Wow, if this one is even close...

Posted by: Trog

Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 08:46 AM

PowerPC 970 duals at 2.3GHz this summer? Seems too good to be true as usual... but its fun to think about.<br><br>If even the 1.8 version is truly out this summer I NEED to start saving! ...and maybe begging and stealing.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 08:59 AM

Would be great, but I don't think that will happen. We shall see.<br><br><br>Visit Me At My .Mac Site
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 09:03 AM

Dreamin' is fun <br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: rman

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 02:14 PM

Some dreams do come true.<br><br>
Posted by: Beniitec

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 02:49 PM

If you wish upon a star...<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 03:03 PM

Well, it's already been announced that there will be 2.5GHz PPC 970 servers (not from apple though), so we know the chips will be available.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 05:53 PM

Now this really sucks: [color:blue]discussions avec les membres de MacBidouille, nous avons décidé de ne pas publier les chiffres des benchmarks. Vous en saurez surement plus prochainement. Nous espérons que vous comprendrez notre décision.</font color=blue><br><br>I mean, what good is a rumor site if it's not going to give data that we can drool over??<br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 06:02 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Would be great, but I don't think that will happen. We shall see.<p><hr></blockquote><p>You don't think what will happen, the 2.3 duals or the 1.8 singles... or neither?<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/25/03 09:24 PM

That does suck! But if they publish preliminary benchmarks the results would be lower because of the unrefined test CPU.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/26/03 06:13 AM

Well, switching processors from what they have used for the last 20 years is a big deal, both for Apple and the consumers (providing they are as fast as all the benchmarks say they are). For that reason, I just don't see Apple using a "Developer-related" conference to "Announce" something of that magnitude. <br><br>That's not to say that they won't offer up a "roadmap to 970" to the developers, and it's possible that OSX 10.3 is well on it's way to the 970, but I just can't see them coming out and announcing speed configurations. <br><br>To me, it would make a lot more sense from a marketing standpoint for Apple to announce this at MacWorld in January or another "Consumer-related" event - Perhaps a Seybold even, where Apple's core market is in attendance (professional graphics pros), and who are likely to be the most excited about huge speed increases and the most likely to buy G4/G5/970 towers in bulk.<br><br>My personal guess is that when the 970 actually ships, it will ship in a server configuration first, then the towers. With the 970 being the "Pro" models, and the current G4 line used in the iMacs, PowerBooks and eMacs as the "i" models processor (for $ reasons).<br><br>Of course, these are all guesses on my part. On the other hand, it's been a reeeeeaaaally long time since the G4 towers were updated, even the case design is getting very long in the tooth. Apple knows that they must reach at least the 2ghz barrier soon, and it is apparant to most people that if we rely on Motorolla, that is at least a year or two away - by then Intel/AMD will probably be at 4ghz. <br><br>So who knows, maybe Steve Jobs has a big fat "Oh, there's just one more thing..." for us at WWDC! Let's hope so!!!<br><br><br>Visit Me At My .Mac Site
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/26/03 07:46 AM

Oh yeah, I'm not banking too much on this rumor. Heck, look at how successful the rumors have been of late... NOT!<br><br>But if they do offer a "roadmap to 970" then the machines better not be too far behind, cause the slow sales of powermacs will drop down to NO sales of powermacs when that happens. I bet.<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/26/03 09:49 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Apple knows that they must reach at least the 2ghz barrier soon, and it is apparant to most people that if we rely on Motorolla, that is at least a year or two away - by then Intel/AMD will probably be at 4ghz.<p><hr></blockquote><p>According to Intel's road maps they plan on reaching 5GHz by the end of 2004 or beginning of 2005! <br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/26/03 10:17 PM

But isn't that with the Pentium line? <br><br>By 2004/2005 Apple (with IBM) and AMD will be using next generation 64bit processors that will probably be better than the Pentium 4 at any reasonably close clock speed right?(give or take a gigahertz ) Not to mention efficiency in power consumption as well as whatever benefits there might be to being "64-bit" (I don't know precisely what they are yet in today's desktops). <br><br>Eventually the Pentium 4 is going to have to be replaced with something else that most likely will debut at something "slower" than their last released P4 (Itanic 2?). Then what? This ridiculous Hz race has to end sometime.<br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/26/03 10:38 PM

I don't know whether or not it will be a P4 processor, but it's a completely new core so you can never tell. I doubt that IBM will want to get sucked into the GHz race, so they may be a while until they reach 5GHz...<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/26/03 10:49 PM

Here's more on the Intel Tejas CPU:<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>the Tejas will be introduced at well over 4 GHz, using an 800-MHz front-side bus. Tejas will ship on the then-established 90-nm process, and will also feature an enhanced version of the hyperthreading technology found on the Prescott, new instructions, and an improved level-1 cache. <p><hr></blockquote><p>And:<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Tejas will definitely top 5 GHz over its lifetime, although Intel hasn't officially defined at what frequency Tejas itself will be end-of-lifed. Unsurprisingly, the Tejas is expected to outperform Prescott on a clock-per-clock basis....<p><hr></blockquote><p>So it's supposed to be faster than current P4's at the same speed and it will reach 5GHZ...<br><br>
Posted by: hayesk

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/27/03 09:29 AM

Given that the Pentium 4 is slower than the Pentium 3, we'll probably have to wait and see.<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/27/03 10:25 PM

Yeah, it will be interesting....<br><br>
Posted by: OSXaddict

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/28/03 02:58 AM

I'll be happy when that sucker actually ships. <br><br>[color:blue]Go Kentucky Wildcats!!</font color=blue>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/28/03 03:14 PM

<em>Given that the Pentium 4 is slower than the Pentium 3, we'll probably have to wait and see.</em><br><br>This definitely *was* true, and probably still is true, but comparisons between the two are getting more difficult. First, the P4 has added more cache, better prefetch, hyperthreading, and much more bandwidth than the original northwood models. Prescott will add even more features (both architecturally in addition to another doubling of L2 cache to 1024 KB).<br><br>Another thing to think about - at higher speeds, bandwidth becomes more and more important. So, if a P3 were 50% more effective per clock with it's 133 Mhz memory interface at 1Ghz, it may only be 20% more effective per clock with the same memory bandwidth at 2Ghz (numbers made up by me, but meant to illustrate the idea).<br><br>INTC really seems to be serious about getting some high-performance chips out there. Seems like the A64 is almost doomed from the start. Maybe not the opterons (due to more cache and dual-channel mem), but INTC is cranking up the heat, that's for sure.<br><br>neye<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/31/03 12:00 PM

Just a little more fuel for the fire from SecretMac. I have never even seen this site before, so there is no more reason to believe them over anyone else... but the specs may be a bit more realistic. The one thing I don't quite understand is that way back when (last fall?) IBM first mentioned this chip they said it would "debut at 1.8 GHz". If they debut at 1.8, why would Apple have 1.4 and 1.6 versions? Ohhh.. rumors. I'm just going to keep dreamin' I'll have one this fall.<br><br>here's the text:<br><br>One of our sources told us that the new PowerMacs with a PPC 970 processor will be announced at WWDC with Panther, as expected. They will ship later in the summer. Hopefully, they will be available for Create (formerly MacWorld New York). <br> <br> The specs seem to be the following : <br> Processor : single 1.4 ghz, single 1.6 ghz and dual 1.8 ghz <br> Drives : Combo (1.4ghz), DVD-R (1.6 ghz) and DVD-R (dual) <br> HD : ATA 133 interface <br> Expansion : PCI-X <br> ports : Firewire 800 and USB 2 <br> Wireless : bluetooth and airport extreme <br> RAM : 4 DDR slots (Ram modules have to be paired) <br> Others :Hypertransport motherboard <br> Enclosure : new silver enclosure <br> <br> The prices are expected to be the same as the current tower line.... which would make them very interesting, considering that those computers are 64 bits. <br> <br> Concerning the performances, our source claimed that those new PowerMacs are 3 times as fast as the current ones for most tasks....<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/31/03 02:12 PM

All I can say is, it's gonna be a VERY interesting WWDC... or not. <br><br><br>Visit Me At My .Mac Site
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/31/03 03:19 PM

I believe there were many changes to the processor when it was in development, first it was going to debut at 1.4GHz to 1.8GHz, then they had better than expected performance and said it would debut at 1.8-2.5GHz with a new sever announce with the 2.5GHZ processor to be released this summer with improved performance. It will be vary interesting indeed! <br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/31/03 03:27 PM

One correction, it was originally planed for 1.2-1.8GHz not 1.4-1.8GHz. Here is an article on the blade server with the PPC 970 CPU.<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 03/31/03 05:02 PM

Ahhh, that makes sense. As usual the sites I saw about "debuting" at 1.8 were only talking about the maximum speed...typical <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 08:56 AM

So, if those specs are right, you'd be using:<br><br>1) New chips, currently not-produced or used anywhere<br>2) A new motherboard to accomodate DDR and<br>3) A new motherboard interconnect - HT - which currently isn't used in any PC motherboards despite it being developed by AMD<br>4) the requirement to pair Ram modules, though other DDR solutions do not require it<br>5) PCI-X on the motherboard, which isn't currently found on Macs, and is generally reserved for workstations/servers<br><br>Let's compare that do going from the Smurf G3s to the first G4s.<br><br>1) Memory stayed largely the same<br>2) Motherboard connects (PCI) stayed the same<br>3) Didn't have to deal with dual-processors in the same transition<br>4) (not sure - Did the ATA interface jump from 66 to 100 in the saw-tooth jump? even so, the Yikes models still served as a bridge so some of the initial G4 towers didn't even have to make the AGP transition)<br><br>So, if all those things are true, I'd be mighty impressed. And if they were all true for a decent price, well then you could knock me over with a feather.<br><br>neye<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 09:06 AM

<br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 10:52 AM

Heh heh heh <br><br>Once it's shown to be true, I'll come back to the thread and see if I'm pushed out of my chair by the force of the improbabilities, aligned with the mechanism of the feather.<br><br>Until it actually happens one way or another though...<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 01:22 PM

Oh I agree--just couldn't resist the invitation <br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 06:32 PM

Ok, some of your points are not entirely correct:<br><br>1)The PPC 970 is in production now, and will be going into mass production; it will also be used in IBM Blade servers.<br>2,3,5)It is not unheard of for Apple to change their systems dramatically. PCI-X is (i think) backwards compatible with PCI and will give improved performance, so i would expect the switch to come soon (but not necessarily now).<br><br>Also look at the differences between the preformas (68XXX-16bit) and the PowerMacs (PPC-32bit), it was a completely different architecture. Also Mac OS 9 to X<br><br>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 06:55 PM

Clearly you and Greenme know more about hardware than I do, but why would it be so surprising if Apple had major motherboard changes? Of course, there are many rumors of new motherboards being manufactured already this spring, but I won't bother to list the rumor sites, because they're no more credible than the rumors about the chips. <br><br>Also, is there any real reason why it would be accurate to compare the transition from G3 to G4 to the transition from G4 to Power 970? Are the differences in each succession significantly similar? I have no idea.<br><br>I'm not saying that I believe these rumors, I'm just enjoying the anticipation that comes with it, but I'm confused about your reasons for why it seems so impossible?<br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/01/03 09:37 PM

<blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p>Also, is there any real reason why it would be accurate to compare the transition from G3 to G4 to the transition from G4 to Power 970? Are the differences in each succession significantly similar? I have no idea.<p><hr></blockquote><p>If you were to compare it to other transitions it would be best to look at them all. And if you do that you can look into what different execs have done in the past and start to analyze it, but all of that is beyond my knowledge so i just give up at that point. <br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/02/03 11:07 AM

<em>1)The PPC 970 is in production now, and will be going into mass production; it will also be used in IBM Blade servers.</em><br><br>That's true, but it's not in mass production *yet*. As you'll remember, the 450 and 500 Mhz G4s were *produced* before the G4 towers were announced. Production on a limited scale and production on an apple-quantity scale are two incredibly different things, as we all found out months later when you could finally buy one of those supposedly-produced 500 Mhz G4s.<br><br><em>2,3,5)It is not unheard of for Apple to change their systems dramatically.</em><br><br>That's true. All I'm saying is that it seems like they'd be making *lots* of changes at once, and that carries risks. The way to alleviate these risks is to delay the intro so that you have time to do a lot more testing and ensure mass-availability.<br><br>I'm not saying that it won't or can't happen, I just find it unlikely that Apple would push the schedule so aggressively in the face of so many variables.<br><br>neye<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/02/03 12:55 PM

That's all true, but IBM has much more advanced production centers and would have a much better chance of succeeding in producing a new chip without any major delays. So at this point it's one of those "let's hope" situations.<br><br>
Posted by: Anonymous

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/02/03 01:45 PM

definitely agree with this:<br><em>So at this point it's one of those "let's hope" situations.</em><br><br>Belive me, as an AMD partisan, I'm similarly hoping for a little IBM magic, as otherwise INTC is going to steamroll them real good. Hammer looks to be having a bunch of trouble, so AMD recently had to buy $42M worth of IBM know-how to help them get it out the door. <br><br>neye<br><br><P ID="edit"><FONT SIZE=-1><EM>Edited by neye_eve on 04/02/03 04:46 PM (server time).</EM></FONT></P>
Posted by: Trog

Re: Wow, if this one is even close... - 04/02/03 02:21 PM

C'mon, Big Blue!! <br><br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

More fuel for the fire - 04/02/03 07:44 PM

This is from a story at MC, about Berklee School of Music's new requirement that all incoming students have a Mac laptop:<br><br>[color:blue]If you are headed for Berklee this fall, hold off for now on buying a PowerBook G4 or an iBook, according to the admissions staff. The college said that it expects Apple to roll out new hardware before the Fall semester kicks off, and it doesn't want incoming freshmen stuck with obsolete hardware.</font color=blue><br><br>So what do the good folks at Berklee know?<br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: hayesk

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/03/03 10:32 AM

I'm guessing updated iBooks - it's their turn now, isn't it?<br><br>
Posted by: greenme1

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/03/03 09:44 PM

I don't think so, look at this<br><br><blockquote><font size=1>In reply to:</font><hr><p> The computer and software purchases qualify for inclusion in federal student loan and financing packages. The exact costs may vary based on the latest hardware and software options at the time of purchase. For the purpose of student federal financial aid, the amount of $2,500 has been included in the "Cost of Attendance." Further financial aid information will be provided at the time of aid application.<p><hr></blockquote><p>Unless I'm reading it wrong (i may very well be...) it says that they expect the computer & software to cost $2,500.<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/04/03 10:00 AM

Knowing how colleges do these things, I suspect that rolled into that sum is "support," which includes everything from the ethernet network on campus to the tech dude who is supposed to have everything up and running.<br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: greenme1

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/06/03 08:47 AM

Alright, then it must be then new 12" PB eh? <br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/06/03 09:13 AM

More grist for the speculation mill.<br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: hayesk

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/06/03 05:22 PM

I wouldn't trust any info from MacWhispers. It's run by the same guy who ran (or tried to) MacTable.com - which was basically other people's tables and ridiculously inflated prices. Basically, you paid him up front, and he would order the table from someone else and ship it to you (yes, you could go to the other company and order it yourself).<br><br>He's now trying the same thing with MacMice.com - which is basically another company's mouse at two to three times the price, repackaged to look like it was "specially developed for the Mac platform."<br><br>
Posted by: yoyo52

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/06/03 06:02 PM

Gee, what a great dodge that is! Now, can I put it to use . . . <br><br>Nah, I don't believe any of the rumor sites, but it's fun to see them all grinding away <br><br><br><br>Great wits are sure to madness near allied.--John Dryden, "Absalom and Achitophel"
Posted by: Trog

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/06/03 06:41 PM

Aaah, but Macwhispers isn't the only one describing this. Here's a similar but slightly different story at Architosh. I'm sure they aren't much more credible, I think I remember Gizmo saying that they were full of doo-doo a while back? An interesting read anyway, which is *mostly* what this anyway... that and an incentive to continue to save money so I can give it all to Apple again <br><br>Seems to me that lately the only really solid rumor site has been ThinkSecret, but if you notice, most of their "rumors" come out a lot later than other sites, sometimes only days before.<br><br>
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: More fuel for the fire - 04/07/03 06:43 AM

Architosh is run by MacNN - which I don't particularly care for, and is rarely accurate in the rumor department. As far as rumor sites, I find that think secret is usually the most accurate, while macrumors.com is also accurate, but usually gets their info from other sites - (they are more of a "summary" of other sites.)<br><br><br>Visit Me At My .Mac Site