Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail

Posted by: Trog

Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 07:42 AM

I sent the announcement from Spymac about their upgraded mail system to Stan/Larry but got no response, maybe they feel that Spymac is competition, I'm not sure. If you haven't been following what's going on at Spymac these days you should really check it out as a complete alternative to .Mac.<br><br>Earlier in the week Google announced "Gmail" beta which is a 1GB webmail service. It has received a lot of praise, but also a load of criticism (see below). Since it gives you more disk space for free than Yahoo will give you for $60/year its a pretty big deal, because it raises the bar so much higher for Yahoo, MS and others.<br><br>However, Spymac has also upgraded their free mail system to 1GB, but because of the way their system works I think it provides a significant advantage over any mail system out there, including Google. The biggest advantage is that Spymac mail offers POP3 access. That means no ads and you can use Mail.app or any mail system you desire with filters, your address book, etc. That is huge, IMO.<br><br>The only downside to Spymac's offering is their name. Google is an industry standard, known for their quaility and consistency. The question about Spymac is can it/will it survive and will it remain free? Also can they handle all the traffic and keep from having large periods of inaccessibility? (although it could be said that even Apple's .Mac pay-for-play service hasn't been a bastion of success in this area)<br><br>Another reason why I think Spymac is a better option than Google are privacy concerns. Both companies collect data about you in the form of cookies to push advertisements on their web banners, but because Google runs the world's largest search engine also, this raises more concerns than just ads. In this article at The Register they discuss how the personal data from your account could end up in the entire "search cookie". From the article:<br><br>"But it isn't so much Google searching email that has caused the anxiety from privacy watchdogs this week, as the company's confused retention policy. What will Google do with that data? Google's cookie is an index for all your searches until 2038, and sits alongside an Orkut cookie that tells Google - or friendly law enforcement officials or marketeers - exactly who you are. Google's Gmail will complete the picture, indexing private electronic discourse under the main Google search cookie. <br><br>Rather than allay these fears, Google's accident-prone co-founder Larry Page refused to rule out a future policy of 'joining the dots'. A simple "No, Never" would have prevented much of the damage. But asked if Google planned to link Gmail users to their Web search queries, Page replied: <br><br>"It might be really useful for us to know that information. I'd hate to rule anything like that out."<br><br>Google's Gmail privacy policy points out that your email will be retained even after you close your account." <br><br>I know I'm a bit paranoid about privacy, but that just doesn't sound so hot. I'm sure I'll sign up for one of these Gmail accounts, but it may just take the place of my rarely used hotmail account as a spam repository.<br>
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 07:46 AM

unless you have something to hide... who cares about privacy... if you do, you need to use strong encryption anyway<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 07:49 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>unless you have something to hide... who cares about privacy...<p><hr></blockquote><p>I do.<br><br>
Posted by: JohnR

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 07:52 AM

Yes, I like my privacy. And no, I don't have anything to hide.<br><br>
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:03 AM

it's not logical to me, but i respect your opinion.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:05 AM

Yeah. I mentioned SpyMac a while back and got a quick email from Larry about it.<br><br>Spymac is about 10 levels higher than MM, MC and any other Mac web site at the moment - as far as what they offer, anyway.<br><br>The forum software (which they wrote themselves, if I recall) is far and away the very best available. It has every feature you could need in a forum. The "Gallery" is soooooo cool. Then they go and add free web sites, free blog sites, free email, free auctions.... did I miss anything?<br><br>Heck, they even offer domain hosting. Here's a sample of their middle of the road package:<br><br>12 months: $17 per month ($204 every 12 months)<br>This Package Includes<br><br>• 2 free .com, .net or .org domains<br>• Free domain transfers<br>• 1000 MB of storage space<br>• 40 GB of transfer bandwidth<br>• FTP access<br>• Unlimited e-mail aliases<br>• 100 POP3 and IMAP e-mail accounts with 50 MB of space each<br>• Unlimited e-mail forwarding<br>• 50 auto-responders<br>• Catch-all e-mail address<br>• Unlimited sub-domains<br>• Two MySQL databases<br>• PHP3 and PHP4 support with GD, ImageMagick and FreeType<br>• Perl support (free CGI-Bin)<br>• Server Side Includes (SSI)<br>• Mod_Rewrite<br>• Password protected directories<br>• Daily backups of your website<br>• Access to log files<br>• Webalizer stats<br>• Customizable error pages<br>• Easy to use control panel for account management<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:07 AM

wow, that's hard to beat!<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:28 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Then they go and add free web sites, free blog sites, free email, free auctions.... did I miss anything?<p><hr></blockquote><p>Not much. The website is run from what they call a "spydisk" which is a 100MB virtual disk, like the iDisk.... but free and it has FTP support, which is much faster than Webdav.<br><br>I don't need their hosting function right now, but I'll definitely give it a shot in the future if those prices hold up.<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: iraszl

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:31 AM

once they add iPhoto, iSync and Safari bookmark support I'll sign up.<br><br>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:42 AM

I'm confused a bit here ...<br><br>Why would one need 1GB of e-mail space? Does this mean that I cold theoretically send you a 50MB e-mail attachment or something? Or is it so you'd never have to clean-out your e-mail boxes? Just curious =)<br><br>Also, assuming that "web space" is equivalent to .Mac's iDisk space, what is "Picture Space"? Is it essentially just more storage? And how would that differ from "Web space"? Or are they essentially offering 350MB of general storage?<br><br>Personally, if I had the choice, I'd want the 1GB of space to be for storage, not for e-mail - I mean, 1GB of HD space is 1GB, what does it matter to them what function it's used with?<br><br>=)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:51 AM

Good questions, definitely worth checking out.<br><br>As far as 1GB email space, it does seem like overkill. On the other hand, I have 500MB of email on my desktop computer right now. It is the accumulation of about 10 years of email. Sure I could trash it, but why? Disk space is cheap now and believe it or not, every once in a while I search for something in a message that is a couple years old. So, if someone is offering a 1 GB of free space, why ask why? <br><br>A few people have brought up the same issue about the disk storage vs. the email storage. Everyone agrees that it would be better to have the disk storage rather than the email storage. So far I haven't seen a reply from an admin at Spymac. Perhaps the increased bandwidth usage of file transfer vs. email makes this too difficult, I don't know.<br><br>As far as attachments go, I believe 6MB is the current outgoing limit through Spymac's SMTP. That's still pretty big if you ask me.<br><br>Oh, and the picture storage is separate from the Spydisk (although you can store photos there too). They have a public "gallery" where you can upload pictures and people can comment on them, rate them, whatever. In addition you can upload pictures privately also, so only people who you want to see them can access them. Very cool, but at this point in time this function is still limited and full of bugs. Hopefully it will get ironed out soon, because 250 MB of picture space is pretty decent.<br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Trog on 04/04/04 11:55 AM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 08:53 AM

The "picture space" is space in the "gallery" which is separate from your storage space. I agree that the 1gb of email space is somewhat of a waste, but it does mean that you basically never have to throw away any email.<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 09:11 AM

Thanks for the replies, guys!<br><br>That's kinda what I thought about the e-mail space - I get the sense that they can offer such a large size only with the expectation that most will never get close to using it all ;-)<br><br>The Gallery sounds interesting - can you just use it for picture storage as well? (i.e. could you use it as a server for using images in posts here, for example?<br><br>I just went over there for a quick look-see ... could they be more graphics-intensive? The message boards are just silly ;-)<br><br>Thanks again for the info!<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by:

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 09:23 AM

How long do you think Spymac will last? You know that bubble's gonna burst. I still haven't seen one ad on that site. The only signs of money being made are the auctions and hosting. And who knows how that's going.<br><br>I would imagine Gmail would be lean and mean, unlike Spymac's ridiculously cluttered interface. Think how fast Google's sites load... now compare that to white push buttons all over the screen, shout boxes, and the other adolescent crap they've got clogging up their pages.<br><br>And if you're worried about privacy.... who says you have privacy now?<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 09:28 AM

The Gallery could definitely be used for storage, although not as conveniently as Spydisk/idisk. You can only access it by webpage so you would have to go to the picture and copy the link to hotlink it over here. Also it appears that uploading only works through their web interface rather than FTP (so no imagewell).<br><br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The message boards are just silly<p><hr></blockquote><p>Aren't they all? <br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 09:35 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>How long do you think Spymac will last? <p><hr></blockquote><p>That's the big question. Usually things that seem too good to be true... <br>There is one medium size banner at the top of every page, even your own free website and blog. It can be removed for $20/year or by purchasing a hosting plan.<br><br><br><br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I would imagine Gmail would be lean and mean, unlike Spymac's ridiculously cluttered interface.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Didn't you see the part about POP3 access? <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>And if you're worried about privacy.... who says you have privacy now?<p><hr></blockquote><p>All the more reason to be concernced then? What you say is true, but there is a difference (IMHO) about freely giving up information (e.g. here at MM) and someone taking it behind my back. Not to mention that in most circumstance I can choose what information about myself is distrubuted. Like I said, I'll probably sign up for a Google email, I just don't like that business practice.<P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by Trog on 04/04/04 12:47 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: six_of_one

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 09:36 AM

Aren't they all?<br><br>And god bless'm for being so =)<br><br>***matt<br><br>Turn up the signal, wipe out the noise ...
Posted by:

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 09:54 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>There is one medium size banner at the top of every page...<p><hr></blockquote><p>Sure there are banners... for Spymac! I haven't seen any outside advertisers on that site yet. Apple tried the free thing with a helluva lot less space to offer than Spymac... and a wealthy company like Apple couldn't keep it going for free. What chance does Spymac have? I'm not trying to be a pessimist, nor do I wish the service to fail. I just don't think we should be jerking each other in ecstasy over the free services they offer. Maybe dropping .Mac for Spymac wouldn't be such a smart idea just yet. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Didn't you see the part about POP3 access? <p><hr></blockquote><p>Yes, but I think one of the driving forces behind Gmail is the portability, like all other web-based email services. The site has minimal graphics and can load quickly on any connection. Not so with Spymac... too many bells and whistles.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>...but there is a difference (IMHO) about freely giving up information (e.g. here at MM) and someone taking it behind my back.<p><hr></blockquote><p>But Gmail isn't doing anything behind your back. They've made it known that ads are placed in emails based on the content of the message. Don't like it, don't use it. Just don't kid yourself into thinking you've got 100% privacy now. (And let us not flatter ourselves into thinking our emails are that interesting.)<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:08 AM

I completely agree with you that Spymac is going to have a hard time generating the revenue to stay afloat. Thats particularly why I think it is good to spread the word about it. Perhaps more people will sign up for their hosting services. <br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>But Gmail isn't doing anything behind your back. They've made it known that ads are placed in emails based on the content of the message.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Did you even read the bit from the Register that I posted?? Its not even about placing ads in emails based on the content of the message that has people worried.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Don't like it, don't use it.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Mmmm. Yes, I know, and don't complain about it here either I guess.<br><br>
Posted by: squareman

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:12 AM

Does the SpyMac mail have a webmail interface for when one is travelling?<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:25 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Thats particularly why I think it is good to spread the word about it. Perhaps more people will sign up for their hosting services.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Indeed. Although I think a toned-downed interface would suit the masses more. By masses, I mean the non-Mac fan boys that just want free email and don't care about showing off how many Powerbooks mom and dad bought them for their dorm room.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Did you even read the bit from the Register that I posted??<p><hr></blockquote><p>Yep, and I don't see how any of those concerns aren't a problem already.<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Yes, I know, and don't complain about it here either I guess.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Complaining here is fine. You know I love to do it!<br><br>I signed up with Spymac when the 3.0 dealie came out. I tried it, kicked the tires, and didn't like it. So I don't use it. I occasionally stop in to check out desktop pictures and what not. But I would never use it for email. Just having "spymac" in the address is a little goofy for me. The whole package is just too juvenile to be taken seriously.<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:26 AM

Yes, that's the default option. Sam's complaint (and its true) is that the webmail will be slow compared to Google.<br><br>Everything, including the uploading of files to the spydisk or whatever, will be accessible from the user's control panel page via the web.<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:32 AM

Fair enough about the juvenile nature, some of it is sort of silly looking.<br><br>I don't really know how these cookies will work, but my interpretation of the the Register article is that it may be possible for spammers and/or law enforcement to get your personal information (name, address, email address, maybe more) combined with your web surfing habits via the Google search engine. That is most definitely not something that exists right now.<br><br>
Posted by: Lori

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:40 AM

yes<br><br><br>My Stuff
Posted by:

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 10:51 AM

Can't your IP address be sniffed when you surf the web anyway? And I'm sure that can be traced back to you, yes? So what's the big deal? Heck I know the IP address of everyone who loads a thread containing one of my stupid sig pics.<br><br>How interesting are your surfing habits to law enforcement? Unless you search sites about building bombs, why would they care what you're doing? I think you and some of these others who are concerned with privacy are flattering yourselves a little too much.<br><br>And so far, spammers haven't had much trouble getting a hold of personal info anyway. <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 11:09 AM

No, Fastmail is better. Customizable, super fast and they have addresses with "Mac" in them.<br><br><br><br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 03:12 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>The site has minimal graphics and can load quickly on any connection. Not so with Spymac... too many bells and whistles.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p>It loads pretty quick for me. You know you can turn off that whole sidebar on the left too.<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 03:13 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Does the SpyMac mail have a webmail interface for when one is travelling?<p><hr></blockquote><p>SpyMac has had web mail for a couple years now... so yes, you can use it via the web or POP email.<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 03:15 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Sam's complaint (and its true) is that the webmail will be slow compared to Google.<p><hr></blockquote><p>How do you know that? Google's service doesn't even exist yet to test. I use the SpyMac mail and it's MUCH faster that Apple's web mail, and about the same as Yahoo's web-based mail service.<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 03:18 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I think you and some of these others who are concerned with privacy are flattering yourselves a little too much.<br><p><hr></blockquote><p>I agree. I think people go overboard a bit with that. <br><br>I get a kick out of people who refuse to buy over the internet because they're concerned about privacy and security - and yet they're perfectly willing to hand their credit card and drivers license over to some pimple-faced college kid in a restaurant who disappears with them in the back for 5 minutes. I can just imagine what someone could do with that information in 5 minutes!<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by:

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 03:26 PM

Well, Apple's webmail is no speed champ... when it works. But I'd venture to guess that dialup users squirm in agony with Spymac. Hell, a slow DSL at my old job while checking Spymac was painful.<br><br>I make my assumptions about what Gmail will be like based on their current offerings. Every site they've ever made has been a lean, mean sex machine.<br><br>
Posted by:

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/04/04 03:28 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>I get a kick out of people who refuse to buy over the internet because they're concerned about privacy and security - and yet they're perfectly willing to hand their credit card and drivers license over to some pimple-faced college kid in a restaurant who disappears with them in the back for 5 minutes. I can just imagine what someone could do with that information in 5 minutes.<p><hr></blockquote><p>HAHA! Great point!<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 07:42 AM

It was officially released today. Spymac is the first service to offer 1GB email. They have also bumped up the attachment size to 10MB and are attempting to make it larger (but they need to remove a bug in the database software first).<br><br><br><br>
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 07:47 AM

Actually, we had something happen to us in a restaurant involving a credit card..<br><br>They brought out the bill, we gave the credit card for payment, then I signed the slip and left it on the table...Then, we left the slip on the table and departed...<br><br>When we got the Amex bill a few weeks later, we discovered the meal had been charged to the card twice. Now we always make sure we hand that slip to a waiter/waitress...<br><br>[color:red]You slap my back, I'll slap yours!</font color=red>
Posted by: sean

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 09:17 AM

if i were to drop my mac.com email and account, i would likely go with the google option since they are more "proven" and more likely to have staying power. there is nothing i use my mac.com account that i would worry about privacy concerns for. i also doubt that privacy violations will every mean that a person is viewing your email; rather, they will have computers scan emails to better provide ads. big deal. i am more concerned with my university or ISP viewing my emails than what a computer might find in my secondary email account for most things related to the internet.<br><br>spymac is a goofy name if you want to do anything semi serious with your email address. <br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat’l Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: DaddyMac

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 09:20 AM

spymac is a goofy name if you want to do anything semi serious with your email address<br><br>Yes, and by all means the name 'Google' gives you a crapload of credibility...<br><br>Well, no less than 'Yahoo' I guess. <br><br>[color:red]You slap my back, I'll slap yours!</font color=red>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 09:51 AM

I agree... having an email address containing Hotmail, Google, Yahoo, Excite, mac.com, msn.com or anything other than your own company or personal web site name is kind of amateur and lowers the credibility anyway... so a Spymac one is no different, IMO.<br><br>It's really a question of personal use vs. business use. All of the options are perfectly acceptable for "personal use" but I wouldn't use any of them for business.<br><br><br> My uptime is longer than yours, therefore my e-penis is longer.
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 09:57 AM

Yeah, Sean, you would then lose ALL credibility with your students, just like you've lost all credibility here. <br><br>
Posted by: sean

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 09:57 AM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Yes, and by all means the name 'Google' gives you a crapload of credibility...<p><hr></blockquote><p>true, those are silly names, but at least google and yahoo are web-based standards whether the names are goofy or not. but SPY (being associated with a spy is neat only if you work for the CIA or FBI) Mac (we already know the problems with being a mac user) is really just downright silly and who really wants to be associated with an organization whose namesake is that they spy on macs? <br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat’l Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: sean

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 10:00 AM

i actually use(d) my university account for my students, family and friends. actually, i have registered domain names for my classes (e.g., ed205.com) for my students and they can just email me using that -- sean at ed205.com. it's easier that way, plus i don't have to use mail filters and ask my students to place their course number in the subject line any more. <br><br>----<br>"even if we get bin Laden or Zawahiri now, it is 2 years 2 late. Al Qaeda is a very different org now. It has had time to adapt. The administration should have finished this job." Leverett, former Bush Nat’l Security Cncl staff specialist.
Posted by: Trog

Re: Why Spymac mail is better than Google Gmail - 04/05/04 10:07 AM

That's a good idea, I've done the same sort of thing. I also registered a temporary dyndns domain for a webpage that is short and fairly easy to remember (for example, yours might be: http://ed.homeip.net). The dyndns is also free, which is nice.<br><br>