Software activation - what a hassle

Posted by: Bryan

Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 01:01 PM

I was reading with great interest postings in another forum of people complaining about the forthcoming activation in CS2. Now granted, I am not a graphic designer and have no use for the software, but I have purchased other software that does use activation, and I hate it. <br><br>The problem is if you reinstall your OS a couple times a year as I do, then you have to go beg to the developer when you've exceeded whatever arbitrary limit they've decided is how many installations they're going to allow. <br><br>Use a serial number, use a dongle. But for crying out loud...software activation needs to go away...permanently. <br><br>
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:16 PM

Just curious, but why do you reinstall your OS a couple of times in a year? There's really no need for it. Clearing cache files and rebinding is just as effective, and takes a lot less time.<br><br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:23 PM

Which does a better job: cleaning around objects in your garage; or moving everything out into the driveway, cleaning it top to bottom and putting back only what you want? The former is easier, but the latter yields a cleaner and more organized garage.<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:25 PM

Why rebind? Not only is it done every time you use software update but each and every application will do the first time you run it if it hasn't be prebound before. All prebining does is speed up the launch of applications the first time you run them.<br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:26 PM

Your operating system is far, far more complex than a garage. That's not a good analogy at all.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:34 PM

"Your operating system is far, far more complex than a garage."<br><br>No, really, Captain Obvious?<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:40 PM

Hey it looked as if you needed it pointed out to you since you seem to have such a simplistic view of the OS. Make a simple and mistaken analogy? Learn to live with someone pointing out how inappropriate it is.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 04:42 PM

So, what's wrong with the analogy?<br><br>Assignment 2: explain how an old system runs better and occupies less disk space than a fresh system.<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:05 PM

Your OS is more like a modern car than a static storage shed like a garage. Do you take your car apart and put it back together? Most of us just clean it out once in a while and occasionally service it. <br><br>The argument was not whether an old system runs better than a new one, but simply whether it is better to reinstall a system that is working just fine just because you think it's better.<br><br>If your system isn't broken there is no need to reinstall it. In fact, OS X does a pretty good job of looking after itself, and as long as you keep it updated and let it do it's regular maintenace routines you should rarely if ever need to reinstall. If it's sick that's a different story.<br><br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:19 PM

Forget reinstalling the OS.....we've got ourselves a new Pope!<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:23 PM

What on Macs uses activation? I've never encountered anything, but are you saying the Mac version of the new CS is going to? <br><br>If so, it usually lasts about a week before a crack comes out, right?<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:24 PM

Yeah...CS2 will and you're right...it'll be hacked the day it comes out. <br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:28 PM

Yes, CS2 uses (will use it). More info here.<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:29 PM

LMAO<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:35 PM

Quark XPress 6 for Mac has activiation.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:41 PM

Wiping and reinstalling:<br><br>1) Forces me to back up the important stuff and...<br><br>2) Forces me to get rid of stuff I don't need or use anymore. Remember all those cutesy little apps I installed a while back and only played with once? Well, JoJo the VirtualSeaMonkey 1.0b2 still has preference files and app support crap laying around. Wiping gets me back to basics without having to tiptoe around while wondering what I can ditch and what I can't. No amount of "looking after itself" can let an OS magically know what files I'm not using anymore. How does Apple know that the 37MB PDF manual for Graphic Converter 2.4 can be given a proper burial? Be a pack rat if you want. Lord knows what beasties live in the corners of your garage.<br><br>Don't want to reinstall every so often? Then don't. But don't even dare try to tell me an old install runs better than a fresh one. That's what we're talking about here. And that's why I and others do it. Sure, it's not vital... but it is better. I'm sorry you're so afraid to give the drive a house cleaning once in a while. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Do you take your car apart and put it back together? Most of us just clean it out once in a while and occasionally service it. <br><p><hr></blockquote><p>Wow, you thought my analogy was bad? I'd hate to see your oil filter. Probably looks like a solid ring of sludge... kinda like your hard drive.<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 05:48 PM

Interesting. Lots of whining and crying in the comments, but some reasonable complaints as well. <br><br>I'd like to see what effect this has a year from now. Did sales go up? Down? The same? I'm just going to guess that they don't go up because of this forced activation scheme.<br><br>I wonder if more people will get interested in things like Gimp and Graphic Converter, or is it impossible to live without Photoshop and the others?<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 06:29 PM

They pretty much have over a barrel if you work in prepress for a commercial printer. Small agencies could use the open source stuff though.<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 06:50 PM

There is really no need to get all pissy and personal. But you started it so here goes.<br><br> You haven't got a clue what my department's or personal machines look like and you're just being presumptuous. I never made any put downs of your system, nor did I say that what you do is wrong. I'll repeat if for you so you can get it though your swollen skull - clean installs are sometimes necessary, but NOT if there is NOTHING wrong with your system.<br><br> You can do whatever the hell you please with your system and I couldn't give a rats ass — just don't YOU DARE presume to tell me that mine is [censored] when you haven't go the foggiest idea. Oh and by the way. It is perfectly acceptible to back up your system and throw stuff out that's not longer needed without doing a clean install. Some of us actually KNOW HOW to do that (and are even certified to do it). I'm not surprise that you apparently need to do an archive and install just so you can get a backup.<br><br>So thanks for the discussion but not for your ruining it with personal insults.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/04/05 07:22 PM

This is fun.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>You haven't got a clue what my department's or personal machines look like and you're just being presumptuous. <p><hr></blockquote><p>Again, Captain Obvious to the rescue. Of course I'm being presumptuous. How the hell would I know what they look like? I don't know whether you need thicker skin or a sense of humor or both. Or maybe a reinstall.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I never made any put downs of your system,<p><hr></blockquote><p>Can you put down a machine? If you think you can, seek therapy.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>It is perfectly acceptible to back up your system and throw stuff out that's not longer needed without doing a clean install. Some of us actually KNOW HOW to do that (and are even certified to do it).<p><hr></blockquote><p>Sure it's acceptable, but will never be AS GOOD AS a clean install, especially when it's practical. It's practical to do it on my machine because it takes two hours. It's not practical to rebuild a car, so bad analogy. It is practical to clean a garage. That's what my point was, and that's why some choose that path.<br><br>I wiped and installed my first use of Panther in Fall of '03. I let it on there until just this past February when I decided to wipe. Before the wipe, Safari took 5 bounces to launch. After, it took 2. I wonder why? Oh, that's right, reinstalling is a waste of time when the mystical OSX elves from Gumdrop Lane normally take care of that stuff whilst I dream of sugar plum fairies. (<--The elves aren't real. But I do dream of sugar plum fairies.)<br><br>Put 57 updates over OS9 all you want. (<--Obviously, you didn't actually do that. Relax. It's called "hyperbole.") And you're certified to back things up? How many minutes did that course take? (Hyperbole!)<br><br>What should we discuss next? How many layers of newspaper we put over dog sh!t before we mop the floor? (That's a ZING!) <br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 07:21 AM

I love software activation… it gives me something to do on a hot, sandstormy day! <br><br><br><br>CreativeGuy: For your "fix" of design software tips, tricks & commentary.
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 08:00 PM

While forcing you to back up may be a valid reason, or you can just back up anyway. Or if you do have a habit of installing kernel extensions and UNIX apps that pepper files everywhere, then that's another good reason.<br><br>But other than that, an old install runs exactly the same as a new install. The bits in the system's files are exactly the same and they don't change after time. The exact same code is loaded into RAM. Cleaning your caches and log files so the OS doesn't have to sift through them is the only thing you really need to do.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 08:16 PM

"But other than that, an old install runs exactly the same as a new install. The bits in the system's files are exactly the same and they don't change after time. The exact same code is loaded into RAM. "<br><br>True, especially if all you do is install nothing but system software and let your computer sit idle. But human beings actually use OSes, and more files get added over time. Hard drives continually have more and more files to sort through. So please explain how more files are faster to sort than less?<br><br>
Posted by: Dissenter

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 09:08 PM

Actually, that's not the way it works. It's quite easy to just deactivate your activation before you wipe your machine and then you can easily reactivate it when you do your fresh install. If you mess up, I am sure customer service will make things right. I used activation for Macromedia Director. I installed it on one computer at home even though it was for my work computer. I didn't realize it used activation when I started to install. It took me only 3 seconds to deactivate and that was that. Very hassle-free.<br><br>I agree with others in this thread that people don't need to do fresh installs unless they are just being careless in how they use their machines, like installing every shareware app and system utilities or prefs and menu apps and the like. A normal user should never have to do a fresh install and never have a slowdown because of the system getting out of sorts. Just leave your machine on all night and the system will do wonders to itself. Now, in the days of OS 9 things were quite different, but now the reinstall for most people is simply about perceptions, not reality.<br><br>Looks like a nice forum here. I tried Apple forums in the past and a long time ago I visited MacNN and participated now and then, but this place just seems like more of a community. Perhaps I'll stick around when I have time between projects (advertising). Adios.<br><br>
Posted by: iRock

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 09:13 PM

Welcome and thanks for your information.<br><br>
Posted by: SparkCollector

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 10:24 PM

G'Day Dissenter...<br><br>Advertising, ehhh?<br><br>If you're so inclined to hang out with a bunch of oddball Photoshop geeks and talk shop or any other weirdness that comes to mind, feel free to visit us (I'm Phosphor over there) at the <A HREF=http://www.adobeforums.com/cgi-bin/webx?14@251.9pzBd7KF90i.1386955@.1de5f598>[color:DARKCYAN]<U>Adobe Forums' Photoshop Lounge</U></FONT></A>. We can always use some new blood there, too. Sometimes we even get around to talking about Photoshop! Gotta watch out for the New Zealanders there, though. They're the oddest of our lot, but we let 'em stick around to fill out the late night crew.<br><br>Meantime, see ya 'round here.<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/05/05 11:55 PM

Well, the point is some software behometh should not dictate to me whether or not I can format my hard drive and reinstall whenever I want. That's my decision, not theirs. <br><br>We have accepted that when we buy a piece of software, we're only purchasing a license to use it, rather than any actual tangible property. At what point does it just become ridiculous?<br><br>Now, I realize that the activation schemes being talked about are not the end of the world. And if you made your bread and butter on Photoshop, you would tolerate any activation scheme Adobe threw your way. <br><br>I just hate the trend. What's next? Continuous monitoring over the Internet whenever you use the software? If they really wanted to stamp out casual (not all) privacy, use a dongle. But since they don't want to do that, they'd rather create the big brother activation database. <br><br>
Posted by: Mississauga

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:25 AM

I can't wait for OS X activation. All those cheating saps having to go back to OS 8.5!<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:27 AM

Hey..there's always the public beta..just set your computer back to 1999! <br><br>
Posted by: Mississauga

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:29 AM

... and Windows is FREE... isn't it?<br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:30 AM

That's right...after all, it does come free with the computer!<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:33 AM

"All those cheating saps having to go back to OS 8.5!"<br><br>With a few people on this thread, that won't be difficult... it's still under there somewhere! <br><br>
Posted by: Bryan

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:35 AM

That's right...because only an idiot would format their hard drive....you might need to run Action GoMac in classic some day!<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 04:37 AM

"you might need to run Action GoMac in classic some day!"<br><br>HAHA! Ah, the Action Utilities! Good times... good times.<br><br>
Posted by: zwei

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 06:33 AM

I always do a fresh install once the OS comes out ...I may do one more fresh install when it reaches 10.X.[color:red]7</font color=red> simply because the system can have things go funky because of the software updates being stacked on top of eachother (I've had no problems ...knock on wood) ...I also sometimes run the combo updaters instead of the small ones. <br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 06:36 AM

You're so wrong. Don't you see that people who never reinstall know that it does no good? <br><br>
Posted by: zwei

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 06:41 AM

I'm itching to do a reinstall right now ...if that damn tiger will ever get here.<br><br>I got a lot of stuff to throw out of the garage <br><br>
Posted by: Mississauga

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 10:21 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I'm itching to do a reinstall right now...<p><hr></blockquote><p>So do one anyways! They're fun, right?<br><br>
Posted by: zwei

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 11:13 AM

I can do one today ...and one tomorrow. ...and maybe one while I'm waiting for tiger to arrive in the mail <br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 11:15 AM

There's no need to be silly!<br><br>
Posted by: zwei

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 11:33 AM

Crap ...that was sarcastic wasn't it <br><br>
Posted by: Dissenter

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 01:00 PM

Why reinstall the OS if you take care of your machine? Other than your perceptions, what do you think you gain? You're treating your Mac with OS X like it's an old Mac OS 9 machine still running OS 9.<br><br>I think reinstalling with new major releases is fine. I will probably do it with Tiger as well just to ensure that old code is all wiped away. I believe I read that the OS developers try and wipe out old code and extras that are no longer necessary so that they can't accidentally cause issues later on, but there are hundreds of thousands of lines of code, so it's probably safe to just do the clean install with archive. My point is that it's not necessary to reinstall at random intervals between major releases. But, if it makes you feel better to have the reinstall force you to do a backup then you obviously have your strategy in place. More power to ya.<br><br>
Posted by: Dissenter

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 01:05 PM

Thanks man. I am pretty sure I registered there years ago and I've forgotten about it. I love PS and need to get back into doing some professional development via those forums as I have hit a comfortable spot in my profession. I need to learn some new tricks of the trade especially with a new PS coming out. My name there is JackonaMac or it might have been my first and last name that I am not willing to share here. Thanks again.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 01:37 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I will probably do it with Tiger as well just to ensure that old code is all wiped away.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Whoa! I thought this modern, new-fangled OS X took care of that stuff?? What about the 3am elves? The UNIX Fairy?? The gingerbread house is crumbling, I see...<br><br>I never said random reinstalls were necessary. I claimed that a new, fresh system runs snappier than an older system. So if you like having that piece of mind with each new OS release every two or three years, why not get that oh-so-fresh feeling every year or six months? Can't beat an iDouche.<br><br>
Posted by: snag

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 01:53 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I never said random reinstalls were necessary.<p><hr></blockquote><p><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>why not get that oh-so-fresh feeling every year or six months?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>LMAO<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 01:56 PM

??<br><br>
Posted by: Dissenter

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 02:12 PM

Well, he did ask for it. <br><br>
Posted by: MattMac112

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 02:22 PM

HAHAHHAHAHAHAHAA .. the iDouche.<br><br>There is no question OS X is snappier and feels more responsive after a thorough, cleansing iDouching. Matter of fact, the release of Tiger (Ocutember 49th) couldn't come at a better time. The ol' eMac needs an iDouching.<br><br>****************<br>no sig
Posted by: LoveTheBomb

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 07:31 PM

As a side note, I would like to say I spent the better part of the day reinstalling RedHat Enterprise on one of our Dell Servers and it's still not working 100%. Be glad that OS X is easy to reinstall wether you do it or not.<br><br>-Matt<br><br>
Posted by: alAnonymous

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/06/05 09:32 PM

I prefer "iColonic".<br><br>-------<br>Predictable. Consistent. Either way, it's the same thing.
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/07/05 08:11 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>True, especially if all you do is install nothing but system software and let your computer sit idle. But human beings actually use OSes, and more files get added over time. Hard drives continually have more and more files to sort through. So please explain how more files are faster to sort than less?<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Because your OS doesn't have to sort through all the files to get to the ones it needs. The filesystem uses B-trees to store file indices. It can reach a single file out of half a million by traversing only a few levels deep of a index tree.<br><br>Even when indexing for searching through them. It only has to index a file when it changes. When you search for text content, it goes through the index, not through every file.<br><br>The only time adding more files will slow down your computer is if you run software that has to load all of those files. For example, Safari loads all of those little site icons from cache files, so it can slow down if it has a lot of those to load. (although I would load them as I need them, I don't know if Safari does that now)<br><br>The OS doesn't really load anything more than what it does from a fresh install. The only thing I can think of is to add services to the Services menu, which doesn't take long at all, and any Startup Items you have set yourself, which can easily be removed.<br><br>
Posted by: LoveTheBomb

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/07/05 09:10 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The only time adding more files will slow down your computer is if you run software that has to load all of those files<p><hr></blockquote><p>Not true. I filled my startup disk up completely and kept having kernel panics.<br><br>
Posted by: trey

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/07/05 09:27 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I filled my startup disk up completely and kept having kernel panics.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>But that's just a function of the way OS X works. It needs some "head-room" on the hard drive in order to function properly. Even if you had just installed it, I would think that OS X would choke on a full/inadequately sized hard drive.<br><br>
Posted by: LoveTheBomb

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/08/05 05:08 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But that's just a function of the way OS X works. It needs some "head-room" on the hard drive in order to function properly. Even if you had just installed it, I would think that OS X would choke on a full/inadequately sized hard drive.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Oh, I know. I was just poking fun at this whole conversation (though it actually has happened to me while importing DV). I really don't understand what the big deal is if some people do a clean install and some people just upgrade. Neither actually harm anything. Each one has its merits and disadvantages.<br><br>Personally, I like to do an archive install twice a year. Part of the reason is because I install a lot of unix applications (php, mysql, subversion, etc...). Archive install forces me to think about what I've installed and use and see if there are any upgrades. I also clean out my ~/Library folder every couple months. If there are applications I don't use, why should I still keep their preferences around? But what works for me might not work for other people. For instance, it's very time consuming.<br><br>
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/09/05 02:32 PM

Heh heh, good point.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/09/05 02:36 PM

Hey! GoMac was a great little utility. <br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Software activation - what a hassle - 04/09/05 02:42 PM

I just cloned my system and apps to a larger partition earlier today, and QXP thought it had been reinstalled on new hardware, and required re-activation. One click and 2 seconds later it was done. But I hear ya. It's a nuisance.<br><br>