SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!!

Posted by: six_of_one

SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/03/04 09:03 PM

Man what a ride! VERY nerve-wracking!<br><br>But it looks like Spirit is down okay and we may see imagery from the surface in the next few hours - great stuff!!<br><br>=D =D =D<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Mactico

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/03/04 09:21 PM

Thanks for the beautiful desktop picture you give to us this morning.<br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pura Vida</font color=green>
Posted by: G4Dualie

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/03/04 09:54 PM

Want video? Check this out!<br><br>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/gallery/<br><br><br><br>"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/03/04 11:47 PM

Can't wait to see some pictures from it. Great stuff!<br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Firat inages are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:12 AM

Here's the first I've been able to grab - panorama looking straight down on the rover; the circular edge is the horizon of Mars ;-)<br><br><br><br>This is an amazing night - I don't think I'll be getting any sleep soon ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Firat inages are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:47 AM

where are the images? are they public yet?<br><br><pre>PMG5/1.8Ghz/1GBRAM, PBG3/400Mhz/768MBRAM, AirportX</pre><p>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:47 AM

are you connected to the project?<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 12:59 AM

Not to pee in anyone's pumpkin, but.... Am I the only one that really doesn't give a crap? I mean, rah rah for getting a golf cart on Mars. Oh boy, more pictures of dirt and rocks! Can't wait!<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 01:15 AM

truthfully i don't have the figures on what it has cost us to do this nor the figures on what possible benefits there may be to the average taxpayer for being able to land vehicles on mars.. but i am sure there will be a long cost overrun before profits start to return, if ever.<br><br>meanwhile a billion problems that would probably cost a billionth of the cost of looking at Mars, to fix and would make this planet habitable for many more centuries .. have been ignored so that we can do this.<br><br>i really do hope that is going to come good on the bottom line.<br><br>but as you say .. dirt and rocks .. not much good without water.<br><br>who salted the claim?<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Firat inages are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:16 AM

I've been looking, but that's the only one I've found yet ... although they're just finishing another press confab, so there be more coming soon =)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:18 AM

I wish I could say I was ;-)<br><br>I'm of the generation that grew up with the Russian and American space programs, and this kind of stuff just thrills me ...<br><br>If I'm getting to enthusiastic about this stuff, just let me know and I'll shut up ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 01:34 AM

Hell, I got dirt and rocks out in the lawn... I can paint them red and take pictures if you'd like (I've got spare time).<br><br>Unless there are hot Martian babes and rivers of beer up there, I'm simply not interested.<br><br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 01:38 AM

I think that out of all of the stuff we spend money on, going into space is one of the most valuable. I'd much rather be able to travel to space then say we have the largest military in the world for example. <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:52 AM

when you say you are of the generation ..<br>how old were you when they allegedly landed on the moon?<br>not that i am saying they didn't .. <br>just that it was difficult for me to do accurate checking.. from here.<br><br><br>but that aside.. let's discuss how you felt, back then.<br><br>for my part i will simplify and say that we were generally of the belief that we would be able to colonize the moon.<br>we were agog.<br>but what of the moon? <br>what more did we bother with it?<br>what did we gather?<br>what did we do with what we gathered?<br>i still have not seen any signs of moon mining machines or even technology destined to probably improve conditions on earth, being placed on the moon.<br>we went there .. we forgot it .. we haven't even been back to change the batteries in the clocks we left there.<br>not to mention the myriads of watchmakers that vanished into the lunar program and never came out.<br>tell me what is going to Mars going to achieve?<br>we are still arguing about life on earth .. how the hell will we be able to figure out what life is all about .. on Mars?<br>about all we may have a chance of knowing is that life itself may have come to earth from Mars .. or maybe that funny looking comet.. so what.. that was probably a given anyway .. had not we invented God.<br><br>no no don't let me make you shut up<br>I am not here to put your enthusiasm down<br>please let us continue .. since the only way is forward. <br><br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 01:56 AM

I am not arguing that we do not have money for space exploration.. since we obviously do.. <br>I agree that the monies and lives spent on war would have been far better spent on unravelling the secrets of the universe.<br>I do wonder about the objectives, the aims, goals, outcomes, purposes, whatever your words may be for such exploits but I am well aware of the benefits of knowledge ... as in balance with the needless destruction of grey matter.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 02:01 AM

Well, if the benefits of the various space programs aren't apparent by now, I doubt I could convince you - although that computer you're typing on might be several times the size and expense if that development hadn't taken place (as an example) ...<br><br>The cost of the Rover missions, IIRC, is 140 Million US$. I don't know what budget year(s) this cost came out of, but taking the lowest in the possible range (2000-2003), that would mean the total US budget (for 2000) was 1,458,008,000,000 dollars. This program thus would in a worst-case scenario (i.e. the entire cost subtracted in that single year) represent .096% of that budget ...<br><br>The total NASA budget request for FY 2003 was $15 billion US, and I don't know if they got all of it. If they did, with an estimated 2003 budget of 1,772,280,000,000 US$, NASA would take up 0.846% of that budget ...<br><br>Compared to, say, the defense budget of this country - or, say, that of Australia - that's a trifling amount, and one I would suggest is well worth making in the advance of human knowledge, especially given that space exploration doesn't harm or take any innocent lives (or very many non-innocent ones, for that matter ;-) ...<br><br>But you're right, in an alternate world, we would spend all of our $$ on solving the world's problems, and none on arts, science, or anything else non-essential to survival ... but that wouldn't necessarily advance us any further as a species, which exploration of the unknown at least has the potential of doing ...<br><br>And why pick on the space program? All things considered it's a very benign project, and certainly there's larger, more destructive boondoggles to go after that benefit nobody but the rich and/or greedy ...<br><br>i really do hope that is going to come good on the bottom line.<br><br>but as you say .. dirt and rocks .. not much good without water.<br><br>Knowledge is always a good thing - it's what we do with it that matters.<br><br>And the establishing the existence of water (and perhaps life?) on Mars is precisely the objective of the mission - they didn't pick a suspected dry lake bed for nothing, you know ;-)<br><br>=)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 02:16 AM

Am well aware that the computer and many other things were either created out of necessity of war or space exploration or at least had accelerated development due to those stresses..<br>Not that i would have been any better off with these improvements other than the fact that i am now able to argue with the likes of you.<br><br>Interesting that you know the size of the Australian defence budget. That would place you in a position of greater awareness than approx 99% of your nation.<br><br>Not so sure about your statement regarding the taking of lives .. innocent or otherwise. There is much that will come to light yet on such subjects.<br><br>No i am wrong .. there would never be no money left over for arts science or advancement of us as a knowledgable species .., since at the very least these things were all in place before the space race.<br><br>Why pick on the space race? .. Who said i was? <br>I did say i was wondering what the goals etc were .. who benefits, etc., et al.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 02:27 AM

how old were you when they allegedly landed on the moon?<br>not that i am saying they didn't ...<br><br>I was eight years old at the time of the US moon landings (born just a bit after the advent of the space age =) ...<br><br>And how can you use the word "allegedly" and not imply that you don't believe it happened? Regardless, the technology derived from those programs, whether successful or not, has advanced humanity for the better, IMHO ...<br><br>That the US (at least) lost interest in pursuing lunar exploration and exploitation is one of the great travesties of our time ... the knowledge and possible benefits to humanity that was missed in further exploring along those lines I can't even begin to fathom. In the early 70's for example, there were credible proposals for self-sustaining colonies and satellites that would harness solar energy and return it to the earth for use - these proposals even got to the point of being presented in Congressional hearings, but were rebuffed in the general malaise this country had developed at that time about further development in space - the shuttle being a mere hollow shell of that potential that was/is only moderately successful as a result of halfhearted Congressional and Administrative commitment ...<br><br> I find the recent Chinese efforts in that area intriguing, and hope that it may spur a healthy (i.e. non-militaristic) competition between us and them, or maybe even a more-healthy cooperation (!), but these days I don't hold out much hope ...<br><br>As I've said in my post above, if you don't see any benefit from the various space programs, I doubt I could convince you - but to just reiterate that the expense is not nearly than that of a vast myriad of other projects, and unlike them, aside form the monetary cost, there is very little negative impact from such exploration ...<br><br>As to what we hope to achieve on Mars, I would say that at this point in time it's the same as the altruistic reasons for going to the Moon (as opposed to the "space race" reasons), which is to advance our knowledge about the environment of which we are part and to discover, if possible, whether life exists/has existed elsewhere - which would probably have more of a philosophical impact on our species than a purely material or scientific one (although those would be worthy reasons in and of themselves =) ...<br><br>And don't worry, if there's something I feel needs saying, you certainly won't be able to shut me up ;-) But I appreciate your willingness for discussion =)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 03:03 AM

Not that i would have been any better off with these improvements other than the fact that i am now able to argue with the likes of you.<br><br>Well, the computer was only one example. Advances made in the areas of medicines, textiles, agriculture, construction materials, etc. are only a few other attributable directly to space programs - I daresay you or I probably don't realize the full impact these advances have on our lives today ...<br><br>Interesting that you know the size of the Australian defence budget. That would place you in a position of greater awareness than approx 99% of your nation<br><br>If I googled correctly, Australia's defense budget is about 15 billion $AU for FY 2003, while total budget for 2003-2004 (FY2004?) is 178 billion $AU ... I admit I didn't have those figures on the top of my head, but then I doubt 99% of any country's population does ;-)<br><br>Not so sure about your statement regarding the taking of lives .. innocent or otherwise. There is much that will come to light yet on such subjects.<br><br>Ummm ... not really sure what you're driving at here, but NASA deaths and injuries have been well-documented, and to a lesser degree so has those of the Soviet/Russian programs - not too sure about the Chinese- I'll have to look those up if I can ...<br><br>There is much that will come to light yet on such subjects.<br><br>Well, don't be coy ... if there's something you know that you wish to share with the class, then by all means do so ;-)<br><br>If you're referring to the close ties between the US military and NASA, you may very well be right - but AFAIK, no planetary expeditions have had such a relationship, but I guess that is a possibility as well ...<br><br>No i am wrong .. there would never be no money left over for arts science or advancement of us as a knowledgable species .., since at the very least these things were all in place before the space race.<br><br>Well, of course I was exaggerating to make a point, as were you =) The point being that NASA's expenditures are a mere bagatelle in the grand scheme of things, and the main reason it attracts such criticisms as it does is that it's a very high-profile, transparent agency which when it fails, usually does so in spectacularly public fashion, usually on national if not worldwide broadcasts - unlike much larger more clandestine and insidious (although equally spectacular) failures of other projects/agencies that never see an equally bright light played upon them ...<br><br>I did say i was wondering what the goals etc were .. who benefits, etc., et al.<br><br>Unfortunately, we are having this discussion in two separate places - I address this in my response to your post lower in this thread =)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 03:24 AM

eight? gosh a juvenile.<br><br>allegedly is a legal term that implys nothing, nor alleges anything. <br><br>The technology did not actually require a landing on the moon .. It only required a space race, a cold war and gullible taxpayers.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>That the US (at least) lost interest in pursuing lunar exploration and exploitation is one of the great travesties of our time ... the knowledge and possible benefits to humanity that was missed in further exploring along those lines I can't even begin to fathom. In the early 70's for example, there were credible proposals for self-sustaining colonies and satellites that would harness solar energy and return it to the earth for use - these proposals even got to the point of being presented in Congressional hearings, but were rebuffed in the general malaise this country had developed at that time about further development in space - the shuttle being a mere hollow shell of that potential that was/is only moderately successful as a result of halfhearted Congressional and Administrative commitment ...<p><hr></blockquote><p>hmm have you ever been told that you have burn't your bridges?<br>the above is hardly a good curriculum vitae.<br><br>and as for your relations with the Chinese.. can i stop laughing yet?<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>As I've said in my post above, if you don't see any benefit from the various space programs, I doubt I could convince you - <p><hr></blockquote><p>point is you are judging me way ahead of judging yourself.<br>From your statements, one can see that it is not within your capacity to convince anyone, let alone me.<br>As if that was the actual goal of the conversation, which it is not.<br><br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>but to just reiterate that the expense is not nearly than that of a vast myriad of other projects, and unlike them, aside form the monetary cost, there is very little negative impact from such exploration ...<p><hr></blockquote><p>The facts are that the expense is far greater than the cost of thousands of lives and millions of livelyhoods<br>and you are completely glossing over the costs of resource reduction, chemical contamination etc etc.<br><br>Mars actually has been coming here for far longer than we have been living here.<br>What do you expect to find that you cannot see from here? We are fairly sure that life could not have gotten here unless God put it here, if the planet was anything like what Mars looks like today, at the time.<br> There is no point attempting to brainwash the populace into contemplating colonies on Mars .. We know that from the moon already.<br><br>Whatever philosophies we are going to unravel from rocks on Mars, will certainly astound me.<br><br><br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 03:27 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Unfortunately, we are having this discussion in two separate places - I address this in my response to your post lower in this thread =)<p><hr></blockquote><p> well KISS keep it simple then.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 03:59 AM

With that kind of attitude, mankind would have never set forth on voyages to discover places such as North America. It's just in the makeup of mankind to want to explore. You surely did it as a kid yourself in your own limited sphere of existence, no? By that I mean, let's say you were little and moved to a new neighborhood. Once there you ventured out beyond the confines of your parent's property to explore your surroundings, right? Same principle is at work here, only here we are venturing to another planet. It's in the cards, no stopping it fortunately.<br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

*sigh* - 01/04/04 04:04 AM

I'm sorry, was I being insulting to you? If so, please accept my heartfelt apologies, as that surely was not my intent.<br><br>***matt<br><br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:17 AM

I was 9 when the Russians launched Sputnik. I was crushed that the "commies" beat the U.S. into space, but at the same time I was simpley dazzled and elated by the accomplishment! Space has had a lock on my imagination ever since (well, Buck Rogers kinda was their first ).<br><br>Thanks for the posts, six. I just wish some others would put aside their politics and social "conciouses" just long enough to marvel at what mankind can do when it's not playing with guns. <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:36 AM

as usual .. you are all missing my points.. <br>the problem is obviously due to political patriotism, national pride or whatever your personal kink may be .. combined with the fact that i do speak funny.. i admit.. but i am speaking more from a universal point of view.. as to me it is not important who gets where first or who is the smartest. I don't see money as an argument for anything. i know i am different.. but it won't hurt you to try to understand me .. surely.<br><br>it is true that much about the Australian contributions to the things that have occurred in America's glorious space history has been suppressed or simply passed over. We don't mind .. we were as entusiastic as you about it all and indeed we could well have been the leaders.. If we had your markets and population. We have always collaborated with you on these things gladly. Why we even blew our drought stricken defence budget way out so we could support the war.<br>Why you see me as a protagonist baffles me.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: *sigh* - 01/04/04 04:38 AM

it is hard to insult me.<br> i only answer what is in front of me<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Well, the computer was only one example. Advances made in the areas of medicines, textiles, agriculture, construction materials, etc. are only a few other attributable directly to space programs - I daresay you or I probably don't realize the full impact these advances have on our lives today ...<p><hr></blockquote><p>and who is to say that we would have needed most of this had it not been foisted on us to pay the bills buy purchasing it? I am quite sure that whichever path we had taken we would have developed equally as fast or faster. Especially in areas of need, which all of the above are.. Need is the source of invention. As I have repeatedly said; I am hardly a protagonist on the issue of space exploration, rather more attempting to fine tune the need. Since waste occurs when the correct need is not defined and needless expense of resources life and time are frittered away on the whim of this or that lobby group. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>If I googled correctly, Australia's defense budget is about 15 billion $AU for FY 2003, while total budget for 2003-2004 (FY2004?) is 178 billion $AU ... I admit I didn't have those figures on the top of my head, but then I doubt 99% of any country's population does ;-)<p><hr></blockquote><p>These budget figures are not representative of our normal defence budget. They are the cost of wars we did not start. but we will not go into that here.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Ummm ... not really sure what you're driving at here, but NASA deaths and injuries have been well-documented, and to a lesser degree so has those of the Soviet/Russian programs - not too sure about the Chinese- I'll have to look those up if I can ...<p><hr></blockquote><p>As I said. There is still much that will come to light yet on such subjects. Like the above figures of defence.. things can be interpreted in many ways and many costs can remain unrevealed for many years.<br><br>To take things as gospel on the word of.. is simply negligent of what the real truth may be. An example of such was when we were rationalizing our whole economy based on figures that had neglected to have included the household .. which actually was 53% of the total economy.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Well, don't be coy ... if there's something you know that you wish to share with the class, then by all means do so ;-)<p><hr></blockquote><p>I doubt you or anyone could believe that you called me coy.... are you sure about that?<br><br>as i said .. events will come to light in the fullness of time.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> The point being that NASA's expenditures are a mere bagatelle in the grand scheme of things, and the main reason it attracts such criticisms as it does is that it's a very high-profile, transparent agency which when it fails, usually does so in spectacularly public fashion, usually on national if not worldwide broadcasts - unlike much larger more clandestine and insidious (although equally spectacular) failures of other projects/agencies that never see an equally bright light played upon them ...<p><hr></blockquote><p> <br><br>Well that part is not my particular problem but one of your own nations making and solution. But it pretty much had nil relation to my statement .. so i left it in to remind you of that fact. <br>Also... When you see me exagerating .. i will buy the drinks.. my points don’t need exagerating.<br><br>To move on .. What is the cost of the various telescopes, sent out to probe deeper into space?<br>Do you not concede that the mission is to find life, on planets that can sustain life?<br>Do you not concede that these telescopes could well give us far more useful information than we can expect from landing on Mars.<br>Would you not consider that within the scope of all of this marvellous equipment that we have created, that there is not a possibility that we can find out more about life itself without leaving the planet at all? ... Until we find one worth the trouble that is. Then again .. if it is liveable .. then it will be sustaining life. We won’t be able to get away with the “terra nullis” clause this time.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 04:41 AM

I don't know about skrue but i at least was referring to the fact that this bit of real estate was not giving much indication of being as valuable as some other properties we could be looking at.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:47 AM

What was that, 1958-59? I was about the same age. I saw the Sputnik in person in NYC, or perhaps it was a replica, at the Museum of Modern History or whatever it was, a few years later. Yeah, quite awe inspiring then. Things really took off when JFK initiated the space program to get a man on the moon. Those were some pioneering times in space exploration. Money well-spent if you ask me. <br><br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 04:51 AM

Such as what other properties? Not sarcasm, but rather curiosity. Your evaluation may be true for this moment in time and in relation to current technologies, but 20, 30, 50 years out, what Mars and other planets offer maybe be of immeasurable value to us. Of course, how such value is used or abused is another matter entirely.<br><br>And, of course, in half a century, it could also prove even less valuable than it is today. Only our children and grandchildren will know for sure. Maybe by then our species will have begun to "get it". Keep an open mind, TB. We aren't nuclear dust just yet. <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 04:52 AM

Well, perhaps we will see the Chinese make a real effort to get things going on the moon, then we won't be far behind I guess. Competition may be what takes us back to the moon more than anything else. Although, I feel it is far more valuable to build on the technology required for deep space travel. Engage!<br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 04:54 AM

smile that's more like it. <br><br>yeah but we already know that Mars isn't going to be much more than the moon was to us.<br><br>good hunters look for water and wait.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 04:56 AM

now that could well be a valid point for you lot are definitely competitive.<br><br>but somehow i think the Chinese will surprise even you.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 05:13 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>as usual .. you are all missing my points.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yep, we's jus' a bunch o' dum yankees, we iz. <br><br>No, bro, you don't speak funny. People in my 'hood (Brooklyn, NY) speak funny. But why must every singular topic always be subjected to the global view of doom? Not to espouse denialism, but, sheesh, some things can be celebrated on their own merits, can't they? <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 05:16 AM

Aye, Captain. Oi'm givinner awl she's goot! <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 05:26 AM

yes .. indeed this is where we must be aiming deeper<br><br><br>The thing is, all we may find on Mars <br>is .. that we used to live there.<br>before we came here.<br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: *sigh* - 01/04/04 05:29 AM

it is hard to insult me.<br>i only answer what is in front of me<br><br>Odd then. I wonder why you felt it necessary to needlessly insult me in (what I thought to be at least) an otherwise civil conversation?<br><br>and who is to say that we would have needed most of this had it not been foisted on us to pay the bills buy purchasing it?<br><br>I'm sorry but I haven't slept all night - I just can't seem to parse that sentence. Can you rephrase it perhaps?<br><br>I am quite sure that whichever path we had taken we would have developed equally as fast or faster.<br><br>An interesting proposition - I'm not sure I agree with it, but it does provide food for thought ... although it does not take away from the fact that these advances in our timeline *were* greatly facilitated by space programs, with apparently little cost in lives or treasure ... but as you say, time will out. I find it hard to believe there's a big huge boogeyman out there waiting to be discovered, however, but we'll see ...<br><br>As I have repeatedly said; I am hardly a protagonist on the issue of space exploration, rather more attempting to fine tune the need.<br><br>Are you sure you don't meant "antagonist" here? But I hear what your saying - but I would define the urge to explore and advance knowledge as a "need" - one that man has had to satisfy since his very beginnings. That and that satisfying this particular need appears to facilitate solving other, perhaps more critical ones closer to home without causing an inordinate amount of new ones (IMHO) =)<br><br>These budget figures are not representative of our normal defence budget. They are the cost of wars we did not start. but we will not go into that here.<br><br>You're right, the average defense budget from 1985 to 1998 appears to have averaged around 11-12 Billion $AU per year, starting to go up with East Timor in '99 and then essentially staying there and higher for Afghanistan and Iraq ... it looks like it'll go even higher - over 16 Billion $AU in 2010 if projections hold ...<br><br>As I said. There is still much that will come to light yet on such subjects. Like the above figures of defence.. things can be interpreted in many ways and many costs can remain unrevealed for many years.<br><br>True, but the civilian space program in the US has been a very open project - almost to a fault - and I would expect there are comparatively few skeletons in that closet ...<br><br>To take things as gospel on the word of.. is simply negligent of what the real truth may be.<br><br>Indeed, as is taking everything as heresy - one needs to find that sweet spot in the middle to get closest to the knowable "truth" ... however at some point one must put a certain amount of faith in history. I guess the question is how long is needed to arrive at that point?<br><br>Do you not concede that the mission is to find life, on planets that can sustain life?<br><br>I would concede that is *one* mission - another is to learn more about our own planet, the ones in our neighborhood, our galaxy, and the universe in general so that we may learn ways to improve our lives, either here on earth or beyond it should we ever decide to go ...<br><br>Do you not concede that these telescopes could well give us far more useful information than we can expect from landing on Mars.<br><br>I'd say that depends entirely on the information. If you're looking at the geology of other planets - whether or not that have water or can sustain life; what their history was like - how they developed and came to be the way they are - then telescopes can only provide a certain amount of information, and probably could not hold a candle to an actual on-the-spot visit.<br><br>Would you not consider that within the scope of all of this marvellous equipment that we have created, that there is not a possibility that we can find out more about life itself without leaving the planet at all?<br><br>Obviously the possibilities are endless. However, with this mindset, man should have never left his cave and waited to discover all he needed or wanted to know about the Earth without venturing fifty paces from his front door ... maybe that would have worked, I don't know ...<br><br>=)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 05:32 AM

The thing is, all we may find on Mars <br>is .. that we used to live there.<br>before we came here.<br><br>And wouldn't that be worth knowing?<br><br>;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: iraszl

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 06:40 AM

Apparently it seems like we know that already. No need to go the extra mile for that, we can stay home watch tele. Buffy's new season is on! <br><br><pre>PMG5/1.8Ghz/1GBRAM, PBG3/400Mhz/768MBRAM, AirportX</pre><p>
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 07:09 AM

Oh my gosh, what you said is so funny. That same question was beaten to death my one of my recent posts. <br><br>A word to the wise, you're wasting your time. Nobody is going to listen to you. Everyone has an opinion and they're going to speak their minds. Just accept that others don't agree.<br><br>The thread killer
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 08:29 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>That same question was beaten to death my one of my recent posts.<p><hr></blockquote><p>No sh!t. That's my point: the wider the frame, the more stuff you see, and the law of averages says more stuff means more bad stuff, too. Ok, it's out there. But do we have to go looking for it every minute of the day?<br><br>Maybe I'm overly optimistic, but when something good comes along, I prefer to say "hey look, something to take my mind off the crap for a while." Unfortunately, there are those who just can't allow good to have anything but 2nd billing. Politics, science, the price of eggs... <br><br> Man has 10 toes.<br> All of which will probably develop haingnails.<br><br>You're right. Ya can't win fer losin'. <br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 08:33 AM

<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 10:14 AM

Very cool <br><br> [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 12:35 PM

I am not and have not been arguing that anything is not worth knowing.<br><br>Though I doubt that we will find any evidence of our Martian space program. <br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 12:39 PM

Well we do have some fairly good idea of what we will find on Mars and I wasn't actually saying we should not go there or anywhere.<br>Anywhere would be better than in front of the television.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:41 PM

as you do, as you do.<br><br>I don't generally voice opinions as much as i simply question yours.<br><br>I only reply in the vein of your replies<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:47 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> All of which will probably develop haingnails.<p><hr></blockquote><p> speak for yourself wink luuckily probability was on my side with that one. ;)<br><br>Don't get me wrong, by polishing your own ego.<br><br>This will always get an argument.<br><br>I never said Yaanks were a bunch of dunderheads .. All i said was that generally, American self assuredness and political patriotism gets in the way of a decent conversation.. <br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:50 PM

nothing wrong with national pride <br><br>but it can be a bit overbearing to expect the rest of the world to be proud of your flag.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 12:58 PM

[vexxed]Thanks for the input. The judge and I will consider our shoes properly pissed on. [/vexxed]<br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:01 PM

well get your aim straight. ;)<br><br><br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:07 PM

Will do...<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: sross

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:13 PM

That's sad because I am proud of your flag and the flag of any other freedom-loving nation.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:22 PM

And I wouldn't ever consider any other shampoo.<br><br><br><br>...until now, that is. <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 01:56 PM

heh just letting you know that I ain't a flag waver .. go ahead and wave your own flags .. just don't expect it to impress anyone.<br><br>and hey we still haven't got a kangaroo on our flag, though not through want of trying.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 02:01 PM

and this is fine, there are things to be proud of no doubt.<br>no one said there was anything wrong with pride .. except that it goeth before a fall.<br><br>and being constrained within the pride and patriotism of the bit of cloth is not really a part of the definition of freedom.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 02:08 PM

Well... flag-waving isn't necessarily about impressing anyone. It's about expressing pride in your country — even when it's stepped in deep kaka. So believe me, I don't ecpect to impress you. However, you must be quite impressed with yourself, given that you assume you can speak for the rest of the world. <blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>.. just don't expect it to impress anyone.<p><hr></blockquote><p>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 02:21 PM

smile here we go again.. <br><br>all i initially said was there seemed as if there was no water on Mars so it wasn't a good buy as a future development site .. i never expected it to go on this long.<br><br>and i only read the news and express what the news says .. not my impression of the news nor am I making out anything about myself.. this is a problem of your own .. not mine.<br><br>If you think I think I am speaking for the world and that therefore all of your hate for the rest of the world should be directed at me for repeating what i read.. then do so but trying to blame me for it all is is not indicitative of good communication skills nor awareness.<br><br>I have not ever tried to make out that my knowledge is infallible .. all I have tried to point out is that thinking your nation is infallible, is a tiny flaw in your arguments that can easily become a chasm of ignorance. Which indeed has been proven in this conversation.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/04/04 03:32 PM

<br>he certainly looks happy :)<br>The $400 million rover Spirit, designed to conduct unprecedented geologic and photographic surveys on the Martian surface, transmitted a simple hello to Earth minutes after landing.<br><br>read full story<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 03:53 PM

Here we go again indeed. I'm not familiar with the thread in which I or anyone else said that this or any other country is infallible. Perhaps you can stop the double-talk long enough to point out said thread?<br><br>Better yet, let's play a little game, shall we? I'll say "black", and you'll say...?<br><br>*rubbing temples vigorously*<br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:12 PM

well if you want we can play that game all day but as you pointed out, it gets nowhere.<br> the Worm Ouroboros<br><br><br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:34 PM

Perhaps you can stop the double-talk long enough to point out said thread?<br><br>Well, it certainly isn't this one - I started it out to marvel at mankind's ability to successfully place a sophisticated piece of robotic machinery on another planetary body 300+ million miles away and it somehow turned into some kind of bizarre geoplolitical/patriotic pissing fest =P<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:36 PM

Ya think? I hadn't noticed! <br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:37 PM

You mean you have evidence that the rover actually landed on Mars? I mean, you know, some pictures--anyone could photoshop that stuff. I want hard evidence. <br><br> [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:40 PM

But yoyo, rocks are hard evidence! <br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 04:59 PM

all i initially said was there seemed as if there was no water on Mars so it wasn't a good buy as a future development site ...<br><br>Actually, there is no question - water does exist on mars in the form of its polar ice caps. The *real* question is whether or not it may exist in liquid form under the surface, or if it ever existed in liquid form in the past on the surface ...<br><br>If so, the potential for life existing or having existed there becomes much more probable, which is why everybody is looking for it this time around ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: drjohn

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 05:02 PM

Doesn't get any harder than this.<br><br><br><br> This image taken by the hazard avoidance camera on the Mars Exploration Rover Spirit shows the rover's rear lander petal and, in the background, the Martian horizon. Spirit took the picture right after successfully landing on the surface of Mars<br><br>Image credit:NASA/JPL<br><br>drjohn's photos
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 05:02 PM

The hard evidence is undoubtedly just west of Barstow, where they also faked the Moon landings ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 05:22 PM

Yep, that is definitely just outside of Barstow, it looks quite familiar. <br><br><br><br>Treebeard, stop padding!<br><br><br><br>What truly intrigues me with space exploration is the prospect, however slim, of archeological remains. Perhaps not on Mars, but who knows? Maybe someday something will be found on some planet or even LIFE itself. <br><br>Get the lastest here.<br><br>http://marsrovers.jpl.nasa.gov/home/index.html<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

One adjustment, if you, don't mind... - 01/04/04 05:40 PM

<br><br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 05:58 PM

Hey, I just watched the PBS show on the preparation of the landers, and the engineer dudes and dudettes had PBs all over .<br><br> [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:03 PM

Can you prove that? <br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:14 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I started it out to marvel at mankind's ability to successfully place a sophisticated piece of robotic machinery on another planetary body 300+ million miles away and it somehow turned into some kind of bizarre geoplolitical/patriotic pissing fest =P<p><hr></blockquote><p>well, fwiw, i think it's pretty awesome that we are able to successfully plant the robot on mars for exploration. although it is awesome, i just don't care that much. i am probably too young as my memories of space exploration are largely dominated by space shuttles exploding (challenger was when i was in 10th grade, i think). and, we landed on the moon in 1969 and i was born a year later...i have yet to see what we've gained from that landing in terms of how the space program has developed since then (particularly with 2 shuttles exploding). i do recognize that there are many benefits in terms of computers and satelights (e.g., for cell phones, direct tv) and the like, but i would rather have seen the money directly poured into making the consumer products better rather than the consumer products indirectly benefitting from some space program. on the other hand, i think the Star Wars defense system that started being talked about under ronald reagan has some merit. i don't think it's worth spending the bazillions we're spending on that project, but i do think that space defense systems (and offensive systems) are going to be more and more important in how countries might fight wars in the distant future, but i'd like to see the "how" more concretely before the money is spent in massive amounts...and, i think 9/11 showed us that a space defense system is meaningless against terrorism, which is more likely to be the big danger we face over the next many years. i am rambling, so i'll stop, but i do think the landing was pretty nifty even if i don't care to view the photos or read the stories (and, i am just now getting to this thread because i noticed that it kept growing). <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:31 PM

and ask yourself now .. did my initial reply beggar all of these so called pissings? and re-read them carefully to try to decide who was doing the pissing?<br>i am apolitical and unpatriotic .. so it can't possibly be me.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:33 PM

:0 shock horror, you mean you don't believe? <br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:34 PM

well lets hope they get their rocks off then.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:49 PM

and we all know that the greatest likely hood is that of : what we see, we get.<br><br>We aren't 100% sure whether what we have assumed to be water ice, is actually water ... yet.<br><br>and I am aware that we cannot find out without taking samples. but it was assumed that i was not aware of this and that i did not think this was important.<br><br><br>there is not a high probability of underground water though this could be possible.<br><br>water is far more likelyto be found on one of Jupiter's moons<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 06:52 PM

life will be out there .. as long as we are going out there <br>and life has to be there since all probability points to this being true.<br><br><br><br>padding? <br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 07:08 PM

weren't you the one with Eddisons theory? <br>"in order to get ourselves to another planet we had to destroy this one"<br>An irresponsible approach to the situation unless we are going to collect on the insurance for destroying this planet.. Just think.. we may have been able to sell the aliens we oust .. this place if they let us have theirs or even clean swap.. We may by then have reduced this atmosphere to something more of their liking .. these are all conjectural possibilities ..but burning bridges was never smart.<br><br>but i do agree that the starwars program is less worthy of expenditure than landing on Mars.<br>Even though there are some merits to having such systems in place for many reasons, some of them peaceful.<br>I do disagree that we should ever plan for future wars.<br><br>and I agree the landing was nifty .. to use your phrase, if I may. Though it has already been suggested to me that maybe your landing could have been important enough to have somehow interfered with the European attempt. Though i find this as hard to believe as the concept of manipulating an artificial landing on the moon.. Not that i ever discount any theory until proves itself to be absurd. <br><br><br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: Mactico

Great Photo - 01/04/04 07:27 PM

<br><br><br><br><br>[color:green]Pura Vida</font color=green>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: Great Photo - 01/04/04 07:41 PM

yep it is a great photo.. of sand and rocks<br><br>but as important as this data may be..and it is not my intention to run down the achievement, <br><br>I can find real estate like that just out of town here.. which proves that will most likely fnd that we have already been on Mars.. it looks very much like .. our signature.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: it is old news .. but - 01/04/04 08:05 PM

I may be wrong but I haven't seen anyone posting this here yet.<br><br>There is an interesting link here to MAESTRO;<br>a java-based Mars viewing tool basing on the rovers' images!<br><br>They say it is an adaption of the tool NASA controls the rovers with.<br>But it seems you need a powerful equipment<br>(at least a G4, Panther and Java 3D) to really use it. <br><br>http://mars.telascience.org/home/<br><br><br>the traffic gets heavy .. since this was posted at slashdot but if you are patient.. all good things come to those who wait.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: sean

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 08:16 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>weren't you the one with Eddisons theory? <br>"in order to get ourselves to another planet we had to destroy this one"<br>An irresponsible approach to the situation unless we are going to collect on the insurance for destroying this planet.. Just think.. we may have been able to sell the aliens we oust .. this place if they let us have theirs or even clean swap.. We may by then have reduced this atmosphere to something more of their liking .. these are all conjectural possibilities ..but burning bridges was never smart.<p><hr></blockquote><p>you have mistaken me for someone else. i have made one post in this thread and i don't think i've ever addressed space travel and/or why or whether we'd every live anywhere but earth and i've never heard of Eddisons theory. i dont' agree with what you've written in the quote and, frankly, i hope we do all we can to save this planet including doing things that may not be scientifically 100% proven (as if anything ever is) -- e.g., i think we should have signed and stuck with the kyoto treaty even if some other countries weren't going to do it...i think we should still do what we can to protect the earth.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>but i do agree that the starwars program is less worthy of expenditure than landing on Mars.<br>Even though there are some merits to having such systems in place for many reasons, some of them peaceful.<br>I do disagree that we should ever plan for future wars.<p><hr></blockquote><p>well, i it's the peaceful reasons that are most important to me. with people like dubya in power, i would hate to see more powerful tools of destruction available at his disposal. <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 08:42 PM

apologies if i aimed wrong with that <br><br>peace<br><br>and sorry about my confusing quote<br><br> the therory was "in order to get ourselves to another planet we have to destroy this one"<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 09:52 PM

<br><br> [img]/images/wwwthreads/icons/tongue.gif[/img]
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Great Photo - 01/04/04 10:51 PM

I don't know about you guys, but for me these pictures are pretty boring. Why did they land in an abandoned lake bed? They should've landed in a nice habitated neighborhood. Like Las Vegas so that we can have a peek at all the main points of interest on Mars in small scale. <br><br><pre>PMG5/1.8Ghz/1GBRAM, PBG3/400Mhz/768MBRAM, AirportX</pre><p>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: it is old news .. but - 01/04/04 10:53 PM

Very cool!<br><br>Thanks for the link =)<br><br>****matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: it is old news .. but - 01/04/04 10:56 PM

enjoy :)<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 11:28 PM

and we all know that the greatest likely hood is that of : what we see, we get.<br><br>Well, we have to "see" first in order to determine that - Mars Express is the first capability that we've had to find out what's beneath the surface to any significant degree - which is why it's such an exciting mission. And since we've never looked there before, nobody really knows what to expect - after all, many deserts here on Earth are not really "dry" if you are able to dig down a few meters to the water table =)<br><br>We aren't 100% sure whether what we have assumed to be water ice, is actually water ... yet.<br><br>No, it's been fairly well-established that the polar caps are composed of water and carbon dioxide (dry ice) ...<br><br>and I am aware that we cannot find out without taking samples. but it was assumed that i was not aware of this and that i did not think this was important.<br><br>Actually, based on what you've written, the assumption was (at least in my case) that you WERE aware of this and still did not think it very important - perhaps you would like to clarify your position on this in general, as right now you appear to be contradicting yourself ...<br><br>there is not a high probability of underground water though this could be possible.<br><br>Please provide evidence supporting this - nobody knows what the probability is, that is one of the reasons we are there to find out ...<br><br>water is far more likelyto be found on one of Jupiter's moons<br><br>Actually, since water ice has been detected on both bodies, I would say that the probability is fairly equal ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: First images are coming in ... - 01/04/04 11:34 PM

What makes you think I was talking about you?<br><br>Methinks thou dost protest too much ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: it is old news .. but - 01/04/04 11:47 PM

WOW! that is VERY neat! Now we have on;y to wait for data to download ;-)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: G4Dualie

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 03:21 PM

I find it incredible that a post as promising as this one started out to be, would turn in to a bunch of crap about not wanting to be misunderstood. Which is the way many good posts end up. Backpedalling and explanations.<br><br>I believe six truly wanted to provide a post for discussing the possibilities related to this momentous occasion for those following the story, but then someone throws out something based on their personal belief system and turns the post into one about themselves.<br><br>Highjacking a post in order to make it about you. Great.<br><br>Someone else prefaced their comment with a "Not to pee on anyones pumpkin, but... " and follows that with a "Am I the only one who doesn't give a crap? Yeeeshhh!<br><br>Stay off the post if it's one that doesn't interest you! Then again if you're truly interested in what anyone else thinks of the topic then start your own query and see if that dog will hunt? My guess is it will sink with a 0.<br><br><br><br>"640K ought to be enough for anybody." - Bill Gates
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 03:30 PM

I don't think anyone was knocking six's posts or really for that matter, our achievments.<br> Some may be questioning our aims, some may even be simply sad and disillusioned. <br>but no matter, this is open discussion and we can choose to discuss or not discuss what any one says.. whether it is directed at us or not. You can, as they say, "turn the other cheek".<br><br>Personally i believe that a lot has been said, that is causing us all to grow. <br>This can only be a good thing.<br>On the next day, we will learn more from each other than we learn now.. and that day i always look forward to<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 03:52 PM

So, in other words, if you don't like what people are posting, just shut the heck up?<br><br>I disagree. Yes we all have the freedom to post what ever our opinion is. We also have the ability to decide if we want to rain on the parade. Why always wreck it?<br><br>If you can't say something that upflits and builds, why not shut up? I don't mean that in a rude way. Those that are sad or disolusioned may benifit from allowing the positive views of others. They may find encouragement, new insigts, or even better, learn to stop looking on the bad side of things.<br><br>The thread killer
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 04:03 PM

i can only smile at your opinion of me .. i am completely different.. but thank you for the personal approach post, not containing your usual ire inspiring propaganda, which if positive at all is only positive about America and its word domination.<br><br>by all means decry anybody else's comments as negative .. if that is how you see it. <br>But remember that nobody is really fooled. <br><br>It is not me nor me alone that wrecks threads.. it is really as much down to those whom rain shyte upon people such as myself, whom actually took the brave step and voiced a differing opinion.<br> <br>Anyway, who says threads are wrecked .. when a thread gets posts it is hardly wrecked.. all that may wrecked is the viewer's vision of perfection.<br>Well then it is up to the viewer to try to come closer to finding the perfection again.. dreams are always shattered.. when you wake up.<br><br>**why is your sig.. "thread killer"?<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 09:39 PM

I find it amusing how you put so much effort into trying to portray yourself as some sage of wisdom. <br><br>I also find it funny how you blow everything out of context.<br><br>Like so many things, you missed the point of my post. Perhaps if you came off your mountain for a minute you could see beyond the surface. <br><br>Although I hold little hope for you, I will try this one last time. If you still feel the need to make petty quips all I can do is toss up my hands and mark you on the 'clueless' list. So, here we go. Try to keep up.<br><br>What I said was it is not always necessary to be contrary to some ones post. Yes, it is possible, but why not let someone have their day in the sun? Why not join in the celebration? Share their happiness. <br><br>There you have it.<br><br>The thread killer
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 10:28 PM

[censored]-ing in your own nest. <br>Which of course you simply had to do.<br>and you are welcome .. it is you whom has to sit in it.<br><br><br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: skuldugary

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 11:03 PM

... sigh<br><br>rolling eyes...<br><br>new name added to Clueless List...<br>tap tap tap...<br><br>... sigh<br><br>The thread killer
Posted by: bird

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 11:38 PM

[censored]/shiite/ lol, I'm not sure about the spelling. <br> <br><br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 11:45 PM

Smells like bird shiite to me. <br><br>
Posted by: bird

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/05/04 11:49 PM

Much better then old phone books and dirty disposable diapers though!! lol!! <br><br>
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/06/04 01:17 AM

[censored][censored] but they just cannot stand in too much shyte for too long.<br><br>No worries though mate, I don't forsee anyone wanting a tree planter on Mars for a long while after I am gone to fertilize the forest.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."
Posted by: TreeBeard

Re: SUCCESS!! Spirit is on Mars!! - 01/06/04 01:28 AM

pleased i made it on your list mate<br>its so good to know that I made a mark<br>was beginning to think you'd never notice me<br>remember that it is never too late to communicate<br>we can kick balls back and forth and around the park till dark<br>eyes roll sigh their lids tap tap, a clueless list, is a slant unknown to be.<br><br>"Today is a gift, that's why its called the present."