HEY DLC!

Posted by: Acumowchek

HEY DLC! - 07/27/10 06:45 AM

Wake up, buddy!
IT'S TIME!
Posted by: polymerase

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/27/10 07:08 AM

They announced an hour ago. 12 cores. Hmm, maybe tie two of these together. ;-O
Posted by: Clark

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/27/10 12:46 PM

.
"12 cores. Hmm, maybe tie two of these together"

I see you are thinking out loud. ..And....what?
.
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/27/10 02:01 PM

and with hyper-threading the 12 cores is somewhat equivalent to 24 threads...

wow that should crunch some sequences damm fast !! shocked
grin
Posted by: polymerase

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/27/10 06:52 PM

There is nothing fast about it. This is next gen sequencing and Moore's Law is letting us down. 24 cores, 48 cores, not nearly enough and it is going to get much worse.
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/28/10 06:09 AM

so are you saying the bioinformatics science is progressing faster than the computing/ electronics science ?

wouldn't surprise me... there have been amazing advances recently in molecular biology.

example: J. Craig Venter's microbe creation.
sure it's not exactly creating "life", but it's a big step closer. smile
Posted by: DLC

New MacPros Aug 9th ! - 07/30/10 10:18 AM

Announcement ?

well I'm 90% sure going with a 27" Quad iMac, but I'm waiting until all the details of the MacPro pricing are released. I only buy a new desktop Mac every 6-8 years. Don't want to make a mistake this late in the game. eek
Posted by: polymerase

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 11:15 AM

Yes, genomics data and desktop workstations have been perfectly matched from 1990 to 2008. Memory, CPU and Disk Space always had enough of all three. Whole genome sequencing is making a hash of that and Moore's Law is being left behind.

Illumina Hiseq2000 which is being delivered and plugged in today can create an amount of data in 4.5 days that equals all of the known genome databases published. (1986 to current). The CEO was asked about this and he responded, "that is not our problem." To paraphrase the rest of his response it was that there really is no money in providing software to academia. I just had a company offer me a system for $250,000.00. Just software and a little setup of a few blades.

What Craig is doing is a little off to the side.

I am waiting for Cloud Computing to save the day.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 01:55 PM

Pricing seems to have gone up except for the bottom end one:

New prices:

Click for full size

Current prices:
Click for full size



And you have to be careful if you want the latest processor: (click the link to make it bigger so you can read it)

Click for full size
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 02:00 PM

Wow..the price of the 512GB SSD cards will increase the price a LOT. Yikes!

Click for full size
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 02:17 PM

Yeah, SSDs of any larger size are really expensive, aren't they?
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 02:20 PM

Thanks John, I was curious what the single CPU hex-core was going to cost... probably $3200-3500 !! Yikes is right !!

IF I was making big bucks off the Mac - I'd buy a single CPU MacPro but I only make small chunks of change ($4-6K / semester) using it for teaching.

I think the Quad core iMac is probably overkill for now, BUT in 4-5 years it'll be appreciated as the OS and apps get beefier.

Plus, I might want to start production on Star Wars episode #7 !! laugh
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 02:25 PM

Dave, I think that quad iMac is the most economical choice if you're looking for some serious HP for the desktop. The iMac has morphed into a more pro-sumer machine rather than just a Hanna Housewife email and web browsing machine.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 03:27 PM

With these pricing, I wonder if Apple is creating a gap in there so that they could introduce a new mac for those that want something more upgradable than the iMac but can't afford/need the Mac Pro?
Posted by: Clark

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 04:44 PM

.
Extremely unlikely.
How do you bridge the gap between the iMac and the Mac Pro?
I think a consumer tower would have to have:
Intel Core i7 930 processor
ATI HD 5770 video card.
6GB of memory.
That would probably cost around $2,300 or more considering it's Apple.
That's a gaming machine. How many people would buy it?

You can put less in it but then you are back to the iMac.

If Apple came out with a consumer tower with a Intel Core i7 980X and an ATI HD 5970 video card.
I'd probably buy it.
The price would be over $4,000.
Once again, who is going to buy it besides me?
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 05:58 PM

I think you're spot on... I don't really need more than 4 cores and the top quad 27" iMac has hyperthreading and turbo boost (similar to the Pros).

As for something in between - I'd love it, I'd buy it too - I have doubts too they'd do that, but I'm NOT one to try to predict what Apple (or Jobs) might do. wink
Posted by: polymerase

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 06:18 PM

Originally Posted By: MacBozo
Dave, I think that quad iMac is the most economical choice if you're looking for some serious HP for the desktop. The iMac has morphed into a more pro-sumer machine rather than just a Hanna Housewife email and web browsing machine.


I would completely agree with this. The iMacs have "enough" power. How much is enough? If you know how to turn apps off you are not using and are not doing hyper crazy filtering in Photoshop these things have plenty of power.

I go on about wanting 24 and 48 cores but really it doesn't need to be on one or two boxes in the lab and I terminal into them. But since the software is effed up we have six doing this stuff.

The iMAcs can do most anything in my lab and they are cheap and very slick. They also have a five year lifetime without shifting too many times in the lab.

That is the CPU and the memory. For a lab there cannot be too much hard drive space but we do that by servers. Nothing gets unplugged hen it gets old, it becomes a server.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 07:01 PM

Originally Posted By: Clark
.
Extremely unlikely.
How do you bridge the gap between the iMac and the Mac Pro?
I think a consumer tower would have to have:
Intel Core i7 930 processor
ATI HD 5770 video card.
6GB of memory.
That would probably cost around $2,300 or more considering it's Apple.
That's a gaming machine. How many people would buy it?
I don't have all day to study the latest CPU/GPU technologies like you do, but I'm sure you used all the latest and greatest in your specs. That's not what low end towers from Apple ever were. I'm sure that price could be knocked down to sub $2000, and have decent enough specs to run anything outside of pro apps fast enough. They would also have internal expandability so that the user that is a little more than just internet, but not into production of any kind, would be able to have some expansion so they wouldn't need all sorts of HD's and hubs hanging off of the computer.

I think Apple is missing a market, but I also don't have a Learjet at my disposal so what do I know.
Posted by: Clark

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/30/10 09:56 PM

.
Actually your points are very well taken.
Okay, so put the guts of the iMac into a consumer tower but make it so it is expandable.
That would probably be a computer worth getting for a lot of people.
And it should sell for below two grand.

For example, the new iMacs and Mac Pros will not have USB 3.0.
But USB 3.0 will probably be available with a third party PCI Express card.
The Mac Pro could use it but the iMac can't because it's not expandable.

By the way, if you inherit a fortune, don't buy a Learjet, get a Gulfstream.
.
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 09:38 AM

That's my only downside with iMacs... can't expand or change.
(IF you keep a Mac as long as I do, that is an issue.)

So say in 4-5 years I want a better graphics card- Can't do it!

Maybe they come out with USB 4.0- Firewire 1600 or 3200 or something else very fast on a PCI card - can't use it !

I can add HDs but they're all external... tower allows 4 - just plug em in !

THAT's my only beef with the iMacs - some things you're stuck with. frown
Power wise & RAM they're extremely capable.
Posted by: carp

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 10:29 AM

Quote:
So say in 4-5 years I want a better graphics card- Can't do it!


Maybe I am wrong?
But in 4 to 5 years more than likely that machine won't support a new card either the OS could not be upgraded or some point in the hardware string won't either.

I dunno, anyway it does get to a point that just buying the latest and greatest makes more sense even if it cost more.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 10:38 AM

Dave,
I got the iMac with an upgraded video card so that it will handle a lot. And it only is 512MB.

The new 27" one comes with ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB GDDR5 SDRAM (or you can upgrade the "low end" 27" to that card), which should last you for a long time.

Let me ask you this: do you do a lot of video rendering/editing? I'm not talking iMovie or the occasional Final Cut Express. I mean FCP or whatever.
Do you do heavy photo editing with Photoshop/Aperture?

If you answer no to either of those, you will be fine for years to come. Even if you answer yes, I would bet that you will be fine for at the minimum of 5 years.

Personally, the iMac is the way to go. Even a quad core iMac is a bit overkill for most folks as they don't have/use any apps that take full use of the multiple cores.

This is probably what I would get:

2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
2TB Serial ATA Drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB GDDR5 SDRAM
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide
Magic Mouse

this:

2.8GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i5
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB GDDR5 SDRAM
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide
Magic Mouse

or this:

2.93GHz Quad-Core Intel Core i7
4GB 1333MHz DDR3 SDRAM - 2x2GB
1TB Serial ATA Drive + 256GB Solid State Drive
8x double-layer SuperDrive
ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB GDDR5 SDRAM
Apple Wireless Keyboard (English) & User's Guide
Magic Mouse

Add ram later from somewhere else for cheaper price.
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 01:39 PM

I think I'm doing #3... the i7.... yes minimum RAM cause Apple charges a premium*. I don't need it now, but if I do it'll be cheaper later, just because technology gets cheaper as time progresses.

* actually priced 4 GB 1333 RAM and Apple isn't that far off... they charge $180, MacSales charges $144 to $159 for a similar RAM chip. Yes cheaper, but before Apple charged 35-50% more ! But if I wait 1-2 years, it might be << $100 !!

Mainly I do iMovie, so I'm sure this will be more than adequate.

Thanks for the input John and Steve. smile
I think I'm also going to do the Barkleys Card and pay it off in 11 months... = free loan. I've done this on numerous other items, like TVs from BrandsMart & furniture from Rooms to Go... I am disciplined.
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 02:08 PM

Quote:
Mainly I do iMovie


Just curious, what version?
Posted by: carp

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 02:39 PM

Originally Posted By: Acumowchek
Quote:
Mainly I do iMovie


Just curious, what version?


I have version 6.0.4

I find it okay for my needs, certainly don't need FCP.

Then again once you start on a project in iMovie, then some where along the way you morph a George Lucas type of producer. You then start to want all the power and special effects that iMovie does not have laugh
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 02:51 PM

I always do the 0% interest free thing.

I just did a bunch of digital video with iMovie 8 and it was a snap.
Posted by: carp

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 03:24 PM

8 wow I am still on 6 - LOL

Anyway do you use the Apple templates? be nice if there was a huge selection
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 07/31/10 05:10 PM

Using V 8.0 but need to upgrade... with my old G5 I can't until I get an Intel Mac.
Same with several other programs like Camtasia, I'm really "stuck" in old school with the non-Intel Mac. frown
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/09/10 03:36 AM

And now the pricing is out:

base price for single 6 core: $3,699.00
base price for 8 core: $3,499.00


You can upgrade the 8 core to the 6 core.

Video cards in 8:
ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB
Two ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB [Add $250.00]
ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB [Add $200.00
Posted by: Clark

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/09/10 07:46 AM

.
And $2,499 for the 2.8GHz Quad-core.
.
Posted by: Clark

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/09/10 08:02 AM

.
And I'll either be getting this or the 6-core with this in it:

Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/14/10 06:43 PM

Sorry guys - I've been on vacation since Aug 7th.

So which is more powerful? 4 core i7 with hyperthreading and turboboost or the 4 core Nehalam ? Or are they equivalent? I'd love the 6 core, but I can't justify the cost. I'm pushing it now with $2500. grin
Also how do the 2 video cards compare ? ATI Radeon HD 5770 1GB vs ATI Radeon HD 5750 1GB GDDR5 SDRAM I assume the 5770 is better? ..but by how much ?

Since I'd upgrade the iMac to the i7- the price difference between that and a MacPro with the Educators discount is very close. I'd get $100 on the iMac and $200 on the MacPro.

Any advise is very much appreciated.

EDIT : Did some quick calcs and there's about $235 difference between the i7 iMac and the MacPro.
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/14/10 09:32 PM

MacPro! MacPro! MacPro!
grin
Posted by: Clark

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/14/10 10:22 PM

.
The video cards are closer in performance than I thought they would be.
The 5770 has a bandwidth of 76.8 compared to 73.6 for the 5750
The 5770 has a fillrate of 13.6 compared to 11.2 for the 5750.
If you are doing Photoshop, the 5750 will work just fine.
If you are doing video editing, you may want to consider the 5770.
If you play some games, then you definitely need to consider the 5770.

The Core i7 is a “desktop” cpu.
The Xeon Nehalem is a “server” cpu.

The Mac Pro uses server cpus which is why it is called a workstation computer.
A server cpu uses advanced memory technology that is not only fast but also reliable.
Server cpus use what is called ECC.
ECC allows data that is being read to be checked for errors and when necessary, be corrected on the fly.
ECC allows a computer to operate even if a memory error occurs.
Server cpus are more reliable than desktop cpus.

Take a look at memory prices.
The Xeon Nehalem processors use more expensive memory.
They use memory with ECC which I talked about above.
ECC=Reliability.

For the vast majority of people though, desktop cpus are plenty reliable.

You ask which cpu has more power.
I don’t know, I’d guess that the Core i7 has more power and can be more easily overclocked.
The Core i7 is the processor of choice for gamers.

If you really want to know the power of the cpus and gpus of the iMac and Mac Pro, keep checking Barefeat’s web site.
They will have benchmarks comparing both systems shortly.
MacWorld will probably have some benchtests also.
.
Posted by: DLC

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/15/10 05:57 AM

Thanks Clark, you're a real powerhouse of information.

IF it's ~ even, I may want to go Pro because of expandability.... I like the ease of adding drives and new video cards as I grow, plus 4 years from now I may want a better video card. I'm sure the 5750 is plenty now but who knows what the future holds. Plus as new connectivity technology develops I can add faster Firewire and USB cards, or what ever data exchange tech they develop. I was a little disappointed in the iMacs only 1 FW port. frown

Thanks again - I'll watch for those comparisons.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/15/10 06:26 PM

I remember buying my PowerMac G5 thinking I could upgrade the video card. Silly me....I forget that Apple changes things like that between generations.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: HEY DLC! - 08/16/10 06:10 AM

Yep...silly Apple... they are always upgrading their systems to the, latest state of the art tech. Dammit.
Posted by: DLC

And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 09:18 AM

Many, many thanks to all (esp Clark and John), I've finally made my decision...


and the winna IS . . . .


[drum roll]




the 27" i7 iMac !!

I compared it head to head with the Nehalam 2.8 GHz quad MacPro and each has advantages. But overall I think this iMac gives the most bang for the $. Yeah it's not expandable, but given it's very robust nature - it should easily last me 5+ years - by then I'll be ready for the 72" i20 64-core iMac with 512 Tb of RAM !! .. .. so I can play 3D Tetris ! laugh
I plan to head out to the Mall of GA store in a couple of days (Fri or Sat) and pick this baby up... I can't wait for no stinkin' shipping !! mad
They don't call us Mac Fanatics for no reason ! grin

again thanks to all- you really hepled me immensely.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 09:26 AM

Getting a wireless KB and mouse so you can back away from it far enough to see the whole screen?
Posted by: Clark

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 09:30 AM

.
That will be a very nice machine!
Very powerful with a big, beautiful display.
I've got a friend who desperately wants one but probably can't afford it.
.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 11:35 AM

Nice! Congrats and be sure to post the unboxing photos! laugh
Posted by: Acumowchek

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 01:18 PM

Way to go, David!
You're gonna love it.
Posted by: KateSorensen

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 01:45 PM

Originally Posted By: DLC

They don't call us Mac Fanatics for no reason ! grin

again thanks to all- you really hepled me immensely.


This is great news David. Enjoy!

Kate


.
Posted by: DLC

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 05:09 PM

Thanks to all...

and Yes McB I'm getting the wireless KB and track pad...

I don't want the radiation to fry my brains !! wink




oops . . too late !! laugh
Posted by: carp

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 08:56 PM

Originally Posted By: John Rougeux
Nice! Congrats and be sure to post the unboxing photos! laugh


And the post from the Apple store laugh
Posted by: carp

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/18/10 09:01 PM

Congrats Dave,

Sorta related,
Yesterday I was doing a door inspection at the University of Hawaii Art Building. Walked into 1 room, there was about 30 new iMacs and I found that most if not all professor offices all have Mac Pros.
Posted by: DLC

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/19/10 05:09 AM

Sweet !!

wish they'd do that at CDC !

but then they'd have to lay off 75% of the IT force and unemployment would go up ! grin
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/22/10 09:24 AM

I would love to make my next Mac a 27" iMac. Unfortunately, I need to get another year or two of use out of the 30" LCD screen hooked up to my MacPro to get my money's worth out of it. But I'm done with the MacPro line. It's just too much money for my needs.
Posted by: Clark

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/22/10 09:30 AM

.
"Unfortunately, I need to get another year or two of use out of the 30" LCD screen hooked up to my MacPro"

OMG, you are stuck with that 30 inch monitor for another 2 years?
Say it ain't so.
.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/22/10 09:45 AM

A single tear runs down my face....



Posted by: DLC

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/23/10 06:28 AM

Dear All,

I got a new 27" iMac Saturday (long story) and will be posting the unboxing picts soon. I LOVE the new Mac... but I had a few issues over the weekend so I'm behind a bit. Did a Geekbench2 test and got ~9250 with 4 Gb RAM... when I add RAM I'm sure it'll increase somewhat... the Bare Feats site said 10800 but that was probably with RAM maxed out. Regardless, it's about 550% faster than my old G5 which scores ~1700 ! The dang screen is so big I feel like a kid in the front row of a movie theater !! wink I know - 1 tear ! laugh
More later.
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/23/10 08:04 AM

Congratulations--pictures soon!
Posted by: Clark

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/23/10 08:41 AM

.
Excellent!
.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/23/10 02:08 PM

Envious!!
Posted by: carp

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/23/10 09:43 PM

Super congrats - love to see the picts
Posted by: musicalmarv7

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/25/10 04:36 AM

When will you have pictures of the unboxing ? Enjoy
Posted by: DLC

Re: And the envelope please ! . . . - 08/25/10 09:30 AM

Hope to have them up this weekend.

I've had issues with iPhone, iTunes, and iPhoto transfers. Weird. eek