Political Lounge

Posted by: Beniitec

Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:02 AM

I still think there needs to be a political lounge/topic area. Especially during election years... geez. <br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:07 AM

Only a commie pinko would suggest something like that!<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:13 AM

Or just wear waders. <br><br>
Posted by: srumrill

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:21 AM

I agree. But when I suggested it, I got blasted by a few people here - telling me to shut up and mind my business.<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:26 AM

"shut up and mind your business"<br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat値 Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: srumrill

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:30 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>"shut up and mind your business"<p><hr></blockquote><p>Thanks for the laugh! <br><br>
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:34 AM

Hmm... if I knew what that was, I'd probably be offended. I know I'm not communist. What a mean thing to say.<br><br>
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:37 AM

Sometimes you get sick of using them... and just don't want to go in anymore. Then you go away and come back, and dang...it's just freaking worse than ever!<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:47 AM

don't be offended. i think he was giving you a compliment. <br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat値 Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 09:51 AM

And here we start again! <br><br>_________________________________________<br>You expect me to sign here or somethin?
Posted by: Topper

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 10:08 AM

The thing that I don't understand is why these people make political posts to begin with.<br>Do they actually think they are going to change my mind or anyone else's by their posts?<br><br>
Posted by: djstefan

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 10:22 AM

Ever heard of being bored? Specially at work under artificial light for 8 hours a day while knowing it's sunny outside and you have a superbike in the parking lot?<br>Talking about apples and lemons is just not enough anymore, anggggggger haaaas to commmme outtttt!!!!! <br><br>_________________________________________<br>You expect me to sign here or somethin?
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 10:23 AM

I'm not offended. :)<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 10:35 AM

many reasons (at least for me).<br><br>a. it's a learning experience. i can post my thoughts and then read a response from someone who thinks differently than i do, which helps me understand more of the totality of a particular issue. i grow in my understanding.<br>b. it's entertaining.<br>c. the one-upmanship is fun and forces those of us who participate to critically analyze new arguments and how best to present a rebuttal.<br>d. it's informative...most of us who participate pay very close attention to the news and learn to see many sides of each story and seek various resources out (e.g., news.google.com) and our discussions here help keep us on our toes with regard to current events.<br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat値 Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: Trog

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 10:43 AM

Ditto. At the very least it keeps you informed of current events, something that isn't often valued very highly in our society.<br><br>I'd wager that more Americans could tell you what happened on Survivor, or whatever, last week in more detail than what happened in Iraq. I'm not trying to point fingers, I've certainly been guilty of it (not because of reality shows, but other things) at times, but it is odd and a bit unhealthy for the country.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 10:53 AM

It's Dubya's fault! <br><br>I'm MacGizmo,[color:red] and I approved this message.</font color=red>
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 11:24 AM

That was discussed (not shut down as srumrill says) and eventually it came to consensus around here that a separate forum would not keep this one untainted. <br><br>There was one thing that most seemed to think was a good idea, but not everyone is heeding it now (some are): When a political post is made (whether at the start of thread or in the middle), make sure to put a "Political: ..." or "(Political) ..." flag as part of the subject line and those that don't want to wade through the muck can simply avoid it.<br><br>Personally, I've been reading the political stuff to be informed, but I don't bother posting most of time. As Sean mentioned, many are having "fun" with one-upmanship. To me, it's childish and so I avoid joining in unless the child in me just takes over. <br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 11:36 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Ditto. At the very least it keeps you informed of current events, something that isn't often valued very highly in our society.<p><hr></blockquote><p>not only is it not valued, but it's damaging to a democracy. it's imperative to try and understand current events so that we can make more informed decisions.<br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat値 Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: drjohn

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 11:40 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I'd wager that more Americans could tell you what happened on Survivor, or whatever, last week in more detail than what happened in Iraq.<p><hr></blockquote><p><br>Hmm. I'll go with the whatever. The other two are so highly edited that they fall within the realm of maybe.<br><br>
Posted by: srumrill

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 12:00 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>That was discussed (not shut down as srumrill says) and eventually it came to consensus around here that a separate forum would not keep this one untainted. <p><hr></blockquote><p>I never said that it was shut down. I said that I was told to shut up and mind my business by a few members of this forum (I can send you the links if you'd like)<br><br>And I don't think there was a consensus on anything. There were many others who thought that a seprate forum for political posts would be a good idea. But after arguing about it for some time, it eventurally died out (people were just plain tired of discussing it) and nothing was done.<br><br>
Posted by: Swatcat

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 12:02 PM

<br><br> My Ultimate Amazing Crap !
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 12:04 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>so I avoid joining<p><hr></blockquote><p> Oh yeah? Well I avoid it more than you. So top that! <br><br>
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 12:33 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> The thing that I don't understand is why these people make political posts to begin with.<br>Do they actually think they are going to change my mind or anyone else's by their posts? <p><hr></blockquote><p> Yes. Up until last night I was an avowed yellow dog Democrat. Today I am a Libertarian with a neoclassical outlook. How did that happen? By listening, discussing, and then I read DrJohn's and mojo's link to the Cato Institute. After reading up I have discovered that I agree more with them then I do the Democrats. <br><br>I think this shift over over the past year or so has been by listening to Sean and Matt debate. Sean has made me realize that the Democrats, with Clinton leading the way, have evolved into center, center right just to get elected. I suppose this connects into the pre conditioning before my conversion to Libertarian.<br><br>So, yes, I find the political posts interesting. I don't find them all that great when they get personal and get down to "your stupid" posts. I know, I know, I come in here and do that all the time but shoot, gotta get someone's goat sometime to get a response. Then you see what they really think. <br><br>I am a liberal surrounded by liberals in a liberal state. Here and MCF are the only places I can find these weirdo right wing conservatives. I can't pass up a dumb political thread and you can't make me. <br><br>If anyone wants to know: If I lived in a battleground state I would still vote Kerry as this is the only way to get NotBush.<br><br>
Posted by: JohnR

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:06 PM

I agree. I can't wait till after the elections when (hopefully) the political stuff dies off.<br>I try to start new threads about different things, but generally get poked fun at. (not that I'm mad)<br><br>It's not much fun for me here anymore.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:15 PM

It has been suggested before and hasn't happened. I don't see the need for a separate lounge or forum for political posts. Face it, this is just how things are in a political election year, it'll die down after November. In the meantime, if the political posts don't interest you, ignore them. Simple as that. <br><br>You don't go to a social gathering and sequester those people talking politics or sports, etc., do you? Same thing here. It's just the way it is. <br><br>
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:20 PM

Exactly what I was trying to say. Thanks John.<br><br>
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:22 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If anyone wants to know: If I lived in a battleground state I would still vote Kerry as this is the only way to get NotBush.<p><hr></blockquote><p>The we'll be stuck with Dem' Repub's (Democrats and Republicans) ad infinitum. Every drop of water counts in a body of water; we're not even making any puddles until you vote your conscience for who you believe is really the best candidate容ven if s/he's a longshot. Also, your statement about voting for 'A' just to get 'B' (or 'W' as the case may be) out counts toward the gallop poll bozos who tell us that the only "feasible" choices are A or B and not C (or D or E or...).<br><br>A lot of us think the Electoral College process is outdated and not useful. To change that will take an amendment. But there's nothing in the Constitution that says we have a two-party system耀o why do we keep acting like that's our only choice?<br><br>
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:24 PM

Because there really are no other decent options.<br><br>
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:26 PM

Aw PHOOOOEY! You LURED ME IN! See what I mean? I come in here for fun and relaxation, not stressing myself out! *SPIT* *COUGH* UGH! I think I'll go listen to a baseball game. Have a great time in here ya'll. I'm out.<br><br>
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:36 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Because there really are no other decent options<p><hr></blockquote><p>Then you'd be voting your conscience staying within the two-parties. That's good. But for the people that whine about the two options sucking (implying that there's only two options), they need to look hard at other candidates.<br><br>The media really only follows the public's lead, broadcasting that which sells (hate to break it to you Sean and Matt, it's neither liberal nor conservative, it's just interested in money). If we can't take two seconds to respond to anything but the two parties, then we may never see any coverage of a third or fourth candidate. It was exciting in the last 20 years when both Perot and Nader were making waves, but outside of them (and they barely got sincere coverage), I can't recall ever seeing any serious coverage of an "outside" candidate. We are responsible for showing the media that we want that coverage, not the other way around.<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 01:50 PM

I just cannot seem to deal with who I'm going to vote for. I really think it will be Nader in the end, but I can't tell my wife or family, they might hurt me. <br><br>I know a lot people think he's a radical, but why, really? What does he propose that is more radical than is going on during this administration, or more 'fatcat' like during the previous one?<br><br>This is not a rhetorical question, can someone tell me why Nader is considered so radical?? When I saw him speak a month or so ago it all just made sense to me, but maybe therein lies the reason... <br><br><br><br>Ben, don't go!!! Nooooooooo! <br><br>
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 02:05 PM

I believe he's considered radical not because of "radical leftist" views but because of radical changes he would attempt to make. As a career consumer advocate, Nader would attempt take away a lot of the privileged advantages that corporations hold over the individual American consumer, as well as create tougher regulatory standards. For example, in 2000, Nader was actively trying to expose how the auto industry is avoiding complying with emissions standards by selling and marketing more SUVs. SUVs are part of the light-duty truck classification and because, in the past, these were working vehicles, the regulations were more lax than they were for majority of consumer vehicles. Not only is the auto industry avoiding the regulatory standards, but they are making a much higher per-unit profit on SUVs than cars (I don't have an ethical problem with that, but it shows where additional motivation for the industry comes from to sell an SUV over a car, exacerbating the emissions problem). Consumer Reports just did an article about how Subaru is raising the chassis on the 2004 models of the Outback one inch to change it from being classified as a consumer vehicle to being classified as a light-duty work vehicle (SUV) so they can avoid doing the work to come into line with emissions standards. <br><br>Nader is the kind of guy that would call, "BS!" on all of this and try to change the definitions of what is a consumer vehicle and what is a work vehicle regardless of the lobbying efforts in Washington to the contrary. That's pretty "radical" by D.C.'s standards. <br><br>Unfortunately, he'd have a battle with both Dems and Repubs in Congress that do yield to lobbyists' interests. But in the end, the issue gets brought up at least, as opposed to not even acknowledging the loopholes in the regulation.<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 03:56 PM

Hmmm... its as I suspected. I'm a crazy radical! <br><br>Thanks for the post.<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 05:46 PM

You met with a good deal of resentment <br>when you started telling everyone how <br>you'd like the forum to be rearranged to <br>suit you THE FIRST DAY ON THE FORUM.<br><br>Chiming in with a few obnoxious members <br>didn't do much for your popularity either.<br><br>Wanna re-post linx? I gottem' too. <br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 05:51 PM

....and....<br>Have you ever noticed: <br>that the same people that whine about the politicals<br>...are the same ones that invariably post in them?<br><br>lol<br>They're the second to jump in, and the last to leave.<br><br>You figure it out.<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: JohnR

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 05:59 PM

If you are refering to me, cause I "whine about politicals", I might have posted some, though not much. And I'm usually the first to leave.<br><br>
Posted by: srumrill

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 07:09 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>You met with a good deal of resentment when you started telling everyone how you'd like the forum to be rearranged to suit you THE FIRST DAY ON THE FORUM.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Just to be accurate, I had been lurking the forums for quite a while before I finally registered and started posting. So, it's not like I had no idea what the forum was like. And I never TOLD anyone how the forums should be. I made a suggestion about the forum could possibly be a more friendly and welcoming place, which was met with undue hostility. Not a great way to welcome a new poster. And yes, even newbies can have good suggestions too! In fact, I had several other members think that my suggestion was a good idea. Sometimes being in a forum for so long, people can easily forget what it's like being a newcomer, and they forget it's not THEIR forum exculsively.<br><br>
Posted by: srumrill

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 07:15 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>You don't go to a social gathering and sequester those people talking politics or sports, etc., do you? Same thing here. It's just the way it is.<p><hr></blockquote><p>So Mike, there are currently 4 forums here at MacMinute. Do you think they should all be put into one? Or does sometimes it make sense to split up forums into particular interests like... say... Mac issues vs. lounge vs. reader suggestions vs. special projects vs. politics.<br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 07:33 PM

all in 1...that's my preference. i cannot remember the last time i've visited another forum here. i forget they exist. if those other forums aren't too active then why not bring them here? we do a lot of mac talk here anyway.<br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat値 Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/17/04 11:25 PM

...because when I have a technical issue with my Mac that I want answered, I don't want it buried by 40 posts about whatnot before I can read the responses. <br><br>
Posted by: SacredBovine

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 02:44 AM

How many of your 2811 posts have addressed a "technical issue with my Mac that I want answered" (versus your "posts about whatnot)"?<br><br>I could do a search but my guess would be around...oh, say...none?<br><br>Or perhaps one? <br><br>Moo?
Posted by: Lori

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 05:28 AM

don't worry square, if everyone posts the technical /help posts in the MM Local forum, they won't get lost. I really think most of us do use that forum for it's intended purpose.<br><br><br>My Stuff
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 08:45 AM

This says it all, I think.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: drjohn

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 08:55 AM

LOL!<br><br>
Posted by: Celandine

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 09:50 AM

You SAY you were a long time lurker<br>but have no proof, since you <br><br>ahhhh screw it<br><br>woz the point.<br><br>btw,<br>here you are again.<br>whining in the political thread.<br><br>catch a clue<br><br>[color:green]"...or am I a butterfly that's dreaming she's a woman?"</font color=green>
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 10:38 AM

What? Um, yes, I have posted "whatnot"... IN THE LOUNGE. That was my point. When I want something technical answered, I post it in the Mac Local. That was my point as well. I rarely start a thread in the lounge, I just participate in them. I have, however, started many threads in the Mac Local because I needed help with something. I post my questions there so that if I don't get back to them right away the thread is not buried on page four of the forum like they would be in the Lounge.<br><br>So what bug is up your butt?<br><br>EDIT: BTW, I went back and looked at my posting history and for the 10 pages that I sifted through, there was at least one post to the Mac Local (usually three or more). Why don't you go make a sacred pair of shoes or something out of yourself .<br><br>
Posted by: SacredBovine

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 03:19 PM

Ouch. I'm wounded.<br><br>Hey no need to get cranky there Squareman - did ya miss the emoticon? My point, as facetious as it was, is that the few times you actually post a thread with a tech question, a number way less than a single percentage point, could quite easily be accommodated within the lounge as many others' are. You disagree.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I post my questions there so that if I don't get back to them right away the thread is not buried on page four of the forum like they would be in the Lounge.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Maybe you set your threads per page lower than I but I find no difficulty keeping up to date with thread progress when I'm here every day (as you seem to be) and the active threads are always bumped anyway.<br><br>Your 2800+ posts here appear to give you the right to tell me to "go make a sacred pair of shoes or something" out of myself so I'll leave it there if you have no objection?<br><br>Moo?
Posted by: squareman

Re: Political Lounge - 06/18/04 10:30 PM

Apparently you missed the emoticon too. I'll repeat: <br><br>