Linux on Mac

Posted by: papabill

Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 07:31 AM

Is anyone here using Linux on their Mac Power Macintosh G3?
Posted by: trey

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 07:50 AM

I've run Yellow Dog years ago, but it was a real pain to get running on a B&W G3. I *think* there's a PPC distro for Ubuntu, but you might have quite a time getting it running on those dinosaurs you've got there. :-)
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 08:23 AM

Well, it seems that NOTHING wants to run on these machines. I hate to say this, but even the old PC 386 and 486 machines will still run. There is still software out there. Slow? Yes, very, but what the will do, they do well.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving up on my T-Rex (minitower G3-266) and my Raptor (iMac G3-333). I still have uses for them. I'm just gonna hunt harder for something that will work with them. But it does seem odd that there is so little available, even in archives.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 08:33 AM

T-Rex and Raptor. grin

I check into a Linux distro for you later, got to run.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 09:51 AM

Well, you could install OS 9 on the T-rex, and I'm sure it would run fine and dandy. But you want to install some more recent OS. OK.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 10:13 AM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
T-Rex and Raptor. grin I check into a Linux distro for you later, got to run.


I've already downloaded Debian 5.06 for the PowerPC(I was told it would do well), but cannot figure out how to install it. No floppy, and the CDs themselves do not boot
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 10:17 AM

Originally Posted By: yoyo52
Well, you could install OS 9 on the T-rex, and I'm sure it would run fine and dandy. But you want to install some more recent OS. OK.


Yeah, I would like to, but if I have to fun OS 9, I will. It's not critical that I have the MOST updated, but it'd be nice. All I want to do is keep inventory records of all my misc computer parts and pieces (hundreds of them) in the "shop" out back. I guess I could do the same thing with index cards and a #2 Eberhardt Faber. I'd also like to be able to communicate with my PCs in the house.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 12:01 PM

You have 10.2.8 up and running on that, right? Can you score a copy of AppleWorks 6? It has all you would need to create a database and spreadsheet and works quite well - even in 10.6.4. It's old and now unsupported, but it still works quite well.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 12:20 PM

I'm gonna have to look around real hard for that one, but I kinda doubt it.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 01:31 PM

I have version 6.2.9 on my Mac. I think that it is self-contained in its own folder, so a simple drag and drop into your Applications folder should give you a fully working copy. Maybe someone can confirm that for us.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 03:36 PM

Originally Posted By: papabill
I've already downloaded Debian 5.06 for the PowerPC(I was told it would do well), but cannot figure out how to install it. No floppy, and the CDs themselves do not boot
The first problem is you need to boot from something to install it.

How did you burn the CD? What format was the image? Can you give me a link to the d/l site?

Unless you're doing an internet install, it will be 8 CD's or one DVD.

If it was an ISO you should use Disk Utility to burn it.

Maybe this will help?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 03:41 PM

Don't open the iso in the finder BTW, it may corrupt it. Drag the iso to the Disk Utility window. If you have opened it re-download it.

Misc links.

http://www.debian.org/releases/stable/debian-installer/

http://forums.debian.net/viewtopic.php?t=20481
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 04:16 PM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
How did you burn the CD? What format was the image? Can you give me a link to the d/l site? Unless you're doing an internet install, it will be 8 CD's or one DVD. If it was an ISO you should use Disk Utility to burn it. Maybe this will help?


These are the ones I got: http://cdimage.debian.org/debian-cd/5.0.6/powerpc/iso-cd/

I burned them with MagicISO, and the Mac has absolutely no problem reading them.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 07:10 PM

Otherwise... AW has been selling on Ebay for an average of $20.00.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/02/10 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: papabill
I burned them with MagicISO, and the Mac has absolutely no problem reading them.
Did the same for me. MagicISO didn't work, and neither did using Disk Utility. They show up on the Mac but don't boot it. It may be a bad build.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 05:22 AM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
Did the same for me. MagicISO didn't work, and neither did using Disk Utility. They show up on the Mac but don't boot it. It may be a bad build.


Hmmm, is there an ISO burner for Mac that will run on this thing?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 05:44 AM

Disk Utility burns bootable ISO files just fine. I have burned Windows ISO files on OS X and they boot a PC. My guess is something is wrong with the ISO.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 09:30 AM

I have 10.3 running on my old iMac in the basement.

But if you do figure out how to get Linux installed, let me know. I wouldn't mind playing around with it.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 09:34 AM

Originally Posted By: papabill
Hmmm, is there an ISO burner for Mac that will run on this thing?


Hmmmm, come to think of it, I don't have a Mac that has a burner in it anyway frown
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 11:54 AM



I went ahead and downloaded the first one from here, but it does the same thing. With no way to boot it, doesn't look like I'm even going to get the chance to try linux on this thing.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 12:04 PM

Well, when I get home I can download it and burn it to a disc and send it your way if you wanted.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 01:05 PM

Originally Posted By: papabill


I went ahead and downloaded the first one from here, but it does the same thing. With no way to boot it, doesn't look like I'm even going to get the chance to try linux on this thing.

From what I read there may be some files that need to be on the top level of the HD on some older PPC machines. I'll try again tonight, I want to put a different HD in, don't want to lose what's on this one.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 04:18 PM

I may try this when I get some free time. The beige G3 is a pain to install and boot Linux from. The more I read the more I find that the Open Firmware is buggy. Maybe that explains why I've seen so many drop to Open Firmware at startup.

Like was suggested before, try to find old AGP, G4 or iMac, you'll have a much better MAc experience than what you're trying to cobble together with that beige G3. They are not Old World, they are New World PPC ROM and have many more options to boot from a Linux install and installation CD.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 04:32 PM

Agreed.. you might as well be resurrecting a TRS-80.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 05:18 PM

I took down the beige and fired up a G4 tower. It booted straight from the small CD and I began the debian install over the internet. Total GUI. Too easy.

That beige is too much work to install Linux on papabill. The floppy doesn't work and there is a bad RAM slot, and I know your funds are limited but your iMac, or for $50 a G4 AGP tower would be much more useful in the long run for both Linux and OS X. (Make sure it's an AGP G4 and not a PCI.) You'll be fighting that beige the whole way, and you'll be fighting it on your own. Sorry but I wipe my hands of Linux on the beige.

Good luck if you want to continue, but to compare, installing Linux on the beige is like walking through dense forest across a continent on a moonless night to get to your destination, and the New World machines are a jet with auto pilot and easy access to a climate controlled terminal to take off and land from.

I'll let you know how it finishes up when we land. grin

Edit - No need to burn 8 CD's with the net install either, and it seems it only downloads what it needs for your machine.

Thanks for the kick start though papabill, I have never installed Linux. Used and played with it but never installed it.

Edit #2 - Not a GUI install, my bad, but an easy to navigate and simple installer. Tab, arrow, Enter etc.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 06:32 PM

Originally Posted By: NucleusG4
Agreed.. you might as well be resurrecting a TRS-80.


Hey, I've been into TRS-80 since the early '80s. They are my machine!! They are a case of doing something very well, just nothing is compatable with them.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 06:43 PM

77% installed, I'll check back.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 07:14 PM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
...I know your funds are limited but your iMac, or for $50 a G4 AGP tower would be much more useful in the long run for both Linux and OS X.


Unfortunately, the $50 for the machine and over $50 for shipping puts it too far out of my range.

I'm just gonna have to find a nice home for this one, I guess.

Thanks
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/03/10 08:23 PM

2:45 later and I'm running from Epiphany browser on my G4 Linux machine. 533 Mhz G4 AGP.

Need a video driver, stuck at 800x600.

BTW, keyboard response in a browser has never been this good on a PPC since OS 9.

I've forgot how much OS X resembles this GUI, and verbose mode boot process.

I meant GUI that time, mouse and everything.

I don't know where you are papabill, but if you shop around you can probably get an iMac or G4 tower for $50 or less if you drive to pick it up. IMO for the money, if it keeps you off the streets, see if you can loosen the purse strings this one time?

What aboout your iMac for Linux. Swap roles with the beige?
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 07:12 AM

Originally Posted By: Reboot
... if you shop around you can probably get an iMac or G4 tower for $50. What about your iMac for Linux. Swap roles with the beige?


G4 AGP on it's way. The iMac might just be my Linux machine.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 08:04 AM

Think Linux will run ok on a Bondi blue iMac 333mhz, 288MB ram, 6GB HD, OSX 10.3.9, CD-Rom tray drive?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 08:18 AM

Quote:

G4 AGP on it's way.


Attaboy!!
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 08:19 AM

Originally Posted By: papabill
G4 AGP on it's way. The iMac might just be my Linux machine.
Well praise God, miracles do happen. smile
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 08:22 AM

And the G4 was the start of the side mounted door which makes it super easy to access all components inside. Very easy machine to work on..IMHO.

I had 2 G4s.. the first which was the Yikes board..grrr.. and the first dual.. the dual 450 mhz. LOL
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 09:04 AM

Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
Think Linux will run ok on a Bondi blue iMac 333mhz, 288MB ram, 6GB HD, OSX 10.3.9, CD-Rom tray drive?
Most recent Linux versions will run on any PPC, from the 7100 on up. Getting it on there may be the trick.

I think with your machine the link to the debian installer above will install straight from the CD. Yours is considered a New World PPC. Burn the ISO with Disk Utility, but don't open the ISO and mount it, it may corrupt it. Just drag the ISO to DU on the left, highlight it and burn. You'll need to use the CD installer since the iMac won't do DVD.

There is the small CD I linked to above, you download only one 200M file. It boots from the one small CD and then downloads the rest of the parts over the internet. I think I'm going to download the whole DVD installer though as there are different kinds of installs, web server, print server, etc. I'd like to try different ones to see what the difference is and having it local on disc would be a much faster install than over the internet probably. It takes close to 3 hours on the G4.

In your case, those tray loading drives can be flaky so doing the web install may make it easier on the drive though as it is an 8 CD install.

The G4 that I installed it on above is picky as to the video card. The stock card only does 800x600 from a stock install, the driver has to be modified to go higher. I saw some stuff on the debian forums but haven't tried it yet.

I tried a couple of newer video cards to see if it was the older card but then it just booted to console saying "debian couldn't start xserver." That too can be fixed with a driver mod. I tried but it is pretty involved. When I have the time maybe, I'll probably stick with the stock card, it's a 16M ATI so it should be fine, I just want to get the resolution higher.

So to answer your question, yes. grin
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 09:45 AM

Well, I don't like buying things blind, but maybe I'll not get skunked too badly. This is what it says about it:

Apple Power Mac G4 400mHz AGP Graphics Tower Model: M6921, Order Number: M7825LL/A, Machine ID: PowerMac3,1

Features:

Processor: 400mHz PowerPC 7400 v2.9 (G4)

RAM: 768MB RAM

Hard Drive: 20GB ATA Hard Drive.

Optical Drive: DVR Super Drive.

Other Drives: Iomega Zip 100

Graphics Card: ATI Rage 128 Pro w/16MB VRAM, DVI & VGA Connectors

Modem: 56k Modem.

Audio In: 1 - 3.5-mm analog input jack (16-bit 44.1 kHz sample rate)

Audio Out: 1 - 3.5-mm analog output jack, Built-in speaker (16-bit 44.1 kHz sample rate)

USB Ports: 2 - 12 MBit/s

Firewire Ports: 3 - 400 MBit/s (1 internal) (15W total power)

Ethernet: 10/100BASE-T (RJ-45)

Expansion Slots: 3 - 64-bit 33 MHz PCI, 1 - 2x AGP

Software/OS: Loaded with OS X 10.4 Tiger & factory software, ie: Safari, Mail, iTunes, iLife '08 + iMovie '06 (iMovie '08 not compatible) and Appleworks for Word Processing (No disks included).

DOES NOT INCLUDE: Airport Card, Bluetooth, Keyboard, Mouse or Monitor.

Sounds good, anyway.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 09:52 AM

Hmmm... no boot disks for the Tiger install. I may have one floating around here somewheres....
Posted by: Jim_

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/05/10 11:01 AM

That will work fine. You'll have a much better OS X experience.

Might want to scrape up a little more RAM but that's a decent start. One thing you definitely want to do first before you start installing stuff on it is to install an extra internal drive and clone the system to it using SuperDuper or something in case something breaks, since you don't have any install discs for it. SD does a 1:1 bootable copy of the HD to another HD.

I know I'm pushing it now, but, down the road, the processor can upgraded for around $100 to a faster processor and run Leopard, 10.5.8.
Posted by: EzyriderTX

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/12/10 08:39 AM

I use my old Beige G3 in my garage as an internet radio server. The iTunes radio tuner sill streams fine. Running OS 9.2.2. I also installed Classilla in case I need to browse the web for something. It all works great. Tried to install Linux back in the day and yeah...way too much trouble. OS 9 runs like lightning on it.

I have an old 400 MHz G4 Digital Audio tower in my computer room that I upgraded the processor on years ago to 1.2 GHz. It is running Leopard and is an excellent file server. Heck the kids still use it to surf the web too. You might want to check out G4 processor upgrades. They are relitavley cheap these days. I think you can even get dual 2 GHz processor upgrades for most of the old G4 towers. Between that and 1.5 GB RAM and a couple of 120 GB HDs in it...not a bad little machine for almost nothing.
Posted by: papabill

Re: Linux on Mac - 11/14/10 05:17 PM

I might try to put Linux on my iMac Grape (G3-333) if I can figure out how. I really don't need it, but it's something to play with and learn from.