Introducing Safari 4

Posted by: FSM

Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 06:44 AM

http://www.apple.com/safari/?sr=hotnews

i am pretty happy with my combo of Firefox on my Mac Pro and Flock on my Macbook . . . but a major upgrade to Safari is always worth considering. perhaps i'll check it out.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 06:55 AM

It's pretty nice - but so far, 1Password doesn't work with it, so that kills it for me until 1P gets updated.
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 08:10 AM

Since Safari 4 will overwrite 3, can I copy 3 to another folder and go back to it if I don't like 4?

Edit: Never mind
Posted by: FSM

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 08:25 AM

oh, i was all set to try it, but the 1Password issue is a deal killer for me as well.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 08:32 AM

I'm happy with FF, too. FF doesn't seem to have the issues that Safari has/had.
Posted by: SteveS

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 10:16 AM

I might play with it for a little while on one of my machines while it's still in beta. From what I've seen so far, Safari 4 looks great. I'm impressed with the speed of development. The Webkit team is kickin' butt. It supports web standards better than other browsers and is faster and more efficient. This is good for Safari and other browsers based on Webkit. If you're doing Javascript, the new Nitro engine seems to put Safari in the lead. Firefox is apparently having trouble with TraceMonkey due to stability issues.

I have to say that I'm surprised at how many people rely on an unsupported hack like 1Password. I don't doubt the convenience some get from it, but I would have thought that lessons of past stability problems would make more people wary of such apps. I guess not.
Posted by: FSM

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 10:23 AM

i guess i don't see the problem with 1Password. if it ever caused problems, couldn't i just disable the plugin and move on? help me understand how it could harm me potentially . . . down the road. TIA.

and yes, i was screwed by the APE hack. but 1Password doesn't appear to be at the system level like APE was.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 10:50 AM

So far so good ...

The new tabs scheme will take a bit of getting used to, but I understand why they did it ...

Still doesn't work with my bank's site (but then, neither did v03 -- I hear this is the site's coding more than that of Safari, but still ...) so I guess I still have to open FF to access that, which is a shame ...

Other than that, *much* speedier! Nice =)
Posted by: zwei

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 11:28 AM

1Password is an Input Manager ...it injects code into Cocoa applications. This can potentially be used for evil purposes so Apple has started coaxing developers away from using them. In fact, there is talk about Apple killing off Input Managers altogether. This could indeed happen with Snow Leopard. Not sure what the 1P team's backup plan is if this happens ..but they said they had been looking into it.

That being said ...I love my 1Password! wink ...oh, and if you want to enable it in the new Safari all you have to do is change a value in the 1P SupportedBrowsers.plist link-o It works fine.
Posted by: Mike

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 02:19 PM

I'll wait until 1Password is updated also.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 02:19 PM

I'm on it right now and I really like it. I don't use 1Password so no worries for me.

This is one feature that I like:

Click for full size
Posted by: zwei

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/24/09 02:21 PM

1Password has been updated. Just enable the option that checks for beta versions. He put out the newest build a couple hours ago.
Posted by: SteveS

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 09:10 AM

Quote:
and yes, i was screwed by the APE hack. but 1Password doesn't appear to be at the system level like APE was.


Basically, what that is saying is that this type of hack isn't as bad as another type of hack. By definition they are still hacks. While I understand the benefit of some of these hacks, relying on them is like walking around with a sign that says "kick me". Yes, you can always uninstall them, provided you're even aware they are hacks in the first place and that they are causing the problems you are experiencing.

What's worse, on other forums, I keep reading about how people are complaining about Safari 4. In each case, it's due to an unsupported hack (not always the same one). While I share their frustration for a bad user experience when something doesn't work, I can't help but think their blame is misplaced. The point here is that when these products stop working (or worse, more important products break because of them), people shouldn't be surprised. I find it irrational that some would hold off installing a major new product because it isn't compatible with a hack they are running. It's reasonable to hold off installing Safari because it's a beta product. But, hold off because of a hack?
Posted by: FSM

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 09:48 AM

i haven't used Safari in years. so the fact that i am holding off on a beta shouldn't be seen as irrational. i am in no hurry. when it's no longer a beta, i still won't be in a hurry. i like Firefox and Flock. Safari is just a curiosity for me.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 12:22 PM

Not a stupid question actually. Is Safari 3 working after installing 4? I figure the Web Kit was changed so I was wondering if that affected Safari 3.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 12:26 PM

It replaces Safari 3 completely ...but has an uninstaller
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 12:35 PM

cool That was awfully considerate of them.

Thx
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 02:14 PM

Top Sites (a ripoff of the feature in Opera, by the way), is nice. But the convoluted method you have to go through to "pin" the sites you want to show up every time is a mess.

Firefox has an extension called FastDial that offers similar capabilities, but allows you to easily customize it, including the preview image. I created custom thumbnails to make it easier to find the sites I have set up (see images below)

Safari Top Sites on the left, Firefox w/FastDial on the right (click image to view larger):

Safari_TopSite.jpg - Firefox_FastDial.jpg
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 02:21 PM

By the way, if you don't like Tabs on the top, you can type the following code into Terminal and they'll move back below the toolbar:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4TabBarIsOnTop -bool FALSE

To put them back on top, just change FALSE to TRUE. Make sure Safari isn't running when you do this.

You can also get your Stop/Reload and your Bookmark buttons back, and put the loading progress bar back behind the URL the way they used to be by entering BOTH of the following into terminal:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool FALSE

followed by:
defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool FALSE

I liked the fact that having the tabs on top got rid of the wasted space of the Window bar (about 20+ pixels height), but I missed being able to double click the empty space in the Tab bar to open a new blank tab, and I was really used to where the tab bar was located. You can see the results of the Terminal commands in my Safari screenshot above.
Posted by: Mike

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 03:41 PM

Quote:
He put out the newest build a couple hours ago.


Man, that was quick! Works just fine with Safari 4 (Beta).
Posted by: FSM

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 05:41 PM

well, Safari 4 beta is quickly emerging as the fastest browser in the world:

http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9595_22-272792.html
Posted by: zwei

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 06:03 PM

I'm loving it. It's been stable for me as well. (knock on wood)

Haven't noticed as much beachballin either.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/25/09 07:48 PM

Quote:
Mac running OS X 10.6


They've got it on a SnowLeopard machine? Or a misprint?
Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 06:39 AM

It's working just fine for me. I dig the new features.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 07:01 AM

Working fine for me too even on old 10.5.6. The history cover flow is amazing and I only miss my reload button. I guess I can learn to command R. The "show top sites" seemed gimmicky but I am now clicking on it all the time. Rearranging, deleting, and pinning permanently is completely simple and obvious.

Safari is also very fast. It seems slow on occasion but it is because it is rendering many pages at a time especially in history cover flow.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 07:11 AM

Originally Posted By: polymerase
I only miss my reload button.
The little widget on the right of the address bar, it's a combo progress wheel, reload, stop loading thingy now.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 07:39 AM

Ah, thanks for that tip there Reboot!
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 07:40 AM

I would like to know how to add more sites to my Top Sites part...
Posted by: zwei

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 07:55 AM

Open up top sites and put it in "edit" mode.

Open up the URL you want to add to it in a different WINDOW

Drag the url of the new window (by it's favicon) into the top sites window.


You'd think a simple + sign would have been a bit easier, eh?
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 08:48 AM

I was going to reply I just have this stupid ant on the end of my address bar but now realize you meant in my address bar on the right.

Nice, thanks. Now the only thing that bugs me is why the "customize toolbar" is in the "View" menu and not in the preferences. Took me five minutes to kill that ant and it wasn't obvious even when I got there. Oh, drag the ant out of my menu bar while that window is open. That's sooo obvious.

MacBook Pro 17 inchers announced. Thin. 0.95 inch. Not a MacBook Air but progress.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 08:52 AM

I think the easier way is the way they have it. You don't do anything but have patience. After a day the top sites has read your mind and they are all in there. Now that they are you can just go to edit and thumbtack the ones you want permanently. Hopefully the ones you never want in there are permanently deleted and never return after you have Xed them.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Introducing Safari 4 - 02/26/09 09:12 AM

The reload button isn't missing, it's at the far right side of the URL/Address input box, as is the stop button.

However, if you want "real" buttons back, as well as the progress bar behind the URL as it used to be in Safari, just type these two commands into the Terminal app:

defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4LoadProgressStyle -bool FALSE
defaults write com.apple.Safari DebugSafari4IncludeToolbarRedesign -bool FALSE