External HD for Time Machine

Posted by: iMacsoontobe

External HD for Time Machine - 09/11/09 09:10 AM

Going to finally start using TM.
Been looking at Western Digital, but I'm open to any suggestions.

First question is do I really need to get their "Mac" version?
I think the answer is no.

Second question is can I use the smaller footprint "Passport" vs the "My Book"? The Passport doesn't need external power, but my concern is will it over heat being "on" all the time being hooked up to TM.

TIA

Joe

Cheers and Peace to all old friends.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/11/09 09:21 AM

Seagate has some interesting drives. I've had quality issues in the past with WD, so I don't consider them. I prefer buying the bare drive and then buying an enclosure for it.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/11/09 09:24 AM

Hi Michael,

Thanks for the reply, hope all is well.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/11/09 09:33 AM

I'm doing fine. Just need more hours at work, a full-time job, or another PT job.
Posted by: MacGizmo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/11/09 03:58 PM

I agree with MacBozo - I've always avoided WD drives. Seagate have a much longer proven track record.

You do NOT need the "Mac version" - you're just paying extra to have the drive pre-formatted. Buy the cheaper one and format it yourself with Disk Utility. You'll probably miss out on any pre-installed software, but that's usually Windows-only stuff anyway.

As far as the USB-powered vs. external power depends on your use. If you're leaving it plugged-in to a laptop all the time, you're going to drain the battery fast. If it's plugged-in to a desktop, it's not that big a deal, but then why not just get the powered one to begin with.

The external power drives are going to be more reliable in the long run. Especially when you consider what you're using it for - backing-up your valuable data.

If you're just using it for ocassional backups or transporting files, then the USB-powered drives are probably fine.
Posted by: carp

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/11/09 04:34 PM

Quote:
You do NOT need the "Mac version" - you're just paying extra to have the drive pre-formatted.


LOL

Reminds me of when I went into a CompUSA store way back when Macs had a floppy drive. I bought a pack of 10 floppies and was promptly told that the floppies will not work on a Mac at all <- to funny
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 08:26 AM

Thanks for the replies!

Here is what I ordered, couldn't pass up the deal.....but if anyone has any bad info or experience, still is welcome.....Thanks

Joe

http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/produ...48C0A00180148A0
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 08:51 AM

Wow! Sweet deal.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 09:05 AM

Yea, to good to pass up.

So when I get the drive I guess I need to use Disk Utility to format (what format? Journaled?) then I was thinking of partitioning.........My iMac is 320GB but I'm only using 99GB and really don't see it growing significantly any time soon.
Was thinking of 320GB 180GB split, using 320 for TM and just having the 180 available for ????? not sure what, will TM handle everything?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 11:18 AM

Crap... I went back to the link to buy one and between this morning and now it expired. mad


I would just dedicate the drive for TM.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 11:32 AM

thanks!
yeah I saw that also, weird how those things come and go...

this is one of my check daily sites

http://www.techbargains.com/dellcoupons.cfm
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 03:13 PM

Mine is Mac OS Extended (Journaled) which hasn't caused any problems.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/05/09 09:44 PM

Great find.

You'll want to not just format it but re-partition it, it probably comes as a Master Boot Record (PC) volume. Click on Partition in DU, under Volume Scheme choose 1 partition. Then click Options to make it either GUID Partition or Apple Partition, Mac OS Extended (Journaled). If you're not going to use it as a boot drive either will do. DU explains it pretty well. Just don't make it Master Boot Record, that's for PC formatting.

You can use the TM drive to store other files, they live happily on the same partition. TM will make a single backup folder of its own to store its stuff that won't interfere with any other folders or files on the drive. The only advantage to making two partitions is if you want to delete your TM backup folder and start it over it takes freakin' forever to empty the trash. If it's on its own partition you can just erase the partition. If you have 99G on the drive, you'll be surprised at how quick the TM drive can fill up all depending how you use your computer. Also I don't think anything on the other partition is backed up. I have some customers set up with one partition TM, and the other cloned with Super Duper to also have a bootable backup. I forget if TM doesn't back it up automatically or if I have told TM not to back up the partition. I'm out of town on a job, and on my laptop on 10.4.11 and not at home to check out Leopard at command central.

BTW the new version of Super Duper won't touch the TM backup folder I believe. Don't know how CCC (Carbon Copy Cloner) operates in that respect.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/06/09 11:30 AM

Thanks Reboot!
Hope all is well with you.

Drive should be here by Friday.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 08:14 AM

thanks Reboot!

actually Dell delayed the shipping and it is out for delivery today, finally.....

anyways after rereading your post, and doing a little sniffing around a few questions....

1. Is it beneficial to making the external (bootable) I take it that means just installing Snow Leopard on it?

2. I assume if I would do that I would need 2 partitions and I would use the GUID format, which from looking around because I have an Intel Mac, I probably should use that format either way.

So I would have a 2 partitions one for TM, and another with Snow Leopard, now I would assume the Snow Leopard Partition can be very small?

I guess the big question is what are the benefits?

If my iMac HD fails, would I boot up from the Snow Leopard partition and then be able to "get" my files back, by accessing the iMac's HD or the other partition of my external that has TM on it? I'm sorry if I sound confused, I guess it's cause I am (a little) smile
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 08:21 AM

1. Yes and no.

2. I don't think a partition is necessary since TM keeps its own folder.

Actually, if you have to do a HD replacement or wipe and reinstall, you can use the SL install disk to restore from your TM volume. Migration Assistant is TM aware, too.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 08:41 AM

Thanks Michael!

Is it starting to cool off down there yet?
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 08:45 AM

Later this evening. We'll get 4 or 5 days of breathable air before the humidity comes raging back.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 08:54 AM

I still have a drive here from my deceased G4 tower that I need to get an enclosure for. On that, I could install a bare SL, DW and TTPro for trouble shooting purposes.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 09:07 AM

so there is really no need to have a "bootable" external
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 09:23 AM

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe
so there is really no need to have a "bootable" external
That's subjective. I like it because I use it as a testing device, also I need to have an immediate bootable backup for my work, can't afford to take all day rebuilding if I need to get out a few invoices or access email or something.

Also I can take it with me to boot a machine that isn't booting that doesn't have a backup so I can recover their files. My needs are different, I have separate drives that are bootable. 10.3, 10.4, 10.5.

It's more of a convenience, depending on what you do with the computer. With a Time Machine backup all of your data is there, it just doesn't boot. If you can afford for it to be down for a few hours no bootable is needed. Of course we're talking the almost unheard of circumstance that a Mac won't boot. grin
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 09:25 AM

Booting from an external drive is faster than booting from a CD/DVD, though and redundancy is nice to have handy.*

*See: Microsoft/Danger/Sidekick laugh
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 09:30 AM

Originally Posted By: MacBozo
Booting from an external drive is faster than booting from a CD/DVD, though and redundancy is nice to have handy.
Yeah, it's easier/quicker running DiskWarrior off of a bootable partition. That's why for me externals come in handy.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/16/09 09:54 AM

Thanks Reboot!

Hope all is well with you, get any snow today?
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/17/09 03:40 AM

Time Machine up and running, thanks for all the tips!!!
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 10/17/09 04:06 AM

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe
Thanks Reboot!

Hope all is well with you, get any snow today?
All's well, thanks a bunch.

Not quite cold enough for snow yet, close though. I can wait, till like March. grin
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 09:14 AM

Ok I'm reviving this thread, cause my Seagate Drive seems to be bad.... Time Machine will not make a "backup" to it. frown Drive is sounding odd for lack of a better word. The strange thing is I seem to be able to "open" TM and go back in time, but I can't seem to make a new backup. The Seagate was 500GB and when I do a get info says only 45gb available.

Anyways, not sure if I can do anything about it, so I got this

http://www.staples.com/Western-Digital-Elements-2TB-External-Hard-Drive/product_884865

Was planning on formating, partitioning, using half for TM and then I was going to make my own "back up" of pics, videos, files on the other half.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 09:57 AM

Nice price.

I got one of these and I need to get another:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817153066

Never had a problem keeping a HD in there. And if the HD goes bad, just swap it out for another.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 11:01 AM

Ha! I got one of those, but branded by Newer Tech.

http://www.newertech.com/products/voyagers3.php

Actually, that's the one one that sports USB 3.0 only..

I got this one with a bunch of connections...

http://www.newertech.com/products/voyagerq.php
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 12:08 PM

Don't get a WD drive of any kind.

How old is the Seagate? It may still be under warranty. You can go to the Seagate support site and see if you can generate an RMA for it, it will ask for the serial number.

Have you tried creating the Partition over in Disk Utility to see if it just may be directory damage which an erase or partitioning would fix. Make sure you partition it HFS+, not MBR.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 12:25 PM

I guess you missed this?

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe


Anyways, not sure if I can do anything about it, so I got this

http://www.staples.com/Western-Digital-Elements-2TB-External-Hard-Drive/product_884865



Sounds like he already purchased it.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 01:05 PM

Last back up on TM was July 10th... I shut down seagate and restarted and I am trying to back up now via TM..It says "preparing 13,780 items" and that keeps increasing. The seagate is sounding strange???


Reboot why so against WD?
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 01:25 PM

They have a horrible failure rate...
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 01:30 PM

So it isn't a coke pepsi thing?

That is what I figured.
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 02:05 PM

Har har.
Just trying to give you an honest answer to a obvious question.
It's been pretty well known for quite a while their drives just don't cut it for reliability.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 02:21 PM

Well i looked on Amazon user reviews and it seems a mixed bag with Seagate and WD.

Believe me, I have no preference, so not trying to debate, but I have heard techies on both sides of the fence. Is there some "study" or "article" or is it just personal experience your speaking from?
Once again, not looking for an argument at all!!
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 02:51 PM

My opinion is that Seagate offers 5 years protection on a lot more of their products.
You don't offer 5 year protection if you don't feel your drives won't last that long.>>WD
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 04:00 PM

Just my experience over the last 17 years or so. I replace WD and Maxtor way more often than Seagate. You're going to be using it for a backup though so it won't be running all of the time so you should be fine.

As far as the TM backup not working I've seen your symptom from healthy drives, TM is still a work in progress. It takes a dump sometimes for no apparent reason. I've seen it want to start the whole backup over for no reason. My guess is directory corruption caused by it being cut off in the middle of a backup, sleep, shutdown etc.

When it does anything stupid I just wipe the backup and start over.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 04:06 PM

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe
Well i looked on Amazon user reviews and it seems a mixed bag with Seagate and WD.

Believe me, I have no preference, so not trying to debate, but I have heard techies on both sides of the fence. Is there some "study" or "article" or is it just personal experience your speaking from?
Once again, not looking for an argument at all!!

It's personal experience for me. I'll buy a Seagate first.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 04:16 PM

still running preparing 44,000 items!!!
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/21/11 04:31 PM

Reboot,

I'm counting on ya buddy, I Erased the Seagate, and gonna TM it from scratch.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/22/11 04:16 AM

All is working, first backup took some time, but everything is smooooooth sailing. Thanks Reboot!!

Now what to do with that WD 2TB that is coming in today?

The total cost was $82.37 I got the 2TB Western Digital HD and 8GB PNY USB flash drive. The price was low due to coupons.
Posted by: John Rougeux

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/22/11 04:27 AM

Put it on craigslist or eBay.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/22/11 04:53 AM

Well I can return it....or thinking of using it as another backup.

I currently have a 200GB HD with old pics and stuff, was thinking about putting all those, plus whats on my current iMac on this HD. Then when I get another iMac, probably 6 months or so, I can just have the option of accessing all that via this HD.
Posted by: MacBozo

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 07/22/11 05:25 AM

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe
Well I can return it....or thinking of using it as another backup.

I currently have a 200GB HD with old pics and stuff, was thinking about putting all those, plus whats on my current iMac on this HD. Then when I get another iMac, probably 6 months or so, I can just have the option of accessing all that via this HD.
That sounds like a good plan to me.

BTW: I still have 2 120Gig Seagate IDE drives that are just whirring along that I pulled from my G4.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/28/11 06:53 AM

Greetings!!

Ok after much debate, I bought this,

http://www.staples.com/Seagate-FreeAgent...cmArea=CIRCULAR

since it seemed Seagate was the better choice.

Soooooo now what to do.

Currently have a 500GB Seagate setup with TM. I have discovered if TM doesn't run for a few days, it takes a total crap!! It happened when I shut down for a week on vacation. I was considering leaving that set up in tact. I also have an old 200GB FW HD with some old stuff on it. Was going to put the old stuff on the new Seagate, with Apple killing FW going forward. Also archiving "stuff" pics, docs, ect from my current iMac on to the new Seagate and then when I get a new mac, I can just move over what I want and keep using the Seagate as archive disk. I think this would work better than trying to do a TM to my new iMac when I get it, because I'm just gonna snow snow leopard on the current machine.

One other question, does the old version of iMovie, the one with the chapter marks, before the "big" change, run on Lion?
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/28/11 10:15 AM

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe
I have discovered if TM doesn't run for a few days, it takes a total crap!! It happened when I shut down for a week on vacation.
What consistency is the crap? smirk It shouldn't do that, what happens exactly, taking a crap is a little vague. grin

Quote:
I also have an old 200GB FW HD with some old stuff on it. Was going to put the old stuff on the new Seagate, with Apple killing FW going forward.
Firewire isn't going away, in the near future anyway. Don't erase the stuff from the 200G, if you only have it on the Seagate it's not a backup if it's only in one location.
Quote:
Also archiving "stuff" pics, docs, ect from my current iMac on to the new Seagate and then when I get a new mac, I can just move over what I want and keep using the Seagate as archive disk.
Same thing, if it's only on the Seagate it's not a backup. Any disk can go bad.
Quote:
I think this would work better than trying to do a TM to my new iMac when I get it, because I'm just gonna snow snow leopard on the current machine.
Not sure I follow you.
Quote:
One other question, does the old version of iMovie, the one with the chapter marks, before the "big" change, run on Lion?
Which version do you mean, 05, 06 HD etc?
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/28/11 11:09 AM

1. It just won't complete the backup, goes forever, then got a error message, but didn't write it down. After being through it before, see prior entries in this post, I just did the scrap it and start over, as you suggested before.

2.I agree, I can keep the old FW drive around, but, new Mac's will not have FW ports.

3. I agree, so what "process" for getting a new machine. Say I clear the old iMac, move some of the stuff from the new Seagate to the new iMac, and then continue to keep all that on the Seagate and put more stuff as time goes by. While all the while using TM with the new iMac, but just not "relying" on it. So I would have the "current stuff" and some old stuff on the new iMac and TM. but also have it all backed up on the new Seagate. I realize the still loss potential of the old stuff that is only on the new Seagate, that never got moved over to the new iMac. Gosh, I hope that isn't confusing???

4. Don't want to do a TM machine restore to the new iMac, not even sure it would work with snow leopard TM back up to a new Lion iMac. BUt I may rethink this, as I will lose all my mail and other passwords.

5. iMovie HD 6.04
Posted by: NucleusG4

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/28/11 11:29 AM

https://discussions.apple.com/message/15890572#15890572
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/28/11 11:36 AM

Originally Posted By: iMacsoontobe
Don't want to do a TM machine restore to the new iMac, not even sure it would work with snow leopard TM back up to a new Lion iMac.
It should work, that's one of the purposes of it.
Quote:
iMovie HD 6.04
Yes it will work, but you can't use the installer.

1. Copy iMovie HD folder from /Applications folder on the old system disk to /Applications folder on the Lion system disk

2. Similarly, copy 'iMovie' folder from /Library/Application Support folder

Got that from here.

The new Macs will at least have Thunderbolt, which can take an adapter to go to firewire. I haven't heard anything for sure if the new Macs will lack FW though, but I have't heard it all either. grin The only one lacking FW is the MacBook Air.
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/30/11 07:28 AM

Got the new Seagate.

Should I partition it? Not sure of the benefits.

Should I make a bootable drive if I do partition it.

I would have to make the bootable by using my old iMac since current one doesn't have a superdrive ( not sure if you remember that).
Posted by: iMacsoontobe

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/30/11 10:19 AM

One more Box states Share betweeen Mac and PC without Reformatting?

I take it that doesn't mean I don't have to "format" the disk before I use it?

I assume I still do.
Posted by: Jim_

Re: External HD for Time Machine - 09/30/11 10:34 AM

That means it's formatted FAT so both Mac and PC can use it.

You'll want to not just Erase but go to Partition, Volume Scheme, HFS+, then the Options button to make it GUID.

I'll have to get back with you on the boot partition thing, got to eat lunch and run out, duty calls. Paying customers and all. grin