The NO POLITICS rule

Posted by: Anonymous

The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 05:00 AM

The NO POLITICS "rule" is stupid if you ask me. Why the hell are you people so opposed to the occasional political thread here? We live in a world in turmoil, politics is part of what is happening these days. Yes, you do not have to participate in political discussions, that is your choice. But, I will post whatever I want here. Don't like it, then don't read the thread.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 07:41 AM

well, people in this community can post whatever they want (within the rules). if people respond, the thread will take off. if not, you'll have to bump it yourself to keep it afloat. i have theories on people who don't want to participate in political threads:<br>(1) not smart enough to comprehend the subject<br>(2) doesn't understand the importance of the political decisions in their own daily lives<br>(3) our political threads tend to be USA-centric...many people live elsewhere<br>(4) wishy-washy as to where they stand on issues (e.g., an independent)<br>(5) spends too much time talking politix in the real world and wants something else online<br>(6) realizes that people rarely change their minda...so what's the point?<br>(7) hates to read comments from people on the extremes (e.g., i hate bush...i hate daschle) and feels causes threads to quickly degrade<br><br>of course, there could be other reasons and i am not claiming that #1 above is any more likely than #6...i just randomly threw them up there. i am guessing most people here fall into #6, #7, and #3 with a few #4's. <br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
Posted by: Biggerfoot

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 07:43 AM

#7 is what tuned me out.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 07:48 AM

# 7 is the winner with me<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 08:14 AM

Actually, I don't mind a good political debate.... however, MC is just burried in them and it seems everyone takes them so personal and it just ends up degrading into a shouting/name-calling match.<br><br>I know that we (the MC folks) came over here for different reasons, but I have "STAYED" over here because thus far I don't believe we have had one single name-calling, ugly, overly-opinionated or outright rude post yet. I like that.<br><br>I come here to get away from the "real-world" for a while each day. As the events of the last week in my life reminded me, I have better things to do than argue with people. It shouldn't come down to that every time, but lets face it; if you look over at MC at virtually every politics related thread, someone is ALWAYS being rude. <br><br>Politics are a personal preference, and as such usually carries strong feelings with it. I think just about everyone gets a little worked-up about it when talking with others who don't have similar ideas or beliefs. I think this is also why you probably don't see threads discussing religion or abortion here... <br><br>I for one welcome any post made here, I just think I speak for many people here when I say, "we like to keep it on the lighter side of life."<br><br>
Posted by: hayesk

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 08:17 AM

Yep, #7 is the one, maybe a little of #6 too. People who are really interested in politics tend to have viewpoints on the extreme left or extreme right. Too often they refuse to acknowledge that the solutions take time (i.e. more than one term), and that the solutions often lie somewhere in between the extremes. Your point #4 is a good example of that. ;)<br><br>I disagree with points 1 and 2 - I think the people here deserve more credit.<br><br>Also, people tend to say things like "well, they tried it in this place and it didn't work so the whole idea sucks." Instead of scrapping the idea, why not take some of the good parts and tweak 'em?<br><br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 08:35 AM

Giz..I agree with you, this place is an excape from the real world. I look forward to my visits, some bring laughter, some bring tears. Everyone wants to treat politics as a black and white subject, but I feel it is totally gray. I'am sorry I did not note who made the comment about participation. If you jump in that's OK, if you want to lurk, that's cool also, or pick another thread and move on. I have enought stress in my life to get into a political name calling in this place. I've been in the Army for mosty of my adult life. Based upon my experiences I have a strong view on the current world issues, but they are my views and I keep them to myself. I feel if you are going to be a trash talking maggot, crawl off to a slime hole where you feel you can grow in that filth. If you want to stay at MM, exercise control, responsibility and respect!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 08:35 AM

well, i give people here a lot of credit, which is why i said that most people will be #6 and #7 (and #3). give me some credit . we do have teenagers who frequent the forums. not many teenagers *really* understand politics (#2) -- many schools teach gov't in the senior year, plus there's all that adolescent stuff to get past first. as for #1, i am not placing a lot of weight on this one, but i don't think it is out of the realm of possibility for a few people (and i have nobody in particular in mind).<br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 08:47 AM

Pretty much 5, 6, and 7 on my end...I get enough of that on the 'other' forum. If you want so badly to take part in a heavy-handed discussion about our foreign policy, my advice would be to go over there and do it...<br><br>And I don't know if being able to participate in those types of discussions has anything to do with being 'smart', as you put it Sean...<br><br>I would say I'm a pretty intelligent guy when it comes to a lot of matters in life, but maybe I don't know about every single injustice or flaw in our government- so does that make me an idiot? I try to hold my own in matters that I know about, and will pretty much avoid those threads populated by people who are so staunch in their beliefs that it's not even worth arguing about. <br><br>Of course, I AM guilty of getting tangled up with quite a few of the 'extremists', I must admit... But that's only because I love a good scrap sometimes- as long as they can stay civil and relatively objective...<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 09:06 AM

This is my sense of politicaql threads, here or anywhere else on line. Often they begin intelligently enough. However, pretty soon all that one can do is repeat the same point over and over again. The result is not particularly satisfying, so everyone gets irate, and because the whole thing is taking place long-distance, and the interlocutor is not actually in front of you, the discussion begins to descend into adhomination. Pretty soon that declines as well, and then we get to the "says who" or "so's your mother" stage of the discussion.<br><br>In short, nothing is resolved, nothing really gets discusses seriously, and all that issues is hot air.<br><br>None of this is to say that politics is not important. Obviously it is. But Tip O'Neill said it most succinctly: All politics is local. The problem with the web as a mode of communicating political ideas is that the web is never local.<br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: sean

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 09:50 AM

"And I don't know if being able to participate in those types of discussions has anything to do with being 'smart', as you put it Sean..."<br><br>ONCE again, i am not saying that any ONE person here is not smart enough to discuss politics, but when the MC forum has 15,000+ members, you'd better believe that a few of those people probably aren't very smart. i think we mac users tend to be a cut above and i give people here a MM a lot of credit when it comes to serious discussion. the numbers i suggested are not all inclusive by any means and were presented as a few possible theories...some people don't have time to watch CNN 24/7 to keep up on some minor, but specific topic being discussed that day. i also think some people don't like to reveal too much personally, so they likely won't participate in a thread that requires taking a position and defending it. i use my real name and don't try to hide much. plus, i live in one of the most conservative areas of the country...you'd better believe that i often hold back on what i really think because i fear potential repercussions from my students and/or my peers at my university. and then there are people in my community who could use my thoughts against me (e.g., i'd like to run for the school board in a few years).<br><br>AGAIN, i think most of us are pretty intelligent and capable of discussing a whole host of varied topics. of course i include you in this group. <br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 10:11 AM

Oh don't get me wrong- I wasn't taking offense and thinking that you called me a moron...<br><br>I just thought that seemed a little too broad of a sentence as it related to political/world discussions.<br><br>Maybe 'uninformed' would be a lot more accurate. Yes, sometimes a lot of us are uninformed on such matters that others seem to know EVERYTHING about - or at least think they do!<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 11:37 AM

POLI<br><br><br>
Posted by: MachOne

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 12:07 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But, I will post whatever I want here. Don't like it, then don't read the thread. <p><hr></blockquote><p>That rule is self-imposed Mike. The Mods don't have any such rule and frankly they seem pretty tolerant for the most part.<br><br>If you want to post politics, particularly American politics, you won't get me hassling you about it. You won't get me participating either, since I don't live in the US and most of what I've seen 'discussed' in the past has been people with opposing party leanings abusing each other's choices.<br><br>And just to break my own 'rule', the 2 major American parties are so similar in philosophy that the differences between them seem to an outsider such as myself as so subtle and meaningless that I'm amazed anyone can get up a head of steam about those issues at all.<br><br>But, post on Mike. This is my first and last response to a political thread here. I will, however, respond to your posts on other topics where I feel I can contribute something, and it would be a shame if you stopped posting here altogether.<br><br>I for one value your contribnution to this forum. <br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 12:12 PM

Yeah... I'm with Mach... wish you came around more... we miss having you here.<br><br>
Posted by: margadagio

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 12:13 PM

I agree with you Giz. I migrated to this forum to escape the problems of the real world. I have my own share of problems to deal with. I need a certain amount of fun. <br><br>Unlike some here, I don't have a problem with MC. I know certain folks to stay away from there and I exercise that perogative. It was interesting at first to read some of the political threads. Being Canadian, I had little knowledge of American politics. It didn't take me long though to get quite bored with same old nonsence over and over.<br><br>Having said this, if someone wants to post something intelligent here that's fine by me but I won't be participating in that thread. If others feel the same way as I then they too can just stay away.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 12:21 PM

6 and 7 for me.<br><br>Its not so much about having the threads. Just that at MC sometimes 7 out of 10 threads are political in nature, like the forum should change its name to Mac Politics or something. Last month almost the whole main page was a bitch match.<br><br>A few political threads are fine I just don't care fore it when it takes over the forum.<br><br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 12:36 PM

.. you left out:<br><br>8.) they're embarrassed that their party's President Bush is not the easiest President to praise or defend in debate, and so they'd rather have debates in general silence, which is in itself, politics.<br><br>Yes, whoever initiated the 'no politics rule' here did so contrary to the forum's set guidelines, the initial reason why many left MC in the first place, but AHH.. how short our long term memory.<br><br>Don't worry, I won't break up your little 'click' and politic in these realms, since, at present, the pressure to control content is stronger here than at MC.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 12:53 PM

Who wrote this rule? Is it a Rule or is it a "rule?" Who supervises it?<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 01:09 PM

9) See, that's why we don't get into it- because more often than not, someone likes to rock the boat...<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:22 PM

It's not a rule... it's just that most of the posters here don't care to discuss politics or religion here... we all certainly welcome anyone to post something about it... but you probably won't get much response.<br><br>
Posted by: Lori

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:25 PM

Mike...there is no such rule. We were all playing around one day welcoming a new poster I think. Someone was just kidding around when they posted (made up rules) these rules. It was all just in fun...at least that is the way I took it.<br><br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 01:31 PM

and you left out 10) When people post inflamatory remarks to try to instigate others so that they can get their rocks off. NTO1, if you don't like it here, leave. Free world.<br><br>With that...I'll take #11.<br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:33 PM

Good josh...all this about a "Rule" on politics. Just how bad does it get with real political stuff?<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:34 PM

Oh. I don't really care myself. I don't like to discuss politics or religion with people I can't see, since there is no real way of knowing who is on the other end and how they might respond. This topic just happened to be at the top of the list when I came to this page, and since I don't really know the landscape here, I thought I would ask.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 01:34 PM

I don't believe we have enough options here... I may require 15 to 20 options to make a fair and wise decision... which will certainly be, um, naaahhhhhh!!!<br><br>
Posted by: Lori

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:38 PM

On this forum, it is not bad at all. Over at Maccentral, there are a lot of political threads. I truthfully have never participated in any of them mostly because i am not that informed on politics. I just skip over most of them.<br><br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:43 PM

You served those pumpkins too much Tequila, I think! <br><br>
Posted by: Krasni

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 01:57 PM

I totally agree with you. Post what you want, people is free to read it or not.<br><br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 01:59 PM

NTO1, if you don't like it here, leave. Free world.<br><br>Oh, I have, but that doesn't mean I can't chime in and remind some folk here why some of us came here in the first place. In fact, the irony is that the very 'lost weekend' which caused the MC split is now replicated here in it's full glory.<br><br>I never then or now had a problem with the 'lost weekend' megathread, the type of thread that's been replicated here again and again. My only issue is that now the reason for coming here-- FREEDOM OF POSTING-- has been forgotten by the very people who benefit from it. Amazing.<br><br>Look, have your little no politics/no religion/we're cooler than those guys click if you must, but you may wish to rethink this borish and repetitive self-congradulatory parade you keep throwing for yourselves and find something to talk about BESIDES how you don't talk about politics.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:06 PM

I think the word you're looking for is "clique." I'm not trying to be rude, I just noticed you used "click" twice.<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:07 PM

We're doing pretty well with topics other than politics, thank you. <br><br>See all those other threads? The only difference with this forum is that threads like this keep jumping to the top when they're added to!<br><br>No need to get hostile, NTO1- I feel, and I'm sure others would agree with me, that people should just stick to MCF if they really have the urge to duke it out with someone. <br><br>Lord knows there's enough combatants over there to oblige you! <br><br>I personally never said 'no politics', and you certainly have the freedom and ability to post on anything subject that you please — but the general attitude over here is that we like to keep things light. If you can be good natured and civilzed with your political musings, then by all means go ahead and post on it. Just know that you're not going to be able to stir up the sauce as much over here as you might be able to on MCF...<br><br>THAT's all anyone is trying to say here...<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:12 PM

Thing is..there is no freedom to post at any website. Contrary to what you may think, this is a "private" message board, owned by Stan and whomever else (unless Stan owns it by himself, then it's just Stan ) and he decides what can be posted here and what can't. I mean, you cannot start a thread with pornographic images! <br><br>So...take your flame-baiting posts over there please...<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:25 PM

Let me quote myself from up above in this very thread--cause I'm so smart and obviously right:<br><br>"This is my sense of politicaql threads, here or anywhere else on line. Often they begin intelligently enough. However, pretty soon all that one can do is repeat the same point over and over again. The result is not particularly satisfying, so everyone gets irate, and because the whole thing is taking place long-distance, and the interlocutor is not actually in front of you, the discussion begins to descend into adhomination. Pretty soon that declines as well, and then we get to the "says who" or "so's your mother" stage of the discussion.<br><br>In short, nothing is resolved, nothing really gets discusses seriously, and all that issues is hot air.<br><br>None of this is to say that politics is not important. Obviously it is. But Tip O'Neill said it most succinctly: All politics is local. The problem with the web as a mode of communicating political ideas is that the web is never local."<br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Thanks.. - 10/25/02 02:40 PM

.. I though 'clique' was how you turned off a light apparantly.<br><br>Don't worry. I don't presume someone's being rude unless they clearly are. Appreciate the heads up.<br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:40 PM

I agree YO YO.. I am also making an observation that the most hostile and negative posters have been the political ones and it is so very obvious with what has happened here on this thread. <br>Hey fellas, we all know you hate Bush, love Clinton and are ambivilant about this country. There are a bunch here who feel the same way but don't have to trumpet it all the time.<br>The group here is light-hearted and happy to get away from the stresses of such heavy topics. I, for one have to deal with crime and politics daily for real and come here for the break in the tension. Why do you want to create tension?<br>Relax and enjoy the good cheer here.<br> <br><br>
Posted by: Biggerfoot

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:48 PM

Here-here sross...I agree with you 100%<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:50 PM

I totally agree with you sRoss!<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:53 PM

Should we all confess our political leanings and then, when political questions come up, just copy the URL for the thread?<br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: Biggerfoot

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 02:57 PM

Quite frankly, I can not recall when a political issue has really come up unless someone was purposely baiting people such as NTO1 had done.<br><br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:01 PM

Forgive me, but this is too hard to agreeably pass with silence:<br><br>We're doing pretty well with topics other than politics, thank you.<br><br>I never said you should make room for politics here. Please note that I've stopped posting political threads here for some time. I'm not even whining about how I'd like to post political threads. I'm saying, to me, there's nothing more boring than listen to people pat each other on the backs for not posting politics and religion. Worse, they say this as if it's a rule here, which it isn't. Even worse, it was this freedom to do as you wish the made many leave MC in the first place, and now you're scorning it!<br><br>No need to get hostile, NTO1.. Lord knows there's enough combatants over there to oblige you!<br><br>Just because an opinion is contrary doesn't make it hostile or combative. <br><br>people should just stick to MCF if they really have the urge to duke it out with someone.<br><br>I personally never said 'no politics', and you certainly have the freedom and ability to post on anything subject that you please — but the general attitude over here is that we like to keep things light.<br><br>I never said you did, and I understand your point. Again, what I'm responding to is that some are trying to raise the notch of intolerance over here, which they don't have the right to do. Stan said quite clearly this is essentially an anything goes forum. Yes, this new clique is free to try to draw false rules over the real ones, and that's why you're hearing from me.<br><br>If you can be good natured and civilzed with your political musings, then by all means go ahead and post on it.<br><br>You see, another false rule. Why don't YOU just skip threads you don't like instead of defining exactly what parameters you would like others to post under this week?<br><br>That is what's hostile.<br><br>Just know that you're not going to be able to stir up the sauce as much over here as you might be able to on MCF...<br><br>I've already done that with this hijack, but that's not my purpose. I'm only offering a contrary position. If that's difficult to tolerate, deal with it.<br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:04 PM

Sadly, to me, some of the folks are like two seperate people. On one hand, they are helpful and friendly, and on the other they can be hostile and confrontational.<br>I prefer to deal with the "kinder, gentler" side of them. Unfortunately, I feel uncomfortable and that is a shame because I have many friends whose politics are different than mine. Because they are friends, they respect me and don't bait me.<br>What a shame <br><br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:06 PM

there is no freedom to post.. you cannot start a thread with pornographic images!<br><br>You're changing the subject. You might want to sit back and take a non-combative breath. That's not the 'freedom' I'm referring to. Stan said quite clearly this is a topic free for all in here, and that includes politics.<br><br>Recently some have been turning up the dial on the idea that this is a politics free forum by design. Sorry, it isn't. If some want to insist that there are rules and expectations on how to discuss politics, again, there are not.<br><br>You're free to try to pressure some into silence, and I'm free to remind them they can ignore you.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:09 PM

Hey Lori - can you repeat what you said before?<br><br>Sure Lesh - I said ...there is no such rule. We were all playing around one day welcoming a new poster I think. Someone was just kidding around when they posted (made up rules) these rules. It was all just in fun...<br><br>[color:purple]The shortest distance between two points is how far apart they are.</font color=purple>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:15 PM

When I said Sean left out--<br><br>8.) they're embarrassed that their party's President Bush is not the easiest President to praise or defend in debate, and so they'd rather have debates in general silence, which is in itself, politics.<br><br>-- that may have sounded 'baiting', but it wasn't meant that way, and I'm sorry if it came off that way. <br><br>What I mean to suggest is simple. Sean wrote out a list that seemed to be missing one major reality of the situation: people who don't want political debate because of the 'liberal' climate of the forum and they are not liberal. They feel outnumbered and so would rather say 'FSCK IT' and have such talk STOP altogether, because they don't like seeing their candidate hung out to dry.<br><br>Biggerfoot, from prior discussions you have participated in, you run conservative. When you say you agree with SROSS 100 percent, that falls a little flat in lieu of this reality.<br><br>I'm not saying you're not welcome to come here and have some peace. That's cool. I'm saying that when Sean made his list, he left a reason why some wish to avoid political discussion.<br><br>That's all.<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:27 PM

AMEN!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:28 PM

I think we've all gotten way out of hand... and this thread is exactly what we are trying to avoid here.<br><br>There is no RULE... it was a joke. Obviously anyone can post whatever they want (within reason). We were simply trying to let the newcommer know that for the most part, we don't discuss politics here - by choice, not because we aren't allowed to.<br><br>NTO1, you shouldn't have to defend your statements in this thread, and neither should anyone else. But your "defense" is exactly what we are trying to avoid by not talking politics. <br><br>I know you have more to contribute than political discussion... I used to read your posts all the time over at MC, and until the last several months, hardly any of them were political in nature. We would love for you to visit here more often and post like a mad-man if you want to, we just prefer not to have all the political stuff enter into it because it leaves you/us with a bad taste in the mouth due to the nature of politics.<br><br>
Posted by: Biggerfoot

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:30 PM

MacGizmo...<br><br>Maybe if we let this thread fade away is the best way to illustrate what you mean?<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:32 PM

Good idea....<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:37 PM

I found it "most interesting" that you said amen to a post that advocated light-heartedness and yet included a barb aimed at a particular political segment. So which does he want, exactly? From his post it wasn't so clear.<br><br>You don't need to answer. This sort of thing is why I avoid political talk myself. When it comes to politics, everyone is a hypocrite, including myself.<br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:41 PM

And a Amen to you too. This stuff makes my head hurt...bring on the fun stuff and leave stress behind!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: Mississauga

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:41 PM

<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:42 PM

That's like the WHAT? I see when I'm drunk!<br><br>
Posted by: Biggerfoot

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:45 PM

<br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:47 PM

If you are referring to my post, it is exactly what I said. I don't know what barb you are talking about unless it was my earlier one that I qualified by saying many feel the same way.<br>You don't know me or my politics. In fact it may shock a bunch of the old timers here who do know me.<br>What I want is a stop to the constant trumpeting from both sides.<br>I feel like some of the recent posters. Let the thread die.<br>NTO1, I like your new avatar. <br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:47 PM

Hey, thanks for the idea...gotta run and get a beer, it's Friday.<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:49 PM

Pizza and beer for me tonight.<br>Just got "Basketball Diaries" from Amazon.<br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:50 PM

I concure, let it RIP. If I could find a headstone, I'd post it!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:52 PM

Well that beats my peanut butter & jelly (which is not that great with beer)!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:52 PM

I don't want to know your politics! <br><br>Goodness! <br><br>But if you can't see how your comment was a barb (because it was simplistic and stereotypical) and how it was at odds with the comments that followed it, well, you're the judge.<br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:54 PM

I smell bait?<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 03:54 PM

That's a really good movie sross - but not especially uplifting...Leo does a good job.<br><br>[color:purple]The shortest distance between two points is how far apart they are.</font color=purple>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 04:00 PM

I know. I'm sorry. <br><br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 04:00 PM

There is no RULE... it was a joke.<br><br>To grant this presupposes there haven't been repeated attempts to quiet political discourse here. <br><br>1. Doesn't SteveG run a GIANT gif of an old dude telling any visitor where they can put their politics?<br>2. Doesn't Daddy in this thread attempt to define exactly what an acceptable political thread is?<br>3. Don't you do the same by saying: we just prefer not to have all the political stuff enter into it<br><br>We? Who's 'we'? The people who left MC to feel free to talk about what they like here? Again, there's this pressure thing.. an inferred rule. It's not a joke, it's a direct request.<br><br>So tell me why you can't, instead, simply skip over a political thread altogether. Why is this so hard? If the 'we' in here don't want to discuss politics, by all means, dont. Ignore such posts. What's the problem?<br><br>NTO1, you shouldn't have to defend your statements in this thread, and neither should anyone else. But your "defense" is exactly what we are trying to avoid by not talking politics.<br><br>Yes, a collective 'you' are trying to avoid hostility and combativeness in ANY forum (which may be admirable in it's civilty), even if that means avoiding contrary positions, which is not admirable. <br><br>So you all want to join hands and say "let's agree to X, Y, and Z". Here's the problem: I don't agree. And I didn't START this thread. I didn't call this position stupid either, although I think it is.<br><br>Look, if you endeavor to set up a forum where everyone can agree not to disagree, good luck to you, and what a boring place it will be. I'm not saying arguments are the spice of life. I'm saying tolerance is a great thing, and when you don't have it, you'll simply alienate certain members. <br><br>Instead of defining how political and religious discussions would suit the group needs, why not instead police yourself? You don't like a thread? Ignore it. Don't contribute.<br><br>Better yet, add an interesting thread. But know that simply because a thread isn't political, religious, or combative doesn't necessarily make it interesting either. One man's PHOTOSHOP tennis is as tedious as another man's Michael Moore post.<br><br>Do I ask people here to not post such light and frivilous clubhouse crap? No, I just skip it. All I'm asking is for a little consideration of the same.<br><br>(P.S. Did you get to hear the Knophler deal I posted for you?) <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 04:00 PM

After dealing with addicts all day, I don't know why I ordered this movie. Kind of a downer isn't it. (saw it when it came out)<br>I did see a fine one last week: "Amalie" French and very well done. There is another I recommend: "The Eighth Day" also French and very uplifting. It deals with a Down's Syndrome adult who teaches a "burned out" banker about priorities. <br><br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Thanks - 10/25/02 04:06 PM

NTO1, I like your new avatar.<br><br>Thanks.. it's an oldie refreshed with PIXELNHANCE.<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 04:18 PM

[color:red]I never said you should make room for politics here. Please note that I've stopped posting political threads here for some time. I'm not even whining about how I'd like to post political threads. I'm saying, to me, there's nothing more boring than listen to people pat each other on the backs for not posting politics and religion. </font color=red><br><br>Then, guess what? Like OSX Addict said in harsher terms, you don't have to stay here and you don't have to post here!<br><br>[color:red]Just because an opinion is contrary doesn't make it hostile or combative.</font color=red><br><br>No, but it's about how one handles people's responses and dissenting opinions that make one hostile and/or combative. I never even actually said YOU were hostile or combative- I was trying to be nice and say that you just weren't going to find that here if that's what you were looking for!<br><br>[color:red]I never said you did, and I understand your point. Again, what I'm responding to is that some are trying to raise the notch of intolerance over here, which they don't have the right to do.</font color=red><br><br>I'm not trying to shut anyone out, or set any false guidelines or rules. All I said is we like to 'keep it light'. If you ENJOY being the burr under people's saddles, then that's YOUR issue.<br><br>[color:red]You see, another false rule. Why don't YOU just skip threads you don't like instead of defining exactly what parameters you would like others to post under this week?<br><br>That is what's hostile.</font color=red><br><br>Again, I don't think 'have a good time' is any kind of rule. If you personally don't LIKE 'having a good time' and having friendly, non-abusive discussions with people- once again, YOUR issue. <br><br>[color:red]I've already done that with this hijack, but that's not my purpose. I'm only offering a contrary position. If that's difficult to tolerate, deal with it.</font color=red><br><br>Listen, the fact that you feel you keep having to defend your position and accuse us all of avoiding politics because we're some sort of pro-Bush faction that can't stand to see "our candidate hung out to dry" is the very reason I used the phrase "stir up the sauce"...<br><br>Post anything you want, fer cryin' out loud. I think your real issue seems to be you can't handle anyone telling you otherwise! "What? I can't post about politics?!! Well, let me just get to the bottom of THIS matter!"<br><br>You're like the kid who does something just because his parents told him he couldn't!! "Don't put your finger in that socket, Johnny".... "Oh yeah? Well that's just what I'm gonna do...nyah nyah nyah!!!" BZZZZZT!!!!<br><br>Cheese and Rice...<br><br>It was never meant to be a guideline, and I wasn't trying to tell you how to go about your business- I'm just telling you that the reason we all came over here was to take a break from the bickering and discourse that seems VERY prevalent over in MCF. If you want to bring that attitude and atmosphere over here, feel free. <br><br>But then I guess we'll be moving this whole operation somewhere ELSE. <br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 04:24 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Cheese and Rice!!!!<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Is that like Cheese and Crackers?<br><br>Not that I want to call attention away from the high significance of the discussion, MacDaddy, but I am fascinated by (to me) new phrases.<br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: Swatcat

And Now Time - 10/25/02 04:29 PM

For a station break and a commercial<br><br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 04:29 PM

yeah..cheese and rice! <br><br>uh..LOL damn, I work with kids and even they don't know that saying <br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: And Now Time - 10/25/02 04:32 PM

and what if...<br><br>uh..<br><br>nevermind! <br><br><br><br><br>dang..I was gonna say that in front of the macbabes?? what was I thinking?? <br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: And Now Time - 10/25/02 04:35 PM

Hmmm - hey Swatcat - how many lurkers ya think we got out in them thar' hills?<br><br>[color:purple]The shortest distance between two points is how far apart they are.</font color=purple>
Posted by: Mississauga

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 04:54 PM

WOW! Even a non-political thread about non-political threads can make folks angry with each other.<br><br>Pathetic!<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 05:01 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Pathetic!<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Oh yeah? Sez you!<br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 05:25 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Doesn't SteveG run a GIANT gif of an old dude telling any visitor where they can put their politics?<p><hr></blockquote><p>You mean this one?<br><br><br>Sheesh... lighten up already. <br><br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/25/02 05:26 PM

Here's a novel idea:<br>How about a NO RULES RULE!<br>Now everybody stop kvetching. <br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 05:27 PM

Oh, that is so cool!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 05:30 PM

Nyuk nyuk...<br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 05:32 PM

Help...every time I hit the OK button mt screen goes blank? To clear up things, I was referring to the art work. That is why I love this place.<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Mcteak on 10/25/02 08:33 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: sean

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 06:33 PM

many weeks ago, i wrote a post complaining about the light-hearted nature of this board and the lack of ANYTHING serious -- i think it had to do with lurkers. i think the consensus at the time was that the iChat-like posts were necessary to generate traffic and that people would be happy to participate in "serious" threads if they were just started. this is a serious thread and people are asking for it to die away. <br><br>personally, i would be happy to participate in politics or any other serious subject. as long as people can show respect for other posters, any topic should be open for discussion and anyone can particpate or not. i respect all of you. <br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 07:09 PM

You sure that's a gif? Looks like it might be a JPEG to me...<br><br>And I think it got even BIGGER since the last time I saw it!!!<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 08:19 PM

"love Clinton and are ambivilant about this country"<br><br>Being on the left does not make one ambivalent about the country my friend. Open political discussion is just a way to express differing views. Yeah, it may get heated at times and we all know the other person is not going to change. But, sometimes a good blast at something political is fun and informative too. I just hate to see intelligent people shying away from these topics in this time when they should be involved in the events that have transformed this country in the last year and two months. You know, that really interests me and I want to know all I can about what happened. That's my reason for discussion in political threads. You're an intelligent guy I would guess being a judge. Seems a shame not to voice your opinion doesn't it?<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 08:30 PM

Yeah, I find that things here get pretty silly sometimes and a serious discussion is in order now and then. Hey, we can be nice to each other and still talk about things that may be controversial now and then. <br><br>OK, sometimes things can get out of hand when the topic is a hot one. But, that is just the nature of people. Deal with it.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 08:58 PM

Frankly, Sean, I don't see this as a serious thread. It's a thread in which certain folks can trot out their pre-formed ideas, which invites others to trot out their pre-formed ideas, and then the two groups can call each other names. I repeat what I've said above. I do not think that one can have a serious discussion of serious issues on a medium such as this. As a separate problem, it also doesn't help that what passes for political discourse on the popular media is one talking head shouting at another. Unfortunately, that's what "political" threads on fora end up imitating. Frankly, if I were silly enough to agree to be on one of those Fox or MSNBC shows, I'd leave two minutes after the "interview" started. The same, I think, applies to the run of the mill "political" discussion on web pages.<br><br>Why? Because the medium invites intemperance. It invites radicalization. It invites endless repetition of the same point. It does not invite reasoned argument, nor does it encourage real discourse.<br><br>So of course mikeb_x, who started this, is perfectly right to say that if he wants to post political threads he is entitled to do so. No one says he's not. But if you count (a) the number of times that people have expressed that no one has a right to tell them what to post and what not to post, and (b) the number of times that people have reiterated that the "rule" about not having political posts was a joke, I think you'll begin to see me point. No one really wants to listen to what the other person says.<br><br>As an example of a bull-headed, single-minded, "principled" position, let me stake out a position.<br><br>I suggest that anyone who has enough money to buy a Macintosh, to have internet access at home, and to have the time to sit and write messages accross cyberspace is automatically a capitalist pig. For such a person to then use this luxurious medium to berate others for being even more capitalistic because they vote Republican and Republicans are associated with the upper classes in America--that position seems to me the soul of hypocrisy, or so simple-mindedly unreflective that it really doesn't bear response.<br><br>Now, if anyone disagrees with me, clearly they are in denial at best, and probably craven cowards to boot. So let me repeat to such people, finding yourself on the web with a fancy schmancy computer brands you already. Stop pretending. If you want to revolution, do it the old fashioned way. Writing pathetic notes in cyberspace will not accomplish anything at all.<br><br>What? I get a response that I'm pathetic and full of sh!t myself? Well, then surely the responder is a real mother of a fscker and ought to be shot at dawn for his idiocy.<br><br>And so it goes.<br><br>By the way, I do not in fact subscribe to any of these ideas. Politically speaking, I'm a socialist by inclination and whenever possible by practice. I also recognize the falsity of my class position in that regard, by the way, for a number of reasons that I can't get into without writing a much longer--reasoned, logically developed (I hope), philosophically informed, historically positioned--disquisition. I also think that the politics of the current adminsitration are frightening; that George Bush, whom I like to think of as George III because he is the 3rd president with that name, is at best dull witted; that Dick Cheyney and John Ashcroft are a danger to the Constitution; that Donald Rumfeld ought to get a better barber.<br><br>So suppose I say all those things, not as a confession of my perspective, but as terms in an argument that can be conducted only at a distance, with essentially no time for carefu l consideration. What would I expect to get as a response? All of this is not to say that I am not curious about people's political, religious, generally intellectual positions. But I can't conceive that such perspectives could ever be expressed in the context of a "political debate" in a medium such as this. At any rate, I've never seen it happen.<br><br>I repeat the invitation that I made above, therefore, to have a thread in which each of us who is so inclined states his or her political position, justifies it as well as possible in an economical way, and then leaves it at that. Not for the sake of argumentation, in other words, but for the sake of a more thorough introduction of oneself to other folks. I understand why some folks would decline to participate. But I--like you, Sean--work in a field where expressing one's uncompromised position is not a problem.<br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: NotTheOnly1

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 09:13 PM

Post anything you want, fer cryin' out loud.<br><br>Thanks for your permission, but I didn't need it.<br><br>Listen, the fact that you feel you keep having to defend your position-<br><br>I'm sorry, and you're not? HYPOCRITE-- Line 3!<br><br> and accuse us all of avoiding politics because we're some sort of pro-Bush faction that can't stand to see "our candidate hung out to dry"<br><br>All? Don't think so. Some.<br><br>I think your real issue seems to be you can't handle anyone telling you otherwise! "What? I can't post about politics?!! Well, let me just get to the bottom of THIS matter!" You're like the kid who does something just because his parents told him he couldn't!! "Don't put your finger in that socket, Johnny".... "Oh yeah? Well that's just what I'm gonna do...nyah nyah nyah!!!"<br><br>Wow-- good thing you're setting such a "friendly" and "good times" example. For a minute there, I thought you were getting personal..<br><br>Try all you like, my ONLY issue is that this forum is set up for one and all, whether some like it or not, but if you want to pressure people to post kind and friendly posts.. practice what you preach.<br><br>PEACE<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 09:17 PM

That is a very good post and you make some interesting comments. My main reason for finding this kind of thing interesting to talk about with others, is that I am just appalled at the direction in which our leaders have taken this country. It is very unsettling. I have to talk about that sometimes here, I don't get much of a chance elsewhere. So bear with me from time to time if I wander into those areas of discussion.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 09:20 PM

I'd want you to talk about whatever is on your mind, Mike. God forbid that you should feel the need to be silenced here or anywhere else! It's not the stating a position that seems to me pointless, but the arguments that come up after the position is stated. I'm not sure if that makes sense--I think I know what I mean, anyway <br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 09:29 PM

Now you're just nit-picking at the way I'm phrasing my sentences...<br><br>Do what you want, or not. <br><br>I really don't give a sh*t anymore...<br><br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 10:02 PM

boy, if it wasn't a serious thread then you sure turned it into one. <br><br>my take on the discussions is that the purpose is not necessarily to see someone change his or her mind. like you, i rarely see that occur. i use these "discussions" to solidify my beliefs and strengthen my positions and it's just an extra opportunity to learn. if i can read a new argument against one of my beliefs, then i can also try and counter that new position or i can wait and see how someone else counters the position and learn from them. i can often read a post and learn a new well-reasoned angle when approaching a certain topic...something i can agree with but wouldn't have thought about on my own. i'll bet there are many people who read a post on a sensitive issue and think, "yeah, i know i felt that way about the topic, but i couldn't have said it nearly as eloquently as she did." in future discussions, perhaps with a colleague at work, i can use my new knowledge to discuss a particular topic with a little more flair and confidence. these forums are an excellent place to test your beliefs on people from all walks of life and from all different kinds of perspectives.<br><br>i almost make it sound like a competition, but in essense, it is. politics and political discussions are about winning and that's very much ingrained as a part of america...sports are wildly popular. politics are wildly popular. maybe nobody changes positions, but that doesn't make crossfire less entertaining and that's the bottom line to me. certainly some people would rather watch the cosby show, rikki lake or the cartoon network, but none of those shows rival the nielson ratings that 60 minutes consistently receives. in general, people like serious topics.<br><br>yes, it sad when the debates turn to name calling and the like, but most participants enjoy the process or they wound't return again and again. i have often had discussions with bganey or mattmac112 (or whatever it is) and felt very good when the thread has ended. i don't know that we've ever called each other names or gotten upset with each other, but i know that they've helped me to grow and i hope that they've appreciated my perspective as well.<br><br>by the way...i didn't buy any of the computers i use...the gov't owns them all. so, i am not the capitalist pig that some might believe. that being said, i would also guess that i am not that far from you politically. i never saw a vote by senator wellstone that i didn't like. <br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/25/02 10:29 PM

I'll give you the entertainment value of some discussions. I guess I just get bogged down in the tit-for-tat stuff, of which there are examples in this very thread. I know, I know--selective reading is important! <br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"<br>
Posted by: MachOne

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:40 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>maybe nobody changes positions, but that doesn't make crossfire less entertaining and that's the bottom line to me<p><hr></blockquote><p>Well Sean, I guess you and I will have to differ on that because the fact that nobody changes their opinion simply underscores the futility of such threads and in my opinion makes them far less entertaining.<br><br>The "yes it is"/"no it isn't" school of debate is unintelligent and ultimately useless to any but the combatants. It makes me sad that you don't see the futility, but my sadness is not likely to be of any concern to you, so I wasted this post.<br><br>See what I mean about futility? *sigh*<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

gif, gaff, jpeg, pegleg. Whatevah... - 10/26/02 03:54 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And I think it got even BIGGER since the last time I saw it!!!<p><hr></blockquote><p>SHHHHHH! People will talk! <br><br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 04:05 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>See what I mean about futility? *sigh*<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yeah... beginning to feel the headache coming on again...<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 04:12 AM

Nail on the head, yoyo. It wasn't the politics itself that got to me last month, but rather the mean-spirited and back-biting rhetoric that grew out of it. It's one thing to have a healthy, intelligent debate — no matter how radical the topic — but when shrillness and wanton aggression replace reason and intelect, or when a global issue is used as a bludgeon to support a personal agenda or prejudice... well, you and I are pretty much on the same page.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/26/02 04:12 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p><br>Yeah... I'm with Mach... wish you came around more... we miss having you here.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>I have had a lot to keep me busy so I don't have that much time to post in forums these days. But, I do try to check in now and then to see how you all are and what is going on. <br><br>Somehow I just don't feel like posting to some of the more pointless silly threads, not my kind of subject line for the most part. I enjoy a bit of that now and then too, but for the most part I am more of a serious type looking for substance rather than fluff.<br><br>Politics just happens to interest me a lot.<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 06:14 AM

Maybe instead of 'no politics', we say 'no meanies'?<br><br><br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 06:21 AM

Well the thing to remember is that even if we do get into politics now and then, we can certainly try our best to keep it civil and dignified. <br><br>Having said that, I admit that in the past I have not adhered to that at times, but I have also learned from my mistakes and realize it does no good to utilize that approach. <br><br>On the other hand, sometimes it just feels good to do that too and let it all hang out and bash an ultra conservative, or if you are an ultra conservative, to bash an ultra liberal.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 06:42 AM

No, I think this is an interesting thread and I challenge you all to be civil and see where it takes us.<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 06:46 AM

See..that last line you put in there about bashing ultra-conservative/ultra-liberal is what gets me. When someone does that, usually they post something that is half-truths or whatever and so it's there in the forum, never to be erased after 10 minutes. So if you have someone impressionable (age doesn't matter) who looks up to that person who posted the bashing, they may think it's true and form a wrong opinion in their head.<br><br>Yeah, that's an extreme case that probably won't ever happen, but the fact of the matter is, bashing is not good. The bashee more than likely gets heated and upset, causing them to be the basher, raising the stakes until it spills out into other threads then we have a mess.<br><br>What's the point of political threads? I mean, let's say you post something about an issue you care about...would my opinion, if it was the opposite, change how/what you think? I doubt it. Would it change anyone else's? Maybe...who knows. Sure, you can say it would bring about debating and perhaps open the mind of the other person, but do you really think that? I don't know, honestly. Check out political threads, here and at MC, and see if the original debaters ever change their position. Or see if anything really comes out of that thread, other than for some of them to shout out their positions. I'm interested.<br><br>Here is my view..I feel like I'm one of the few conservatives here. I voted for Bush and all that and so a political thread would do what? Change me? Nope. Change you? I hardly doubt it. Open our minds? Fat chance....we already have our ideals set in and if it changes you, then you weren't sure about it in the first place.<br><br>Now, with that said (and this being my longest post here I think! ), throw in the (from what I have seen) inflamatory remarks by people like NTO1 and you will have degredation of the forums. NTO1, you have your points and such, which I respect, but I feel like you are the type that itches for a fight/arguement and I don't want to go that route. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: walzuhair

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 06:53 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Maybe instead of 'no politics', we say 'no meanies'?<p><hr></blockquote><p>WHAT? No meanies? How do you eat chicken burgers with no meanies?<br><br>I apologize in advance if I give somebody a migraine from that joke.. I've been listening to some Jeff Foxworthy CDs and I liked his southern accent <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 07:16 AM

Yeah, but it is all in good fun you now. I don't take any of it too seriously.<br><br>Sorry to hear you voted the way you did. Now mind you, that is not a flame, just a statement of how I feel about anyone that voted for that bunch of thieves.<br><br>I just can't help it, but when your country has been hijacked by these rat bastards on the extreme right, I feel I have a right to discuss and criticize.<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 07:32 AM

and you just proved my point right there! You just made 2 very inflammatory remarks.<br><br>It's one thing to say what you did...and then you could have said it a lot different and yet got your point across. Why do you have to resort to using such inflammatory remarks?<br><br>Here is my one and only lesson, cause I feel you are old enough to know better:<br><br>you said: Sorry to hear you voted the way you did. Now mind you, that is not a flame, just a statement of how I feel about anyone that voted for that bunch of thieves.<br><br>What you should have said: I respect your choice of who you voted for, that's your perogative and why it's nice to live in a democratic society, though I feel that the election didn't go in my favor and felt that I was cheated. (and then an explanation on why you felt cheated).<br><br><br>You said: I just can't help it, but when your country has been hijacked by these rat bastards on the extreme right, I feel I have a right to discuss and criticize.<br><br>What you should have said: I just can't help my feelings, but I felt that the Republicans won by unfair means. (then you list/explain why you felt it was unfair.)<br><br><br>Now, I could have easily chose not to post the above and instead respond by putting this:<br>I'm sorry that you are still harboring ill-feelings towards the Republican party by living in the past, Mike. Get over it...noone cheated or hijacked anything. Even the newspapers (Gannet and others) did a recount only to find that Bush won Florida. <br>I'm sorry you voted for a person who served with a lying cheating bastard. Glad he lost!<br><br>But that would have been inflammatory so I chose not to. I just used it as an example of how political threads can degenerate into name-callling and ill-will. So please don't respond to my "what I could have said" section as it's only an example!! <br>This is what I truly mean:<br>Mike, while I respect your choice of political parties and ideologies, please keep your inflammatory responses down to a minimum as they are pointless and cause nothing but ill-will. Even if you do have a right to discuss and criticize. Do so in a respectful tone please.<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 07:41 AM

you think there are examples in this thread of people not listening? you don't say. so, if i were to say that the political threads were highly entertaining to some (often, i am included in this group) and that i learn from these discussions from time to time (e.g., daryl_holly brought up new information to me the other day when discussing fingerprinting bullets...i had never heard his point of view on the topic, and especially appreciated his POV as he is a cop...i feel much more comfortable having this discussion if it comes up in the "real world") someone like MachOne could come along and tell me that i am wrong and that these discussions are unintelligent and that he is sad that i don't see the futility. i have already conceded that these discussions are futile to many, and i have heard you concede that there is sometimes entertainment value associated with such threads. this, to me, sounds like we've made some progress and are finding areas of agreement. hooray, it doesn't have to be futile if people enjoy the process. many people are claiming that only the debates that turn to "yes it is"/"no it isn't" stances are the bad ones. you won't get a lot of argument from me, but that is a bit vague...if the yes it is poster adds new information that causes me to go, "hmmm" then i appreciate having read that POV. if it's just a bitter "yes it is/no it isn't" then i would fully agree with the majority here. the justification for stopping all serious discussion where there can be more than one side to a particular issue is that they *can* get mean-spirited. i try very hard to ignore those discussions myself. i feel like intelligent people can overcome that dilemma. i really enjoy civilized discussions where everyone shows a little respect for the person they are debating (e.g., what we've done in this thread). i find this thread entertaining, and...judging by the hits compared to other threads in the last few days...i am guessing that a few other people enjoy these discussions, too. i would love to have more like this in the future. heck, i don't know that we were that far apart to begin with...in fact, most of us are pretty close in that we just don't like the mean-spirited talks. so, if we ignore those posters when they post that kind of stuff, it will go away. same could be said for trolls, but it never seems to work. <br><br>thanks for the intelligent discussion to all. i enjoyed it. <br><br>[color:blue] -sean</font color=blue>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 08:06 AM

I don't see them as being inflammatory, perhaps a bit harsh -- but I make no apologies for what I feel. It's just that I can't respect your choice of who you voted for that's all.<br><br>Inflammatory would have been if I had called you nasty name and told you to go fsck yourself. I didn't do that, but I did state what I feel.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 09:04 AM

I think this whole thread has gotten out of hand.<br> When Daddy posted<br>Rule #1: NO POLITICS<br>Rule#2: See Rule #1<br>It was ment to be taken light hearted,and that is all.<br>there is and was never no such rule.<br>This whole d@mn thread has been blowen out of proportion.<br>Post what you want it's fine me as long as the threads don't get out of hand like this one.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 09:18 AM

Obviously some people took it literally, and away we went...<br><br>See, though, you've already set limitations on posting- 'as long as it doesn't get out of hand- maybe some people WANT threads to get out of hand'...<br><br>Don't be a hypocrite now... <br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: margadagio

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 09:21 AM

swatcat, DaddyMac !!! This for you both. <br><br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Most interesting.. *DELETED* - 10/26/02 09:26 AM

It's not over until the fat lady sings<br><br>This thread will now self destruct<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Swatcat on 10/26/02 12:46 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 09:27 AM

My eyes..my eyes. Run away...run away!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 09:30 AM

I think that picture alone is worth clamping a big old lock on this thread and throwing it into the river...<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: The NO POLITICS rule - 10/26/02 09:35 AM

Ok, that's it. Time to break out the Nerf weapons. It's foam balls at 5 paces. One... two... three...<br><br>
Posted by: iRock

Re: Most interesting.. *DELETED* - 10/26/02 09:53 AM

You take my picture off there right now! No more picture taking sessions if you are going to 'share'!<br><br><br>"There are three things I've learned never to discuss with people: religion, politics, and the Great Pumpkin."<br>-- Linus Van Pelt (Peanuts)
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Most interesting.. *DELETED* - 10/26/02 09:57 AM

That's all folks <br>THE END<br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Most interesting.. *DELETED* - 10/26/02 10:27 AM

Swat, I was reading this thoroughly entertaining thread and then, URP. The picture. Because I am somewhat compulsive I had to control click on the picture and learn that her name is Rita. Thank you for causing a disturbing vision to occur everytime in the future I hear that song. <br>But let me get you back. Please hum the following lyrics while gazing at lovely Rita.<br><br><br>Lovely Rita, meter maid,<br>Lovely Rita, meter maid<br><br>Lovely Rita, meter maid, nothing can come between us*<br>When it gets dark I tow your heart away<br>Standing by a parking meter, when Swatcat caught a glimpse of Rita<br>Filling in a ticket in her little white book<br><br>In a cap she looked much older,<br>And the bag across her shoulder<br>Made her look a little like a military man<br><br>Lovely Rita, meter maid, may Swatcat inquire discreetly,<br>When you are free to take some tea with Swatcat? <br><br>* because if something did come between us it would be lost in the folds forever ...<br><br>
Posted by: bird

Re: Most interesting.. *DELETED* - 10/26/02 10:32 AM

I see her, but it may be a flashback! please say it isn't so. Lol. And pray tell me is that a smile, must be getting close to lunch time.i<br><br>
Posted by: margadagio

STAN: please read - 10/26/02 10:33 AM

I sincerely hope you will delete this thread ASAP. There is pornography here.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: STAN: please read - 10/26/02 10:39 AM

Hey thats Rita she has been with me over six years living on the hard drive of my Performa 630 Cd it's a 250 megabyte drive and it's her home.<br>I have to take her out sometimes in public,poor thing all confined<br>She is my secret weapon and will protect me from the MacBabes<br>She will take all of you babes on at one time<br>
Posted by: bird

Re: STAN: please read - 10/26/02 10:50 AM

I think you need someone who can move for protection. I will just give her some chocolate double fudge cream pie, and your in trouble. Hmm swatcat or pie, swatcat or pie!! Go get him macbabes, hes yours. <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 10:53 AM

Well, I can think of another thread or two that got WAY out of hand, although I missed most of it as I was not frequenting MM at the time that much.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Most interesting.. *DELETED* - 10/26/02 11:04 AM

That's scarier than hell. Stop doing that!<br><br>
Posted by: MachOne

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:18 PM

Sorry to say that I found your post beginning "you think..." hard to follow, so whatever point you were making was lost on me. Perhaps some editing or a clarification?<br><br>It seems to me there's a lack of understanding going on here between a thread about political threads and actual political thread. I have no problem discussing this issue in this thread. And mostly this thread has generated intelligent discussion. You, of course, have your own judgement as to which posts qualify and which do not. As do I.<br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:21 PM

WHY on earth did you post to this thread? We were doing so well in making it go away!!<br><br>Ack! I just kept it alive!! Unclean! Unclean!!!<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: MachOne

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:24 PM

Hey. I've been meaning to talk to you about keeping threads alive...so, what's the best way?<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:25 PM

Well, it's pretty easy.<br><br>Remind me to explain it to you some time...<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:57 PM

Well, you 2 did it..damn.it was on page 2 <br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:58 PM

Wasn't me...(pointing at MachOne...)<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 02:59 PM

I have a very bad feeling about this...<br><br>[color:purple]The shortest distance between two points is how far apart they are.</font color=purple>
Posted by: Swatcat

Lurkers - 10/26/02 03:02 PM

Post something damit<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Most interesting.. - 10/26/02 03:08 PM

Oh, I know it was MachOne....<br><br>dang it..<br><br>Just make some more threads to bury this quick!<br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: Lurkers - 10/26/02 03:11 PM

Grrrr....stop it now - see - it says right here...<br><br><br><br>...page 217, paragraph 3, line 6 ...there shall be no excessive hijacking of threads...<br><br>Now you boys run along now and make a new thread to play in.<br><br>[color:purple]The shortest distance between two points is how far apart they are.</font color=purple>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Lurkers - 10/26/02 03:13 PM

Perhaps this could be the new lurkers thread? <br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Lurkers - 10/26/02 03:17 PM

I really was not lurking, I was laughing...this thread has a mind of it's own!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Back to the top! - 10/26/02 03:27 PM

Wheeeeeeeeeeee.... This is FUN! <br>}:-><br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 03:34 PM

The one ting this thread is missing is one of those MacGizmo<br>BOINGS<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 03:36 PM

I'm thinkin' iff we bounce it high enough, it'll blow right through the roof and be gone! <br><br>
Posted by: lesh

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 03:44 PM

You mean like this?<br><embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/lesh59/.Music/boing.wav" width=320 height=25 controller=true autoplay=false><br><br>SWATCAT MADE ME POST THAT!!!<br><br>[color:purple]The shortest distance between two points is how far apart they are.</font color=purple>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 03:47 PM

Dat's much better and it's politicly correct <br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:01 PM

Enough— I can't take this thread anymore!!! <br><br><embed src="http://www.rockpaperscreen.com/macpics/hardcore_turnitoff.mp3" width=320 height=25 controller=true autoplay=false><br><br> (raise your computer's volume so you're able to hear the whole thing...)<br><br>[color:red]Hold on...it's time for a</font color=red><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:07 PM

That's it blame me for hijacking this thread and doing something constructive with a thread that was a wee bit boring <br> Click<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:11 PM

I dunno... my wife would have a real problem believing something wasn't my fault. <br><br>
Posted by: carp

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:14 PM

Maybe we should have a 4 page limit<br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:15 PM

Your's too!<br>My wife has the same affliction maybe there will be a cure one day.<br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Swatcat on 10/26/02 07:16 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: carp

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:18 PM

The cure is called "Devorice" on big pill eerrrr Bill.<br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:19 PM

Yes, I believe it's called duck tape! <br><br>
Posted by: steveg

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:20 PM

I think that's just a band-aid. <br><br>
Posted by: Mcteak

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:24 PM

<br><br>Opps...wrong thread, just playing, I'll move along now!<br><br>Too Easy!<br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:30 PM

Or adjustable hearing aids for us would be nice volume up for football volume down <br>Well get the idea<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 04:35 PM

It's been done... but I think a bunch of women got together... and that was the last anyone saw the guy who invented it.<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 06:22 PM

Careful with the "w" word.....you'll attract the attention of the macbabes and their various enforcers <br><br>
Posted by: Lori

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 07:15 PM

OK...I think it is time we close the door in this room and lock it.<br><embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/loridilo/.Music/DoorCreakSlam.wav" width=320 height=25 controller=true autoplay=true><br><br><br>
Posted by: MachOne

It's true... - 10/26/02 07:37 PM

...I done it. Banged up, dead to rights. It's a fair cop, Guv. Society's to blame.<br><br>(Sound of cell door slamming in echoey kind of way, stifled sob...)<br><br>
Posted by: Lori

Re: It's true... - 10/26/02 07:44 PM

<embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/loridilo/.Music/DoorCreakSlam.wav" width=320 height=25 controller=true autoplay=true><br><br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 09:53 PM

who the hell keeps opening and closing the damn doors in here???<br><br>[color:red] Kiss My Banana!</font color=red>
Posted by: Lori

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 10:00 PM

I am trying to close the door on this thread, and now you just opened it again...dang.....oops<br><embed src="http://homepage.mac.com/loridilo/.Music/DoorCreakSlam.wav" width=320 height=25 controller=true autoplay=true><br><br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Back to the top! - 10/26/02 10:05 PM

Anyone have any WD-40... Lori is a real slacker and has a shabby door hinge!!!<br><br>[color:red] Kiss My Banana!</font color=red>
Posted by: MachOne

Creeeeeeeaaaaaaaakkkkkk.... - 10/27/02 12:52 AM

SLAM...amm...amm...*fades to silence*<br><br><br><br><br>*small voice* Anyone there?<br><br>Hello?<br><br><br>Yoo hoo...<br><br><br><br><br><br>