler first in their hunt for the droids, but they were not aware of Luke's existance - though it is odd that Vader didn't detect a disturbance in the force when he was in orbit over Tatooine, that he later did detect in the Death Star.<br><br>Truth is a 3 edged sword.
Posted by: alAnonymous

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/21/05 08:22 AM

So next question: How is it that Leia was a "Princess" when her adopted father was just a Senator? <br><br>-------<br>Aren't you a little old for post-modern nostalgic irony?
Posted by: steveg

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/21/05 08:26 AM

Must've been a Kennedy. <br><br>Oops. Wrong forum. <br><br>
Posted by: Llewelyn

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/21/05 09:49 AM

Maybe that's how the titles are bestowed on Alderan.<br><br>Truth is a 3 edged sword.
Posted by: SgtBaxter

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/23/05 08:38 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>They still didn't explain why Vader doesn't have the lightning zap like Sidious and Dooku and it wasn't because of brain damage like Pete suggested. Maybe it requires "real" hands and fingers.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>This was indirectly answered in Episode I. Go watch it again ;)<br><br>[/quote]In Episode V, when Vader realizes Padme gave birth, he also had to realize that Sidious lied to him when he claimed Vader had killed her.[/quote]<br><br>When did he realize she gave birth? He had a dream of her dying in what he thought was childbirth... and never saw anything about the children living or dying. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Pete

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/23/05 08:46 AM

I think he was referring to the fact that since he realizes Luke was his son in 'Empire' (probably between IV and V, actually, since he's already bent on finding Luke at the beginning of V..), she (ipso facto) must have given birth.<br><br>So many layers, so many questions unanswered- I bet the licensed authors are *drooling* at the possibilities...<br><br><br><br>Back in Black...
Posted by: MikeSellers

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/29/05 09:38 PM

"This was indirectly answered in Episode I. Go watch it again"<br><br>Ummmm . . . hokay. Thanks for nothing, I guess. <br><br>
Posted by: trey

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 06:22 PM

Yeah, I just watched that horrible thing yesterday (getting my girl up to speed so we can go see III), and i didn't notice anything in answer to it. Of course, I also slept through most of that boring a$$ thing.<br><br>HOw long is that effin' race scene?<br><br>
Posted by: MikeSellers

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 06:45 PM

I wish I could get a copy of the fan-edited version that minimizes Jar Jar to a background character. Supposedly, it's tighter and a lot better film than the official version.<br><br>I saw III for a third time yesterday. My kids went along and a buddy of mine. Five minutes in, he says "This doesn't suck" and I have to agree. The love scenes are still hard to take and I'm going to rent a copy of American Graffiti soon just to see if Lucas has always written dialog so poorly. He had script help on AG, so maybe he left the mushy stuff to the other writers, something he should have down with SW.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 06:57 PM

The fan film doesn't make Jar Jar a background character, but rather they dub over his dialog with an alien language and use subtitles to make his contribution to the story more serious. It's actually kind of cool.<br><br>I still have mixed feelings on EpIII. I think there's plenty of idiotic stuff going on. For some reason, people think that dismemberment covers up any shortcomings. This movie is as equally dumb as the first two. Okay, maybe there aren't any poop jokes, but there are plenty of eye-rolling moments. R2's slapstick (and miraculous new capabilities), Wookie "Tarzan" calls and goofy droid dialog round out the cheesiness.<br><br>And Darth's smackdown at the end is far too quick. All that fighting on machinery going over a lava-fall just for a quick buzz of the lightsaber and it's over? [insert eyeroll here]<br><br>James Earl Jones had to have been laughing when he asked, "George... you really want me to say 'Nooooooooo!????"
Posted by: MikeSellers

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 07:23 PM

You can totally pick all of these films apart if you want to. I watched Ep IV with the kids after going to see III and parts of that make me cringe, especially the C3PO/R2 interaction. Personalitywise, 3PO is almost as loathesome as Jar Jar and the shtick hasn't aged well at all. And the Solo/Leia "banter" sounds as forced and uncomfortable as the Anakin/Padme love scenes from II and III. As others have pointed out, Anakin's turn to the dark side seemed rushed and even he didn't seem to be convinced. Plus, he's Darth Vader for only a few days and he's ready to kill Sidious and take his place which kind of takes the edge off of his killing him in Ep VI. Of course, if you read the Star Wars website, you know that Sidious didn't really die in Ep VI. <br><br>
Posted by:

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 07:26 PM

"Of course, if you read the Star Wars website, you know that Sidious didn't really die in Ep VI. "<br><br><br>SHHHHH!!! Don't ruin "Ep VII: Attack of the New Revengful Phantom Jar Jar Strike" for me!!!!!<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 07:31 PM

As a much more casual fan, here's the problem with the prequels. <br><br>Lucas started too far back. People want to know how things got to be the way they were in Ep IV, not how young Darth Vader behaved as a schoolboy. <br><br>Eps I, II and III should have all been about Annakin's turn to the dark side, and the subsequent rise of Vader. Lucas should've hired writers and directors (not art students with tinfoil hats to give each other CGI facials) to make decent movies. <br><br>I'll see III because it's Star Wars, but I have absolutely no expectations. <br><br>
Posted by:

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/30/05 07:33 PM

"to give each other CGI facials"<br><br>HAHAHAHA! Don't forget the green screen fisting and the wireframe glory hole!<br><br>
Posted by: adzoox

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/31/05 06:29 AM

Bail Organa (Jimmy Smits) was King of Alderan, but Senator/Representative of Alderan. Leia was his adopted daughter, on the toy packages she is listed as Princess Leia Organa.<br><br>This is also how Leia seems to have a little bit of a bankroll in IV-VI<br><br>She did know she was adopted, and know her real last name was Skywalker, that's why she was slightly surprised when Luke comes to save her and says, "I'm Luke Skywalker and I'm here to rescue you"<br><br>Her reply, "Who??"<br><br>Luke says, "Nevermind ... quick"<br><br>WWW.ADZOOX.COM & www.JACKWHISPERS.COM
Posted by: MikeSellers

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/31/05 07:32 AM

That sounds like a real stretch to me. Despite his comments to the contrary, I don't think Lucas had all the details worked out to that extent on the first one. Otherwise, he'd have left out the creepy kissing-your-sister stuff.<br><br>As an aside, what's with the hybrid royalty/democracy angle with all these planets? They keep going on about democracy and I guess they're elected but it seems weird to be elected as "Queen" and "King." And the children (Leia) are addressed as "Princess" but who elected them? Your father gets elected King for a few years but you get to be a Princess forever. WTF?!?!?!<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/31/05 07:49 AM

Maybe it's like presidents... you're called Mr. President for life. Dunno, just guessing.<br><br>Lucas always said these movies were about Vader, not Luke. I watched an interview with Mark Hammill over the weekend in which he described the first script he read to be titled "The Adventures of Luke Skywalker" based on "The Journal of the Whills" or something like that. The story of George's intentions with this saga have changed umpteen times over the years. I think he's full of crap... he's making this crap up as he goes.<br><br>
Posted by: Optimus_George

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/31/05 08:22 AM

The REAL story is about C3PO and his journey into gay-ness.<br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/31/05 06:07 PM

Heehee...<br><br> Revenge of the Sith: A Plot Summary<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: SW III: ?s/observations *SPOILER ALERT* - 05/31/05 07:46 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>]I think he's full of crap... he's making this crap up as he goes.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Exactly. Those that sit and try and figure out the master plan are playing a fool's game. Whatever does or does not happen is just because Lucas made it up. Out of thin air. Plot holes and all. <br><br>