Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge...

Posted by: zwei

Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 02:25 PM

...until the end of June.

link-o

citing that his health issue is more complex than he first thought

stock is crapping itself after hours
Posted by: Mac007

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 02:35 PM

Not good news.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 02:40 PM

No kidding.
http://money.cnn.com/2009/01/14/technology/apple_jobs/?postversion=2009011416

This is especially worrisome:
Quote:
his health-related issues have become "more complex" during the past week.



Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 03:50 PM

I'm wishing him the very best ...but this may be the beginning of that dreaded sea change.

Get well soon Steve
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 04:11 PM

Like I posted in the other thead, I'm betting that Steve is done with Apple. Hopefully that's all there is to it, but it doesn't sound good for his health.

Why pick June? My brother and I were speculating on this and he thinks that this way people get used to him not coming back....when June comes rolling around, he might extend the leave or just quietly leave Apple permanently.
Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 04:33 PM

It indeed does not look good for Jobs. Pancreatic cancer is usually unsurviveable. Jobs appeared to luck out when he was first diagnosed and has lived longer after diagnosis than the vast majority, whose lifespan after diagnosis usually runs to two or three months. It may have caught up with him and as I noted in an earlier post, the "hormone" he has been talking about could well be insulin, a deficiency of which will cause extreme weight loss.

I hope I am wrong; nobody deserves this nasty, aggressive cancer. My sister-in-law had it in 1994, so I got to see the damned thing up close.
Posted by: Mike

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 05:11 PM

Bad news indeed!
Posted by: starmillway

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/14/09 06:46 PM


Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
Why pick June? My brother and I were speculating on this and he thinks that this way people get used to him not coming back....when June comes rolling around, he might extend the leave or just quietly leave Apple permanently.


I had thoughts along those lines too.

Posted by: polymerase

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 05:07 AM

Has there been one scintilla of info from this new health issue that has come from a real doctor? I am prejudiced against people who are vegetarians who in the past hid their cancer for six months and was treating it with a natural diet. He finally took a real doctor's advice.

Now he could be doing the same thing. Who thinks his health issue is more complex? Steve Jobs or some real doctors? It doesn't sound like it. Just one line in a story which says Steve was seen walking out of a real medical center and I would stop worrying that he is actually treating himself with extract of gingko bilboa holistically purified by guru Baba Nutria.

I don't want to add him to my cadaver derby but he is not coming back in June unless I see a report from UCLA Medical Center that says Steve is now on force feed IV drip of cheese burgers and pork chops.


Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 07:26 AM

The whole meat topic is lame. Looking at the photos of him from a year ago he was plump and doing fine. The cancer is what screwed him up. Taking out part of his digestive tract is what screwed him up ...NOT the fact that that he doesn't compete in the friggin annual hotdog eating contest.

I've been cutting back on meat heavily myself. I'd cut it out completely if I didn't enjoy eating trying new things so much. I just really love food, period. Eating less meat is better for you, it's better for the environment, and people just need to learn to accept other opinions.

I absolutely hate sports ...but you don't see me pointing my finger and ridiculing anyone I see pick up a ball? ...maybe I should ....it has more of an impact on me than someone who doesn't eat meat. At least I don't have to pay taxes to support their habit.

..that's all I'm gonna say about it before it turns into a rant from hell.


Posted by: Jim_

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 09:30 AM

I know personally of two people who became anemic due to their lack of eating meat, they are now taking iron supplements and have changed their diet to include occasional meat products. I knew one better than the other and saw her change over a few year period, forgetful, tired, cranky. I mentioned the change to her, I was worried it was Alzheimer's, she went to the university hospital and got checked out, luckily it wasn't Alzheimer's, she just needed a couple of burgers.

It is a tricky thing to get the iron one needs on a vegetarian diet. It can be done but it takes a some real skill in cuisine. Iron from meat products is more readily absorbed than other sources.

If you plan on cutting meat out do some research first is all.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 10:21 AM

It takes education for sure. I'm not saying you can live on lettuce. That's quite obvious. But in Steve Job's case, I can guarantee he has researched the subject. Especially after the Cancer.

I know for sure that I could never go fully vegan ...I like eggs/cheese/ice cream way too much smile

Posted by: FSM

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 11:35 AM

a person responsible enough to go vegetarian will often be a person smart enough to learn how to continue eating a balanced meal. it's not always the case, but the few anecdotes presented here don't change the fact that a person can easily get all the right nutrients and minerals, etc. while not eating meat. while we aren't vegetarian, my wife subscribes to the a vegetarian monthly journal to get recipes and we try eating many through the course of each week.
Posted by: margadagio

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 11:55 AM

Every person I've known who has been a life long vegetarian has become ill in their later years. These are folks who know what they're doing. It's possible as we age the body can't handle the diet anymore.

It's a fallacy that a person can get all the necessary nutrients without eating meat. In fact, that applies to all vitamins and minerals. Our bodies absorb these things from natural foods differently than in pill form. For example, taking Vit C pills is no permanent replacement for the naturally occurring vitamin in fruit. The same thing applies with iron and all the B vitamins. A balanced diet from all the food groups is necessary for proper breakdown and absorption.

The key is balance and moderation in all things.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 12:41 PM

Originally Posted By: FSM
but the few anecdotes presented here don't change the fact that a person can easily get all the right nutrients and minerals, etc. while not eating meat.


They are only anecdotes and one can live a healthy life as a vegetarian. I would disagree that it is easy. It's very hard to get enough iron as well as a slew of other nutrients without eating meat. Our digestive system and metabolism , our liver, our kidneys, everything involved with the metabolizing of nutrients so we can live, all evolved while we were omnivores. We still are omnivores. If you do not eat meat you really need to watch out. One person can get away with it but the next person might have a mutation which causes difficulty in metabolizing iron which comes from vegetable sources. Why is that not a disease? Because most of us eat meat.

It is a smart thing to cut down on meat intake. Americans have made meat intake a serious problem because we inhale it. But it's good for you because you are an omnivore. There is no getting around that. Anything that says different you better see who created the data and see if they got their degree in nutrition of the back of a cereal box.

The people Steve Jobs got to advise him on his diet so he would not require pancreatic cancer surgery early on got their diplomas off a Cheerios box. Luckily he then listened to real doctors and had the surgery. Who knows who he is listening to now. He has a problem gaining weight because of a metabolism imbalance and he continues to be a vegetarian? That, is nuts.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 12:43 PM

Originally Posted By: margadagio
Every person I've known who has been a life long vegetarian has become ill in their later years.These are folks who know what they're doing. It's possible as we age the body can't handle the diet anymore.

Almost everyone I know has become ill in their "later years" ...that's what happens when you age. With all of the pollution, pesticides, antibiotics, and fast food there's no wonder why people are getting sicker younger these days. I really think we are going to see the average age of death drop again. There is so much cancer, diabetes, heart disease, alzheimers, etc. It's affecting EVERYONE these days. Out of all of the family funerals I've gone too ...most would not be considered "old" (unless your definition of old includes 50-something) The fact that every single one of them ate meat must mean they died because meat is unhealthy, right? That's how I take your statement.

Originally Posted By: margadagio
It's a fallacy that a person can get all the necessary nutrients without eating meat.

The human body can indeed function perfectly fine without meat. Try rephrasing your google searches. ...if you search for "Vegetarian Unhealthy" guess what you will find. Search for "meat unhealthy" ...guess what.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 12:54 PM

From what I have been reading he's probably suffering from an insulin related issue. Eating meat will not fix this problem.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 12:57 PM

Pancreatic cancer will do a job on your insulin level, no doubt. I agree with you, zwei--it's not the diet.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 01:14 PM

On the same subject ...have you seen what Pancreatic cancer has done to Patrick Swayze? ...It's not pretty


Posted by: polymerase

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 01:36 PM

Quote:
.if you search for "Vegetarian Unhealthy" guess what you will find. Search for "meat unhealthy" ...guess what.
Quakery is on the internet at ten times the volume as real science. Google Astronomy and then google Astrology ... guess what.

Not saying you are incorrect but there is a terrible amount of fraudulent articles out there that look like science. Don't google vegetarian, search it on a site like quackwatch.com

Jobs could be a rational pragmatic vegetarian. Likely he is. Or he could be an ideological vegetarian. Not good. The fact that he first confronted his cancer with a change in diet while ignoring doctor's advice makes me think he is the latter unfortunately.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 02:44 PM

What've you got 'gainst Quakers, poly? wink
Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 02:47 PM

The doctor's advice probably included the statistic that around 40,000 Americans are diagnosed with pancreatic cancer every year and around 40,000 Americans die of pancreatic cancer every year. He probably thought he had nothing to lose. Fear of death can do strange things to a logical mind.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 03:06 PM

Two million Americans are born every year and two million Americans die each year. Death is one of those inevitables but I know what you mean. Jobs got one of the pancreatic cancers that has a favorable outcome. He has plenty of years left in him if he would listen to his doctors. At first he did not.



Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/15/09 03:55 PM

Originally Posted By: polymerase
He has plenty of years left in him if he would listen to his doctors. At first he did not.

Plenty of years? Maybe yes and maybe no. If he were to ask me (fat chance!), I'd tell him to listen to his doctors too. But as I know from personal experience, sometimes the doctors can offer nothing but platitudes and more testing. The "June" thing sounds to me like someone gave him six months (count from January), a nice round figure. I could, of course, be absolutely and totally off track here, but the whole illness thing has been so shrouded in mystery, it makes me suspicious.

Ah, well, none of our damned business, really.
Posted by: padmavyuha

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 01:58 AM

...and it's never as simple as 'iron deficiency, take more iron'. All the nutrients we take up in our diet require interaction with other nutrients for best effect - so for example, your body won't take up iron usefully unless you have enough calcium in your diet, and vice versa. A balanced diet is a diverse diet within each day, not good stuff one week, crap food the next. I know a cello teacher who is a 3rd generation vegan and she's one of the healthiest people I know, but she does pay attention to mixing it up well at meal times. Being vegan made me ill, so I stopped it.
Posted by: polymerase

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 05:30 AM

I didn't really explain much by my two million born per year, two million die per year but it conveys as much information as 4,000 diagnosed per year 4,000 die per year. On average those born here then go on to live on average 75 or so years and those diagnosed with pancreatic on average are dead in five years.

But that is a terrible use of statistics. I love statistics and hate to see them abused but everyone does it from politicians to economists. So I go to my favorite scientist and reread The Median Isn't the Message by Stephen Jay Gould. Anyone diagnosed with pancreatic or any other type of cancer should read it. Steve Jobs got pancreatic cancer a few years ago and the average life expectancy after diagnosis is five years so he should be dead soon. But that could not be further from the truth for someone like him who has access to the best care in the world. Half of those diagnosed live longer than five years and Steve just needs to figure out how to be in that group. He should listen to his cancer specialists carefully, not to quacks and he could do as well as Stephen Jay Gould did. He got a mesothelioma which had an average life expectancy after surgery of eight months. He lived twenty years more, which was really what statistics showed Gould might very well happen once he analyzed the data properly. Gould would likely have said he did not beat the odds nor was it a miracle because he understood the statistics.

Most cancers are no longer death sentences. Neither are the median or the mean. The Stephen Jay Gould article explains that last sentence.

Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 07:59 AM

While I agree that the 40,000 diagnosed / 40,000 die of pancreatic cancer is statistically meaningless, it must be stressed that pancreatic cancer is a killer and the average life expectancy is not five years, it is more like three to six MONTHS. This, number, of course, does not pertain to the rare and more curable form that Jobs had. The fact that roughly the same number of people are dying of the disease as has been diagnosed does indicate that the disease is killing most people who are diagnosed with it, otherwise far fewer than 40,000 people would be dying of pancreatic cancer rather than heart disease, say, or in traffic accidents. The only question is, how long do they have to live after diagnosis; the answer, as stated is less than a year, far less.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 09:32 AM

Look folks - this doesn't look good- Steve has pancreatic cancer but he has the more survivable form- the islet cell tumor version vs the duct version which is more fatal. I'm trying to find out what the survival rate is for the latter. The former is 5% survival rate after 5 years and the average survival time is 3 to 6 months, BUT Steve does NOT have that type.

The survival for the Islet form depends upon whether the form is benign or malignant and if the latter HOW far has it spread. There are so many unknowns that have NOT been disclosed in Job's case... 1. was it malignant or not ?, and 2. if so had it spread and 3. if so how far ?
I think (If we accept their word it's benign and has screwed up his hormones), BUT we don't know that for sure.

"Islet cell cancers overall have a more favorable prognosis than cancers of the exocrine pancreas, and the median survival from diagnosis is three and a half years. This is mainly due to their slow-growing nature. Insulinomas have a five-year survival rate of 80% and gastrinomas have 65%. When malignant, islet cell cancers do not generally respond well to chemotherapy, and the treatment is mainly palliative. Most patients with metastasis do not survive five years. "

Islet Cell Tumors

SO do we have any more details in order to predict Steve's survivability ?
Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 12:18 PM

I would say that it isn't really up to us to be predicting such things. None of us (that I'm aware of) are medical professionals. And since I'm as guilty of speculating as anyone else, I'll stop it here and now.
Posted by: zwei

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 02:22 PM

http://www.macdailynews.com/index.php/we...ver_transplant/

I feel so sorry for Steve.
Posted by: margadagio

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 02:51 PM

He's being hounded like a movie celebrity or rock star. The media stinks. mad
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 07:32 PM

In a drunken moment, I've already ranted about the media.
24 hour news will be the downfall of our civilization.
The media now survives on speculation, not facts.

And yes, I feel for Steve also.
Leave him be.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 07:47 PM

John, I know... I did some digging in the hopes of finding some "GOOD" news.

Hang in there Steve !! eek
Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/16/09 08:27 PM

David, I understand and I hope there is good news to be had.
Posted by: DLC

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/18/09 06:43 AM

I'm not so sure, read yesterday he's considering a liver transplant... not a big deal for most people his age, except in his case it could indicate the pancreatic cancer has spread. BUT we don't know any details.

I pray that's NOT the case. eek
Posted by: John_Lasruk

Re: Jobs just put Tim Cook in charge... - 01/18/09 11:07 AM

I'm not going to comment on Jobs' illness because I said I wouldn't, but into the liver was exactly how my sister-in-law's pancreatic cancer spread and how it spreads for the most part. The pancreas and liver are next to each other.